Okay ill start with this, this isn't a thread to just senselessly bash Islam...

Okay ill start with this, this isn't a thread to just senselessly bash Islam. This is my objective view of the religion I was pretty much forced into believing for almost 19 years and why I left it.

First of the religion is not peaceful or tolerant. Islam will never change or conform to the society it spreads to, the society conforms to it.

Realistically about 90% of the Muslim population would like sharia law in the UK. This value I am giving is for about a billion people, in my honest opinion about 200-300 million Muslims are just closeted agnostics or atheists that support democracy. The rest 9/10 would prefer sharia law and I know some people occupying professions such as surgeons and doctors who share this belief so it isn't just limited to uneducated idiots.

The religion itself is flawed and the vast majority of people do not really follow the teachings of the Qur'an instead they follow the hadith which were written by a man born as much as 140 years after the prophet died. Everything is from there, the way Muslims pray how to live and what rules to follow. All written by a man, this is all common knowledge too.

Supposedly this man born 140 years after the death of the prophet went to all the prophets follower's decedents and asked them what rules they were told to follow and memories 600'000 sayings and rules by which Muslims should live. His autobiography details that he went to different disciples and asked them about which sayings they had also heard of (basically cross-referenced) and whittled it down to 7000 or so "solid" ones. I have plenty of other points which falsify the religion you can ask if you're curious.

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Other urls found in this thread:

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/islam-will-largest-religion-world-2070-says-report/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Religion, in general, affects a human's ability to form their own thoughts and the rules in place in Islam make it such that people will rarely every become intelligent enough to see the idiocy of it and leave the religion. Sure the people that follow it might be happy that they are pleasing their "god" but they live in a shared society wherein they're not capable of contributing as much as they could intentionally had they not been indoctrinated into a life of simpleton. I know incredible girls, funny, kind and beautiful who are forced to marry or pressured to at least. My sister is one of those women and for fuck's sake, she needs to be the last. Every liberal shares part of the blame for all the genital mutilation, rape, forced marriage, and patent that never was because they enable this backwards thinking and perpetuate the idiocy that spawns because of it.
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TLDR; closeted agnostic AMA, will be completely truthful about the shit day today Muslims don't talk about.

How widespread was the knowledge of rape gangs whithin Islamic communities?

>First of the religion is not peaceful or tolerant. Islam will never change or conform to the society it spreads to, the society conforms to it.
based
>. I know incredible girls, funny, kind and beautiful who are forced to marry or pressured to at least. My sister is one of those women and for fuck's sake, she needs to be the last.
sounds great to me, fuck the free market shit we have in the west
>Every liberal shares part of the blame for all the genital mutilation, rape, forced marriage, and patent that never was because they enable this backwards thinking and perpetuate the idiocy that spawns because of it.
there's nothing wrong with any of this

in the UK, places like Bradford and Luton pretty widespread but in places like Manchester the Muslims have adapted and integrated so not as likely there.

Do other Muslims talk about the islamification of Europe and if so, what do they think about it?

also, a lot of this is never reported so it really does stay between just the closed Muslim community and even then it's not shared much.

most of the Muslims see it as some grand liberation that Europe is being spared from jahanam (hell). Spreading islam is technically the first form of jihad.

The vast majority of Muslims condemn attacks like the one in Manchester but they do believe in instating Sharia law, stonings and the death sentence for petty things.

What made you give up Islam?

Also ex here, what do you think about the sex slavery? Concubines were a big thing during mo's time. For slavery the apologists always say 'w-well you have to treat them good, and most of the slaves mohammed freed came back to work for him again!!'.

Also how is ramadan going for you. Does your family know?

I'm born into Islam and grew to hate it when I did research and opened my mind.

I absolutely hated how Islam has destroyed my race and continue to segregate and ostracize the rest if humanity. It is indeed violent and downright ridiculous.

Any talk of reformation to make Islam more tolerable in this millennium has been shut down in the name of heresy and apostasy.

I am still """muslim""" on the outside because I don't want to lose my livelihood and possibly my life.

well, truthfully a good education, Maths and physics. I was pretty much always thirsty for knowledge past the age of 11. Started doing really well in maths and sciences. Took A-level physics chem and maths and I have the equivalent of the SAT's in 3 weeks.

