Can Shirou kill Shikis?

Charles Jenkins
Charles Jenkins

Cause we all know he can kill servants.

All urls found in this thread:
http://imgur.com/a/cqzl3
https://twitter.com/mn_zaka/status/730004290467561472
https://youtu.be/0plnjolg53A?t=1m17s
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/914177/5c6277a9fd/
Jose Sanders
Jose Sanders

Which Shirou?

Ian Bailey
Ian Bailey

I want Shirou to drown in his ideals and die.

Nathan Hall
Nathan Hall

I want to have a threesome with ko-gil and shota shirou

William Butler
William Butler

He can kill them because they aren't immortal and they die when they are killed but he can't beat them in fight. Well at least T.Shiki, I'm not sure if Ryougi have stats to keep up with swordspam

John Edwards
John Edwards

Fuck off Archer

Noah Perez
Noah Perez

Shirou pls

Jace James
Jace James

I've never gotten the Shiki can't kill servants meme. Killing the originals of the servants located in the throne of heroes is unlikely, since he's not attacking those. But surely he could be able to kill the current incarnation of servants right in front of him, right?

Jonathan Bennett
Jonathan Bennett

Shiki can kill Shirou

Isaiah Gomez
Isaiah Gomez

When did Shirou become attractive?

Wyatt Wright
Wyatt Wright

autistically follow ideal that will probably leave you in despair.
let go of ideal, but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.
Why can't Shirou be normal?

Jordan Davis
Jordan Davis

I think the real question is can Angry Manjew kill Shikis?

Gabriel Kelly
Gabriel Kelly

shota shirou
Good taste

Isaiah Reed
Isaiah Reed

There is a fan book called Type-Moon Complex X where the Misaki crew go to Fuyuki. This is where the running joke/meme comes from

http://imgur.com/a/cqzl3

Brayden Flores
Brayden Flores

When he took his shirt off.

Fuck off, Archer.

Isaac Ortiz
Isaac Ortiz

got you senpai
https://twitter.com/mn_zaka/status/730004290467561472
let go of ideal, but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.
this is why sakura is shit and normal end is the best for HF

Justin Robinson
Justin Robinson

normal end is the best for HF
This, and I don't even hate Sakura.
It's just fits the story much, much better than the "True" ending.

Nicholas Miller
Nicholas Miller

>>141421419
let go of ideal, but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.
This literally never happens, nice headcanon:

Nobody dies after Shirou decides not to kill Sakura. The only ones that die after that are Shinji, Kirei and Zoken.

Next time read the VN instead of reading the Wikia and pretending to know what you're talking about.

Leo Stewart
Leo Stewart

fuck off wormslut, she killed also lots of other peope faggot

Levi White
Levi White

but basically sacrifice hundreds by not killing your girlfriend when you know you could have stopped it and chose not to.

The people that got killed by the Shadow were all BEFORE that. Jesus Sup Forums with all your preaching about secondaries and "read the VN xD" you sure as hell have never read it.

Daniel Morris
Daniel Morris

fuck off with that reddit tier meme pic
1.pic is out of context
2.pic is the shitty translation of crunchyshit

but i forgot Sup Forums is reddit 2.0 who can't use a fucking brain

Oliver Murphy
Oliver Murphy

Does Shirou have power over tautologies?

Ryder Morris
Ryder Morris

fuck off wormslut, she killed also lots of other peope faggot
Except that doesn't happen after Shirou spares her, it happens before.

Again, next time read the VN instead of taking shit from the wikia and pretending you've ever read it.

Hunter Davis
Hunter Davis

Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure I remember a scene where Shirou was watching the news and memorising the names of the victims that died, like he was trying to atone for his sin.
The point is that Shirou was completely prepared to do it, and chose that over the death of one person (Sakura).
He clearly feels guilty about it and refers to it as a "sin" many times too.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, if it wasn't for Shirou being prepared to sacrifice the many for the sake of one, he'd have no development from Fate Shirou, who wanted to save all without facing the reality that it wasn't possible.

Nolan Rivera
Nolan Rivera

she
The shadow is Sakura

Level E reader. Well, that's implying you've actually read it, which we all know you didn't.

The Shadow is AM taking Sakura's body when she goes to sleep, but you knew that right? because everyone that's not a secondary knows it.

Cooper Thomas
Cooper Thomas

To add to Direct quite from NLBW scene
The atonement lies here. I betrayed myself and sacrificed many lives

Asher Williams
Asher Williams

Are you sure? Because I'm pretty sure I remember a scene where Shirou was watching the news and memorising the names of the victims that died, like he was trying to atone for his sin.
Doesn't happen after he spares her. Irrelevant.

Doesn't happen after he decides not to kill her. Irrelevant.

And those lives were all but innocent so who cares, AM wasn't killing good people, it killed rapists and whatnot, we literally see it in the interludes. Zoken is the one that kills innocents.

Leo Kelly
Leo Kelly

Doesn't happen after he decides not to kill her
NLBW
Wat.

Gabriel Rogers
Gabriel Rogers

He's talking about the past you fucking retard.

William Kelly
William Kelly

But he's missing the point.
The point is still that Shirou himself believes he has "sacrificed many lives", which is as good as it being true as far as Shirou's morality and ideals are concerned. It makes so difference to that if people did die or not.

Nathan Gomez
Nathan Gomez

That's because people don't understand Shirou's character

In the fucking beginning of the story when you go to school with Sakura and see the police cars, then Issei tells you that people were killed by some sort of bladed weapon and he freaks out, he blames himself for not being able to help even though he wants to be a seigi no mikata.

Charles Stewart
Charles Stewart

Self Insert vs Self Insert

Angel Myers
Angel Myers

no
the Shadow is acting based on Sakura's subconsciousness

Avenger doesn't have a self of its own. It always needs a host.

Mason Lopez
Mason Lopez

Are you baiting?
It does happen after you decide to spare her.

After a while Shirou becomes so conflicted that you get the choice to try and kill Sakura in her sleep, except that if you do that Rider kills you instead.

Connor Baker
Connor Baker

Shiki is inhuman he can easily slice shirou down

Jordan Evans
Jordan Evans

no
the Shadow is acting based on Sakura's subconsciousness
Except it's literally said that the shadow takes control when she goes to speel.

And do you know what subconsciousness is? Because it seems that you don't.

Carson Cook
Carson Cook

And those lives were all but innocent so who cares, AM wasn't killing good people, it killed rapists and whatnot, we literally see it in the interludes.

yes in that interlude the Shadow kills rapists and killers.

next time Rin and Shirou discover that it ate a whole street's worth of people..

Matthew Garcia
Matthew Garcia

Shiki
Inhuman

I don't think he'd enjoy being called that.

Jeremiah Sanders
Jeremiah Sanders

It was obviously a street full of only rapist killers, user.

Justin Diaz
Justin Diaz

part of Sakura wishes that Saber wouldn't be around. guess what? the Shadow kills her

part of Sakura wishes that Shirou would be too injured to continue fighting. guess what? the Shadow takes one of his arms

Sakura herself says that part of her found the "dreams" pleasant.

and by HA we know that AM doesn't have a personality of its own. It needs a host to function.

Hudson Martinez
Hudson Martinez

You should stop projecting Shirou or you'll deplete your mana.

Elijah Bailey
Elijah Bailey

1.pic is out of context
2.pic is the shitty translation of crunchyshit
I think everyone in this thread knows that.
What's your point?

Jace Foster
Jace Foster

This has an anime?

Nicholas Ward
Nicholas Ward

He means OP can't use a fucking brain, got it?

Xavier King
Xavier King

Even Souichirou can kill Shikis, with the help of Medea's magic of course.
https://youtu.be/0plnjolg53A?t=1m17s

Angel Rogers
Angel Rogers

Toono Shiki, Toono SHIKI, Toono Shiki awakened to his family lineage, fake Toono Shiki, DID Ryougi Shiki, notDID Ryougi Shiki, VOID Shiki or another Shiki I forgot?

Asher Lee
Asher Lee

Go to bed, Archer.

Elijah Flores
Elijah Flores

Why is Archer such a fucking retard? Even if he ended up killing Shirou in F/SN, he's still going to be a CG, since the Throne or wherever Alaya keeps the guardians is outside of space time.

Joseph Young
Joseph Young

If at his lowest power, he could kill Tohno SHIKI and Ryougi Shiki, but could only beat Tohno Shiki at full strength. Void beats all.

Alexander Morris
Alexander Morris

Because Archer can't into lack of causality.

Alexander Jackson
Alexander Jackson

I am that pleb so please enlighten me.

Which shirou is the strongest...

Jace Smith
Jace Smith

HF Shirou if it's single combat and he's ready to burn himself out. Overall it will be UBW Shirou.

Jayden Torres
Jayden Torres

Could Fate Shirou keep pulling out Caliburn, or was it a one time thing? Because I can see Fate Shirou just master using Caliburn

Julian Edwards
Julian Edwards

Because he's desperate to kill himself user. Facts don't matter, he has no other purpose left so he'll try even if it's impossible.

Elijah Lewis
Elijah Lewis

Is there anything Fate Shirou could win at apart from being the worst Shirou?

Jaxon Price
Jaxon Price

Oh wow, you're so unique anon-chan! Not, fucking kill yourself, worthless garbage, people like you are the reason why the F/SN "fanbase" and Sup Forums is so shit nowadays.

Angel Stewart
Angel Stewart

Getting best girl

Henry Cruz
Henry Cruz

Well, he did probably get with Rin in LONDON sometime after the ending, but UBW Shirou also got that.

Joshua Sullivan
Joshua Sullivan

Why are some Sakurafags so obsessed with denying that Sakura did anything wrong whatsoever?
She'd be a shit-tier bland character if she was truly completely passive and blameless in the whole thing.

Nathan Flores
Nathan Flores

How many Shiki's are there?

Nicholas Garcia
Nicholas Garcia

Toshirou

Jonathan Russell
Jonathan Russell

Worst shounen protagonist of all time. Can't believe people like this asshole.

Joshua Wright
Joshua Wright

Well, he did probably get with Rin in LONDON sometime after the ending

This delusion

Rinfags are the worst.

Joseph Morales
Joseph Morales

Shounen protagonist
I don't see any Shounen mcs in this thread, who are you talking about?

Jason Diaz
Jason Diaz

Even Shirou knew that what she did was wrong. He just loved her in spite of it.

Jordan Adams
Jordan Adams

She'd be a shit-tier bland character if
She already is user

Josiah Phillips
Josiah Phillips

Well, she'd be much more shit

Hunter Peterson
Hunter Peterson

Didn't he even tell her he knows she's a terrible person at some point?

Samuel Collins
Samuel Collins

Big Brother Shirou

Jacob Hughes
Jacob Hughes

Shirou
Not Shonuen MC

Top kek, user.

David Wood
David Wood

Where's the shounen?

Christopher King
Christopher King

Unfortunately is right, Prisma Ilya alternate universe Shirou is the strongest...he won the grail war by himself

Logan Carter
Logan Carter

Unfortunately
Why shouldn't the Shirou who's living his life correctly be the strongest?

Andrew Hernandez
Andrew Hernandez

He's fanfiction tier

Gabriel Powell
Gabriel Powell

I don't like thing
Good to know

Aaron Garcia
Aaron Garcia

Designated Fate shitposting thread?

Who is best king and why is it Saber?

Hudson Davis
Hudson Davis

Why so harsh?

Colton Wright
Colton Wright

The real question is. Can Shiki rape Shirou? Because we know he can rape true ancestors.

William Robinson
William Robinson

you sure?

Angel Fisher
Angel Fisher

I like Kirei.

Kayden Lopez
Kayden Lopez

/v/

Jonathan Thompson
Jonathan Thompson

Shirou has a legit insane level of skill with a bow, we just never see him use it in the VN because he doesn't know how to trace swords as arrows like Archer can, so he can't even hurt Servants with them.

I don't think Shirou could take on Tohno in a straight fight unless he's got Archer's arm which makes him posthuman, but if he attacked Tohno from a long range with guns or bows he could definitely take him out because he was hitting Berserker's vital points with the arrows he used in the Saber vs. Berserker final battle in Fate, and Berserker was moving at insane velocities.

Shirou has amazing eyes and might even be able to catch Tohno if Tohno attempts to assassinate him, but once Tohno is in close, it's probably over and done regardless.

tl;dr Tohno wins in close combat, Shirou wins at distance combat

Ryougi isn't post-human, but I imagine she could still kick his ass in a sword fight since her mystic eyes would deal with his conceptual weapons just fine. Void Shiki would tear Shirou a new one of course. Shirou sniping would still take out Ryougi handily, don't know how Void would deal with a long distance opponent though.

tl;dr Shirou wins at distance combat again except maybe against Void who is kind of bullshit in every regard

Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson

Get this Fate/Trash off of my board.

Noah Barnes
Noah Barnes

He didn't give Seiba Avalon, which as Fate showed, could have easily cured her (just like it protected him). For that alone, HF Shirou is irredeemable and must die.

Jose Sullivan
Jose Sullivan

Shiki, Shiki and SHIKI

Evan Perry
Evan Perry

Tohno SHIKI, Nanaya Shiki, Ryougi Shiki (female personality), Ryougi SHIKI (male personality), and Ryougi Shiki (body's personality/in between personality)

William Brown
William Brown

normal end
You mean SLH

Jace Torres
Jace Torres

Since you're trying to be serious about this, then you should know Nasu already answered it. The two suffer mutual defeat. Shiki's head explodes and Shirou kills himself trough mana exhaustion.

