Christianity and the Dark Ages

Redpill me on this. Prove me Christianity didn’t cause the Dark Ages, or prove me it did

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The dark ages are because all of fucking society collapsed. Rome fell. It was over. All of it. Imagine The USA fell and you're in New York City with no idea how to get the electricity and gas back on or how to reorganize into a coherent government and random bands of criminals roamed with nobody to stop them. When Rome fell, there were churches and monasteries very far away in Ireland and Gaul, that had tons of books and knowledge. In the same imagined situation, imagine if libraries and universities in Utah and Montana were untouched. The Catholic Church used what little power it had to hold onto society and play the long game of rebuilding it.

Society can disappear in an instant but it takes generations to build let alone rebuild

FPBP

I'm surprised to see an Americuck not spewing anti-christianity memes likes "It's thanks to Christianity that we had the dark ages" or "we'd be 1000x more advanced if it weren't for the scientific black hole of the dark ages" .

Weird times.

No serious historian considers the Dark Ages anything but a meme

Nice.

Btw, where does the myth that Christianity was largely responsible for the Dark Ages even originate from? Is it because the germanic tribes at the time were supposedly christian?

Christianity did cause the dark ages and the fall of rome, rome embracing christcuckery made its iq fall by at least 40. If rome had remained Ásatrú we would be colonizing mars right now

2 migrations caused the dark ages one from the north, the goths and one from the south the islamic countries, both at the same time destroyed Rome, most people here defend that the goth were civilized and keep part of the knowledge but they were literally barbarians and did the same thing as the muslims with north Africa and Spain take what they need and destroy the other things

Shut up with your dumb lies you retarded christcuck, the goths were the epitomy of civilization, that is until they converted to christcuckery

>Germanic tribes are smelly
>Romans are advanced and civilised

Germanic tribes kill Romans and take their territories and move in.

>Germanic are still smelly in Roman provinces with no advancements

Vestiges of Roman culture survives through the church which smelly Germanic adopt and become semi-civilised.

OP if you real do want to learn about western civ n the dark ages watch this
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-6irRrtObMM

Hint hint Islam plays apart in the dark ages

>where does the myth that Christianity was largely responsible for the Dark Ages even originate from?

Spot fucking on man.

Because they burned people whose discoveries didn't align with the ancient jewish myth book.

Fucking. This.

Christianity is the only reason any sort of documents from Roman times survived rather than just getting burned for heat by some illiterate peasant.

Rome died almost the same way every other great civilization does:

1. Economic collapse (embezzlement, mismanagement, overspending)

2. Societal collapse (government softened/wasn't strong enough to homogonize their land, leading to multiculturalism and insecure borders along with Cuckstantine suddenly forcing the illegal (at the time, socialist) Christianity into the mainstream)

3. Military collapse (military funds cut, nationalistic pride is weakened, and their wars in the north, east, and south outlasted their ability to conquer quickly, leading to barbarians flooding in like crazy)

Wrong
Christianity was among the myriad of factors which led to the collapse of Rome, although most of it stemmed from inflation and an overbloated empire, Christianity did cause the fall of Rome. If it were not for Christian monks, then we would've lost all traces of civilization, but then again without Christian monks there wouldn't have been so many book burnings either. The Dark Ages doesn't have a single causational factor which led to it being so horrible, but Christianity ended up prolonging the process. There was a lot of political infighting amongst the early church as well which lead to the dark ages being so long.

How about historical facts? People might take too much in assuming that Christianity caused all of it but it was still a major factor.

The argument over evolution in modern times

This. The Church was too dogmatic.

If you want to blame a religion for holding back it's people, blame the muslims. Sincerely.

>When Rome fell.
Yeah like when ?
There were an East Roman and a West Roman empire which later became the empire of Karl the Great.
Rome never fell, it vanished and funny enough it happenend after christianity.
The church then hoarded the old scriptures and destroyed or hid away what ever seemed heretic.
Christianity played a huge role n the Dark Age and it was rarely a good one.
From the crusades to the 30 years war, religion was always used to manipulate people into fighting each other so the church could profit from it.
People were kept stupid on purpose so they would not question anything the church told them.
I mean they went so far to sell fucking indulgence letters ...
As soon as the people began to question the teachings of the church, the renaissance began.

>muh ebil christians!
Rome fell because its model of slavery relied on constantly conquering new territories to replace slaves as they either died or were freed. Once such a fundamental pillar of Roman society began to collapse, the rest fell with it.

Christianity just happened to exist at the time, and was fairly widespread. Because of how relatively expansive it was, you can find stories of both the book saving monks and the political dissenting Christians existing at the same period of time. It is too often forgot how expansive Rome was at this time.

>As soon as the people began to question the teachings of the church, the renaissance began.
So for ~800 years humanity just sat around jacking off? You seem to underestimate the complexity of civilization and how monumental of an event it is to have such a cultural center collapse. Like said, the monks are to credit with preserving the old knowledge and starting the process of rebuilding. Yes what they rebuilt certainly will hamper progress at times, but it is revisionistic to imply it was a burden since the beginning.