Also a lot of discrepancies in the religion itself. want me to name a few?

still, happens my family is East African and I'm constantly seeing and hearing about things like an 8-year-old marrying a 60-year-old. In Islam so long as you can pay the family a sizeable amount the father of the woman can pretty much sell her into a marriage.

Also, I'm forced to fast to hide it and I can't study well while I'm like this. and the library is shut until Tuesday. Islam is getting in the way of my future.

Go for it

I know what you're dealing with, I'm thinking of going into politics someday after I'm done with a career I enjoy because honestly if you objectively look at most political leaders they're idiots voted into power by idiots. I want humans to set foot on other celestial bodies, develop VR gaming that's indistinguishable from real life to live interesting lives. If all else fails I might actually start a country, ill have the means to do it some day and it'll be a safe haven of intellectual prosperity. Imagine a place where the GDP goes into research before the army.

when i think of the origin of islam, i think of a bedouin who met with other religious leaders of his time then went back to his nomadic tribe in order to spread what he learned. of course those teachings where altered in some ways

Most muslims hope that the world converts and follows islam

Is it possible to outwit your parents and live on your own? I mean if what you are saying is true then you are literally in the 10% that actually understand what's happening. Also is there anyway we can discourage the fuckers from coming back in Europe and America?

The moment Islamic Law will stop being too harsh people will be more open when it comes to Islam

And it can happen if countries like Malaysia stop punishing apostasy, stop focusing on the hadith and starts focusing on the Quran

I'm Muslim and what I love about Islam is mostly its theology and the Quran, I don't trust a lot the hadith

>I might actually start a country, ill have the means to do it some day
How are you planning to start your own country?

logically of the moon was split into two it would be detectable. It isn't and was never.

In the OP I mentioned that the actual rules Muslims follow don't come from the Quran but another book was written by a human being born 140 years after the prophet died.

there is a verse in the Quran that was brought down in the midst of a wartime when Muslim infantry numbers had declined to a dangerous level. Once the verse was brought down the numbers rose dramatically and the Muslims won that war. The verse promised soldiers 72 "full-breasted" virgins.

also, what are your views on race?

I plan to have substantial influence and I'm fairly certain I can get that. If enough intellectuals (mathematicians, engineers, doctors etc) backed the movement and it attained global traction some country somewhere would be open to giving some wasteland over. A bit of investment from people with mentalities like Elon Musk a super society like that could thrive. I don't think it would take more than a few years for a country with double the average IQ of the rest of the world to become a global superpower.

I can understand that a lot of the people I know need this sort of structure in their life.

...

Fasting Muslim here.

>First of the religion is not peaceful or tolerant. Islam will never change or conform to the society it spreads to, the society conforms to it.

Indeed. Islam isn't peaceful nor it is hateful it's fair; if you hate Islam, Islam will hate you, if you don't harm Islam, Islam won't harm you.
I'm talking about the religion, not how it is applied.

>The religion itself is flawed and the vast majority of people do not really follow the teachings of the Qur'an instead they follow the hadith

The Quran isn't flawed but we can say that the religion is flawed by some hadith.
But about the teachings -it is not a huge problem- for the simple fact that the teachings of the hadith are linked to the teachings of the Quran. I refer to the 5 holy pillars taught in the Sunnah.

Shahada (hadith) There is no deity except God/Allah (Quran)
Alms (hadith) Zäkat (Quran)
Pilgrimage (hadith) Going to the Masjid al-Haram (Quran)
Prayer (hadith) Salat (Quran)
Ramadan (hadith) Siyam (Quran)
They blend in. So that's not a problem.

>genital mutilation, rape, forced marriage
Wouldn't put that in the name of Islam but more about culture.
About FGM:
-practiced before Islam in Arabia
-practiced before Islam in North Africa
-one single hadith about it and where Muhammad (s) isn't even saying that it is fitrah.

I do think that Islam needs to get rid of the hadith that doesn't get along with the Quran such as :
-killing the apostate (nowhere in the Quran)
-killing gays (nowhere in the Quran)


But really, being a Muslim born in an atheist extra-secular country, what really makes me love Islam is the Quran. I know Sup Forums is going to laugh at me for this but the Quran is really a superpower that have all of the answers.