The story starts changing once you look at different, stronger versions of Shiki and Shirou, and start removing restrictions. The ability to kill anything and the ability to create and use Noble Phantasms are both pretty strong. A lot of the time it'd probably be a pretty fair toss up.

Brandon Peterson
Brandon Peterson

I'd have to agree with that user. Shiki is ridiculously fast. Shirou is well above human ability but even he can barely keep up with the swings of Servants like Archer and Saber Alter, both of whom are stat-wise on the lower-average end of Agility. If it turns into a close-range knife fight Shirou's going to get butchered, and unlike when fighting Servants he can't even block or parry effectively since Shiki will destroy his projections in one hit.
The more distance there is between them, the more the advantage goes to Shirou.
Shirou does have a handful of close-mid range techniques that might best Shiki though. The Triple Crane Wings trick with Kanshou and Bakuya probably wouldn't be effective against Shiki, since again, Shiki would destroy the projections outright in one hit. But something like Nine Lives might be able to overwhelm him.

Nolan Flores
Nolan Flores

Nasu said Shiki kills Shirou everytime, then self destucts.

That's with and without self-desturction during the fight.

Jaxon Davis
Jaxon Davis

Why the fuck is Shiki so fast, anyway? It's been a while since I read Tsukihime, but I'm pretty sure his Nanaya blood just makes him really fucking hate non-humans, right? How does a dude with "anemia" keep up with a Dead Apostle?

Justin Ramirez
Justin Ramirez

Nanayas son, they were bread to keep up with monsters like Kouma, so they are pretty awesome and Shiki is basically the best one yet. If only he had finished his training and actually knew what he was doing.

Robert Harris
Robert Harris

If they're both dead in the end, it's still a mutual defeat. Regardless of who goes first. If we remove the self-destruct then yeah, Shiki has an advantage. But then it'd only be fair to give Shirou more advanced tracing/less sword zits/etc... And then he can just NP spam or snipe from range. Shiki is fast. But Gae Bolg or other NP's can still kill him.

I agree. Shirou's definitively at a severe disadvantage in terms of speed. He only really manages to fight people like Alter/Gil/Archer/etc because he steals abilities and skill via tracing. If Shirou uses his traced fighting skills long enough to survive in order to use some Noble Phantasms active ability or skill, he could win, but it's a real coin toss not in his favor. If he camps at range like Archer did in F/HA his chances go up greatly because that was just broken.

Jose Baker
Jose Baker

Nanaya blood doesn't do much, but Nanaya inbreeding gives him:
-not-magic magic eyes
-superhuman strength
-superhuman speed
-high tier magic circuits
-assassin instinct
-superhuman durability
-superhuman rape power
-a dick the size of Kohaku's forearm

Austin Rogers
Austin Rogers

Shirou's got nothing. Nasu said Shiki would kill everything Shirou throws at him and close in on Shirou from range.
Gae Bolg cannot be activated from range unless the user is Cu and he is powered by a grail.

Asher Baker
Asher Baker

A lot of this is untrue. One of Shiki's biggest issues is his shitty endurance and human limitations. He just uses absurd speed and his eyes.
Shiki and the Nanaya's were some crazy ass demon hunting assassins that have flash step/shunshin shit. Incredibly fast bursts of speed likened to teleportation. Shiki basically just dodges shit until he has a solid chance to get a kill via his eyes. He's actually pretty shit in terms of skill (though in Melty Blood he's actually trained and whatnot). He just has a few flash step techniques that in conjunction with his eyes make fighting skills unimportant.

Nicholas Powell
Nicholas Powell

he

Cooper Morgan
Cooper Morgan

Flash step, really? I thought F/SN was supposed to be the shounenshit entry in the Nasuverse.

Parker Wright
Parker Wright

It's not untrue.
In Tsukihime, he's running on half life force and someone is always munching on his soul, yet he's still able to kill Nero Chaos with half of his torso.

Liam James
Liam James

Nasu has always liked shounenshit, even in Tsukihime. What did you think Shiki was doing when he teleports all the time in Melty.

Ryder Diaz
Ryder Diaz

The funny thing is that he does everything at half power in Tsukihime and with half-assed training, I really wish we could have seen what Shiki could have done if he was properly trained.

Isaiah Long
Isaiah Long

He also stated that circumstances would change if Shirou were capable of higher mana discharges. I very clearly stated in that post that I was talking about a theoretical buffed/future Shirou vs a non self-destructing Shiki.

If Shirou becomes capable of non-suicidal Excaliblasts or other higher tier NP discharges he wins. Or if he's not, then he just ensures mutual defeat and death.

Christian Gray
Christian Gray

Pseudo-Servant Shirou when?

We already have pseudo-servant Waver, Rin and Sakura.

I need my Shirou. no homo

Cooper James
Cooper James

A fully trained Shiki would be absolutely terrifying. Just look at Void Ryougi Shiki.

Cooper Nelson
Cooper Nelson

that pic
Prisma Illya Shirou is going necrosis already? Wow, overprojected much?

Logan Cox
Logan Cox

Shirou is not and will never be capable of that.
Extra outright said that he could never be capable of using such a move outside of the Moon Cell. Not even as a CG.

Besides, at his natural best, Shirou is Magus Killer level.
At Shiki's best showing (Satsujinki), he runs over a Burial Agency level mage like she was nothing and is killing DAs left and right.

Levi Nelson
Levi Nelson

Prisma Illya Shirou manages to project Divine Constructs, which shouldn't be possible past near/fully suicidal attacks. He's easily the strongest Shirou we've seen.

Gabriel Turner
Gabriel Turner

We already have Archer, why bother? I want Pseudo-Servant Shiki instead and Arc for GO.

Aaron Nelson
Aaron Nelson

I watched both season of Prisma Illya Zwei and both were slow paced and shit, then I read the manga and they added a FUCKTON of filler.

Now I was waiting for 3rei! anime but maybe SILVER LINK will do the same shit, so I'll read the manga right away.

Nicholas Miller
Nicholas Miller

We need more Shirou clones. Too many Setantas and Arturias.

Joseph Rivera
Joseph Rivera

I'll say this again: It was a theoretical situation. Stop getting so worked up.

And Shirou projects an (admittedly imperfect) Excalibur in Heavens Feel, and Archer threatens to do so in UBW and can do so in Extra. Even an imperfect Excalibur would be more than enough to kill Shiki, it'd just kill Shirou too.

Also, I'm going to assume you meant DAA's. There's nothing special about normal Dead Apostles. And only high tier Burial Agency members are worth noting. Shirou fights and occasionally beats Servants, who are generally regarded as stronger than most DAA's. What's you're point? Stop being a numbnuts fanwanker and just admit that it's not a clear cut win for Shiki.

At the end of the day, they'll both be dead the vast majority of the time.

Noah Bennett
Noah Bennett

Not even as a CG
Counter Guardians pretty much get infinite prana when on duty you dumb faggot. And if you're talking a CG summoned as a Servant; a masterless, dying Archer threatens to use a suicidal Excalibur projection. And Shirou uses one in HF Normal. It kills him, but he does it while half dead and 90% retarded. Stop making shit up.

Liam Peterson
Liam Peterson

Nasu retcon'd that in CM3. No Excaliburs, unless you exist in a dat world with different rules.

Nasu also said (think it was in the UBW anime packet) that Shirou only wins against servants (ever), when Shirou is in his best form and the servant is in their worst form. And that Avalon Kerry and CS F/Z Kirei, both stronger than Magus Killer Kerry and natural Shirou, were as strong as a low end servant or a Dead Apostle.

Tyler Foster
Tyler Foster

data*

Angel Reyes
Angel Reyes

He projects it a few times reliably
Fate Shirou can project Avalon, and has high-tier regeneration. Defensively he's best Shirou.

Ethan Gomez
Ethan Gomez

Doesn't work without Saber contract.

Landon Foster
Landon Foster

Because she's just perfect in general.

Adrian Wood
Adrian Wood

Fate Shirou loses his ability to project Avalon and his regeneration after Saber disappears, though.

Lucas Wilson
Lucas Wilson

Crap, I forgot that detail. Well, if we're talking in-route, Fate Shirou best defense, HF best offense, UBW best all-around.

Aiden Roberts
Aiden Roberts

A bit late, but I haven't played Melty yet. Haven't done Kagetsu Tohya either. Been waiting until the semester ends and I have some free time.

Logan Hernandez
Logan Hernandez

Prisma Illya Shirou
Prisma Illya
canon
Might as well say shiki can kill servants filthy casual

Jaxon Perez
Jaxon Perez

Nasu says a whole lot of shit that doesn't make sense with what's established in his own shit.
He says Unlimited Blade Works wouldn't be effective against any Servant but Gilgamesh, even though it's blatantly just a less practical version of Gate of Babylon which is enough to make Gil a fucking monster.
What the fuck is any Caster or Assassin going to do against a storm of -slightly- less power Noble Phantasms coming at them from all directions? Archer fucks Caster in the same goddamned route with a burst of projections without even having to invoke it.
Sure top-tier Servants like Heracles and Cu have ways around it, but it's totally ridiculous to argue an "average" Servant wouldn't get butchered.

Nathan Wright
Nathan Wright

Grand Order is canon
people still pretend the Nasuverse has any respect for consistency
Everything is canon you fagtron

Eli Sullivan
Eli Sullivan

Ryougi already killed 99 servants so I'm pretty sure she would shit on Shirou

Luis Bell
Luis Bell

Just play Metly, come for the story and stay for the enjoyable fighting game.

Ryder Howard
Ryder Howard

I think the primary reason why it isn't useful against most servants is due to the long chant time in order for it to manifest and shirou can't use it for that long and when he uses it, it completely exhausts him and Rin's mana supply.

Caster is caught by surprise by Archer, partly due to her own stupidity, so I don't take that as UBW being super strong.

The reason GoB is so strong is because it can wear down opponents in a near endless war of attrition before Gil can invoke a specific one to finish them and engaging on Gil is difficult as hell because of it.

David Cooper
David Cooper

Yeah, it never made sense to me why Nasu says Archer's swordspams wouldn't be as effective against other Servants. It's no different from Gil firing less powerful NPs, and that still works for him pretty well.

And literally infinite swords from every single direction in a constant rain, with the ability to instantly arm himself, seems like a pretty massive powerup against anyone.

Brayden Howard
Brayden Howard

When has Gilgamesh ever defeated anyone with swordspam that didn't involve a surprise attack or supplementing the swordspam with something else? When has it ever been the deciding factor in his victory?

Swordspam is just stage one Gilgamesh. It's pretty much just an opening act. It's the weakest attack he can use. Any decent hero can can survive it.

William Ross
William Ross

Please play on steam. I don't want to be alone.

Joshua Howard
Joshua Howard

Any decent hero can can survive it.
I guess that means Lancelot isn't even decent, since it's stated in F/Z that he probably wouldn't survive a second volley.

Grayson Rivera
Grayson Rivera

Not him but MBAACC (version on Steam) doesn't really have much of a story it's focused more on the actual gameplay

The older Melty Blood games are pretty story heavy, you can just watch them on youtube though

Levi Cox
Levi Cox

UBW isn't slightly weaker, it is a lot weaker. It is far more bursty, because Archer can't actually sustain any swordspam. The RM is almost painfully hard to employ.

Also, Gil is smarter, stronger, faster, and has access to way more, even when he's not serious. UBW only counters GoB when UBW does the exact same thing as GoB. If either move off that script, UBW loses.

If I remember right, Caster got blindsided by Archer, which is why she couldn't do any thing. Dropping an unsuspecting opponent with a surprise attack is all well and good, but actual combat is completely different

Adam Perez
Adam Perez

Just tried to play right now, and no matches. Is the game so dead? Weren't they going to patch this with rollback?

Gavin Rogers
Gavin Rogers

UBW is actually as strong as GoB when it comes down to offense. Shirou actually has access to the techniques the original wielder used as seen with his fights against Saber and Berserker.

Liam Bailey
Liam Bailey

long chant time in order for it to manifest

"I am the bone of my sword
unknown to death nor known to life
UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"

Archer got it pretty fucking short if you ask me.
I can say it in less than 2 seconds, with Archer's superhuman speed he could probably say it in 1 or less. Shirou will get there eventually too.

Owen Johnson
Owen Johnson

Apparently there's ~300 players. In my experience, there's usually a few rooms in the evening/late night, and usually a lot on Fridays.

And I don't know when that patch is coming. They promised it, but that doesn't mean much.

Robert Morales
Robert Morales

That was a Gil who was focused on the situation.

Word of Nasu is that mindlessly spamming wouldn't kill any combat able hero, but Gil himself is what makes the difference.

Alexander Sanchez
Alexander Sanchez

superhuman speed

That's not really a factor when it comes to incantations. Archer can't use High Speed Incantations.

Nathan Hernandez
Nathan Hernandez

If it gets the patch then it would become the best fighting game on Steam, even better than Xrd. So really they have to bring it.

Zachary Thompson
Zachary Thompson

and has access to way more
That couldn't possibly be more wrong. UBW has the contents of GoB (save Ea) and whatever other NPs Archer's recorded in his career as a CG.

Dylan Howard
Dylan Howard

He can move his lips and tongue faster. That's gotta help.
Medea's speed is because of the language she uses, and it's actually instant.

Still, Archer's version is really fucking short, and he can chant while fighting too.