Rome got fucked because of over-expansion, leading them to hire different groups of mercenaries and barbarians in order to secure their territories instead of building up their own army. One little siege starved the shiet out of those fuckers

>of both the book saving monks

You can find books on the book burning monks as well. Christianity prolonged the dark ages in western Europe indefinitely, its not even up for debate. The only reason they saved anything was due to them just existing as having replaced the intelligentsia of Roman Society. Had they been Roman Pagan scholars they would've done the exact same work, perhaps even better considering they would be more objective.

Again, they didn't cause the fall of Rome by themselves, but they prolonged the misery of those around them for Church politics,

I like you

I never said that christianity itself was evil.
It was used as a tool for greedy men to gain power.
I find it rather amusing that here on pol where everyone believes in the almighty jews planning and manipulating everything.
Some people doubt that christian leaders would try to keep the people as uneducated as possible to spread their own propaganda.
The bible is the foundation of every legitimation the church ever had, because it “is the word of god“.
Why do you think they tried to forbid heliocentrism ... because it contradicts the bible.
For the “fall“ of rome, you should look up the last years of the westroman empire to fully understand this regard.
From your previous statement I asume you didn't so discussing this in detail would be pointless.
>So for 800th years humanity just sat around jacking off
You as american claim to know that you are manipulated by the media and your government but you ain't doing shit about it.
Same thing for the people of this time, of course some of them knew that the church was using them.
But they either were too afraid to act or didn't care enough to take the risk.
When the catholics took their first harsh beating after the 30 years war their influence and power were weaker than ever before.
That was the monumental event that helped civilization to advance further away from religious dogmas.

Hot damn, FPBP

Why the pic France?

Christians were the ones that started destroying them in the first place you mong.

I'd take issue with leaving out all the pagan documents, works of art, statues, holy sites etc. destroyed by Christians before and after the fall of Rome. Christianity wasn't all bad but it wasn't all good either.

This. The term was coined by an Italian wanker who said everything between the collapse of the Roman empire and Italy's resurgence with the renaissance was a "dark" age.
It's purely a term of national pride.

Rome fell because the german army it was employing had not been paid and took over.

The Romans had to employ foreign soldiers because christians refused to serve in the Roman armty

>pagan documents

A lot of those tribes were already Christianized though.
Rome was already stagnant by the Crisis of the Third Century, ripe for a couple good bands of nomads to shake the whole thing down.

I'm talking about writings by the Greeks and Romans pre-Christianity.

the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) was Christian too and it didn't collapse

Don't forget that Roman agriculture basically just fucked the land so badly in areas moving out from Rome itself that they needed to take more and more just to be able to feed Rome. The city was a dead weight, and when the Germanic invasions began they weren't able to defend it. The capital moved from Rome to Milan to Ravenna because Lazio had become a massive debauched Roman death-trap.
>christians refused to serve in the Roman army
More like Romans in general refused to serve, they were so decadent by that point that they were mutilating themselves just to get out of service.

Exactly it didn't cause the dark ages but it didn't do much good, Theocracy never does

Hey OP, prove to me that you exist, according to my terms of existing.

...

The Church was the only institution to maintain anything of worth. Pagans were more concerned with fucking their sister and raiding their neighbors.

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the dark ages are a meme invented by salty meds

hmm sounds like modern day america

First you must eliminate this myth of a "dark ages". The term "dark ages" were first coined by Petrarch to refer to the lack of classical poetry in the period. Protestants took the term and transformed it to mean the era when the Catholic Church dominated. Finally, atheists co-opted the term to when religion reigned.

As you can see, the term "dark ages" has a very loose meaning.

Secondly, there were only two immediately causes to any sort of "dark ages" in europe. 1. is the fall of Rome and 2nd is the pillaging done by Vikings. That's it. Christianity deserves no credit for bringing any downfall, unless you could adding minor destability to an already unstable Rome to hasten it's fall, then yes.

semi related:

the one time in history that poland got off well

I read somewhere that the Pope was about to accept heliocentric way of thought but either Copernicus or Galileo made a book that smeared the Pope of the times name (dont really remember the whole story sorry.)

>no jews
>no plague

really activates my almonds

A big contribution is retards who completely misunderstand why Galileo was "censored"/put under house arrest.

It wasn't because he advocated heliocentrism over geocentrism. It was because he was being a total dick about it. Copernicus started the whole thing, and they didn't have a problem with him. Or any of the hundreds of other people researching it.

Their problem with Galileo is that he had barely added anything new onto Copernicus' previous work on the subject, and it was still a far cry from definitive proof. Yet he was still touting it around like it was a fact.

And to top it all off, when people started calling him on his bullshit, he started making the equivalent of shitty MSpaint strawman comics.

The Catholic Church is not Christianity. Christianity did not cause the dark ages. The End.