I met a Muslim convert months ago who was hindu, christian then became atheist and then read the Quran and converted to Islam because the Quran had all of the answers. He just strongly reject the hadith.

I get that a lot of people on pol are intolerant and can be racist but here's why race literally doesn't matter.

As a human being, you are a glorified computer. You possess the same organic components as all other humans in a different case. the only difference is what you do with your hardware, do you get educated and be a supercomputer or live the life of a TI-82?

What sect?

>the only difference is what you do with your hardware
nigga I take it you haven't read much about g

>all of the answers
that's exactly the kind of lies that perpetuate this religion.

also scientifically nothing finite can have infinite solutions. A book 600 pages long do not answer everything and if that's actually the level of mental deficiency you suffer from I won't waste any more time replying to you.

actually, I hope you become the first east african nobel prize winning scientist. go and prove yourself correct

sunni

That's not sex slavery tho, that's childmarriage, Which is also wrong. BUT how do i deflect the good treatment meme of slaves

Isn't it shirk to follow the hadith over the word of God?

Do you think there is any difference in the way shia lives their lives?

>my family is East African
Go back

>I did A-Level Physics, Chemistry and Maths with mechanics.
>still Muslim.

>the filename
Shahada is the "there is only one god..." thing right? What is tawheed? I've heard that word before.

>-killing gays (nowhere in the Quran)
That's one of the few good things about you guys though.

Do you need to learn arabic to convert? If you say the shahadah in english would it still matter? I'm curious as to how it works, especially considering the fact that it's supposed to be a universal religion yet the arabic language has a massive advantage over all others.

you can't treat a slave well because when you look at the bottom line you own them. They can't have dignity and are often stuck as a slave for the rest of their lives. The are no longer free sentient humans they're machines that obey your command, you own them and they are your property just as much as your car or phone.

HAHAHAHA wait... are you serious?

>that's exactly the kind of lies that perpetuate this religion.

To you, but see I was a Muslim by name up until last year when I really got into Christianity and Judaism in order to find the "truth".
And I ended up reading the Quran and I found all of the answers in it. So two years ago I was more agnostic than Muslim and now I'm Muslim .
But that's just my experience. When I talk about "all of the answers" I'm talking about all of the answers about RELIGION. Not about science or anything else.
Quran isn't an encyclopaedia. Don't be so hurt.

It depends. If you follow the hadith you have to make sure it agrees with the Quran, thus the word of God, and don't put anyone else, not even Muhammad (s) before God.
Basically what ISIS is doing is shirk.

nope, democracy ftw.

as I said I'm a closeted agnostic. But yes I know plenty of other people that are very religious despite being educated because their upbringing was more severe and the level of indoctrination they were subjected to was simply too much to undo.

yeah, buts the degrees of separation are pretty negligible.

I guess a notable difference is that they tend to have less violent tendencies and aren't usually affiliated with terror groups as much as other sects.

>Do you need to learn arabic to convert? If you say the shahadah in english would it still matter? I'm curious as to how it works, especially considering the fact that it's supposed to be a universal religion yet the arabic language has a massive advantage over all others.
one of the discrepancies.

mhmm

>Basically what ISIS is doing is shirk.
Is it because they care more about hadiths than about the quran? Or because they interpret the quran wrong?

>one of the discrepancies.
What do you mean?

Shahada is the testimony of faith where you confirm your belief in the tawheed.

Tawheed is the core belief of Islam, probably the most important one. It's very simple:
it's the belief in One Supreme God, whom you can't imagine, and Who is absolutely unitarian.

That's why Islamic theology differs from Christian one, mostly because Christians have a trinitarian God. (sorry if I'm wrong but from what I studied about Christianity that's what I understood).

>Do you need to learn arabic to convert?

No, the problem nowadays is that Muslims are so much focused on details. I'd say it would be better to learn arabic in order to read the Quran.

But for praying, for the shahada you don't really need to learn arabic, everything must happen in your heart first. But usually at the mosque they make converts recite the Shahada in arabic.

The deal with me is that I believe a lot of stuff is metaphorical and has been fabricated as you mentioned about a different version of a quran being read in modern times.
What mainly keeps me with it is the signs of the end times that have come true and “Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers.” This explains the modern situation well since Muslims now aren't even followers of their own faith.