Anthony Walker
Anthony Walker

When you are going against others with superhuman strength, those 2 seconds make a difference in comparison to being able to near instantly project a phantasm into your hand.

A caster servant could erect some magical barrier to deflect or at least slow down the volley.

Knight class servants usually have high enough stats that the volley is meaningless.

Berserkers are usually durable/quick enough that the swords will only slow them down.

Riders are agile enough to dodge most of the time.

Assassins lose in direct combat anyways.

It would more slow down an offense than kill a servant that is somewhat decent.

Jaxson Morris
Jaxson Morris

Archer could always, y'know, just start the incantation when they're not face-to-face. He's supposed to be called "Archer" for a reason.

Justin Stewart
Justin Stewart

GoB already has every weapon known to man though

Wyatt Bailey
Wyatt Bailey

Its completely right, read UBW's entry and notice that "only close combat" clause.

Oliver King
Oliver King

I'll play the Steam version once I've played the ones with the actual story in them.

Christian Young
Christian Young

Why would he do that when he could just use his bow and spam arrows+broken phantasms which are more likely to do serious damage even to servants with strong defenses?

I assume we are talking about the reality marble portion.

Ethan Roberts
Ethan Roberts

To be fair, the Steam version has story, it's just in the arcade mode and it's not the focus of this one. And you have to play all the arcade stories to get everything.

Ethan Campbell
Ethan Campbell

A caster servant could erect some magical barrier to deflect or at least slow down the volley.
Archer has anti magic weapons in stock.
Knight class servants usually have high enough stats that the volley is meaningless.
No. K&B, C- rank projections, can cut through knight-class servants just fine, so any C or higher volley should be able to skewer them.
Berserkers are usually durable/quick enough that the swords will only slow them down.
Quick, maybe, durable enough not to be pierced by B or C rank NPs, no, unless you're Heracles or have a similar kind of hax.
Riders are agile enough to dodge most of the time.
Not all riders, you're just thinking of Medusa.

Lincoln Price
Lincoln Price

Obviously Gate of Babylon is stronger and way more versatile and efficient, but Nasu is still hugely understating Unlimited Blade Work's effectiveness.
Even putting aside the "infinite storm of blades" aspect, something as basic as the terrain change/repositioning that comes with a Reality Marble could put Archer/Shirou at a huge advantage both against weaker opponents who are relying on attacking from a position of strength and stronger opponents who they can't match in close combat.

It's not like they're only relying on swordspam either. Even against a Servant it couldn't kill outright, being constantly pelted by Noble Phantasms is going to be a major distraction while dealing with Archer/Shirou, highly skilled swordsman in their own right, or can buy them time to use their variety of powerful ranged attacks to finish the target off.

any decent hero
Between Gilgamesh being such a common antagonist and the generally high powerlevels in most Wars, among Servants we see there's a disproportional amount of Servants actually equipped to deal with swordspam and ranged techniques in general. Not every Servant has nigh-invulnerable skin, or Projection from Projectiles, or "was really really super good at fighting so they can just grab everything", or the Hide of the Nemean Lion. Because someone just raining death on people wouldn't be a very interesting story.

Kayden Gonzalez
Kayden Gonzalez

Because even if he wanted a close range encounter, the other servant would generally pop off their NP and kill him if he were that obvious.

Levi Thompson
Levi Thompson

Unlimited Blade Works has "close combat armaments"; anything reasonably close to the concept of "sword" that it embodies.
Gate of Babylon has damn near everything.
Shirou can't project ancient Indian spaceships, or Hades' Cap of Invisibility.
Gil just doesn't usually use those things because mongrels aren't worth the effort.

Michael Martin
Michael Martin

Saber survived Gate of Babylon in every single encounter. Gilgamesh always had to use Gate of Babylon in conjunction with close-range combat against Saber. Swordspam alone was never enough against her.

So anyone who's of a similar or greater skill level would be able to perform similarly, I'd imagine.

Owen Adams
Owen Adams

UBW isn't GoB. He can't re-position the launch point and he isn't skilled enough to fight in the midst of a swordspam anyways.

Wyatt Evans
Wyatt Evans

Yeah, but I came for the story. The gameplay is just a nice extra for when I'm done. And aren't there like two versions that together have pretty much the entire story in them?

Tyler Lee
Tyler Lee

No. K&B, C- rank projections, can cut through knight-class servants just fine, so any C or higher volley should be able to skewer them.

I more meant that knight class servants have high enough agility and endurance and are usually experienced enough as heroes that it more serves as an inconvenience

Quick, maybe, durable enough not to be pierced by B or C rank NPs, no, unless you're Heracles or have a similar kind of hax.
I'd have to say that Spartacus from apocrypha was overall fairly average and UBW would only make him stronger.

Not all riders, you're just thinking of Medusa.

Would Astolfo be able to handle the sword spam? Iskander would have a rough time with it because he is slow and his reality marble is weaker than Archer's.

Nasu is under rating it for sure, but I still don't think it will be a deciding factor against the "average servant" (I hate the term because no servant is really average and everyone has a different perception of what average means).

Juan Wilson
Juan Wilson

I hope you're not under the impression Arturia is just a "decent" hero. She's a top-tier swordsman and has her "Instinct" bullshit on top of it. She stood in the middle of Tsubame Gaeshi and came out unscathed.

He can't re-position the launch point
If you're talking about launching swords within it, there is no "launch point". The weapons are anywhere at any time they are needed. That's why it can beat Gate of Babylon; the weapons from Gate of Babylon have travel time.
If you're talking about projection in general, Archer rains down swords from the ceiling at least twice, to surprise kill Caster and to trap Rin. They sure didn't come out of his hand.
and he isn't skilled enough to fight in the midst of a swordspam anyways
Shirou fighting Gil in the midst of both of their swordspam would suggest otherwise.

Blake Nelson
Blake Nelson

anyone who's of a similar or greater skill level would be able to perform similarly
Too bad Saber is a top tier servant. She's probably Grand Saber material.
With a good master like Rin or Dark Sakura she was unstoppable.

Jace Peterson
Jace Peterson

Without the RM, he cannot do something like shooting at him from the side while attacking the front. He's only capable of shooting using his vantage point.

He wasn't fighting Gil in the midst of the swords, he was suppressing the swords from entering the fray so that he could attack. The swords never came near him because they wer positioned that way, which could only happen inside the RM.
You are suggesting Shirou start a swordspam, then enter that swordspam to fight someone more skilled than he is, which is suicide.

Angel Moore
Angel Moore

So, what's the catchphrase of HF?

Hudson Powell
Hudson Powell

Fuck ideals, I want dirty, loose wormpussy.

Xavier White
Xavier White

ILYA..? ILYA ILYA ILYAAAAAAAAAA

Christopher Gonzalez
Christopher Gonzalez

Without the RM, he cannot do something like shooting at him from the side while attacking the front
Archer made swords rain vertically on Rin in UBW. That's a different direction from his usual shooting, so your argument is baseless.
Also, even his normal arrows seek their target, curve in midair and all that shit, as proven by the anime, so swords could probably do the same or more.

Liam Sullivan
Liam Sullivan

as proven by the anime
Don't need to reach there user, that already happens in Hollow Ataraxia

Julian Gutierrez
Julian Gutierrez

But Hunting is used with sniping. Would it work with swordspam?

Elijah Morris
Elijah Morris

YOU KEEP UP WITH ME!

Christopher King
Christopher King

If you shoot from above yourself, you still utilize your own vantage point.

Jordan Price
Jordan Price

Is there enough budget in the world to do the last days of Heaven's Feel justice?

Nathaniel Moore
Nathaniel Moore

Miura is in charge of the script IIRC, so he'll fuck up HF too.

Man, I really hope he fuck ups HF, I wouldn't stand UBW getting 2 shitty adaptations and HF getting one flawless right away.

Jonathan Clark
Jonathan Clark

Fuck, when I read that scene the first time it broke my heart, no pun intended.
Illya was the true heroine of the route, no questions asked.
To think Nasu tried so fucking hard to bring out the feels with Sakura's sob story with no success, and yet with something as simple and pure as Illya's selfless sacrifice he brought manly tears to my eyes...

Noah Sanchez
Noah Sanchez

If you shoot from above yourself
You do that and you kill yourself.
Archer shot giant swords perfectly vertically from above Rin, not above himself. And, no, she was not close to his hypothetical "vantage point".

Ian Turner
Ian Turner

Is it even possible to properly adapt a multi-route visual novel without fucking it up?

Eli Gonzalez
Eli Gonzalez

I'm writing like shit, time to go to sleep.

Brody Diaz
Brody Diaz

Miura is in charge of the script
Wew, good thing I didn't let myself have any hope it would be good.
Can't wait for Nine Lives Blade Works to turn from one of the most intense moments in the story to a ten second flash of hot blood.
At least I probably won't get angry until the fight with Kirei and Illya's sacrifice get shit on.

Ryder Anderson
Ryder Anderson

Ufo is doing fine so far.
If they don't fuck up the HF movies they will be one route away from nailing the whole Fate franchise.

Mason Walker
Mason Walker

Kouma says that he'll surpass Kiri eventually, Kiri could rip demons apart with his hands.

Levi Powell
Levi Powell

i loved that comic the fights were just so shit with people just standing there dazed and getting wrecked

Jason Johnson
Jason Johnson

Nanayas, why are they so bullshit?

Zachary Rivera
Zachary Rivera

At least we have Heaven's Feel 2: Imouto Boogaloo a few years down the road.

If you have the opportunity to adopt each of them individually, absolutely.
The main problem with Ufo's adaptation (aside from the artsyle) was they largely ignored the introspection/monologuing that both explained and enhance a lot of what was going on in UBW.
Heaven's Feel doesn't have that problem as much since there's a lot more character interaction an external conflict/dialogue as opposed to the mostly internal conflict in UBW, but the bigger issue is Heaven's Feel relies heavily on a handful of scenes so there's a lot less room for fuckups.

Connor Fisher
Connor Fisher

They're all bunch of inbred superhumans, because that makes fucking sense.

He can also make a pact with Len, that would kill any decent magus.

Jaxon Collins
Jaxon Collins

So how come Nasu blew his load on making the Tsukihime cast so strong, and made the Fate cast into babbies by comparison? Isn't the usual method to always make the next installment more stronker to keep the shounenshitheads interested?

Jacob Cox
Jacob Cox

Only Arc is really strong.
Ciel can only fight servants defensively, but never defeat one, and Akiha, Kohaku and Hisui are shit even compared to normal magi.

Joshua Reed
Joshua Reed

Akiha could kill Rin by literally looking at her.

Christian Myers
Christian Myers

You seem to put a lot of stock on the idea that Archer could only have attacked Rin from an angle not based on his own position.

Unfortunately, the fact he only seems to use such an ability outside of his RM against someone much much weaker than him, seems to suggest that he cannot actually use it in combat.

Which supports my assertion that he cannot shoot from a vantage point that is not based on him in actual combat, disabling his ability to flank without applying his RM, the tactic you suppose would make UBW not shit.

David Morris
David Morris

It's almost as if powerlevels are completely irrelevant and every Nasu action story is about how the underdog wins in the end even if it kills him

Carter King
Carter King

Akiha is shit compared to normal magi

I'm a secondary and can't stop talking bullshit

Cameron Rogers
Cameron Rogers

Akiha
Shit
Overall enhanced physiology
Can kill people just by looking at them
Can envelop an entire school in her power

She would beat the shit out of Rin.

Alexander Morales
Alexander Morales

She is. Servants would rape her and even some normal magi could beat her depending on their powers.

Jack Foster
Jack Foster

I assume that his swords are 75% compared to Gil's. Enough to deflect all of Gil's weapon but not enough to damage any servant.

Jacob Wood
Jacob Wood

And Rin coud beat the shit out of her just as easily. One of her gems alone has enough power to blow up a whole mansion, and not even Heracles with his God hand and massive endurance could resist her magic.

Christian Green
Christian Green

Servants would rape her
Same to everyone in Fate cast. What's your fucking point?

and even some normal magi could beat her depending on their powers.
No they couldn't, her body is barely even human anymore. Her hair is beyond OP and it's even faster than Shiki.

Oliver Walker
Oliver Walker

What part of "can kill you with a look" don't you understand?

It is literally impossible for Rin to beat Akiha on the draw. Even Shiki could barely dodge her attacks, and he has inbred instincts and chuuni legs.

Michael Wilson
Michael Wilson

Rin would die instantly to the OHKO instant attack.

Akiha can kill her just by seeing her. Rin has to cast a spell.

Juan Phillips
Juan Phillips

Even Shiki could barely dodge her attacks, and he has inbred instincts and chuuni legs.
Shiki was not at his peak like in the Ciel route and even he could dodge Akiha, there's your answer. Rin with reinforcement on her legs outspeeds him.

Akiha can kill her just by seeing her. Rin has to cast a spell.
The gems make the cast time literally instant, didn't you read her battle with Caster?
Even if Akiha attacked first, Rin could blow the whole place up with her dying breath. And if servants get killed from her gems, Akiha sure as hell dies from them too.
Not to mention with prep time Rin wins 10 out of 10 battles by erecting a defensive barrier and then blowing the whole stage up.

James Roberts
James Roberts

He have better stats than his father. Kiri could rip demon hybrids apart with his bare hands.

Aiden Stewart
Aiden Stewart

In the time it took for Rin to pull out a gem and throw it, Akiha can kill her five times over. Akiha doesn't have to move or even speak to kill someone. She just has to look at them.

