Why don't commies simply start non-capitalist communes?
Under capitalism, they're perfectly free to do so. No need to enforce their will upon others.
Moreover, pretty much the only intervention they'd encounter from the capitalist state would be taxation, which is a staple ingredient of socialism/communism to begin with.
>following your convictions
>leftists
pay more attention you dolt
>expecting liberals to get anything productive done
Because communism is incompatible with capitalism there needs to be transactionary period form capitalism to socialism to communism in order for it to work.
>leftist actually taking action to do anything at all
>gives you perfect solution
>b-but my u-utopia
>Because communism is incompatible with capitalism
Why?
What would stop a commune from living the commie life in a capitalist society?
Taxes? (lmao)
Due to the nature of communist society, there cannot be dual power between any governments,corporations or markets.
It might be solution for non-Marxist communists, but not for us.
Why would there be dual power, governments, corporations, or markets within the commune?
It is not about within but without. Commune would still be effected by outside forces, via taxes, social interaction or limits on ownership and goods.
So communism can only work if the entire world is communist?
The entire planet would be enough, ideally we could shoot all the communists to Mars.
Dude, the whole thing about modern commies is that they're too lazy to do ANYTHING. Start
a community? They still live with mumzie and dadders. This is perfect for those who wish to
use communism to control everyone -- no worthwhile human bean would ever go for it.
possibly create your own means of production? spread the idea of small communes across the country so you can trade with them or something
>It is not about within but without.
...food, ambition and self-respect.
they do all the time and they fail every time.
Becuase cummunism is non-functional and retarded.
They are already in a superior system as well so why would they fuck themselves over like that
There would still be people oppressed by capitalism, only solution still would be a violent overthrow of the government.
I know.
>"superior" system
>Planned obsolescence
>production based on market cycles and not material needs
>ineffective usage of resources and labor
what about overrthrow of local government?
>all the shit that would get a company btfo'd, unless it's propped up by government -- aka socialism.
So basically our communist friend here is stating that communism doesn't work. Got it.
Part of communist indoctrination include the belief that the current system needs to be destroyed. This should be a red flag to critical thinkers but commies prefer to let other do the thinking for them.
>capitalism not being superior
>even marx had to admit its effeciency
>capitalism still hasn't collapsed
>>Planned obsolescence
Market preference.
Also, better than planned famine.
>production based on market cycles and not material needs
Nobody "needs" anything other than food and shelter.
>>ineffective usage of resources and labor
Hilarious coming from a communist.
How would we distribute all of the rich people's stuff then??
Because those interested in communism have zero productive capacity. They're interested in communism in the first place because it allows them to steal the efforts of others.
>Under capitalism, they're perfectly free to do so. No need to enforce their will upon others.
Socialism in a nation was bullshit; socialism in a commune is a joke. Communism needs global adoption or nothing.
>Moreover, pretty much the only intervention they'd encounter from the capitalist state would be taxation, which is a staple ingredient of socialism/communism to begin with.
There is no "taxation" in communist countries. There is no equivalent of the IRS. Taxation happens in capitalist countries.
>Communism needs global adoption or nothing.
I really hope you're not saying this as an argument in favor of communism.
>ocialism in a nation was bullshit; socialism in a commune is a joke. Communism needs global adoption or nothing.
So your ideology cannot even work on a small scale. Yet you magically want to make it global. You are truly an idiot.
>production based on market cycles and not material needs
Cummies once again prove that they dont understand supply and demand
>ineffective usage of resources and labor
We are so efficient we can afford to put resources and labor into development rather than having to produce more food for the starving
what is supposed to keep communist society afloat?
what is supposed to keep communist society afloat?
it is the power over others they seek.
Markets don`t function on basis of material demand or supply, but supply of marketable goods and monetary supply.
Communism and socialism function best when population is around the Dunbar number. Once the group size exceeds the individual's immediate social network altruism leaves the equation.
Literally all productive output is taxed 100% in a true communist state.
They did in the 50s and 60s in America. None lasted more than a few years because they had trouble farming. Everyone had to work 15 hour days working the land just to survive. Most people said fuck this and left the group.
I am, though? Early marxism defended that communism would happen in a global scale. Later Lenin and Stalin developed the concept of "socialism in one country".
If the idea of global communism sounds utopian to you, consider that we live in a era with almost full global capitalist adoption; this would have sounded utopian a couple of centuries ago.
The economy? Socialism is not really that much different from capitalism, it is just a change on the ownership of the means of production. It is still supposed to produce things.
THey don't because niggers aren't capable of communes. So thanks to leftists and their mass immigration you can't start your precious communes.
So much for logic.
Don't believe me? Look up the r/K Selection theory. Niggers aren't capable of altruism or advanced organization.
>Communism needs global adoption or nothing
So communism is basically a supervillain trying to take over the world?
You opposed your own argument within one sentence.
>Why don't commies simply start non-capitalist communes
There are plenty of hippy communes around
You claim to know how basic economics work but yet fail to understand supply&demand.
No, you're a supply sider larping as a pinko.
