/Leftist General

Welcome to Marxism-Leninism general.

This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism. Broader 'Marxist' discussion is also encouraged, but not general 'leftist' ideologies.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
>To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
It is recommended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.
Resources:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=pf6s-WVMlTU
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong#Great_Leap_Forward
twitter.com/AnonBabble

kys

kill yourself

>commies

Off yourselves

hey guise were are all the cuban, nork, laos, vietnamese and chinese flags in these threads, cause i never see any?

i wanna hear from some real communists but it doesn't seem possible for some reason

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You first capitalcucks

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i think vietnam and maybe laos are just as communist as modern china

>tfw to intelligent two listen too leftist drivel

Eternal reminder

>where are flags from countries that don't speak English
Actually there was a Chinabro a few back

Sorry, we have another leftist thread already
my bad

so, cuba and north korea are the only two real communist countries left, or am i missing some?

i keep thinking if communism is so great, that more countries would be doing it, but i can never find anyone from an actual communist country to ask about it. all i ever see are people from first world western countries talking about how great communism is, even though they don't happen to live in a country that actually practices it. it's very disappointing.

Just let that one die

>a load of seemly random historical events being attributed to a single particular economic system because reasons

could say the same thing about deaths under communist countries

>hand rubbing intensifies

maybe it's a language barrier thing then, like said? hardly anyone speaks spanish, korean, or hebrew these days i guess

alright, this argument gets railed on, but here i go
communism is a moneyless stateless society
this has never been achieved
Socialism is the phase after capitalism where the working class gets more democratization in the workplace and a greater share of wealth.
North Korea is not socialist.
Cuba's been a puppet of one force or another like forever
the best example of countries working toward socialism are the Nordic social democratic states

Except no. Those WERE done for the glory of communism (that wasn't real communism), for example the red guard, or came about as a direct result of communist policy, for example millions starving to death because planned economies suck.

youtube.com/watch?v=pf6s-WVMlTU

>tfw in a full communist society you'd be forced to share and give up your belongings to devote yourself to the cause

Disgusting. Us NEET will be taking our business elsewhere. Who here /NEET/ and voted Trump? At least in our beautiful constitutional republic we get a good dose of nationalism every 8 years to save our economy so borderline socialists can fuck it up with welfare for another 8 then the cycle repeats.

>so, cuba and north korea are the only two real communist countries left, or am i missing some?

Cuba is no longer communist in any meaningful sense. NK wasn't articularly communist either, and their contemporary predominant ideology is the Fascism a la 30's Nippon

>tfw none of the chronic propaganda pushers have flags from countries that were ever subjected to Marxism-Lenninism

So you're saying socialism only works with a small, culturally homogenous group

and that true capitalism has never been tried

The first argument is valid, but the second is a falsehood. it shows the inherent flaws of capitalism, when a form of governance inherently falls prey to authoritarian influences over and over again.

the democratic countries you list as successful examples of socialism are hardly marxist.

What's your position on instrumentality?

i meant to say the flaws of communism...

Be a good commie and kyu.

>Not_real_communism.jpg

Can we ban this fucking garbo threads already? You're kidding yourself if you think this will achieve anything but get a bunch of shitposts and stale memes
Also, if you're gonna reply to this fucking threads at least sage them so you don't keep bumping them

Stalinism is real Communism.

No they are not marxist. But they are evidence of the trend towards socialism, which marx predicted
I don't think he was right about everything, but many of his critiques of capitalism have come true

Thanks for the bump friend

>wud fug

>I don't know what I'm talking about, but corporate bullshit and corruption within our governments from groups with big money is not REAL capitalism. Without the Jews, there would be NO problem!

>but many of his critiques of capitalism have come true
which ones particularly?

because it seems to me the thesis or central point is that capitalism will destroy the livelihood of man. but what we have seen with 100 years of mixed-economy capitalism is median income rise, life expectancies rise, sanitation improves, etc.

wealth inequality is treated as a boogeyman with no consideration for the general greater quality of life enjoyed from that concentration of wealth.

i think the fundamental issue is, people mistake wealth inequality for the poor getting poorer, when in fact the pie gets larger all the time, so even a smaller piece of that larger pie is more than you had when there were less people at the table.

That it's a bad oppressive system because somebody made up few words to describe cultural phenomenons
and assigned them a negative labels that started to malfunction after exposure to marxism. : ^)

Go to Venezuela

Capitalism being in a constant boom and bust cycle of crisis
Alienation of the worker
increasing wealth gap

he was wrong about the ability of capitalists to appease the working force and use politics to divide the working class and bust unions
and he couldn't anticipate the explosion of technology which drastically undervalued the labor force

why are you such a fan?

i suppose that's the thing that mystifies me the most. if you're a burger, what's so wrong with your situation, famalam.

i love burgerland.