Also, Shiki had several advantages going for him in that battle: It was dark, the terrain was advantageous for him, he was too fast for Akiha to keep track of in the dark, and, most important, he had Spider Sense and could literally see her attacks and kill them with his knife. Rin might be comparable in the speed department, but she doesn't have Shiki's instincts, nor can she see or kill Akiha's Origami.

The entire issue here is that Akiha's power works on the speed of sight. Even if Rin used gandr, which is literally the fastest attack she has requiring no incantation and only needing her to raise her arm up and point, she'd STILL be outsped by Akiha because all she has to do is simply LOOK at Rin in order to kill her. That's it. No other movements, no incantations. All she needs to do is open her eyes and look at Rin. She's almost as dangerous as Asagami Fujino.

Adam Hernandez
Adam Hernandez

One of her gems alone has enough power to blow up a whole mansion
Is that before or after she gets impaled through the chest without knowing what the hell happened?

Shiki was not at his peak like in the Ciel route and even he could dodge Akiha, there's your answer.
Nobody's talking about Ciel route, next time read the VN retard.

Even if Akiha attacked first, Rin could blow the whole place up with her dying breath.
So Rin can cast magic without a heart?What is she? Cu Chulainn?

And if servants get killed from her gems, Akiha sure as hell dies from them too.
None of them ever get injured by her gems, Berserker did because somehow it was A rank, power is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Rank. Remember those A rank wolves? I'm pretty sure Kiritsugu butchered the same wolves when he saved Irisviel. I guess Kiritsugu can take Berserker.

Not to mention with prep time Rin wins 10 out of 10 battles by erecting a defensive barrier and then blowing the whole stage up.
With prep time
Same thing applies for Akiha then you fucktard.

Henry Cook
Henry Cook

not enough to damage any Servant
cuts Gil's goddamned arm off
You don't need to assume anything. Projected Noble Phantams are one Rank down from the base. Gil's "original" Noble Phantasms are one Rank up from the derivatives possessed by other heroes. They still mutually destroy each other because Rank barely means anything aside from broad strokes comparisons and the few times they do mean something like with God Hand.
For the record, Kanshou and Bakuya, really shitty C- Rank swords, are enough for Shirou to cut Saber Alter in half through her armor.
Knight of Honor lets Lancelot turn mundane shit into D Rank Noble Phantasms that can very easily kill a Servant and clash with Excalibur.

Being a Noble Phantasm, even a projection of one, means something. Every weapon in Unlimited Blade Works is potentially deadly to any Servant without exceptional protections, such as Gilgamesh's Golden Armor and Berserker's God Hand.

Carter Rodriguez
Carter Rodriguez

Rin with reinforcement on her legs outspeeds him.
You're a moron. Rin with reinforcement top speed was 50 km/h. Shiki moved faster than eyes can track
Your legs really are amazingly fast. It isn't that you are hiding your body behind anything, you're just moving faster than my eyes can track.

Gabriel Thomas
Gabriel Thomas

In the time it took for Rin to pull out a gem and throw it, Akiha can kill her five times over
Plundering takes time. It's only instakill for normal humans, moron.

Is that before or after she gets impaled through the chest without knowing what the hell happened?
Why do you assume Akiha finds Rin first and not the other way around?

Nobody's talking about Ciel route, next time read the VN retard.
I said Shiki wasn't at his peak like in the Ciel route when he fought Akiha. LKearn how to read.

So Rin can cast magic without a heart?What is she? Cu Chulainn?
Akiha doesn't get an instant kill on Rin, her magic only insta-kills normal humans.

Berserker did because somehow it was A rank, power is irrelevant and has nothing to do with Rank
You are a moron. All A rank attacks all have massive power to begin with. A mere E rank punch is already ten times as powerful as a peak human's. And Berserker has a massive endurance stat on top of God Hand, so the rank ins't the only factor but the amount of damage also is.

Same thing applies for Akiha then you fucktard.
Akiha can't prep for shit, she's only good at doing damage. She can't reinforce herself, can't put up a bounded field, can't set up traps.

Your legs really are amazingly fast. It isn't that you are hiding your body behind anything, you're just moving faster than my eyes can track.
Tracking an object moving at 50km/h in front of your face and around you it's almost impossible. It gets easier with distance, but at close range you can't follow it.
Also, maybe Akiha's eyes are slow as fuck, maybe it's Nasu using hyperboles as always, we don't have the numbers on Shiki's speed.

Elijah Sanders
Elijah Sanders

That's because Shiki is just half trained, and is trying to copy what he remembers seeing Kiri do that one time.

Jayden Torres
Jayden Torres

We also just got Kiritsugu and Irisviel.

Bentley Ramirez
Bentley Ramirez

You have no idea what you're talking about. Akiha can Impale people with het hair. She doesn't even need to use the curse.

And she did kill Ciel really fucking fast in the manga so your point is just retarded.

Joshua Walker
Joshua Walker

Plundering takes time. It's only instakill for normal humans, moron.
You have no basis on that. Shiki who have high spiritual defence (as said in Jougan description) got fried in less than second

Evan Perry
Evan Perry

Plundering takes time. It's only instakill for normal humans, moron.
There has never been a single instance where plundering took time.

Why do you assume Akiha finds Rin first and not the other way around?
Akiha has AOE tracking that allows her to find people she can't see.

I said Shiki wasn't at his peak like in the Ciel route when he fought Akiha. LKearn how to read.
Doesn't matter. Lag time only exists at night.

Akiha doesn't get an instant kill on Rin, her magic only insta-kills normal humans.
Roa

Akiha can't prep for shit, she's only good at doing damage. She can't reinforce herself, can't put up a bounded field, can't set up traps.
She doesn't need to reinforce herself because her toughness is always on, but she can spread her hair to detect and entrap everything around her, which is way better than what Rin can do.

Tracking an object moving at 50km/h in front of your face and around you it's almost impossible. It gets easier with distance, but at close range you can't follow it.
Also, maybe Akiha's eyes are slow as fuck, maybe it's Nasu using hyperboles as always, we don't have the numbers on Shiki's speed.
You fucking know this is reaching.

Leo Hill
Leo Hill

Akiha can Impale people with het hair
Normal people. Her edge is her plundering magic, not her fucking hair stab.

manga
Kill yourself.

Juan Torres
Juan Torres

You are a moron. All A rank attacks all have massive power to begin with. A mere E rank punch is already ten times as powerful as a peak human's. And Berserker has a massive endurance stat on top of God Hand, so the rank ins't the only factor but the amount of damage also is.

Secondary, you have no idea what you're talking about right? Stats have nothing to do with Attack rank.

Saber outright says that even if an attack can blow the planet if it's not A rank it will not bypass god hand.

Just fuck off.

Jose Moore
Jose Moore

You do realize Akiha is a half demon right you inbred fuck? Rin's strenghtening magic is a joke.

Christian Butler
Christian Butler

Not only is she a half-demon she is the "lord" of demon hybrids. She keeps the others in the Tohno family in check until she goes out of control. Kouma survived having his neck almost entirely severed from the back by Nanaya

What is Rin lord of other than "pleasing old men for money"?

Kevin Davis
Kevin Davis

When did I said God Hand could be affected by anything less than A rank?
I'm saying A rank attacks do massive damage on their own, fucking moron.
1- If Rin bypassed God Hand then her gems are A rank or higher.
2- If her gems are A rank, then her destructive potential is massive, since we know even an E rank attack is at least ten times stronger than anything a peak human can do.
Refer to pic related if you still don't get it, retard.

Camden Bennett
Camden Bennett

Plundering is said to be weak against the likes of Arcueid.

I seriously hope you're not comparing Rin to Arcueid.

Landon Thomas
Landon Thomas

Stop applying the Servant ranks to normal humans, they don't translate.

God hand doesn't care if it is on the servant scale, just that, in its natural scale, it is equivalent to or greater than A.

Brandon Gray
Brandon Gray

Mistery is not the same as power.

Secondaries won't even learn that, jesus christ.

Thomas Perry
Thomas Perry

That chart is for STATS you fucking mongoloid.

What matters against god Hand is the mistery being A rank, I already told you it has nothing to do with stats.

Cooper Adams
Cooper Adams

Akihafags BTFO

Brody Bailey
Brody Bailey

That chart is saying that -in broad strokes- someone with B Rank Agility is twice as fast as someone with D Rank Agility.
Noble Phantasm Ranks are a completely different scale and system than Parameter/Stats Ranks.
Claiming things work that way is a gross misrepresentation.

Rule Breaker is a C Rank Noble Phantasm.
Kanshou and Bakuya are C- Rank Noble Phantasms.
Which one would you rather have to defend yourself?

Blake Murphy
Blake Murphy

Tracking an object moving at 50km/h in front of your face and around you it's almost impossible. It gets easier with distance, but at close range you can't follow it.
He didn't move sideways to break her line of sight, she was in front of him and moved back so fast he instantly disappeared from Akiha's vision.

Robert Gutierrez
Robert Gutierrez

bout threefiddy

Josiah Wright
Josiah Wright

Then the mystery bypasses God Hand but can't do shit against Herc's massive endurance stat if it doesn't pack a good punch.

Robert King
Robert King

Don't bother he's a newfag that doesn't even know how NPs are measured.
___fags xD

You're retarded, samefag. People are correcting you because you're a secondary spouting false information you read from the wikia

Chase Young
Chase Young

Way to miss the point faggots, the Tsukihime cast is not massively stronger than the SN cast.
Arc is fucking strong, yes, then the rest of the cast is on SN's level or below.
None of the other Turkeyhandle girls can kill servants, and as seen by your discussion, Akiha could even die to Rin, so she can't do shit against Saber, Archer, or any servant, let alone Dark Sakura. And Kohaku and Hisui are a joke.
As for Shirou and Shiki, it's a double KO between them, but Shirou's ability lets him fight servants, while Shiki gets speedblitzed by them.

Now shut the fuck up, secondaries.

Elijah Campbell
Elijah Campbell

That's not how god hand works secondary. It's conceptual, if it surpasses A rank then it fucks him up.

God hand IS heracles' body

Ryder Watson
Ryder Watson

No, that is exactly how it works.
A Rank B spear couldn't do shit to him.
A Rank A fish could smack him in the face but it's not necessarily going to hurt him, it just has the potential to.

Connor Myers
Connor Myers

Noble Phantasm Ranks are a completely different scale and system than Parameter/Stats Ranks.
And your source is?
Your ass.

That's not how god hand works secondary. It's conceptual, if it surpasses A rank then it fucks him up
No, if it surpasses A rank it can POTENTIALLY kill him.
Gil pierced him with countless Noble Phantasms, not just twelve. It's not as easy as touching him with something A rank, you have to give him a deadly blow too.
Do you think cutting his finger with an A rank sword would take out a life? are you seriously this retarded?

Evan Long
Evan Long

Akih>>Rin, nice try though but next time don't pretend to be someone else.
Shirou>Shiki

Nothing about mutual defeat is ever mentioned. Nasu says that Shiki will win, killing everything Shirou projects

You do realize overload is not only for Shiki but also Shirou right? And you do realize that Shiki overloading doesn't mean death right? It just means he'll be in bed for a day with a massive headache. We've SEEN him overload his eyes.

Jack Ortiz
Jack Ortiz

ITT: Tsukihimefags being Fate secondaries and Fatefags being Tsukihime secondaries.

Brandon Powell
Brandon Powell

Nasu says that Shiki will win, killing everything Shirou projects
He also says Shirou can win with an Excalibur-like Holy Sword, then die from prana depletion and overworking his mind like in HF Normal.

Joseph Lewis
Joseph Lewis

tfw I started this shitstorm and don't have a bowl of popcorn

James Torres
James Torres

Gil pierced him with several because a servant won't die unless you destroy the core/heart/head. Also Heracles has battle continuation A+ which means not even destroying his heart would kill him Gilgamesh never destroyed his head so he didn't one-shot each of his lives.

Rin blew his head off, so he died.

Thanks for proving you're a secondary because you don't even know that.

Liam Robinson
Liam Robinson

Nasu says if he could do it, he could win (then die)
CM3 says he can't do it anyways.

Kayden Martin
Kayden Martin

That's not winning, that's double suicide.

And Shiki can kill the beam just like he can kill lightning.

Isaac Rodriguez
Isaac Rodriguez

We've SEEN him overload his eyes
Yeah, he couldn't even kill poison without fainting, how do you expect him to cut a rain of legendary Noble Phantasms made of fucking prana (which is even more abstract than killing poison) and not die?
Shiki dies from cutting the swordspam, no questions asked. Even Nasu said it.

Samuel Powell
Samuel Powell

Still mad because Rin is riding his cock and not yours, Archer?

Adrian Brown
Adrian Brown

Not sure why did you bring whole Tsuki vs Fate cast because we talking about Rin vs Akiha.
None of the other Turkeyhandle girls can kill servants
Well Aoko is Servant tier and Ciel in kanzen busou mode should be too considering regular can fight defensively and in that mode she's massively stronger.

Aaron Lewis
Aaron Lewis

And Shiki can kill the beam just like he can kill lightning
Not the same. One is just electricity and the other is prana. Nasu never said he could kill the beam.

William Cooper
William Cooper

All I see is Fatefags not knowing anything about Fate and Tsukihime which is embarrassing.

You can keep pretending you're someone else but the fact that all you've said has been proven wrong won't change. You don't even know what mistery ranks are

Jayden Bennett
Jayden Bennett

Aoko
A Tsukihime character
How more secondary can you get?
And no, Ciel can't kill servants, Nasu confirms.