A cummunist shouldn't lay claim to any kind of ecomonic understanding at all, since lack thereof is required to become a cummie in the first place.
>consider that we live in a era with almost full global capitalist adoption
Consider that capitalism actually works at any scale from small to international.
>Communism is only good if there's no competition
I just realize this is the perfect jew scheme.
All the goys Will work for them for "free".
Not quite the right time for Communism, considering that countries are no longer independent economically. Even North Korea relies heavily on fuel exports to keep its leader fat. As long as everyone can make profit aka get a job, Capitalism is here to stay.
But then came the machines
oh I cant wait for the machines
and the select few who will become the AI
Hasn't that been the point since the start? The ruling party will consist of Jews and everyone else will be the goyim cattle slaving away for the party.
>communists build commune
>they stop paying taxes because no money
>government kills everyone
You're a product of your mom with planned obsolescence
Free market (laissez faire) capitalism: A bottom up economic environment where any transaction must be voluntary in order to be legitimate. Scarcity creates demand, demand creates supply (due to entrepreneurs meeting the demand by creating companies using capital in order to produce the desired good). The less government intervention, the more the market populates with small businesses and thus supply. The businesses which provide the most customer satisfaction, produce the best quality goods and sells them at the lowest price succeed; those that don't, fail. Companies which harm or under pay their employees either change policy or go out of business due to losing employees and earning a bad reputation.
Though things aren't this way in reality, at least it makes sense and fucking works when implemented. It practically runs itself. With Communism, you have a centralised economy regulated by either the state (muh no true scotsman) or the labourer (muh stateless) which destroys incentive for productivity and profit (two major benefits of capitalism) along with all the bad things we know the USSR fucked up in terms of collectivised farming and food distribution blunders.
Need I say more?
kekd
It is not as easy, however, there are great numbers of well-functioning communes and industrial cooperatives, so your question is irrelevant.
There is absolutely no reason to back down from all other kinds of political action in advancement of communism.
This retarded question can be asked to every kind of people. For example, what does it prevent natsocs from buying up property and settling in at as an isolated racially pure town?
>there are great numbers of well-functioning communes and industrial cooperatives
So why don't commies to there?
Why must they try to convert everyone to their ideology?
>what does it prevent natsocs from buying up property and settling in at as an isolated racially pure town?
Lmao.
Protip: people of different races nearly always self-segregate by race or ethnicity whenever they have that choice.
Be it in churches, prison, or residential areas.
Just a daily reminder that any kind of Communist activities/organisations are outlawed.
>The Communist Party of the United States, or any successors of such party regardless of the assumed name, whose object or purpose is to overthrow the Government of the United States, or the government of any State, Territory, District, or possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein by force and violence, are not entitled to any of the rights, privileges, and immunities attendant upon legal bodies created under the jurisdiction of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof; and whatever rights, privileges, and immunities which have heretofore been granted to said party or any subsidiary organization by reason of the laws of the United States or any political subdivision thereof, are terminated: Provided, however, That nothing in this section shall be construed as amending the Internal Security Act of 1950, as amended [50 U.S.C. 781 et seq.]
(Aug. 24, 1954, ch. 886, ยง3, 68 Stat. 776.)
>law.cornell.edu
Your rights as a citizen WILL be stripped. You WILL be disappeared. You've been warned.
Go ask /leftypol/
Read up on how capitalism ruined the kibbutz communities in Israel, there's some great academic papers on how exactly it changed people's mindset and what gradually happened.
It doesn't work if you just try to LARP it inside a society that's against it in every aspect of being.
Actually, they tried to do that in the 60's to the 90's, all of them failed because all of them were drugged up hippies or the system developed into a hierarchical structure
Kibbutzim were never self-sufficient though. They were like miniature North Koreas in this respect: outwardly socialist/communist, but heavily reliant on the outside for many basic needs.
>It doesn't work if you just try to LARP it inside a society that's against it in every aspect of being.
Why the fuck not?
Also, nobody would be against your commune if you did your shit in peace without disturbing anyone else.
You could have your commune members spread out in a regular city, and nobody would actively mess with you for being a communist commune member any more than they would for being a scientologist or something..
>Why the fuck not?
Read this and see:
ecpr.eu
It's a very naive question btw, I doubt you don't understand how a vegetarian commune wouldn't work in a cannibal society for example. People still live in larger society, they can't be completely isolated anymore.
>how a vegetarian commune wouldn't work in a cannibal society
Cannibal society?
How does that analogy work?
Also, how "good" is your economic system if it cannot even survive within an extremely permissive system like modern western capitalism?
the question is, where? where is land that is not taken over by capitalism, if i could just walk out of my city and start, off grid or a commune, i would do so.
private properity and land owned by state, stands in the way everywhere you go.
Modern western capitalism is only "permissive" in such a way that it devours everything and integrates it into itself. If you participate, your values are irrevocably corrupted forever.
>Why don't commies simply start non-capitalist communes?
For the same reason they don't start co-op companies that redistribute the firm's capital. There's absolutely nothing preventing them doing this yet they never do it - really makes me think.
