/left/ General - We're Only Ironically Tankies Edition

Greetings Comrades

This thread is for the discussion of any and all left-wing political ideology, including, but not limited to, Marxism/Socialism/Communism/Anarchism/Syndicalism/etc.

>Socialism is an economic and social system defined by social ownership of the means of production. (Workers democratically own and operate the places in which they work, as opposed to private power aka capitalism)

>The means of production are non-human inputs the create economic value, such as factories, workplaces, industrial machinery, etc. Socialists refer to the means of production as capital, or private property. Private property in the socialist context shouldn't be confused with personal property, such as your home, car, computer, and other possessions.

>In a capitalist society the means of production are owned and controlled privately, by those that can afford them (the capitalist aka those with capital). Production is carried out to benefit the capitalist (production for profit). Workers are paid a wage, and receive that amount regardless of how much value they produce.

>Communism is the highest developed stage of socialism wherein there is no state, no money, no class system. The means of production are owned by all and provide for everyone's needs.

Resources:

ABC's of Socialism: s3.jacobinmag.com/issues/jacobin-abcs.pdf

Introduction to Marxism by Professor Richard D. Wolff: youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4

Selections of Left-wing Literature:
Anarchist:
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

Libertarian:
Mikhail Bakunin - God and the State (short read)
Thomas Paine - Agrarian Justice
Noam Chomsky - Notes on Anarchism
Anton Pannekoek - Worker's Councils

Marxist-Leninist:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

Other urls found in this thread:

thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html
youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

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Beware the Greek shitposter

>Introduction to Marxism by Professor Richard D. Wolff

>Wolff
>Marxist

fuck off commies, back to fullchin, or plebbit, or wherever you came from

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I came from Sup Forums on Sup Forums dot com

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Why does you commies faggots think everyone here is red-pilled?

Can Marxism make my at khajiit waifu real??

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but real gonmuism hasn't benn treid :---DDDD

Capitalism is only good as an inbetween stage of feudalism and communism

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Upload your folder you fag

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qt, not at

Question: Is a Trump presidency good or bad for revolutionary leftists like us?

you chose to leave before the trump era, now you don't get to come back, you kike lovers

no

Saged and hidden. Everybody here already is aware of the communist jew.

You guys are persistant, I'll give you that.
But in all honesty, most of the threads I've been in, you guys seem to lose the argument over and over. Then you make another thread like nothing happened.
If anything, these threads are opening my eyes to the reason people call commies stupid.

good if it encourages you to end yourself

I'd say good, it shows that people are upset with the status quo

I'll humor this.

I am an inventor, the things I designed already save hundreds of lives a year and some of the stuff I'm working on could bump that number up to thousands.

Under a communist system I would never have been able to profit off of creating these things. And I can tell you, knowing myself, that I would have lacked the motivation to pursue them. It is a long and arduous process. How is your system reducing my incentive to contribute to humanity a good thing?

I'm taking it you have a function communist society where you've collected and correlated data to support that claim?
Oh that's right.

kill yourself

It's better than the Clintonites gaining power again; at least he'll be against "free market" NAFTA/TPP cuckery.

Also there's this
thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html

>I'd say good, it shows that people are upset with the status quo

Yes, but after 4 or 8 years and Trump continues the capitalist system in the USA, will the people finally revolt? If so, will the police state be powerful enough to stop it?

I've yet to see us lose an argument, can you give an example?

>expecting commies to win an argument

top kek m8.
Don't forget to sage, they'll leave eventually

> muh real communism has never been tried

>at least he'll be against "free market" NAFTA/TPP cuckery.

Lol he's not, he just said that like Obama did the get elected.

>I am an inventor
yeah ok kid
go back to masturbating to anime in your moms basement

>losing arguments over and over

>not being unable to respond to Sup Forumsyps' hot takes on communism through the hentai and minions spam

A fucking leaf

>Your ideology killed 20 million it's the worst!!111!!!
>My ideology killed 120 million but it wasn't real communism honest!!1!1!