Ayden Wilson
Ayden Wilson

He didn't kill the poison, it had already spread, he killed the negative effects of the poison and Shirou's NPs are barely holding onto reality.

Shiki kills Shirou, no questions asked. Even Nasu said it.

Ayden Diaz
Ayden Diaz

But could Shiki rape loliShirou?

Robert Jenkins
Robert Jenkins

You think Herc could die from a mere scratch from an A rank sword and dare to tell me you've proven me wrong?
How about you read the fucking VN instead of the wiki?

Jonathan Watson
Jonathan Watson

Shiki has killed Arcueid>>>>>>>>>>>>>Noble Phantasms
Shiki has killed Reality Marbles
DAAs
Gaia
A DAA that is also a Reality Marble 2 on 1

A NP is fucking nothing.

Rain
Since when can Shirou rain NPs without Rin's mana? Even then flash sheat takes care of those
inb4 UBW
Killed just like Nero, Gaia and the one in MB

Cooper Ward
Cooper Ward

I'm reading Tsukihime right now and fuck, Shiki is a fucking psycho. SHIKI really messed him up.

Jose Flores
Jose Flores

Except Shirou can and does project Medusa's bag. Shirou and Archer can create non-combat NPs too. They just can't mimic something as ridiculous as spaceships.

Lucas Evans
Lucas Evans

while Shiki gets speedblitzed by them.
Nasu has said that Shiki will defeat everything that is projected. Noble Phantasms that are projected move as fast as the Servants that used them.

Nasu has already implied that Shiki himself can move fast enough that traced NPs are meaningless to him.

Connor Lee
Connor Lee

You're arguing with Nasu here.

Scenario 1: Shiki kills all the NPs, kills Shirou and dies from overloading his brain.

Scenario 2: Shirou kills Shiki with an Excalibur-like sword blast and dies from overload.

That's it, it's a double KO in both scenarios. In one, Shiki technically wins because he delivers the kill, and in the other one Shirou technically wins. But they both die in both cases.

Thomas Murphy
Thomas Murphy

Ok, so you just baiting. Good to know

Zachary Gomez
Zachary Gomez

When Arcueid opens the door to say "hello" and Shiki's rape instinct kicks in and he slices her into 17 pieces in one quick motion
Tsukihime was an enjoyable read, I got kind of bored on the far side maid routes though.

Charles Gomez
Charles Gomez

Nasu already adressed the "can Shiki kill servants?" question, and no, Shiki doesn't have the stats to kill them, but Mystic Eyes do work on them.

Benjamin Sanchez
Benjamin Sanchez

Nasu says things will change if she takes a certain weapon that's in the "deepest parts" of the association

Jordan Sullivan
Jordan Sullivan

can win with an Excalibur-like Holy Sword
could win
Actually, READ the statement again.

It only says there that Shiki wins. If Excalibur can be used, the situation "becomes different," BUT it does not say that Shiki loses. That is important. This implies that even if Excalibur can be used, Shiki can still win.

Kayden King
Kayden King

She is a Mahoyo character and only has a cameo in Tsukihime, you would know that if you read the fucking VN.

Brody Clark
Brody Clark

You think Herc could die from a mere scratch from an A rank sword and dare to tell me you've proven me wrong?

scratch
Learn to read faggot

And A RANK WOLVES

Ryder Russell
Ryder Russell

He also says he will completely ignore Shiki dying from the overload, so Shiki could die from frying his brain even before he gets to kill Shirou too. It doesn't have to be afterwards.

Landon Turner
Landon Turner

SHIKI really messed him up.
Actually, if you read Red Demon God, you'd understand that Shiki's entire family are psychos when it comes to killing threats, current or future.

Luke Cruz
Luke Cruz

Appearing for 5 minutes in the beginning and 3 minutes in the end does not make her a Tsukihime character.

Did you actually read it? She's never even named in Tsukihime.

Charles Flores
Charles Flores

, Shiki doesn't have the stats to kill them
Shiki can defeat Traced NP Servant stats

Isaac Perez
Isaac Perez

dies from overloading his brain

LITERALLY NEVER SAID. Nasu says Shiki wins, he never mentions anything about him dying fucktard

Overloading doesn't mean death, next time learn what the hell you're talking about.

Bentley Ramirez
Bentley Ramirez

It goes both ways dumbass

John Allen
John Allen

"Sensei" Aoko is Tsukihime/Melty Blood character.
Aoko appeared in both Tsukihime and Melty Blood, does this mean those games take place in the same world?
Takeuchi: Of course they share the same worldview, but it's better to view them as different stories. For example, the Kohaku from Tsukihime and the Kohaku from Melty Blood feel like totally different people (laughs). The Aoko-sensei everyone is familiar with will also be a totally different person. Tsukihime's Aoko-sensei is an accomplished magus, in Mahoutsukai no Yoru she is still an inexperienced mage still growing up. Fans who knew her from other works will be surprised: "So this is how the old Aoko-sensei is like!"

Joseph Hall
Joseph Hall

Anyone got the text or screenshot of that scene, the part where it describes what pieces he cuts her into?

Nathan Wood
Nathan Wood

Medusa's bag
I'll assume this is something from F/HA
I worded my statement poorly. Shirou can trace and project things that aren't "swords" or close to them, but that is a result of his own abilities, not thanks to Unlimited Blade Works.
You wouldn't find something like the school's space heater within Unlimited Blade Works, despite Shirou having analyzed it.

Bentley Mitchell
Bentley Mitchell

Shiki dying from overload is never mentioned, Nasu literally never says anything about Shiki dying. Shiki has overloaded before and he has never died.

Shitposter-kunt.

He also never says overloading is for Shiki, Shirou can as has overloaded his circuits too.

Samuel Thompson
Samuel Thompson

Learn to read faggot
You do realize you're agreeing with me in that post, right?
As I said, an A rank attack bypasses God Hand, but can only POTENTIALLY kill Herc, it still has to deliver a killing blow, which requires enough power to cause a great deal of damage and hit the right place.
Anything below A doesn't even scratch him, nothing.

Wyatt Moore
Wyatt Moore

What the fuck is this girls problem?

Evan Green
Evan Green

The overload goes both ways. You automatically die from using Excalibur. Traced NPs have very short-lived existences, so they should technically have a lot of lines and dots. And Shiki has seen the death of creatures that are higher tier and never fried his brain.

The ONLY time Shiki fried his brain was in Ciel route. And he was literally killing the Counter Force of Gaia.

You might say Kohaku route with the poison, but that was in a route he barely used his eyes in and he was killing the concept of Kohaku getting her ass poisoned. It was already well in her. And all he got was temporary blindness. All other combat he had, he never got fucked even fighting really powerful concepts/creatures.

Benjamin Nelson
Benjamin Nelson

"Sensei" Aoko is Tsukihime/Melty Blood character
She gets more screentime in Mahoyo, do the math.

Julian Gonzalez
Julian Gonzalez

She wants Male Rin's large penis.

Noah Phillips
Noah Phillips

Appears in Tsukihims
Not a tsukihime character

Wew lad.

Are you one of those retards that are in denial about Shiki fucking her because she's your waifu?

Dominic Harris
Dominic Harris

You automatically die from using Excalibur
You mean AFTER using it (AKA after killing Shiki).

Benjamin Stewart
Benjamin Stewart

(AKA after killing Shiki).
Refer to

Eli Campbell
Eli Campbell

See

Josiah Rogers
Josiah Rogers

But can they beat Shirou's waifu?

Jaxon Gonzalez
Jaxon Gonzalez

I don't care about your headcanon

see

Your waifu got her pussy fucked by an inbred demon killer. Sorry pal

Owen Green
Owen Green

She starts out in Tsukihime and is actually in Melty Blood a lot.

Carter Long
Carter Long

There's no Sensei Aoko in Mahoyo. She's Tsukihime/MB character

Asher Cruz
Asher Cruz

No, he dies before using it or even forming it.

Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?

A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

Dylan Harris
Dylan Harris

Shiki could save her, killing zoken's existence in day one just like he did to Nero. Except Zoken is trash.

He could kill AM's connection to sakura after that.

Shirou would need ti suck his dick as thanks.

Owen Nguyen
Owen Nguyen

There's no Sensei Aoko in Mahoyo
Implying she's a different person
This denial, holy shit.

Luis Myers
Luis Myers

You mean "dies after making a degraded copy that's still powerful enough to wipe out a gigantic abomination like Angra Mainyu"

Noah Clark
Noah Clark

No, he dies before using it or even forming it.
Read HF, fucking secondary.
Shirou traced Excalibur Morgan to kill the grail and THEN died.

Angel Anderson
Angel Anderson

The Aoko-sensei everyone is familiar with will also be a totally different person
The Aoko-sensei everyone is familiar with

Aoko sensei>>>> Mahoyo Tsundere

Alexander Bailey
Alexander Bailey

You forgot the part where he has a servant's arm that amps him to a level he'll never reach glued to his body pal.

Ethan Sanders
Ethan Sanders

We're not talking quality here, we're talking screentime and relevance.
Aoko is shit in any form, I couldn't care less who you think is best.

Charles Thompson
Charles Thompson

Now you're arguing with Nasu.

Juan Roberts
Juan Roberts

Does anybody have that image of Saber in her white dress where she is in Avalon with her hands upon her chest smiling and waiting for Shirou, or in that case, welcoming Shirou?

It was official art or VN art I think.

Asher Howard
Asher Howard

This?
The black lines that divide her into seventeen pieces.
Through the neck, back of the head, from the right eye to the lips, upper right arm, lower right arm, right ring finger, left elbow, left thumb, left middle finger, left breast, from the rib to the heart, from the stomach to the abdomen in two places, left groin, left thigh, left leg, left toe, all of them.
As I pass by her,
not even taking a second.
Truly, in an instant, entirely.
I "dismantle" her into seventeen pieces of meat.

Logan Perez
Logan Perez

There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though
Does this mean Archer has a Noble Phantasm with similar performance to fucking EA, AKA anti-world NP?

Easton Martinez
Easton Martinez

She's not a tsukihime character
Except she is
She's not
Someone posts a quote where they literally say she is
b-but she's not

Caleb Walker
Caleb Walker

Nasu himself made Shirou trace Excalibur Morgan in HF. VN Nasu>any other Nasu.

Owen Harris
Owen Harris

No, Nasu says might to situations that will never happen outside of complete hypotheticals.

Eli Price
Eli Price

Now you're arguing with Nasu.
No, I'm citing evidence from where what Nasu wrote contradicts what he said later, and restating the "It's just a shitty replica" excuse he gave.

There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock

I'm sorry, I didn't know we had moved those goalposts.

Connor Williams
Connor Williams

She is actually a Nasuverse character, but she is more prominent in Mahoyo than Tsukihime.

Caleb Smith
Caleb Smith

Well he died the moment he traced it. His body moved automatically, possibly Counter Force finished the job using his body

Ian Rodriguez
Ian Rodriguez

Nasu says might to situations that will never happen outside of complete hypotheticals
Straight out of your headcanon.

Grayson Edwards
Grayson Edwards

HF Shirou traces it with Archer's Arm. In fact everything HF Shirou does is with Archer's arm.

He uses mana from the arm, uses the arms circuirs, experience and so on. The only thing HE actually does is think
I want to trace this shit arm-kun , thanks

Joshua Russell
Joshua Russell

Nasu was really detailed in this shit.

Zachary Powell
Zachary Powell

I kind of like Male Rin and Shielder. Sad they ended up in GO though.

Mason Jackson
Mason Jackson

Shirou is one of those MCs that are very irritating. Just like that Shu from Guilty Crown.

Lucas Peterson
Lucas Peterson

trying to play death of the author
Nasu says what's canon and he has been very insistent on this.

Ryder Carter
Ryder Carter

I guess I worded myself poorly too. He didn't just project a grocery bag. He projected Kibisis. A noble phantasm bag that has zero association with swords or direct combat/damage. Shirou projects it after seeing it. (From the inside.)

The EMIYAs are perfectly capable of recreating non-divine non-combat NPs.

Jacob Fisher
Jacob Fisher

Pls respond

Xavier Peterson
Xavier Peterson

Yeah, we give Nasu shit for his sex scenes and seafood fetish, but the man can write some... unnerving stuff.

Isaac Nguyen
Isaac Nguyen

Upper right arm
lower right arm

Zachary Green
Zachary Green

Nasu's behavior is my headcanon?
If something were true, Nasu would say its true.
Why else would Nasu use the word might?

Jayden Torres
Jayden Torres

Your waifu got her pussy fucked by an inbred demon killer. Sorry pal
Yeah, that literally never happens in a single TM work. If you're going to try to troll, at least reference things that exist. Or be less blatant.

Evan Lee
Evan Lee

shiroufags btfo

Charles Gonzalez
Charles Gonzalez

Nasu brought in guest authors who he allowed to write anything cause it was just a dream.

Did you check who wrote that?

Blake Davis
Blake Davis

It's a metaphor for his self-awareness dying.
Shirou forgets he is Emiya Shirou, he loses his very last memory and his personality dies, but the soul is still inside his body and it still moves, so he is not actually dead. He's like a vegetable.

Easton Jones
Easton Jones

Is it a metaphor or do you want it to be?
Where did it say or indicate it was a metaphor?

Robert Hill
Robert Hill

Waifufag in denial about his waifu wanting the gland

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHA

I don't mean to be distant, but if you learned your lesson, please avoid the mansion. Going to Nii-san's room is simply intolerable.