>it devours everything and integrates it into itself. If you participate, your values are irrevocably corrupted forever.
Empty words. You are clearly led by your emotions.
>the question is, where? where is land that is not taken over by capitalism
You'd need to make an initial investment if you want land. Land is extremely cheap in many places.
You can buy entire deserted villages sometimes for the price of a small house.
>Empty words. You are clearly led by your emotions.
Read the link retard.
More empty words.
I already told you Kibbutz were never self-sufficient.
Also, a lot of the drive and motivation behind them came from nationalism and religion. Two elements that are ironically incompatible with communism.
>More empty words.
Read it.
I'm not about to read 29 pages on something that isn't even relevant to the discussion.
Then fuck off.
I accept your defeat.
/leftypol/ btfo
they will never recover from this
Look at what happened in the USSR, and is now happening in Venezuela and North Korea. If you don't participate in capitalism the way the rest of the world wants you too, your economy will be deliberately undermined and sabotaged.
The working class all over the world will wake up before communism becomes a stable, worldwide economic system.
In Brazil there was a religious-communist like city that was ravaged by the republic because they didn't pay taxes and were being so self-reliant that they could secede from the country
The USSR, North Korea, and Venezuela are all fucked because of their own internal problems.
"Hurr durr, we failed. Lets blame everyone else"
Communism in a nut shell.
If your economy can't be internally sustainable at a smaller size, then what makes you think it will be stable at an even larger scale?
If your system relies on globalism (which btw, makes the rich richer and the poor poorer) to fix "inequality" you're system is a literal contradiction.
>Venezuela
Communism can't even survive in an oil country.
>North Korea
Receives much of its food from capitalist states like the US.
Also, always had a pretty reliable partner in China. Its failings are obviously internal.
And at one point the USSR was very much on par with the US in military might, international standing and influence, etc.
And it failed horribly.
>Why don't commies simply start non-capitalist communes?
Because commies want to be commissars and force others to work. when they themselves do nothing in cushy position When they start voluntary communes these doesn't work people just leave them when commisaring starts.
As well as pic related, folks pushing communism are always from middle class backgrounds. They also don't give a shit about helping the """poor/working class"""; their focus is more on the ruination of the """rich/successful""". Jealousy is truly the ugliest affliction of all.
>Why don't commies simply start non-capitalist communes?
because they always end up killing themselves in 'revolutionary suicide'.
not even being sarcastic, look up jonestown.
Not for nothing but if youre any kind of left wing that isnt anarcho-syndicalism youre unbelievably stupid. Not that the anarchists are right either but at least they didnt watch their dumb idea fail repeatedly
>enact sanctions
>cause extreme famine
>deliberately cause the starvation of thousands of people so you can blame it on communism
>eventually dumb cheap grain and completely destroy local production by making people dependent on capitalist superpowers
>"hurr durr communism this proves communism could never work"
DELET
You're a fucking idiot cunt, the correct process is Capitalism to war to anarchy to 'not real' communism
How about some statistics on libertarian demographics, lol.
you mean like the amish? You literally described the amish.
By all means. Please post them.
You can buy land and run it as a commune you dumb fuck, theyve been around for most of american history they just usually collapse
Communism is only enjoyable for the hand full of upper echelon elite.
The people labor to provide protection and means for that elite to remain as is.
The rise to power and shift to communism comes as a social justice and equality movement. Ideals of utopia on earth. In the end you end up with a powerful elite that lives the life of luxury and everyone else supports that lifestyle for them under threat of the military boot. Forced by the state to produce without choice under the watchful eye of the state security apparatus. Anything against the interest of the party is suppressed by the systems in place to control the ideology and action of the population.
/communism
Basically everyone works their ass off by force so a select group can live luxurious lives protected from threat by the economic and military machine the general public support and maintain.
White people suck at collectives, will always be true, just let the asians figure it out if anyone can hivemind it its them
Sounds like a Jewish dream come true.
>USSR
Corrupt, inefficient, bureaucratic. It was dragged down by its own failed system. A leech that had to suck off the developments and wheat of the West to survive, all the while stuck in a purgatorial stagnation.
>North Korea
Kimmy participates in the economy, just not as much the surface economy. He sells a shit-ton of cooperatively produced meth and armaments to help keep his fief up.
>Venezuela
It failed because the gibs ran out, along with a lack of long-term investments and a shitty oil market. Chavez laid the seeds for its self-destruction by focusing on fridges instead of a development fund. Didn't stop him and his cronies from riding in hummers while the common people got shot up by thugs in the streets.
Where did you actually get this "information", do they teach this in American schools directly or just through other American media or what?
>be transactionary period form capitalism to socialism
This transitional period is spreading of communes and worker cooperatives which start to occupy larger portion of economy until they fill everything due to better effectiveness (no exploitation so workers flock to them). In theory this how peaceful transition to communism looks like.
In practice commies can't make anything only steal from others. Their "communism" always, ALWAYS included prohibition of leaving of their communes under death penalty, only then they can "work". Maeks you think.
DingDingDIng we have a winner!