But who is going to pay for it?

I see in the future our economy is threatened, as the chinese and indian markets become fully developed
America will no longer be a first-world country eventually
for an American socialist perspective, check out Eugene Debs

Is that an Evangelion thing?

Kill yourself

nobody cares about your gay, discredited meme-ideology. kys

Yes, it's an Evangelion thing.

How long are you gonna force this maymay?

Modern communists are LARPing faggots.

>Pic very much related.

The most notorious example of forced collectivization is the land reform carried out by Soviets between 1928 and 1933. It was thought that collectivization would maximize the use and potential of the countryside for urban and industrial needs. Russian industry was just taking off, and enormous quantities of food would be required for the workers.

Masses of resisting landowners—many of them small-scale farmers who worked their own land—died at the hands of executioners. The state’s requisition of crops, livestock, and farmland was paid for by the farmers and by the lower class in general, some ten million of whom starved to death in five years.

Exactly the same atrocity took place in Communist China, between 1958 and 1961. During this time, private farming was outlawed as it had been in Stalin’s Russia, and about 33 million people starved to death in possibly the single most destructive famine in human history.

SAGE

>America will no longer be a first-world country eventually
Look, it's a given we won't be #1 forever. Our tremendous debt alone has clearly weakened our international position. It's created a precarious, too-big-to-fail situation for the global economy. As long as the dollar is the currency of the world, we will be running things. Our GDP is about to be outpaced by China I believe. India is absolutely fucked under this new guy. They're going to regress to the dark ages or worse.

I'll give you Mr. Debs a look, I can't promise it will be a long one.

Elaborate more on your problems with capitalism. Consider the comfort you live in. Consider the advantages you enjoy, and where they come from. What motivated their production?

Yep, farm collectivization was a terrible idea, and implemented poorly

I solely support "mere Marxism" as public or local ownership of the means of production, and abolition of social class
I forgot to edit the general copypasta

There is nothing going on in those threads.
Might as well ignore in the first place.

Just because capitalism produces a lot of bullshit pretty cheaply doesn't mean I'm enjoying the system and it's social consequences. I'd be fine with a lower standard of living if it meant the common man has more power relative to the ruling class

Not saying capitalism is TEH BIG EVIL, it was a great improvement over fuedalism, which was a great improvement over slavery

Just saying that socialist principles can lead to a better life for everyone, unless your name is Rothschild, in which case you might actually have to work for a living
I love burgerland too, here is one of the greatest americans ever, Gen Smedley Butler, explaining how the capitalists create profit for themselves at the detriment to everyone else

Don't worry, they'll all starve to death

>farm collectivization was a terrible idea

No it wasn't. It was the price you pay for developing 100 years of industrialisation into less than a decade. And it worked.

>literally every attempt at communism fails horribly

>"hurr one more time guys!"-t. autistic 19 year old

>they seriously think they're the first ones to try this

REVISIONIST GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEE!
Kulaks deserve everything that they got desu.

This. Leftcoms and anarkiddos go kill themselves.

>it's social consequences
You mean consequences of your own actions? Capitalism is an economical system not political system.

Sage

>And it worked.

>[collapses]

Political systems arise from the economic systems they are a part of.

>says the nazi

You can't divorce political relations from the economic mode of production, our social relations implicitly rely on the power disparities created by the system which distributes power, in this case capitalism.

And yes it's my actions, but also the collective actions of everyone else, which inherently have an impact on my community and planet, oftentimes in detrimental ways.

A board predominantly populated by fascists and libertarians calling anything discredited.

American Libertarianism is total nonsense. The recent it has so little academic support is not because of cultural Marxism, it's because it's a shitty ideology.

Beta fags posting the same retarded shit.

Yeah. And it doesn't change the fact that you can have oligarchy or some other form of government ruling it.

Use some human language. Private ownership is distributed by government is what I got from it.

>collective actions
So it's the problem with people not the system.

finally some tankies show up

Communism is gay

*autistic screeching*

What's up /left/?

>holocaust
>capitalism

Communism is for self entitled spoiled brats that think other people's money belongs to them. Get the fuck outta here and die a painful and humiliating death commie scum.

There is lots to say about that quote, if it is genuine.

First, that none of what he's describing is directly attributable to a fault of capitalism. The military-industrial complex resulted from the unholy alliance of defense contractors and government; the same branch of government that can declare war: Congress. Many of the most damning of these relationships in recent memory took place during the Iraq War, in the Bush administration. Unfortunately the investigative press lost interest in this sort of thing after Obama took office. But it was all anyone talked about a decade ago.

