Only rich people fear communism

>managed to convince people that communism is bad when the average joe will benefit from it

>only human parasites that want to leech of the back of others hate communism

>It was when the old man died and his heirs took over. There were three of them, two sons and a daughter, and they brought a new plan to run the factory. They let us vote on it, too, and everybody—almost everybody—voted for it. We didn't know. We thought it was good. No, that's not true, either. We thought that we were supposed to think it was good. The plan was that everybody in the factory would work according to his ability, but would be paid according to his need.

>What's whose ability and which of whose needs comes first? When it's all one pot, you can't let any man decide what his own needs are, can you? If you did, he might claim that he needs a yacht—and if his feelings are all you have to go by, he might prove it, too. Why not? If it's not right for me to own a car until I've worked myself into a hospital ward, earning a car for every loafer and every naked savage on earth—why can't he demand a yacht from me, too, if I still have the ability not to have collapsed?

>It took us just one meeting to discover that we had become beggars—rotten, whining, sniveling beggars, all of us, because no man could claim his pay as his rightful earning, he had no rights and no earnings, his work didn't belong to him, it belonged to 'the family', and they owed him nothing in return, and the only claim he had on them was his 'need'—so he had to beg in public for relief from his needs, like any lousy moocher, listing all his troubles and miseries, down to his patched drawers and his wife's head colds, hoping that 'the family' would throw him the alms. He had to claim miseries, because it's miseries, not work, that had become the coin of the realm—so it turned into a contest between six thousand panhandlers, each claiming that his need was worse than his brother's. How else could it be done? Do you care to guess what happened, what sort of men kept quiet, feeling shame, and what sort got away with the jackpot?

>When all the decent pleasures are forbidden, there's always ways to get the rotten ones. You don't break into grocery stores after dark and you don't pick your fellow's pockets to buy classical symphonies or fishing tackle, but if it's to get stinking drunk and forget—you do.

>Any man who tried to play straight, had to refuse himself everything. He lost his taste for any pleasure, he hated to smoke a nickel's worth of tobacco or chew a stick of gum, worrying whether somebody had more need for that nickel. He felt ashamed of every mouthful of food he swallowed, wondering whose weary nights of overtime had paid for it, knowing that his food was not his by right, miserably wishing to be cheated rather than to cheat, to be a sucker, but not a blood-sucker. He wouldn't marry, he wouldn't help his folks back home, he wouldn't put an extra burden on 'the family.' Besides, if he still had some sort of sense of responsibility, he couldn't marry or bring children into the world, when he could plan nothing, promise nothing, count on nothing. But the shiftless and irresponsible had a field day of it. They bred babies, they got girls into trouble, they dragged in every worthless relative they had from all over the country, every unmarried pregnant sister, for an extra 'disability allowance,' they got more sicknesses than any doctor could disprove, they ruined their clothing, their furniture, their homes—what the hell, 'the family' was paying for it! They found more ways of getting in 'need' than the rest of us could ever imagine—they developed a special skill for it, which was the only ability they showed.

>God help us, ma'am! Do you see what we saw? We saw that we'd been given a law to live by, a moral law, they called it, which punished those who observed it—for observing it. The more you tried to live up to it, the more you suffered; the more you cheated it, the bigger reward you got.

>The guff gave us a chance to pass off as virtue something that we'd be ashamed to admit otherwise. There wasn't a man voting for it who didn't think that under a setup of this kind he'd muscle in on the profits of the men abler than himself. There wasn't a man rich and smart enough but that he didn't think that somebody was richer and smarter, and this plan would give him a share of his better's wealth and brain. But while he was thinking that he'd get unearned benefits from the men above, he forgot about the men below who'd get unearned benefits, too. He forgot about all his inferiors who'd rush to drain him just as he hoped to drain his superiors. The worker who liked the idea that his need entitled him to a limousine like his boss's, forgot that every bum and beggar on earth would come howling that their need entitled them to an icebox like his own. That was our real motive when we voted—that was the truth of it—but we didn't like to think it, so the less we liked it, the louder we yelled about our love for the common good.

>What good would our need do to a power plant when its generators stopped because of our defective engines? What good would it do to a man caught on an operating table when the electric light went out? What good would it do to the passengers of a plane when its motor failed in mid-air? And if they bought our product, not because of its merit, but because of our need, would that be the good, the right, the moral thing to do for the owner of that power plant, the surgeon in that hospital, the maker of that plane? Yet this was the moral law that the professors and leaders and thinkers had wanted to establish all over the earth. If this is what it did in a single small town where we all knew one another, do you care to think what it would do on a world scale?

