Considering he's supposedly 2/3 god (which is mathematically impossible, but...

Brandon Garcia
Brandon Garcia

Considering he's supposedly 2/3 god (which is mathematically impossible, but whatever), isn't Gil actually really weak compared to Berserker, who's only a demigod and would still beat or tie him in every personal stat but luck even without the madness enhancement, and Saber who isn't a god at all?

I mean, the whole idea is supposed to be, he's the guy upon whom the concept of hero was built, so you'd think on the basis of that sort of trope he'd be the strongest, but really its just that his toys are the strongest and he was bellow expectations in every other way.

Oh, and also, he's an idiot. I mean, none of the servants outside of Medea or maybe Archer are what I would call good analytical thinkers, but he really takes the cake.

Leo Barnes
Leo Barnes

2/3 God means you're a demi-god

Wyatt Myers
Wyatt Myers

Fate being badly written chuuni shit
How surprising.

Nathan Lewis
Nathan Lewis

If you think Gil's stats matter at all you completely missed the point of his character. Stats don't mean shit, normal rules about servants don't mean shit. His NP is broken in an immeasurable way, and NPs decide servant fights 99% of the time, ergo he wins fights while standing around gloating and barely even trying.

Herc is a big ball of stats with an immortality NP. For most servants that makes him an unkillable monster they can never beat. For Gil it means it takes slightly longer to kill him.

Anthony Jackson
Anthony Jackson

it's just his toys are the strongest
Think of it like country.
Gilgamesh is a modern country with beyond imagination high tech arsenal while the other servants are barbaric countries with only 2 at most second hand secret weapons.

Mason Cook
Mason Cook

The whole point he's making is that he's only strong because of what he possesses rather than intrinsically, despite Herakles power coming from being a demigod, and Gil being more divine than him. Hell, Lancelot is stronger than him and he's completely human and from the Age of Man rather than the Age of Gods..

It makes zero sense.

Carson Nelson
Carson Nelson

Lancelot is stronger than him and he's completely human and from the Age of Man rather than the Age of Gods
So is Gawain, and they both come from a time when humans were exactly the same as they are in modern times too, as confirmed by the scene in UBW showing Arturia being just as weak as an ordinary 14 year old girl when she doesn't use Prana Burst.

Shit's retarded.

Noah Wright
Noah Wright

I think what he meant was that Gil's lineage conformed to the usual pair of parents each with a pair of their own parents and so on, so that a fraction like 2/3 is normally impossible

Josiah Ortiz
Josiah Ortiz

Basically Gil's mom Ninsun was a goddess. He had a mortal father (Lugalbanda) and another god joined the threesome.

Ergo 2/3s god.

Brody Mitchell
Brody Mitchell

What I'm saying is, why isn't he both?

Gil didn't really kill Berserker, after all, his toys did. He's not even strong enough to through the things himself. He's really really weak.

William Ross
William Ross

Divinity isn't always related to power. His soul on the other hand, can fill a fucking grail by itself.

Nathan Jackson
Nathan Jackson

I would know, being a wizard, but I don't think that's how it works.

Leo Martinez
Leo Martinez

Oh, and also, he's an idiot.

Yea, but nobody in Fate really behaves too logically. It's just poor writing

Juan Gutierrez
Juan Gutierrez

We know that today, but the Sumerians didn't know any better

Wyatt Torres
Wyatt Torres

So you're saying his soul is really powerful...but he's actually weak, or mediocre at best. If his soul is so, er, big, why isn't that reflected in him being really strong?

Logan Foster
Logan Foster

/a/thread/141201512#p141201512
Divinity isn't always everything user, also gil was suposedly has a large if not the largest magical energy, but since his master is shit he got nerfed while hercules' stats are buffed with mad enhancement. Berserker's strength wasn't based from his divinity, it's from his legend

Lincoln Parker
Lincoln Parker

Who are you quoting

Eli Edwards
Eli Edwards

I am an idiot

Juan Harris
Juan Harris

68 kilos at 182 cms
Is he auschwitz mode under all that armor? I'm 69-70 at 174 and I look like I just escaped from birkenau

Dominic Jackson
Dominic Jackson

but he's actually weak, or mediocre at best
No. Where would you get that idea? His stats might not have much use to him but he is by no means weak

Jason Cooper
Jason Cooper

That's 3/4s

Jason Young
Jason Young

I'm pretty sure they handled things the same way as we did.