Leo Barnes
Leo Barnes

But can Shiki kill Caliburn, UBW and Archer's arm wielder Shirou after having a fouresome with Sakura, Saber and Rin?

Parker Stewart
Parker Stewart

Nasu says what's canon and he has been very insistent on this
Even Nasu can't retcon what happened in the VN without a valid explanation.
He contradicted himself and probably forgot what he wrote before, so the VN takes priority.

Jaxon Ramirez
Jaxon Ramirez

trying to win an argument with buzzwords
Shirou isn't projecting Excalibur. Shirou is projecting shitty degraded thing outwardly resembling Excalibur and with similar function, but incomparable to the real thing.
That is not inconsistent with what Nasu made up after writing it.
That is not inconsistent with what Archer stated when he threatened to try the same feat in Unlimited Blade Works.

Gabriel Taylor
Gabriel Taylor

"Vampire Shiki with Nanaya Blood using Senso and Sensa, with strenght surpassing Nanaya Kiri and having formed a contract with Len" can.

Leo Foster
Leo Foster

Oh and forgot to say that he raped the maids too.

Colton Price
Colton Price

Your right arm has an upper and lower portion.

Xavier Robinson
Xavier Robinson

Not sure who wrote her eclipse scene, honestly. But also honestly not sure why that's relevant. Nasu didn't write all of F/HA's main story, he didn't write F/Z, he only wrote small portions of F/GO, but it's all still canon. It happened in-universe in a canon story produced by TM. If he didn't write it, he at least saw it before release, assuming he wasn't a completely lazy fuck.

I'd say they can canonically make shit like Kibisis.

Brandon Gutierrez
Brandon Gutierrez

You forgot "after having a threesome with maids"

Isaiah Roberts
Isaiah Roberts

Tracing excalibur wasn't what killed him you fool

Archer's arm was eating away his conciousness from the moment he traced Berserker's axe-sword.
Excalibur was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Carter Moore
Carter Moore

Why else would Nasu use the word might?
Because he is unsure if he's contradicting a previous statement, so he treads carefully.
Why would he even say "might be" if it is actually impossible? if it's not possible then he shuts his mouth or says "no, it's not possible". We've seen him do that a lot.

Elijah Anderson
Elijah Anderson

You really are trying hard to fit in being such a lel epic troll, aren't you?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHA
Too bad you're failing horribly.

Adam Powell
Adam Powell

Man I'd really like to see an H scene of this.

I wonder how Aoko is in bed, she probably doesn't have experience. Taking that huge Nanaya cock should be hard for a tomboy like her.

Man can we have Aoko sex scenes in the remake?

Tyler Allen
Tyler Allen

Yes I forgot but I added it here user

Nathaniel Adams
Nathaniel Adams

He uses might when its possible in a completely hypothetical situation.
In example, if there was a Hypothetical weaker and non-divine Ea, he could copy a downgrade of that, but since none exists, he says might.

Parker Roberts
Parker Roberts

Really? You're not even baiting any waifufags, just spurring some "are you actually that stupid" comments. And come on. At least try to make your samefaggotry subtle.

Nathan Russell
Nathan Russell

lel

/r/catalog#s=eddit

Cooper Collins
Cooper Collins

filename
Reminder that Miyu's brother is by far the strongest official version of Shirou, being able to invoke Unlimited Blade Works and performing numerous consecutive top-tier projection feats without giving himself an aneurysm.
Reminder that Kuro, and by extension Prisma Archer, is by far the strongest version of Archer, able to project an Excalibur exceeding the strength of the original without Mooncell assistance, and mold Excalibur into a Broken Phantasm.

Nathan Brooks
Nathan Brooks

Nasu can absolutely retcon it.
Nasu isn't retconning something that is vital to the story, just to a single ending.
All it does is trim that branch, leaving the rest of the story untouched.

Eli Lopez
Eli Lopez

Reminder that Prisma have nothing to do with canon Nasuverse rules.

Jace Peterson
Jace Peterson

The relevence is that HA is bound by canon as much as Kagetsu Tohya.
Because they're both essentially dreams.

Joshua Nelson
Joshua Nelson

Man can we have Aoko sex scenes in the remake?
Would be nice if it happens.

Daniel Myers
Daniel Myers

The soul remains
The body moved and swung the sword
If the body moves, the brain works, then it's physically alive, and if the soul remains, it's spiritually alive.
The only aspect that can objectively be "dead" is the mind.
Shirou basically stopped thinking, so the person "Emiya Shirou" can metaphorically, philosophically or poetically, be thought as dead.

Austin Ramirez
Austin Ramirez

Who cares about Nasuverse rules. It's fun.

All this autism about muh Ea and muh Excalibur is annoying.

Gavin Campbell
Gavin Campbell

Grand Order is canon
assmad mainFatefags still want to tell me Prisma isn't canon

Leo Phillips
Leo Phillips

Even if GO is fanfiction tier it's still canon. Prisma is also fanfiction tier but isn't canon.

Carson Robinson
Carson Robinson

I doubt it but damn if I would like it. We need a cake, maybe he'll fuck the new teacher but who knows.

Still i'd also like to see /ss/ with his nurse

Ryder Allen
Ryder Allen

Fair enough. Then I guess it's hard to completely discount or support it.

I'll keep my canon that it's possible.

Christopher Jackson
Christopher Jackson

Nasu said Grand Order is canon in the most recent interview.

People get angry "Well if shitty effortless mobage is canon then Prisma should be too", but you can realize there's a world of difference there. With the original writer making sure everything is consistent, writing all of it, and despite people trying to downplay as hard as they can to say that it doesn't count, there is a lot of effort put into it by Nasu

Really its no different than bitter people going "Well if shitty dumb PSP game is canon....". Yeah, PSP game is also canon, Nasu also wrote it. Nasu is weird about what he puts his time into in order to increase the overall lore, but if he wrote it then chances are he made it canon.

He stuck with Mobage at the moment because he feels its something anyone can get into, and is super accessible for Fate.

Jeremiah Parker
Jeremiah Parker

In the Nasuverse, as long as the soul remains, the person is alive.
That's how Shirou survives in HF True. Illya basically immortalizes his soul with the Thrid Magic and then gives him some weird rudimentary body to survive until Rider finds him.
Then they put his soul in one of Touko's puppets and he's as good as new.

Brandon Smith
Brandon Smith

As a raging Fatefag I've always considered it canon
How is it not? It's a canonically infinite multiverse. Everything is canon. If you hop on Zelretch's back he could find you a world with magical girls in one of those infinite worlds.

Leo Wright
Leo Wright

Aoko and Toukou are cute.

Connor Jenkins
Connor Jenkins

I don't think it is, but you seem less spergy than the rest of of the thread, so I won't fight you on it.

David Clark
David Clark

With the original writer making sure everything is consistent
80% of GO is inconsistent even with it's own setting. Nobunaga loses her fifth star so you need to fight Chibi Nobus.

There's a lot more where that's coming from.
Writing all of it
Nasu has barely written stuff for GO.

And FGO is a fun project

Brayden James
Brayden James

Nasu can absolutely retcon it
He can't. All endings including the bad ones are canon, he can't de-canonize an ending, he can only create an alternate version of it at best.
He is cursed by his own creation. In the Nasuverse, everything he established as canon, will remain canon in, worst case scenario, a different timeline.
When he made changes for the UBW anime he didn't retcon the VN, he just created a different timeline, and he himself admitted to this. So, no, Nasu can't retcon Nasu.

Christopher King
Christopher King

just because it's a multiverse doesn't mean everything's canon.

Jayden Morales
Jayden Morales

Nasu can't retcon Nasu
Who is the strongest person in the nasurverse besides Nasu?

Brandon Thomas
Brandon Thomas

Takeuchi?

Hudson Hernandez
Hudson Hernandez

Ciel can only fight servants defensively,
She murdered Rider rather nicely in that "Shiki can kill servants" thing

Chase Jackson
Chase Jackson

infinite multiverse
infinite

This isn't Super. There aren't 12 universes, there are INFINITE universes. And with infinite worlds, there's literally infinite possibilities. This is a blatant lolibait fanservice pandering possibility, but there's no logical reason I can think of for this possible world to exist within infinity. Unless I'm genuinely misunderstanding infinity.

Joseph Stewart
Joseph Stewart

He can.
He owns the IP, so he can do whatever he wants with it.
There is a reason no one takes death of the author seriously except butthurt academics.

Juan Sanchez
Juan Sanchez

Who is the strongest person in the nasurverse besides Nasu?

Matthew Ward
Matthew Ward

Muh Zelretch
Actually you can't use him for that one. Second magic operates only within sixth dimension. We know that thanks to the info on Avalon.
It was a Noble Phantasm reaching the realm of True Magic. Avalon shut out all physical interference, operation of parallel worlds, and multi-dimensional communication (up to the sixth dimension).
After invoking its true name, Avalon dissipates as tiny particles into the air, and shields the wielder from all interference. No damage can be done to the wielder when a state of absolute defence is initiated. Even interference from the parallel world based on the Second Magic will be blocked. An “absolute defence” that can even repel the assault of True Magic, it is a True Magic in itself.
So it's not true infinity, Zel can jump only between unlimited parallel variants of the same main universe.

Michael Myers
Michael Myers

You mean in a fanfiction doujin? Where the creators apologized in the back and admitted they were biased Tsukihimefags? Ciel doesn't stand a semblance of a chance against Medusa on Belly with her eyepatch off.

Isaiah Roberts
Isaiah Roberts

Okay, thanks senpai. That makes sense.

And is also kind of disappointing. The idea of that universe actually existing alongside F/SN always amused me.

Thomas Cook
Thomas Cook

I mean, Zelretch is literally in Prisma
He's one of the main drivers of the plot, specifically because of the alternate universe fuckery going on

Nathaniel Rogers
Nathaniel Rogers

He can
No he can't. He can't erase what's already written by his own hand, he can twist and bend the facts around it, he can make us look at it from another angle, he can make it an alternative timeline, but he can't retcon it with a mere commentary from an interview. The statement just doesn't have enough weight compared to the universe he has already written, he would be creating a CONTRADICTION, not a retcon.
This is what happens when an author tries to retcon his core work with poor explanations, people argue over it and ultimately reach no agreement and finally the VN wins because most people don't even know what he said in that little interview and go with the VN's canon.

Nicholas Ortiz
Nicholas Ortiz

Void Ryougi would fuck up Shero. She'll lose to EMIYA though.

Jonathan Evans
Jonathan Evans

Yes Prisma can have it's own Zel but Nasuverse Zel and Prisma Zel will never meet.

Ryder Taylor
Ryder Taylor

The author cannot undo the work they made.
Everything the author says in an attempt to disregard previous work is invalid no matter what they say.
The author who created the work has no power in making what is canon and what is not-canon in their works once it is released.

Not that, user, but this is what I'm getting from you. You sound like a shitter mate.

David Bell
David Bell

Time is convoluted in the Nasuverse.

Nicholas Cooper
Nicholas Cooper

Its not in an interview, its in the World Materials, the law of the land.
Also, the VN loses because the rules are followed with every other piece of media and it is an ongoing franchise.

John Wright
John Wright

We already have pseudo-servant Waver, Rin and Sakura.
Avenger.

And Shirou is a Servant. He's Archer. Like Kiritsugu is now a CG Assassin with a tan and albino hair.

Luis Mitchell
Luis Mitchell

They never apologized and you're overreacting to a joke post.

Go back to
/vg/ and ger triggered there newfag. Don't you have to talk about Lancelot using KoH on Goku's kamehameha or demonbane?

Aiden Bailey
Aiden Bailey

That explains everything.

Tyler Hill
Tyler Hill

tsukihimefags trying to pretend their shit is worthy of talking

Yeah, sure they can beat the new powerlevels that solo all timelines just because.

Cameron Phillips
Cameron Phillips

the VN loses because the rules are followed with every other piece of media and it is an ongoing franchise
Fate Extra also shat on Nasu's "no Excalibur ripoffs" rule, even harder than HF Normal, because HF Normal can be excused by saying it wasn't actually Excalibur Morgan but a degraded NP of similar power, but in Extra they actually used Excalibur.
Nasu just keeps forgetting his own rules, he can't be trusted with this.

Isaac Allen
Isaac Allen

We can all agree that Sacchin in a qt3.14 right?

Easton Clark
Easton Clark

Prisma is fanfic tier trash. The author apologized that has nothing to do with TM universe.

And Zelretch is a Fate character. TM lists him as much in the poll.

Mason Murphy
Mason Murphy

Sex scene literally never.

Easton Bailey
Easton Bailey

She's have sex with Sion and Roastbeef.

Eli Watson
Eli Watson

Excalibur Image
In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior.
Okay truth is, I was surprised to find that the staff in charge of the 3D had made animation for Excalibur being projected while I was looking the other way.
Well it is new animation after all and there's no reason to reject it. So long as it's a degraded version, I guess it's okay.

Even in data world he can't do it

Connor Garcia
Connor Garcia

Super cute

Nathan Brown
Nathan Brown

I don't recall that particular mana transfer.

Adrian Reyes
Adrian Reyes

It's literally Excalibur with the UBW penalty. Play the game and you'll see for yourself. Even Archer himself acknowledges he's ripping off Saber's sword, since he always sought to get to her level.
This proves Nasu doesn't even have authority over his staff's ideas, which is not surprising, since shit like this keeps happening since HA.
Nasu can't retcon shit. He can't even retcon the 3D artists headcanon.