>only people who have things that can be stolen fear theft

most rich people ARE communist you fucking idiot

Tell that to the 30 million dead Chinese from Mao's era.

>managed to convince people that communism is bad when the average joe will benefit from it
How are things in Venezuela?

in communism the rich and powerful are given leadership roles while the middle class is gutted by the lower class and their money is redistributed to the upper class

those things you bought was made by a fellow human. And that wage you earned was exploiting another human.

dont give me that bootstrap shit.

Thread.
Most super wealthy bankers are communists or socialists. Most super wealthy buisness men are socialist.

>the working class is being exploited, but is obviously too stupid to work out it for themselves
>I know, I, an enlightened middle class leech will free them by attempting to incite them to armed rebellion with the aim of placing myself and others like me in power
t. every trot ever.
Kill yourself.

>200+ million dead in China alone after Mao takes power
>IT'S THE RICH PEOPLES FAULT COMMUNISM IS SEEN AS BAD

Are you using your brain at all?

The only people that like the idea of communism are those who are just intelligent enough to make Tesco Meal Deal sandwiches everyday.
What the fuck is the point in me trying to invent something that would revolutionize the world if I'm still going to get the same money as the farmer.

only intellectuals have a say in communism. The rest of the people are supposedly taken care of... but they have no say.

Not only is the average Irish person better paid than the majority of people on the planet but I am better paid than the average Irish person and the average American.

I most certainly would not benefit from communism.

Why do socialists think they will gain anything from taking over the means of production?

Why are they stupid enough to think their personal material wealth will somehow increase when in reality it won't?

This is probably the biggest hole in socialist theories yet hardly anyone here talks about it.

>communist revolution
>take every last penny from capitalists
>divided up amongst everyone it works out to about $500 per person(yes that little)
>go to spend that money
>prices increase because no new consumer goods are produced in this situation
>workers are in the same exact situation they were the revolution but now the economy is completely destroyed

OR

>communist revolution
>every consumer good the capitalists own is split up and given to the workers
>it's such an extremely small amount of goods that not even 1% of workers will be able to get any of this

OR

>communist revolution
>money is abolished
>workers take over the means of production completely
>the same exact quantity of consumer goods that was being produced under capitalism are again produced
>the working class has to work JUST AS HARD and JUST AS LONG as they did under capitalism to produce the same amount of shit they were previously consuming
and this scenario is forgetting about the economic calculation problem and the fact economies like this never work.


Either way you go about this there's no getting "MUH SURPLUS VALUE" back. 99.5% of the consumer goods the working class was producing was already being consumed and owned by the working class, not the capitalists. The capitalists own only extremely small amounts of consumer goods(houses, cars boats, tvs, food, porn, medicine) compared to what the whole working class owns.

only goyim fear communism

you aren't a dirty goy are you Sup Forums?

>these situations you don't actually want to create are what you want to create lol

pretty good, fucking bastard

Our news said you were having food riots.

You forget the hardworking people who lose all incentive to work hard and push their education to get ahead in life. In communism getting paid a survivable wage to do physical labor and pushing your mind and body to its limits has no incentive over flipping burgers in an air conditioning building. I guess people living in communism who try and escape it isn't a clue how shitty it is. Fucking lazy kid.

Your news said, that Hillary`s chances were about 98.5%

beacuse you want to,

Why do artists make art?

Why do autists on Sup Forums create memes?

Same reason as always, humans are born creators. Just beacuse you've been spoon fed since birth by elite that the only reason to do somehting is money.

i am a poor man and i fear the idea of everyone being dragged down to my level

He never said, i google these words in russian and nothing

Good artists don't make art unless they're getting paid for it.

They also have a lot of bad things to say about conditions in Russia.

>only human parasites that want to leech of the back of others hate communism
But communism is mad for parasites

Yes i want to, but nobody will force me to do it.

made*

Tell that to Van Gogh

I'd argue its the shit artists that need to get paid for it.

that isn't true

your news are jew propaganda

If they agree to work for a wage it's not exploitation, dingus.

>only rich people fear communism
you do realize that the poorest americans are richer than 80% of the rest of the world, right?

rich is relative. all americans are rich.

Nice change of pace leftypol, try again

Communism can only work when there is enough pie that everyone is able to eat themselves to death of they so choose. Capitalism is the best system we have to increase the amount of pie, and it won't be much longer until there is so much fucking pie I am going to be able do die in an avalanche on a man made pie mountain. Capitalism leads into socialism, but it doesn't work if there's not enough pie, you get pie anxiety, pie lines, black pie economy, just fucking wait a bit longer. The post-fiat socialist pie-topia isn't far off now.