Well fuck this shit. Gay thread, gay ass ideology. Sage in all fields
SAGE
A
G
E

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Go read the other threads
Your go to responses are
>not true socialism
>not an argument
It's like you refuse to accept any new information, instead doubling down on you own broken ideas.
I personally can't wrap my head around that level of stupidity.
It's like your the most closed-minded people I've had the displeasure of conversing with.

Trump hasn't even been elected yet and he's already gone back on all his promises, and almost started WWIII with China. There's no way he's not gonna fuck up during his presidency. People will revolt once they see the mistake they made, and the flaws in the current system

>sitting on chair made by capitalism
>wearing clothes made by capitalism
>use phone made by capitalsim
>using mouse made by capitalism
>using keyboard made by capitalism
>looking at computer made by capitalism
>browse internet full of internet product ads made by capitalism

>argue for communism

>you do some labour
>this produces goods or services; therefore your labour has value
>you are paid a wage
>the value of this wage is lower than that of your labour
>someone else pockets the difference; they make a profit despite doing no labour

Has anyone successfully refuted this, the greentext edition of Marx's basic critique?

not an argument

>Red ID
>3iVISovn
>Sov

KEK IS ON OUR SIDE NOW, Sup Forums

Why are all the canadian stereotypes about shitposters true?

You live and prosper in a system that you want to tear down, Im only exposing your own retardation.

Your incentive should be to contribute to your fellow man, which I think is in the minds of a lot of people when they invent devices that could save lives.

Remember, it's more profitable for a doctor to keep their patients sick rather than heal them, so they're obviously not acting on profit margin alone

Were being raided by Reddit. The right wing migrated here after being purged, the Reddit commies got bored and followed them.

Just ignore this shit.

the only thing gommunism can bring is poverty if that's your thing

UGH I can't believe this peasant doesn't like feudalism! Doesn't he KNOW he's working on land granted by the LORD?

>Trump hasn't even been elected
>can't assume he will deliver his promises
>but you can assume that he will start WWIII with china

wew lad, I think it's time to go back to plebbit

My Canadian comrades ITT. What are the chances of NDP winning the next election?

Why should a worker be paid for the full price of the product they help produce?

Good because finally we can have RWDS to clean up the cockroaches like you "comrade"

Hai guise I heard dis is the thrad were we LARP liek gommie

Gif Breadline nao pls

How do socialist societies cajole workers into producing enough excess value that society can grow more people?

Sup Forums has been debating communsim since it's the boards inception.
You guys always get beat.
Then pic related happens.
Then a new wave of retards shows up to start it all over again.
It's the circle of life I suppose.

same chances of you not being a faggot, too bad

Assuming you're not full of shit: you would be reimbursed in direct proportion to how much you innovated, as the Commie system valued new tech (literally, means of production) above pretty much all else and loved sponsoring scientists and engineers (See: Tsiolovsky). Contrast this to the current Capitalist system, where you innovate for a flat rate and a megacorp like Google profits heavily off you whilst pocketing the patents.

YOU OWN COMPUTER, YOU MUST BE BOURGEOISIE SCUM

1 MILLION YEARS GULAG FOR BOURGEOISIE SCUM

leftshits btfo

>thinking chairs, clothes, and computers can't exist under communism
wow, really made me think

bump for triggering Sup Forumss resident autists lately, please raid harder

well he has a point food doesn't exist very well under gobbunism ex dee

Y E S
E
S

The value of the wage is not determined by the goods created, rather the demand for the actual job.

If brain surgery was the easiest job in the world its wage value would be 0.everyone could do it, so it has no value.

Marx simply conflated the idea of stock value with job value to promote this nonsense.

You mean these arguments: "COMMUNISMS BEEN TRIED, KILL YOURSELVES FAGGOTS"

Well guess what, that statement is simply not true. What don't you understand about that? You try to argue against us but you haven't read even a paragraph of socialist/communist theory

Warning.
This thread is for faggots who enjoy failed ideologies.