Isaiah Powell
Isaiah Powell

You are ignoring the situation.

The description literally states that there is no circumstance outside of the Moon Cell that would allow this.

He calls it a fragment and it is tagged as an Image= He can't do it even in the Moon Cell

He can't unleash the sword beam, even in the Moon Cell= Sword Beams are impossible for him.

Adrian Peterson
Adrian Peterson

He can't unleash the sword beam, even in the Moon Cell= Sword Beams are impossible for him
Because he would die, like Shirou, it's not inconsistent with what happened in HF Normal.
But he can still use it as a suicide attack, it's just pouring prana into the sword.
The hard part is projecting it, not using it.

Benjamin Harris
Benjamin Harris

Doesn't make sense. Kiritsugu would never make a contract with the world after experiencing how the grail fucked him over and he also passed on his ideal to Shirou so he has no reason to be a CG.

If anything, Kiritsugu's father who was willing to turn everyone into monsters to achieve his family magic's main dream would be desperate enough to become a CG if it meant he could still somehow work on perfecting his family's magic.

Michael Rodriguez
Michael Rodriguez

This Kiritsugu never even fought in the grail war or met Iri.

Lucas Morgan
Lucas Morgan

First, its not possible because replication is not possible, even in a degraded form.

Second, he doesn't meet the requirements to fire it. Should have read GoA.

Third, he's never used an NP's activated ability.

Hudson Collins
Hudson Collins

There's an easier explanation here.
Nasu regrets making Shirou/Archer so OP in the VN, so he's been releasing side material nerfing his abilities non-stop with poor, rushed explanations.
UBW not mattering against any servant but Gil despite it working the same as GoB but with less rank and faster spam, Shirou/Archer not being able to project excalibur despite him doing just that in HF, Archer not being able to project Excalibur properly in Extra despite having all the materials necessary, Caladbolg doing jack shit against Berserker in the UBW anime (which was so stupid he was forced to lazily retcon it back in the season 1 Q&A), and there's probably even more.
So yeah, this is why his work at retconning all this seems so sloppy. He's been almost flawless with the consistency of all his other side material statements, but he's obviously struggling with these issues because Shirou and Archer were too detailed in the VN, and it's really hard to go back on facts that well established.

Jeremiah Nguyen
Jeremiah Nguyen

he's never used an NP's activated ability
NLBW is a NP ability, so is Excalibur Morgan's blast. He doesn't get just the passives, he traces the techniques too.
Read HF, for fucks sake.

Christopher Scott
Christopher Scott

this actually makes sense

Connor Howard
Connor Howard

In HF, the power changed so that it was no longer UBW.
Archer never did a bunch of the shit HF Shirou did, because he couldn't.
One of the things Archer never did was activate an NP.
And you said you read HF.

Robert Sullivan
Robert Sullivan

So I'm finally catching up and watching Ufotable's UBW anime, how does it fare based on the VN route and the movie?

Levi Taylor
Levi Taylor

Badly since Nasu is a hack.

Daniel Murphy
Daniel Murphy

Excalibur Morgan's blast.
But to use activated ability you need to call it's true name and Shirou was already dead after he traced it .
I thought he just used it as BP and allah akbar himself along with a grail

Hudson Flores
Hudson Flores

Shirou was already dead after he traced it .
He wasn't fucking dead. It says his soul remained, and his body was still moving. He was biologically alive and his soul, which is literally himself, was also alive.
Shirou just ceased thinking, it's reading comprehension 101.
HF explains twice, once with Zouken and once with Shirou, that the soul IS the person. If the soul remains, the person is alive.

Kayden James
Kayden James

In HF, the power changed so that it was no longer UBW.
Archer never did a bunch of the shit HF Shirou did, because he couldn't.
Literally fanfiction.

Christopher Taylor
Christopher Taylor

VN > Anime > Movie

But you knew that already.

Alexander Sanchez
Alexander Sanchez

Cool but if he was a vegetable he still wouldn't be able to say "Exuuucalibbbbaa"

Cooper Brown
Cooper Brown

His mouth and tongue probably worked, and he was in auto pilot. He could have said it, he just wouldn't know he said it.
Did you ever sleep walk? people can actually talk and do things without being conscious at all.

Hunter Reed
Hunter Reed

Show me one time Archer or UBW Shirou activated an NP.
Show me one time they could use an ability that was never used with the weapon they traced.
Show me one time Nasu says it would be possible to reproduce Excalibur outside the Moon Cell.

Henry Hill
Henry Hill

I am a complete mongoloid who through some miracle can shitpost on Sup Forums despite clearly being unable to comprehend the English language, please rape my face

Elijah Ross
Elijah Ross

Without EKUSUKARIBAAAHH he couldn't have destroyed the grail. Just slashing it won't do shit.
If he did it without Excalibur, it's even more impressive, because it means he has a sword just as powerful that can cause the same destruction without even being called by it's name.
That surely must be the greatest sword after Ea, or, you know, maybe it was just degraded Excalibur after all.

Henry Price
Henry Price

Not when your brain is wiped out clean. People in vegetative state don't randomly talk or move

Parker Evans
Parker Evans

Or he just BP and blows himself up along with grail

Carson Flores
Carson Flores

Yea pretty much what I was expecting.

Has there been any word on the HF adapatation yet? I'm excited as hell to see this finally animated.

Dominic Stewart
Dominic Stewart

What Shirou says and does are completely different.
"I know the scope of my power" my ass.

Elijah Gonzalez
Elijah Gonzalez

People in vegetative state don't randomly talk or move
Well, Shirou moved, so he wasn't in a vegetative state. He was not conscious, or his mind was reduced to a blank state with no concept of identity.
We know for a fact his body still worked, and his soul (true Shirou) was still there. You can picture the rest however you like, that's the magic of novels.

Jaxon Thompson
Jaxon Thompson

Nope

Lucas Robinson
Lucas Robinson

I picture it as CF used Shirou body and finished the job. Makes most sense to me.

Angel Rogers
Angel Rogers

Shirou immediately dies on tracing shitty fake not-Excalibur
Except that doesn't happen in the True End where he traces it before Illya saves him.
He dies in the Normal End because he did extra Projection beforehand and not-Excalibur was his last shot before the sword cancer/Alzheimers killed him.

Am I the only one in this thread who has actually read the thing we're talking about?

Jeremiah Rivera
Jeremiah Rivera

Only that it's 3 movies, first coming out in 2017.

David Martin
David Martin

Easily.

Elijah Young
Elijah Young

BP is used by Archer with sniping, we've never heard of a melee Broken Phantasm before, and we don't even know if a mere Broken Phantasm is enough to destroy the Holy Grail.
A suicide Excaliblast seems far more likely, and is a far more dignified death than using an Allahu Akbar NP.

Kevin Baker
Kevin Baker

dignity
Nasu doesn't give a shit about Shirou anymore, so it's either Allah Ackbar or declaring HF non-canon.
Pick one.

Jaxson Smith
Jaxson Smith

Or it could be another Holy Sword with similar performance to Excalibur. We know UBW has those.

Nathaniel Butler
Nathaniel Butler

Great.
Post one.

Ethan Perez
Ethan Perez

declaring HF non-canon
I can already hear Worm user wriggling with excitement.

Andrew Cook
Andrew Cook

Swings the sword
Beam comes out
people think this means braindead Shirou somehow learned to do Broken Phantasm at the last second

It's a fucking degraded imitation of Excalibur with similar function but far lesser power you autistic fucks
He makes a shitty imitation nowhere near the real thing but enough to kill Angra Mainyu.
This does not contradict Nasu's statement, it's just a shitty copy.
The Mooncell version is just a much less shitty copy that doesn't kill him from the strain of trying to grasp a Divine Construct with a feeble human mind.

Jesus FUCK you people are dense

Ethan Sanders
Ethan Sanders

faster spam
Can you stop this? UBW is GoB counter because "swords are already there", it gives him a headstart but there's nothing about it being faster in actual swordspam, if anything it should be slower because even with headstart he only counter not outspam Gil

Jace Reed
Jace Reed

Here, it's a little blurry, but this is definitely the one.

Zachary Martinez
Zachary Martinez

Why is beam gold if he traced darkcalibur?

Samuel Taylor
Samuel Taylor

Excalibur has requirements to fire that Emiya doesn't meet.
I consulted my sword guide and that looks like a Divine Construct to me.
No sale.

David Roberts
David Roberts

Are you retarded? the swords being already there means each UBW sword will fire before it's GoB counterpart can leave the portal.
It mathematically gives you a faster rate of fire.
If GoB could outspam UBW Shirou would be DEAD, get it through your dense skull.

Tyler Adams
Tyler Adams

He traced Excalibur but gave it Morgan's appearance for edgy points.
Archer was from an alternate Fate route, so Shirou had both Excalibur and Morgan in his library.

Ryan Bailey
Ryan Bailey

Shooting earlier doesn't matter to other Servants if actual speed is the same

Landon Thomas
Landon Thomas

Because his prana isn't blackened like Saber Alter's
But Excalibur Morgan is black because Saber's prana is black
Irrelevant because it's a shitty imitation that only outwardly resembles Shirou's mental image of the sword he's trying to project
More likely whoever used that image is lazy and/or not as autistic as us

Good thing it's not Excalibur, just a shitty imitation

Aiden Barnes
Aiden Barnes

Archer's swords. You choose not to imitate my own, Shirou?
…With an effort, I gather together the shards of >my consciousness.
…What did Saber just say?
Did she ask me why I won't project her sword?
…I can't waste my energy like that.
…It takes too long to project such a powerful Noble Phantasm, and I can't handle that holy blade in any case.
I should be able to imitate it if my enemy's not moving, but I won't have time to use the sword's true name against her.

Jeremiah Williams
Jeremiah Williams

That doesn't count because I'm too autistic to reconcile semantics

Samuel Morgan
Samuel Morgan

You were the one who mentioned Gil and GoB, not other servants.

Jace Foster
Jace Foster

won't have time to use the sword's true name against her
So he CAN use the sword's true name (given enough time), huh? Interesting.

Nathaniel Nelson
Nathaniel Nelson

I was talking about this
UBW not mattering against any servant but Gil despite it working the same as GoB but with less rank and faster spam
For other Servant UBW "swords are already there" doesn't matter

Ryan Campbell
Ryan Campbell

I'm sure he can kill Shiki will to fight with that kind of line.

David Lewis
David Lewis

UBW obviously matches speed to GoB, but fires slower when it can't copy commands.

William Richardson
William Richardson

"This is… your world, Archer?"
"Yes. I do not mind if you would like to test it out. I shall reproduce that holy sword of yours."
"My holy sword…? Are you saying that, knowing its true identity, Archer?"
"Of course. A weapon of such rank cannot be perfectly reproduced, but I can get it close."
If only people actually read the VN

Julian Hernandez
Julian Hernandez

Shut your mouth before Nasu declares UBW non canon.

Bentley Russell
Bentley Russell

Too OP pls nerf.

Kayden Davis
Kayden Davis

Some people just can't wrap their head around the difference between an imitation and the original.

Jason Jackson
Jason Jackson

Le bluff.

Matthew Barnes
Matthew Barnes

I was hyped as fuck when I first read this scene.
I wish I could forget it and read the VN for the first time again.

Josiah Turner
Josiah Turner

Le proof?

Carson Phillips
Carson Phillips

Now that the dust has settled, can Shiki kill an Excaliblast?

Jaxson James
Jaxson James

I remember people saying that Nasu said it. Though I always treated it like a bullshit it is.

Luis King
Luis King

A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

Never ever

Ethan Morris
Ethan Morris

No. Saber owns him.

Aaron Moore
Aaron Moore

That's nothing special. There are other things that need to get nerfed first.

Logan Fisher
Logan Fisher

Divine constructs like Excalibur are non-replicable

A weapon of such rank cannot be perfectly reproduced, but I can get it close

Wow look it's two non-contradictory statements.

Ayden Johnson
Ayden Johnson

He can't perfectly reproduce it, but he can get it close. It's like you didn't even read.

Bentley Morgan
Bentley Morgan

Non-replicable means that it cannot be reproduced at all.
Not even poorly.
Nasu even says that he needs a completely different NP base for a similar effect.

Jose Lewis
Jose Lewis

FALSE.

Non-replicable means you can't make a REPLICA of the weapon.

Now, let's check the definition of "replica"
an exact copy or model of something

In other words: non-replicable means you can't make an EXACT copy of the sword.
This is literally what Archer said, he can't make a perfect reproduction, but he can get it close.

Wyatt Stewart
Wyatt Stewart

In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior.

Conversely, projection of holy sword weaponry is impossible outside of Extra.

Asher Howard
Asher Howard

But Archer can't make a perfect reproduction of anything. It's always ranked down

Thomas Gutierrez
Thomas Gutierrez

He can make a perfect reproduction if he has direct contact with the owner of the original, like what happened with Caliburn and Avalon (he normaly can't make EX rank weaponry).
Also, I believe the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch was yet another perfect projection, but I could be mistaken.

Joshua Cook
Joshua Cook

No, it only means he has the materials he can't get on earth, so his projection is even better and not suicidal.
On Earth he just replaces the materials for normal metals and earthly shit and hopes he doesn't die.

Ian Jackson
Ian Jackson

Citation needed

Noah Morris
Noah Morris

projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible
Archer's Excalibur is just a really good sword, while in Extra it's a HOLY sword, because he can use the materials from the fairies.