What do Muslims think of the "liberals" or the SJWs? Are they seen just as useful idiots or some sort of allies?

ISIS is doing shirk because they mostly follows the fatwa of their chief (Abu bakr al-Baghdadi) and blindly follow his word, while breaking, of course, Islamic principles.

If you're more interested in this I suggest you to read the open letter that 120 sheikhs from all over the world wrote to ISIS, showing them how wrong they were according to Islam.

>Realistically about 90% of the Muslim population would like sharia law in the UK.

Stopped reading there
that's bullshit
100% of muslims want sharia law
the rest is just pretend

>Tawheed is the core belief of Islam, probably the most important one. It's very simple:
>it's the belief in One Supreme God, whom you can't imagine, and Who is absolutely unitarian
Is it a term used for that concept or could it be translated into english? Does it just mean "there is only one God"?

>mostly because Christians have a trinitarian God. (sorry if I'm wrong but from what I studied about Christianity that's what I understood).
Christians see God as one but he also has different aspects that manifest in different ways. But they are all God. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit are all One. They are all God.

>No, the problem nowadays is that Muslims are so much focused on details. I'd say it would be better to learn arabic in order to read the Quran.
I've tried to learn some regular sentences just out of curiosity and it's really hard to not get into a "tounge twister".

I guess you're shia considering the picture?

with regards to Isis, the underlying issue is one of inadequate education which is bred into intolerance and eventually violence.

with regard to the discrepancies. Islam is much easier to follow for Arab people. Hajj is closer praying is easier, understanding the Quran is easier etc.

There are also weird loopholes, like during Ramadan areas of land that don't have a sunset like the north and south poles or Alaska sometimes. Also in places like Australia right now people will only fast for like 10 hours but in England you fast for 18.

...

with regards to the signs of the end times.

You can actually make your own predictions and theoretically, they will eventually have a high probability of happening, it's all statistical.

"i should bring them to islam"

>ISIS aren't actually muslims. I refuse to acknowledge their relation to Islam because they aren't real muslims.
How do you respond to this? It seems like the most delusional bullshit ever. How do you even argue with someone delusional enough to think this way?

some Muslims especially the youth have integrated well, they enjoy footie and games just like every other kid and don't want to be forced to go to the mosque.

regardless of what other Muslim say they are. Unless they commit a sin which makes them a nonmuslim. And even if they commit such a sin so long as they truly in their heart believe that it's for Islam and do it for Allah, which they do because they're not bright people they will technically not be held accountable.

provided they dont think their act is a sin.

the only thing triggering about this is the shitty art and weeb pig

>Hey guise its another episode of i LARP and jerk off your dicks!
>Yes goys!!! i was muslims, now let me tell you how bad islam is so you can delude yourself into thinking islam will lose!

Islam is the fastest growing religion, thankfully people like you are starting to come out, we don't need munafiqs between us

>Is it a term used for that concept or could it be translated into english? Does it just mean "there is only one God"?

It's a term used for that concept but yes it can be translated to english into "oneness of God" for example.
We jus keep the arabic word because it's more precise and simple.

>Christians see God as one but he also has different aspects that manifest in different ways. But they are all God. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit are all One. They are all God.
Yeah I see but including Jesus (s) in it is like shirk/association for Islam. But I respect this view of God.

>I've tried to learn some regular sentences just out of curiosity and it's really hard to not get into a "tounge twister".
Yeah ahah, semitic languages, especially arabic, truly have some difficult pronunciations.

And no I'm not I just find this writing of the tawhid really beautiful ahah. (Yeah this is "la ilaha il'Allah)

>preaching to the choir

"Women will have hair, like the hump of a camel"

This is just one of them but for a person that couldn't read and lived in the desert. That's is a crazy guess. The probability of someone getting over 70 claims correct 1400 years after it was said is pretty much unheard of.

Thank you for the answers.

>we don't need munafiqs

Ahahah, true akhi. But most of them are just leaving islam for dumb reasons such as the fear of being labelled as terrorists. Fortunately there are non-muslims who can make a difference between what Islam is and how Islam is applied in some countries

You're a credit to your country.