Fuck off, paki.

So there was no rioting and lack of food? Or was there just rioting. I am interested.

what?

>an actual brainwashed pro socialism Venezuelan

how is this even possible?

how can you be this stupid?

Why do socialists think they will gain anything from taking over the means of production?

Why are they stupid enough to think their personal material wealth will somehow increase when in reality it won't?

This is probably the biggest hole in socialist theories yet hardly anyone here talks about it.

>communist revolution
>take every last penny from capitalists
>divided up amongst everyone it works out to about $500 per person(yes that little)
>go to spend that money
>prices increase because no new consumer goods are produced in this situation
>workers are in the same exact situation they were the revolution but now the economy is completely destroyed

OR

>communist revolution
>every consumer good the capitalists own is split up and given to the workers
>it's such an extremely small amount of goods that not even 1% of workers will be able to get any of this

OR

>communist revolution
>money is abolished
>workers take over the means of production completely
>the same exact quantity of consumer goods that was being produced under capitalism are again produced
>the working class has to work JUST AS HARD and JUST AS LONG as they did under capitalism to produce the same amount of shit they were previously consuming
and this scenario is forgetting about the economic calculation problem and the fact economies like this never work.


Either way you go about this there's no getting "MUH SURPLUS VALUE" back. 99.5% of the consumer goods the working class was producing was already being consumed and owned by the working class, not the capitalists. The capitalists own only extremely small amounts of consumer goods(houses, cars boats, tvs, food, porn, medicine) compared to what the whole working class owns. .

I'm in favor for a Social Democracy.

Why do you want to be poor?

Why don't you want low prices and high wages?

Reminder: Trump voters are retards

Because they want lower taxes on the middle class?

Are you a retard?

>I'm a hideous weak beta bitch that can't survive without other people propping me up like a fucking child

Kill yourself ASAP

Why is Trump cutting taxes for millionaires and billionaires?

Communism = nothing to work to in life.

For the most part people who are rich work hard to get in the place they're in.

They fear communism because if it was to ever happen their wealth would be taken away.

>managed to convince people that communism is bad when the average joe will benefit from it

There is literally no reason to support communism unless you are just jealous of people making more then you.

Honestly i think its fun to work hard play hard

I doubt you could elect your local authorities under communism. And you would be taxed to fucking death. You'd have hundreds of thousands of police officers and secret agents, who could arbitrarily check what you've got in your rucksack or pockets

Why do socialists believe that money == consumer goods?

Are they actually this retarded?

Do they think there is a massive stockpile of goods in society that the rich are somehow hoarding?

The working class already consumes 99% of what it produces.

There's virtually no economic benefit to socialism at all.

Are you blind?

I'm already poor along with a lot of other people.

Socialist policy will make sure poor people have a lower barrier to entry out of welfare.

Because it boosts economic growth?
So firms will have more capital to invest with and boost economic output?

He's also cutting taxes on the poor and middle class.

Even though all communist revolutions include genocide within their roster?

>I'm already poor along with a lot of other people.
Then why wouldn't you want a free market where wages are extremely high and prices lower all of the time?

Why don't you want to end central banks and allow deflation where prices go down every fucking day?

>Socialist policy will make sure poor people have a lower barrier to entry out of welfare.
No they won't it only keeps them poor.

There's a difference between taking a mans life, and killing a man.

Under decentralized communism you could elect your local authorities.
Also, North Korea has no direct taxation, and Hoxha's Albania abolished direct taxation by 1969.

They don't.

If you're talking redaction of copyright policy then maybe you have a point, or maybe that will never happen because capitalism.

I wouldn't mind being poor if it was a little more comfy than it already is.

You're the kind of person dreaming the American (((dream))).

Stay woke folks.

>Saving 1.4 million in taxes on a $22,000 salary

Got to get me some of this socialism stuff.

Most poor people would starve or be killed

>Under decentralized communism you could elect your local authorities.
Wow we can ELECT the rulers that control every aspect of our lives.
That sounds great desu.

>Because it boosts economic growth?

AHAHAHAHHA HE FELL FOR THE TRICKLE DOWN MEME.

TYPICAL RIGHT WING RETARD KEKS

RIGHT WING RETARDS THINK MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE KEKED BY YOUR BILLIONAIRE GLOBALIST OWNERS

>Under decentralized communism
doesn't exist, everything would have to be under central control, because it's impossible to "convince" people that they should resign from their property, also you'd have to seize property by force to redistribute it, and redistribution works worse than just imposing taxes

...

Say no to corporate bailouts.

...

...