Evan King
Evan King

It's your own quote.
Holy Swords are available in Extra because of the access to better materials. Are you retarded?
On earth you get whatever cheap ripoff Shirou used in HF, while in Extra you get a very similar copy.

Wyatt Carter
Wyatt Carter

Jeweled Sword of Zelretch was yet another perfect projection
Nah, Rin said they got half of its original ability.

Justin Edwards
Justin Edwards

Wasn't she getting infinite prana? half infinity is still infinity, how the fuck could she have been using just half of it's power?

Daniel Murphy
Daniel Murphy

Speed and power of the attack could be downgraded.

Kayden Smith
Kayden Smith

Power of the attack is limited by Rin's maximum prana output. She was using 1000 units per shot IRC. Speed might be downgraded, maybe also durability?

Grayson Phillips
Grayson Phillips

It says conditions are boosted, it doesn't explain how.
What you need to do is to is provide a citation that Archer can do what you said.

Isaac Campbell
Isaac Campbell

Miyu's shirou by far

Carson Gutierrez
Carson Gutierrez

Shirou literally projected an Excalibur copycat in HF, and Archer already claimed he could do so in the route before.
That's your citation and your proof.
Whatever Shirou used
a) It looked like Excalibur.
b) It was used like Excalibur (beam and everything).
c) It had similar power to Excalibur, since it destroyed the Holy Grail.
Don't want to call it Excalibur? fine by me, but Archer was right when he said he could get close to projecting Saber's sword.

Benjamin Rodriguez
Benjamin Rodriguez

Power of the attack is limited by Rin's maximum prana output
It's a factor but not the only one. Remember that Zel used Jewel Sword to push back Moon drop? Zel might have higher cap than Rin be not that much.

Bentley Foster
Bentley Foster

be not that much.
*But

Grayson Phillips
Grayson Phillips

*But
*Butt
It's Rin were talking about, remember?

Dylan Miller
Dylan Miller

claim
The claim has caveats. It can be done, but would be followed by death soon after. It's also not as good as the real thing.

Just because it destroyed the Grail. that doesn't mean it's necessarily as strong as Excalibur either.

Matthew Johnson
Matthew Johnson

Butt
You mean Ciel?

Chase Ortiz
Chase Ortiz

Those were retcon'd.
Nasu has outright said Excalibur can't be done and that Excalibur Image could only be done in the Moon Cell after he made an exception for the game modeler's hard work.

That means that Emiya can't even create an image outside of the Moon Cell.
It also means that it doesn't work how you think it does.

Ayden Campbell
Ayden Campbell

Ciel has a big butt

Kevin Thompson
Kevin Thompson

He's not director this time though, right?

Jaxon Johnson
Jaxon Johnson

Those were retcon'd.
No, Nasu said Excalibur can't be done, that just means it wasn't Excalibur in HF. It was a degraded Noble Phantasm with similar performance to it.

There's no contradiction whatsoever.

Elijah Cooper
Elijah Cooper

Ciel equals butt
Butt equals Ciel

Jaxon Roberts
Jaxon Roberts

It means that Excalibur cannot even be used as a base NP.

Blake Allen
Blake Allen

The claim was ultimately true, but Archer never intended to use an Excalibur ripoff, it was his suicidal last resort if Saber didn't back off. Clash with Saber's Excalibur and hope Shirou gets killed in the explosion.

Henry Long
Henry Long

It never said Excalibur can't be used as a base NP. Show me where.
Also, why are you so obsessed with Excalibur, it could have been any other degraded Anti-fortress A++ rank sword. But the fact that it looked like Excalibur Morgan gives us a hint that it was indeed modeled after Excalibur, just without the difficulr materials.

Jack Evans
Jack Evans

Shiki the Void can kill those.

Jaxon Morales
Jaxon Morales

Nasu specifically stated that Archer could only create an image in the Moon Cell.
Only in the Moon Cell is it OK.
Outside, he can't even create its image, so obviously he can't use it as a base.

Ryder Carter
Ryder Carter

Wait, how inbred? Like Targaryen inbred? Or just normie Voldemort inbred limited to fucking cousins?

Jaxon Edwards
Jaxon Edwards

So inbred, they got superpowers.

Levi Campbell
Levi Campbell

implying Voldemort's ancestors weren't sibling fuckers

Juan Rogers
Juan Rogers

so obviously he can't use it as a base
Obviously my ass, that's your own headcanon.
He can't make an Excalibur image, that's it. There's nothing that says he can't trace a similar Noble Phantasm. In fact, Shirou has done that already. Get over it.
Actually, pray that it was Excalibur, because if it wasn't, then Shirou has a sword that is just as powerful but easier to make and use.
Guess Excalibur is the third best sword now.
Ea>Shirou's Totally-Not-Excalibur>Excalibur>Excalibur Image.

Mason Adams
Mason Adams

So inbred that it doesn't matter if that's your mom, sister or grandma. If you and her have highest specs then you must fuck

Lincoln Anderson
Lincoln Anderson

tl;dr Shirou wins at distance combat again
It all depends
Can Shiki kill distance, time, his vision, etc?

Robert Taylor
Robert Taylor


Throwing a tantrum now?
If the word of God defies the Bible, the word of God still comes before the Bible.

Maybe I should make it simpler:
Moon Cell Boosted:
-Looks like Excalibur
-does not function like Excalibur
Not Moon Cell Boosted:
-Does not look like Excalibur
-Does not function like Excalibur

If he can't get A or B, how can he use Excalibur as a base?

Jack Roberts
Jack Roberts

He doesn't have to.
Nasu's scenario starts with Shirou at range, but Shiki charges him, kills his projections, then him.

Asher Evans
Asher Evans

Let's see, Shirou used not Mooncell boosted so:
-Does not look like Excalibur
Looks like Excalibur Morgan
-Does not function like Excalibur
Functions exactly like Excalibur. You pour prana into it and fires a beam of light with enough power to destroy the Grail.

Yeah, Shirou projected Excalibur. And I thought he actually used a similar sword, but no, it was Excalibur all along.
Thanks for enlightening me.

Ethan Hughes
Ethan Hughes

Killing Shiki is neither particularly difficult nor impressive.

Julian Thomas
Julian Thomas

semantics because you got triggered
Wonderful, but I think we both know what Nasu has decided

Ian Davis
Ian Davis

What the shit is going on in this thread.
It's not that complex people.
Shirou tracing Excalibur = shitty Excalipoor that can't even be called Excalibur and kills him to use. It's not even relevant. He'd be better off tracing Excalibur Galatine, Caladbolg, Balmung, or Clarent Blood Arthur if he can trace Mordred's ability.
When wrought iron conditions boost, he can trace a shitty Excalibur that can be called Excalibur again and doesn't kill him.

Hunter Hughes
Hunter Hughes

Whatever he used it worked just as fine.
By trying to retcon it, Nasu just created a stronger sword.

See:

-Rin Saber needed all her prana and a command spell boosted Excaliblast to destroy the shitty UBW Grail.

-Shirou, on the verge of death, without Rin giving him prana, without a command spell boost and with barely any of his prana left, projected an Anonymous Sword that destroyed the most perfect and complete incarnation of the Grail Fuyuki has ever seen.

So, there you have it, user Sword is not only stronger but more cost effective than Rin Saber's Excalibur.

Nasu is just a fucking moron, he ended up nerfing Saber and boosting Shirou.

John Sanders
John Sanders

Nero thought that too

Noah Adams
Noah Adams

You know you're reaching to preserve your precious view of canon.
Its time to let go and move on from the VN.
Nasu has.

Jeremiah Torres
Jeremiah Torres

And Nrvnqsr is the cause of at least 3 bad ends, I'm pretty sure.

Isaac Murphy
Isaac Murphy

Because Shiki was caught off guard.
Unlike Shirou, who gets victories because he's in rare form and his enemies are in poor form, Shiki gets losses when his enemies are in good form and he's in poor form.

Charles Reyes
Charles Reyes

I'm so autistic that I'd rather consider the VN not canon than admitting Nasu made a continuity mistake.
Do you happen to also like Sakura? because you could be called Neo Worm-Anon with that level of canon denial.

Alexander Barnes
Alexander Barnes

So, there you have it, user Sword is not only stronger but more cost effective than Rin Saber's Excalibur.
I told you guys nasu was a hack and you didn't wanna listen

Samuel Wilson
Samuel Wilson

This means nothing whatsoever.

Aiden Scott
Aiden Scott

And Issei killed Shirou once.

Jackson Peterson
Jackson Peterson

I'm so autistic that I'd rather consider Nasu not canon than admitting Nasu can overwrite canon

Hudson Brooks
Hudson Brooks

Yes, Shirou is also not particularly difficult to kill. He may be a magus, but he's not a very good one.
Being able to kill Shirou or Shiki is not impressive in any way. Same for Ryougi.
They are arrowheads that strike a vital point in great foes, but snapping an arrow is no amazing thing.

Leo Allen
Leo Allen

Except nothing Nasu said actually contradicts the HF canon.
Excalibur's name was never mentioned in that scene. We all just assumed it was Excalibur, but it turns out it was some other sword.

Parker Garcia
Parker Garcia

Isn't the second picture just saying that he's correct but goes against moral rights.

Ian Rivera
Ian Rivera

this desperate

Brayden Murphy
Brayden Murphy

Excalibur can deal with planetary level threats, retard.

Ian Cook
Ian Cook

Ran out of arguments already?
Nasu never said it was a retcon, he just gave us complementary information.
Now thanks to him and (you), we know that Shirou didn't actually project Excalibur but another similar sword.
This was very informative, I'm sorry you have to leave that mad, you helped us learn a lot about Shirou's awesome new sword.

Cooper Lee
Cooper Lee

It has no feats of such kind, unless you count the HG as a planetary threat.

James Gonzalez
James Gonzalez

I'm so autistic that I'd rather consider a unknown and never mentioned sword than admitting Nasu can overwrite canon

Brody Green
Brody Green

Excalibur can deal with planetary level threats
Why the fuck do people say this?
Garden of Avalon says its true power is to destroy threats not born of earth, this does NOT mean "it can destroy aristoteles".

Christopher Thompson
Christopher Thompson

No, it's pretty meaningful.

Are you the idiot who claims Saber needed a command spell boost? She didn't, retard. She was refusing to comply with Rin's order because she was close in the area and she was forcing her to obey it.

She didn't need shit. anyway, that didn't take the holy grail but capped a fucking mountain.

Shitrou just blew up the great grail which is smaller than a mountain and located underground. He merely had the roof collapse.

Julian Jones
Julian Jones

It states it destroys planetary level threats, user. Are you stupid?

Aaron Lee
Aaron Lee

We all saw the sword. It's a fact Shirou used it to destroy the Grail. Nasu never retconned this sword. Are you saying he did?

Adrian Jenkins
Adrian Jenkins

Please provide the quote that made you think this.

Grayson Powell
Grayson Powell

I'm so autistic that I'd rather consider making up headcanon than admitting Nasu can overwrite canon

Jayden Parker
Jayden Parker

Too bad it couldn't even destroy Ea, or Berserker, or the Grail without depleting Saber and making her disappear.
Not to mention a mere Bellerophon + Rho Aias beat Exalibur Morgan.
Guess Bellerophon has planet level durability.

Gavin Carter
Gavin Carter

Please provide me your quote and source first. If you want me to scan my GoA, you'll have to wait.

Excalibur is useless against Spirit of Nature (of Earth) anyway, also Nasu covered that up, because it's what its supposed to protect.

Aaron Long
Aaron Long

Yeah, you mean because she was nerfed to make Shitrou be useful aside of cooking for her? You do realize her magical energy in life was monstrous and could spam her beams, right?

Ethan Evans
Ethan Evans

Even if Nasu can overwrite the canon, he didn't overwrite anything about Shirou destroying the Grail with a projection. He just clarified it wasn't Excalibur.
Why are you so eager to have HF retconned when there's literally nothing conflicting between Nasu's statements and the route's Normal ending?

Grayson Morgan
Grayson Morgan

Garden of Avalon is already scanned.
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/914177/5c6277a9fd/
Just provide the page number.

Daniel Thompson
Daniel Thompson

Excalibur Morgan is Saber Alter's sword, and she had literally infinite prana.
And yet, her planetary busting sword failed to destroy a half-assed projected Shield and an A+ army-busting horse.

Jordan Collins
Jordan Collins

Because it rustles your jimmies.
62 (you)s this thread

Angel Foster
Angel Foster

And she was holding herself back to not bring the roof down their heads. Did you actually read the fight? Rider and Shirou were going all out while she was measuring herself.

That's the only way Shitrou can actually win: asspulls.

Jaxon Cooper
Jaxon Cooper

You're giving me as much (you)s as I'm giving you, dumbass.
It's cute that you think I'm not enjoying this as much as (you)

Nathaniel Morgan
Nathaniel Morgan

resorting to Devil's proofs
I'm sure

Parker Hughes
Parker Hughes

resorting to Devil's proofs
Literally what?
Btw, did you actually took the time to count all those (you)s or you just ctrl+f and looked at the nº of matches?

Gavin Hernandez
Gavin Hernandez

you can't prove that there was no mystery sword so there was one

ctrl-f. No one used (you) in a post before I did

Liam Peterson
Liam Peterson

Seriously? pretending to be retarded?
It's a fact Shirou used a sword to destroy the Grail. It's even shown in this CG.
Maybe next time count the (you)s manually, you may get to see stuff you missed like pic related.

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