No problem, it was a pleasure

i agree frenchbro

just fuck off

>This is just one of them but for a person that couldn't read and lived in the desert. That's is a crazy guess. The probability of someone getting over 70 claims correct 1400 years after it was said is pretty much unheard of.

statistically though it isn't, in fact its likely. If you make some reasonable predictions the eventually they will most likely occur so long as humanity dosent get wiped out.

what about the more incredible predictions mankind have made that overshadow this? like the atomic model and sending people to the moon, how does a book compare?

I know we're on pol but this thread is a little bit more intelligent than usual, don't be corny :v

New converts everyday, we don't need your bitch ass.

kys

Lol there are more apostates than converts nigger, the only reason you guys are the fastest growing religion is because you breed like rabits. Fuck off

daily reminder that Oman is the only based muslim country

Go back to rebbit then faggot

>intelligent
implying muslims can be intelligent, how dumb are you?

hahahah this is the most advanced thing this retarded subhuman can say

You probably have an IQ of 20

the sad truth is that if you had a better education maybe you wouldn't need religion to give meaning to your existence. You follow a unfalsifiable book with no proof in a world where you can see first hand that you yourself can make things happen. There is a mirror on the moon that we can bounce monochromatic light sources of to tell us exactly how far away the moon is. We can set two lasers at right angles and measure a distortion in spacetime that's 0.0000000000000001m wide which occurred millions of years ago. But yeah sure just know your existence and quality of life is paid for by better people.

All jokes aside is it like the new thing to convert to Islam nowadays? Recently a lot of friends told me that members of their family converted

I'm white, average 10 point IQ above shit skins, jsu fact goat fucker, it's you that's the subhuman

do you guys think that islam will ever go back to be more friendly towards science like in the early times? its dark age already lasts like 1000 years or so.

a symptom of a declining education quality globally.

for me I never got the choice to pick Islam I was circumcised at birth and indoctrinated into believing.

Yes, of course!

you are so pathetic, its almost sad, cumskin

>MUH WITE SKINZ

Do you really not have any arguments? but oh well i have to remember im talking to the most retarded stupidest group of people on earth

hello walid shoebat how are you today

>source: my ass
I personally know a fuck ton of converts lmao Sup Forums btfo
seems like it, its probably because of the media attention of islamic terrorism, makes ppl read more about islam, alhamdulilah :^)

religion will die out in about 50 years.

The difference between scientific predictions is that they have prior research from a knowledgeable person. It is much easier to predict science than to predict how human morals and mentalities would change.

The atomic model was predicted with experimentation with a gold leaf which gave readings which could be analysed to assume Bohr's model. Now if you think of someone who is from the desert who had no scientific understanding or psychological understanding of humans. It is also stated that "The holy prophet (PBUH) narrated that the Major signs of qiyama will come as fast as beads falling of a necklace" This has also became true in the past 20-30 years. You say that something will occur as long as time allows it but he specifically stated that it would have an increasing rate.

>religion will die out in about 50 years.
AHAHAHAH TOP KEK

telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/01/islam-will-largest-religion-world-2070-says-report/

>I want humans to set foot on other celestial bodies, develop VR gaming that's indistinguishable from real life to live interesting lives.

Based ex-Muslim.

>there are more apostates than converts nigger
no data on that. plus converts are pretty much silent about their conversions.

My family never forced religion on me.
Also I know this speech that your kind of people say about religion. Why do you try to confront religion to science?
The holy books weren't supposed to be encyclopaedias, they weren't supposed to be scientific books but books for guidance and metaphysics. What makes you think that there isn't God behind all of this science instead of nothing?

sounds unrealistic

what makes you believe that?

You will never be British, your people did not build this culture, did not fight and die for the freedom that we have, your family came here for the good life white people created, you are a parasite

>plus converts are pretty much silent about their conversions
Nice meme, you mean apostates.

>islam is literally child-sex-slaves tier ancap
WHAT THE FUCK I LOVE ISLAM NOW?
>tfw no 9yo aisha waifu
we were wrong guys, islam is the key to white birthrates

>"The holy prophet (PBUH) narrated that the Major signs of qiyama will come as fast as beads falling of a necklace"

see this statement is a valid argument so long as its true. But here's the catch you cant prove or disprove this.

its like if i say this

there are aliens on the dark side of the moon, you cant disprove and i cant prove but if someone believes me then they will always believe me because they cant be made to not believe me.