Eisenhower warned us about this thing; he coined the term. But this sort of "capitalism" is what's called a mixed economy - where the government exerts some degree of arbitrary control, anywhere from prices to quotas to lending of taxpayer money. these are called market distortions. they're coercive actions that have nothing to do with market forces. the flipside of this is you can lobby the government to distort the market IN YOUR FAVOR - which is what makes it popular to those who can afford to lobby extensively without actually doing so personally. ie the richest people, capitalist.

it has created a perversion of capitalism, which is not true capitalism. you say true marxism has not been realized. i tell you neither has laissez-faire capitalism. the poison was in the wound from the very first day, and it has only gotten more bizarre.

in a truly capitalist society, there would be separation of the economic and political spheres of life, for the same reasons we have separation of church and state.

just plotting the overthrow of the worldwide economic system and junk

(You)

just discussing radical economic theory and junk

>Nazi terror and concentration/extermination camps
hey, you have to list events that actually happened.

Sup Forums: were not cucks

/leftypol/: *autistic screeching*

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That's because you think politics = government, a very simplistic understanding of what it means to be a human interacting through a social system.

Let me put it another way, the way people consider their political stances is inherently predicated on their position in the social system, which is always tied to the way economic relations are set up because that is what determines their material conditions. Whenever you talk about what sort of economic system you want to have, you are inherently also talking about what political system you want because they both rely on the other to maintain themselves and create some semblance of order in which people can interact peacefully.

Politics is about power and so are economics, they are not two different systems. It's perfectly reasonable to talk about the social consequences of economic relations just like it is reasonable to talk about the material consequences of political relations.

>So it's the problem with people not the system.
The system is constructed and perpetuated by the people, so it is inherently a problem with them.
I'm not an idealist that thinks people can just naturally get along and work together nicely, but the system can be set up in a way which benefits more or less people, and I would prefer it if it benefited as many as possible. Contemporary capitalism does not achieve this

Bluecollar labourer checking in.

I have no illusions. Liberal does not equal left. Read a fucking book you middle class loser.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong#Great_Leap_Forward

wrong

FULLY
AUTOMATED
LUXURY
GAY
SPACE
C O M M U N I S M

>"Let's flood an image board that until previous to now had little to no communist talking heads on there, until we subvert the narrative and force them to our viewpoints, only to bitch at them if they tell us to fuck off!!! Yeah, that sounds like a good idea!!!!" *Proceeds to screech in a pure autistic rage*

Truly, you are the ultimate definition of genetic waste.

it's genuine, from "War is a Racket"
so your saying crony capitalism is the problem
I'm saying the system is set up as such that corruption of the financial kind is so endemic as to be unresolvable.

You dumb commie fucks realize that the USSR had to produce propaganda in Ukraine to try and convince parents from cannibalizing their own children because they killed all the competent farmers for not being loyal enough and everyone was starving to death. It is a retarded system that fails to take human nature into account and ends up slaughtering countless lives.

Hey, you guys started the fire, what with all the talk of "the working-class"... what did you expect to happen? Trump has been instrumental in waking up classcucks.

Hold on let me respond for them

>YEAH BUT UHHH THAT WASNT REAL COMMUNISM BRO THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN IN MY COMMUNIST UTOPIA

there have always been occasional far-lft threads on /pol, they are increasing due to the swing of the pendulum, and to the fact that some group of faggots are raiding
The real /pol leftists, like me, are just taking advantage of the attention

No one has made this argument. Do you like arguing to yourself?

>swing of the pendulum

Trump hasn't even taken office yet. Lol @ this. Sounds more like wishful thinking.

Why did you respond to me instead of the other guy? Where's your argument, lad?

OP should kill himself. He already wants to.

>Capitalism works.
>Economy crashes.

Except capitalism is the incumbent mode of production and that makes it much harder to change considering how the culture and social norm of capitalism is ingrained into society. So what you have is either capitalist interests outright subverting socialist attempts or their bourgeosie ideology corrupting these attempts so you have "communist" China, Vietnam, etc.

>"Does it require deep intuition to comprehend that man’s ideas, views, and conception, in one
word, man’s consciousness, changes with every change in the conditions of his material
existence, in his social relations and in his social life?"

This is a quote by Karl Marx that explains what I think Canada comrade is trying to say. The system itself shapes the people itself and their motives which is why we would like to change it.

Fascism = Capitalism during stages of decay

There are times in which a democratic system is no longer sufficient to maintain the economic relations which benefit the ruling capitalist class. Fascism breaks the revolutionary drive which would otherwise overthrow the capitalist class and people's concerns are diverted away from class consciousness and towards infighting (against gays, Jews, foreigners, etc). It also drives up the need for war production which massively benefits the class which owns the means of production. Overall fascism is just one huge bonus to the capitalist class, it is entirely within their self interest to resort to it when the working class gets too uppity.