No, really, at most, everyone else is just either committed to some sort of ideal in a way that makes them act in a way that seems dumb...but Gilgamesh, even for this cast of characters is really quite an idiot.

I mean, the moment Shiro started countering his sword-spam, he should have remember he'd not that much more agile or strong than a mage using strengthening and put on his armor at least. The whole idea is supposed to be that he's arrogant because he's so powerful that he's not going to sully Ea with a mongrel---but how does he not think, Oh shit, I'm actually not really that strong in the first place, so if I can't just win by shooting weapons, I should probably try using some of my weapons that are the only reason I always win.

Did he just forget his had C endurance and agility? I don't see any other way to explain it.

Ian Sullivan
Ian Sullivan

No, Japan just doesn't use weight correctly when it comes to anime and the like.

A or B rank strength
Weak
What are you smoking?

Owen Baker
Owen Baker

2/3 god is possible because it's how the sumerians believed divinity worked, 1/3 from father, 1/3 from mother, 1/3 from womb. The Sumerians would have probably said Jesus was 1/2 god, since his father was divine and he was born in a mortal womb.

However Gilgamesh really hates the gods just like in his legend so his divinity rank is lowered to 1/3 sometimes.

Gilgamesh is a great character because of his flaws. Archer Heracles would be able to give him a much better fight but would still lose because of Enkidu. Berserker Heracles, especially with mad enhancement and protecting Illya stood no chance.

Saber is different because of Avalon and because Gil wants to fuck her so he holds back.

Sebastian Miller
Sebastian Miller

He is strong tho. Just a little weaker than saber. Besides a normal human he is still a monster. People talk about normal humans like saber, lancelot and such, but they aren't normal humans anymore. They're servants. Anyway, Gilgamesh fought with saber and he blocked fucking excalibur with his arms. He is strong, he just doesn't have the best technique.

Zachary Nelson
Zachary Nelson

I'm pretty sure they handled things the same way as we did.
They didn't know anything about sperm and eggs and whatnot so a child having three parents from some weird-ass divine threeway would seem totally plausible to them

Camden Sanders
Camden Sanders

why isn't that reflected in him being really strong?
He is strong, he just can't match the strongest melee servants in combat nor has the weapon skill to keep up with them. It's much easier and quicker to just shoot them with NPs

Liam Ramirez
Liam Ramirez

so what tier did you fall into?

Bentley Price
Bentley Price

He didn't even have a master in the original game, he's using his own power and that's actually being enhanced with a bunch of orphans too.

If legend-status is what gives you power, Gil should have been weaker than Avenger seeing as nobody even knew who he was until 100 years ago and even now few outside of college world lit classes ever here of him.

Gabriel Fisher
Gabriel Fisher

If legend-status is what gives you power
Legend status is just a minor buff on top of what you already have.

Benjamin Gutierrez
Benjamin Gutierrez

Gil's armor is pretty strong, which is why in UBW when he wears his slavshit he's vulnerable.

He's incredibly cocky but the point is that his NP is so strong that he wins so many fights just from it. Caster, Berserker, Saber without Avalon, F/Z Rider are all really powerful servants that he just absolutely destroys. Gilgamesh is really good at reading his opponent, better than Archer, it's just that he fights completely differently which means he's much less effective versus someone who can counter his swordspam such as Shirou or Lancelot.

Charles Martinez
Charles Martinez

But that doesn't make sense, if he's like some sort of demigod above other demigods, he should not only have all the best weapons, he should be the strongest, the most agile, etc. If its based on his legend of whatever, he should have literally nothing but GoB because he's the hero with the absolute smallest legend among the bunch---I believe that his obscurity was part of the reason Nasu chose him as one of the main antagonists.