I've been on Sup Forums since before that post, and on Sup Forums long before that. Sorry if your mind was too weak to resist obviously emotions-based Nazi proaganda shitposting.

what would be real communism then ?

Antifa please go.

underrated

We know all about your plebbit raid plans.

You can't trick us. Enjoy the red pills we will force down your throats.

You seemed triggered, capitalist.

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Value is a subjective concept.
Marx mistakenly believes there is an objective value of labor.
Everything that comes after that misunderstanding is subject to expressing that misunderstanding.
The ideology is flawed in it's conception.

I already want to contribute to my fellow man, but I also want to live in a baller ass mansion and drink champagne. I would rather live in a system where I can do both instead of picking one.

This is more along what I was looking for. However I will say that the "innovate for a flat rate and a megacorp like Google profits" is not how things work for independent inventors. I patent my shit, license it, and make really good money while the megacorp also does. The tide lifts all ships.

If poverty means getting to cuddle a dog khajiit, then for sure, but no khajiit waifus for me means rope for the pinko fucking shits
>arguments
>implying "b-but it hasn't really been tried yet, that wasn't REAL communism" is an argument

Neck yourself pinko cuck before we do it for you

>implying you would be living the same quality life with the same quality items you use now under communist rule.

I guess what they say about commies is correct, you're all a bunch of masochist cucks.

What can I say, I love the chaos desu. The CTR hysteria was hillarous when it peaked.

It'll be just like when Jesus comes back and there will be heaven on earth for all the workers and the bosses will be sent to gulag.

Can't even make this shit up.

Sage goes in option field.

the computer you're using is a product of capitalism
your lifestyle is only being sustained under capitalism
why support communism

a stateless, classless, moneyless society

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Not as triggered as you are comrade

>People will revolt once they see the mistake they made, and the flaws in the current system

We should start stocking up on guns and ammo before Trump enacts martial law and bans guns.

*soft not dog

>Sorry if your mind was too weak to resist obviously emotions-based Nazi proaganda shitposting.
How is that any different from:
>Sorry if your mind was too weak to resist obviously emotions-based communist proaganda shitposting.
Oh that's right. It's cool when you buy into the right propaganda.

>Under a communist system I would never have been able to profit off of creating these things.
Wrong, under communism you would actually get full profit from your ideas instead of almost all money going to the bourgies while you get a flat wage.
Your inventions would be also be used for the good of the people instead of being used to be able to be able to extract more value from less people, automation wouldn't be a good thing instead of this nightmare scenario where millions of people will be out of a job.
>And I can tell you, knowing myself, that I would have lacked the motivation to pursue them.
This video should be relevant.
youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

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>Says Mao and Stalin were revolutionary
>Claims that 20th century Communism wasn't communism.
At least try putting a little effort in your memes.

>The value of the wage is not determined by the goods created, rather the demand for the actual job.
In that case someone who assembles iPhones would be paid more than someone who assembles Nokias, which obviously isn't true.

>If brain surgery was the easiest job in the world its wage value would be 0.everyone could do it, so it has no value
Not being the easiest job in the world = taking a lot of labour. To be a brain surgeon you have to work hard in university, than take additional training, and the surgery itself is extremely difficult. "Labour" doesn't necessarily have to mean manual, as things like programming are labour too.

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sounds like crab mentality

>Attractive white hetero woman

This triggers the leftist

She must be a muslim lesbo bull dyke feminist instead, you intolerance junkie

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gommunism pls

The whole point of socialism/marxism is that it ISN'T feelings-based. Look up materialism.

>You live and prosper in a system that you want to tear down
>tfw this is literally a cornerstone of Marxist revolutionary theory.

There is a reason Marx assumed the revolution would burst forth from western Europe due to its massive industrial backbone. Most revolutionary theory states that capitalism is a revolutionary force that transforms society to the state where communist society can come about after a proletarian uprising.

People here seem to like Trudeau, unless he fucks up in a major way I think the liberals are staying in

You living in a baller ass mansion means someone else lives in a tent under a bridge. Are you okay with that?

A stateless society where the means of production are owned by the workers

This. the workers must be armed