>If you're talking redaction of copyright policy then maybe you have a point
You mean a free market?
Copyright and patents don't exist in free markets.

>I wouldn't mind being poor if it was a little more comfy than it already is.
Objectively the most comfy thing is the free market.
Lower working hours, higher wages, lower prices. New service industries that serve you get created daily.

>DDDUUUUURURRRR DA TRICKLE DOWN MEME ARGUMENT

Are you a legitimate child?

You don't have any argument whatsoever, you and your central banking ideology has indebted and impoverished the nation.

Noobdy supports your retarded "trickle down" strawman argument.

the ironic thing is, after decades of propaganda even the poor and lower middle class fear the redistribution of wealth.

in germany 25% of employees are paid minimum wage or less and still nobody votes for our only left party, because they are scared of tax increases that ofc wouldnt even hit them.

socialism

>The free market doesn't wor-

socialists want their gibs.

I wish all the millionaires in Sweden wouldn't pay taxes, all they are doing is feed the Swedish government.

Do communists even look at the dehumanizing effects of communism? Every time you show them how shitty communism is in each country it reared its head they say 'not muh true communism.' How many fucking times can people fuck up trying this shit before they get that government can be just as corrupt as big business? Both need checks and balances.

RIP Stalin.

Marxist-Leninism for the people.

I can trace my family line to Oliver Cromwell you fucking irish immigrant.

Don't fucking start with it.

there were riots but not for food, they just were """protesting"""" because of lack of freedom.

the government didn't wanted them to recall the president so everything gone a shitstorm because muh democracy

Free market is impossible.

It's the pipe dream of all pipe dreams.

Shitting on the little guy.

I'm not communist. Just pointing out hypotheticals.
By the way, Orwell was a democratic socialist. He just opposed Stalinism. Also, that image's Cyrillic monstrosity gave me cancer.

remember what you could have had hans

You're a massive beta faggot

...

Force doesn't necessarily mean centralization.

No, anybody sane fears communism.

The only people who espouse it are either a: stupid or b: have something to gain

Why is Trump cutting taxes for millionaires and billionaires?

What about the poor that are killed and brutalized by the millions?

venezuela isn't even socialism and im aware of that. I support the actual government because they're fixing the economy with right wing economic policies

Syndicalism is the only socioeconomic state that aids the working class and increases motivation without tanking productivity.

Why aren't you a syndicalist yet?

hahahahahahahahhahaha

tell that to the hundreds of millions murdered and starved, you complete grade F moran

>Hey, let's set up a society of workers, soldiers, peasants and intellectuals

Bill, you can be the worker and manufacture all our goods

Jim, you can be the soldier and get your leg blown off fighting all our wars

Ted, you can be the peasant and supply all our food

and what will you do?

>Oh, I will be the intellectual and sit all day on my arse telling you all what to do

Some animals are more equal than others

google Robert Whittaker - Why Johnny Can't Think pdf or check 4+Sup Forums /pdfs/

so is US capitalist anymore or communist now? you cant say rich people do X unless you check out their local trends

>Average joe will benefit from it

indeed, dying is a great benefit, that way you don't have to endure the fucked up society that Communism bring.

The sole reason for you right wing retards to exist is to fight on behalf of your billionaire globalist owners. That's it. That's all there is to our existence.

You literally fell for the trickle down meme. You can't walk it back now retard.

this

anyone who works for a living will oppose it. It only thrives in institutions where it doesn't need to function to survive (i.e. colleges)

Humans have always depended on each other to live.

When your caveman anscestors depended on tribal communism to survive.

Other dumb shit caveman who thought they could hunt and survive by themselves are extinct.

You are one of those.

so CORRUPT BY this notion of jew liquid money fiat system you cant see past your own greed.

ME ME ME fucking generation.

the rich and power-hungry love communism. It consolidates power exclusively at the highest level. Communism and socialism are not about sharing wealth or power, they are about control. The only good commie is a fucking dead one. No exceptions.

>implying every non capitalistic country isnt embargo'ed into poverty
>implying venezuela didnt start selling oil for non-petro-dollar-currencies

top kek

...

t. braindead

>Free market is impossible.
Yet it existed before and dramatically increased living standards for the working class.

Switzerland is a country with one of the freest markets in the world and they don't inflate their currency. Swiss people have the highest local purchasing power on earth.

You're a brainwashed idiot.

>Why is Trump cutting taxes for millionaires and billionaires?
To boost economic production as it has empirically worked in the past.

See: USA slashing taxes and spending after WW2 leading to the post war economic boom.
u mad?

Also Reagan didn't even lower taxes. He also increased regulations.