Jason Hill
Jason Hill

-I believe that his obscurity was part of the reason Nasu chose him as one of the main antagonists.
Correct, he wanted a well known hero to be a villain (Hercules) and a relatively old and unknown one as well (Gilgamesh)

Cameron Robinson
Cameron Robinson

Not the way they figured it back then. They basically considered everyone who took part in the conception to have an equal share. So God + God + Mortal = 2/3 God offspring.

But lel mythology.

Connor Sullivan
Connor Sullivan

The more ancient the legend, the more powerful. Gilgamesh is the earliest written legend in human history. He's not a demigod above other demigods either, that's just based off the beliefs of the sumerians. If Gil has GoB, what reason is there for him to practice extensively in hand to hand combat? If regular swordspam fails, he can fall back on Enkidu and Ea, or bring out the bigger stuff from GoB.

David Torres
David Torres

That's the point though, Gil's legend is 100 years old. Being the oldest written legend in history doesn't really count for much if your legend was forgotten for most of the time it was written.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the 2/3 divinity is for real in Fate. I guess his hatred of the Gods hurt his divinity rating somehow...but I don't know if that means the gods took away his power or his distaste for them made him lose it. Or why didn't it weaken his NPs somehow if it hurt all his other stats?

Jayden Torres
Jayden Torres

Gil's legend is 100 years old
Just because we can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

William Richardson
William Richardson

But can his NP stand against Messiah? :^)

Nolan King
Nolan King

Being the oldest written legend in history doesn't really count for much if your legend was forgotten for most of the time it was written.
Actually it does as evidenced by Gilgamesh

Ethan Rodriguez
Ethan Rodriguez

Reminder those are Heracles' stats WITHOUT including the ME.

Lincoln Lopez
Lincoln Lopez

Do you actually know what a legend is?

The fact that he's got the oldest legend seems to only matter in that he's got the prototypes of all the NPs---as i pointed out, he's, you know, really pretty weak for a guy who's supposedly more than half god.

Isaiah Thomas
Isaiah Thomas

Being the oldest written legend in history doesn't really count for much if your legend was forgotten for most of the time it was written.
Kind of incorrect, it's pretty much said that they put in Heracles as the strongest famous heroic spirit and then they chose Gil as the strongest relatively unknown heroic spirit

Hunter Price
Hunter Price

Gil stats are higher in Zero and CCC. In FSN he is just nerfed by Kotomine.

Also he shows he is actually smart when he is not being horny or prideful. In other words he is careless.

Jose Martinez
Jose Martinez

really pretty weak for a guy who's supposedly more than half god.
Except he's not? Only the strongest heroes who specialise in melee combat can beat him in melee combat can beat him melee combat

Parker James
Parker James

Let's say 5 generations ago, his 32 great great grandparents were 11 humans and 21 gods, that would make him almost 2/3 God.

Jeremiah Gutierrez
Jeremiah Gutierrez

I think Nasu mentioned in an old interview, that Hercules was planned to be the original end boss and his 9 Lives trait was gonna be even more hax as it was gonna be shared with Illya.

This was back when Medusa was originally suppose to be Ayako since Ayako was originally intended to be the character design of Medusa.

I think Nasu said he just flipped random library books and ended up with Gilgamesh because it was one of the easiest names to spell from Sumerian mythology.

Oliver Thomas
Oliver Thomas

9 lives
It's 12 m8, that NP is called God Hand.
Nine Lives is something that he actually can't use as a berserker. But from what we know it can be considered utterly broken as a NP.
The Einzbern's kind of went full retard when they summoned him in his weakest class.

Grayson Allen
Grayson Allen

Do you actually know what a legend is?
Do you think Nasu cares?

Evan Gonzalez
Evan Gonzalez

Well, more by the Grail taint and his retarded prana source than by Kotomine.

Kotomine's not even providing prana.

You can't power King of Heroes level stats with a handful of orphans.

Parker Sullivan
Parker Sullivan

The Einzbern's kind of went full retard when they summoned him in his weakest class.
Blame Saber and Kerry for that

Carter Roberts
Carter Roberts

Shame they didn't know Heracles had a ''protector of lolis'' mindset before doing it

Kayden Brown
Kayden Brown

Nah B rank strength is no joke. Which is why it's baffling that Shirou managed to pin him down in close quarters. Gilgamesh is a shitty swordsman but even one glancing blow on Shirou's swords should have shattered his arm.

Mason Richardson
Mason Richardson

Which is why it's baffling that Shirou managed to pin him down in close quarters
Because he gains stat and skill buffs when he wields the NPs, literally the only reason he can keep up

Ayden Stewart
Ayden Stewart

I know, I actually tried to work it out one day, and you can get close but never exactly 2/3.

Jordan Turner
Jordan Turner

Shirou gains the power and skill to wield the weapon instantly when he grabs it, without gamebreaking buffs like that he simply can't keep up with Gilgamesh even when he's not in his top form. There's a lot more than just direct hard counter that allows Shirou to win the fight

Michael Sullivan
Michael Sullivan

Because he is hercules when using 9 Lives.

That is how UBW works, Shirou did not lift up that Axe Sword.

Hercules lifted up that axe sword of Shirou's.

Aaron Clark
Aaron Clark

Gilgamesh is a shitty swordsman
I wouldn't say that, he does fight with Saber in melee combat and keeps up. Shirou's UBW is simply unfair

Chase Cox
Chase Cox

Okay that makes sense, though I don't like the explanation. It's Emperor Time all over again.

Liam Roberts
Liam Roberts

Neither do I, the plot bends over backwards to allow Shirou to win the fight.

Brody Parker
Brody Parker

Oh, and also, he's an idiot. I mean, none of the servants outside of Medea or maybe Archer are what I would call good analytical thinkers, but he really takes the cake.

You see INT anywhere on that as a stat? Me neither.

Brayden Hernandez
Brayden Hernandez

Once again, divinity has nothing to do with direct physical power and neither does the power of one's soul. Why is this idea so hard for you to grasp? Heck, most demigods in legends weren't all that strong physically either. Zeus had countless bastards and even among them Herukles was ridiculously strong, with most not being actually known for any amazing feats of pure strength.

Christopher White
Christopher White

Gil's quite intelligent and wise. Problem his wisdom takes a nose dive when dealing with weak to average tier enemies since his hubris blinds his judgement.

Asher Roberts
Asher Roberts

be demi-god
get rekt by a japanese ginger because you're a spoiled shit who can't actually fight
said ginger also fucks you're waifu

Literally pay2win: the servant and on top of that a loser and a cuck.

What a joke of character.
gilfags will defend this.

Matthew Reed
Matthew Reed

Where his VN stats including the madness boost? Because from what I remember Illya never actually made him use it.

Aaron Bell
Aaron Bell

If wisdom takes a dive when its most needed, it's the same as not having it at all. It's like being Invisible Boy from Mystery Men.

Henry Wright
Henry Wright

He's strong because he has a counter to everything in his vault

but in practice, he has an ego problem and that gives him openings

Aiden Rodriguez
Aiden Rodriguez

He also can't react to what he doesn't know

If knew about Avalon he could probably counter that.

Anthony James
Anthony James

Okay bare with me I think I got this, 1 god fucks mortal and makes a half god, half god fucks mortal and makes quarter god, quarter god fucks mortal and makes 1/8th god, 1/8th god fucks another god and makes a 60 something% god.

That's roughly 2/3rds?

Sebastian Rivera
Sebastian Rivera

I wish Fate mythology was half as interesting as real world mythology.

Chase Reyes
Chase Reyes

The Epic of Gilgamesh may be the oldest written legend but it's sure as fuck not the oldest legend we know of. Dyēus Ph2tēr slaying a three-headed chthonic serpent to free the rain/moisture god is almost certainly much older. And the Epic of Gilgamesh itself is not a Sumerian work but an Akkadian compilation and partial expansion of earlier isolated Gilgamesh myths of Sumer.

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