Mary Sue vs Gary Stu

Asher Harris
Asher Harris

Sup Forums, I need your help. I gave "Medaka Box" a chance a few months ago and hated that she was "the best at everything" and that when other people were right, she was somehow "more right."

However, I started watching "Sakamoto desu ga?" and I fucking love it. What is it about Sakamoto that's different from what Medaka did? Is it the way they handle the fact that each is the greatest of all time at everything they do? I mean, I feel like Sakamoto immediately is poking fun at the concept of a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, but perhaps I gave up too early (three episodes in) to see Medaka do the same? Am I just some kind of sexist for preferring Sakamoto, the male version?

Sup Forums, how is "Sakamoto desu ga?"different than "Medaka Box"?

Carson Turner
Carson Turner

Medaka Box was written by a hack, so that's probably why.

Angel Sanders
Angel Sanders

The first chapter of Medaka Box was good. Then it turned into some shitty powerlevel bullshit shounen fighting animu.

Medaka Box was horrible.

Colton Adams
Colton Adams

Neither of those are actual Mary Sues/Gary Stus.
They are joke Sues.

Anthony James
Anthony James

Sakamoto is a kind of freaky alien dude. It's different to just being the best at everything.

Justin Diaz
Justin Diaz

Sakamoto is a weirdo, which makes it more endearing

Jacob Lee
Jacob Lee

One of those is a comedy.
The other is the chuuniest of chuuni dumb shit shonen fighting.

Connor Rogers
Connor Rogers

Medaka's sue-ness is supposed to annoy you and frustate you. Sakamoto's is supposed to make him funny.

Ryan Price
Ryan Price

You project yourself into Sakamoto. you think he is awesome and you live vicariously through him.

It's easy to tell that people who "love" Sakamoto doesn't have a fulfilling real life. Sakamoto doesn't appeal to people who have significant other, decent jobs, or families.

Brayden White
Brayden White

Sakamoto is infinitely beter because it doesn't take itself seriously.

Aiden Butler
Aiden Butler

And Medaka does? Really?

Dylan Thompson
Dylan Thompson

The whole point is that Medaka's self-righteousness and perfection is supposed to annoy you and this gets explored during the election arc.

Lincoln Jones
Lincoln Jones

Gary Stus shitting on Mary Sues is the best.

Luke Ross
Luke Ross

It's a satire so it does take itself seriously, that's the whole point.

David Foster
David Foster

perhaps I gave up too early (three episodes in)
Honestly, if it weren't for Kumagawa, Medaka Box would be complete shit. Either way, OP is a complete faggot for comparing shows he hasn't seen yet.

Bentley Baker
Bentley Baker

I think you're missing the point of Medaka Box. Medaka is supposed to be obnoxious because of how perfect she is. She's basically a deconstruction of the Mary Sue. Sakamoto is good at everything, but he's an interesting character that succeeds at winning all the time, but in the weirdest ways. Sakamoto is fun; Medaka's sue-ness is frustrating but that's the point.

Alexander Clark
Alexander Clark

Kumagawa is grossly overrated

Ryder Myers
Ryder Myers

Sakamoto won't lecture you and just goes on his life as always. Medaka will fucking beat you up if you go against her.

Sakamoto is the more endearing of the two since he's just implacable, but will never force his views on others. Medaka will though.

Cooper Jones
Cooper Jones

Sakamoto doesn't have bullshit ideals he pushes on to everybody, that's all.

Austin Thompson
Austin Thompson

They're both parodies so you're clearly sexist.

Nolan Ramirez
Nolan Ramirez

Was that what it was doing? Shame I disliked it enough to give up on it. I guess I could go back in with a different perspective. It's just that having even the sidekick guy spitting lines like pic related made me think that the whole show would be like this.

OP is a complete faggot for comparing shows he hasn't seen yet

Yeah, you're probably right. Though my basis for comparison of each show was how much I enjoyed the first three episodes of each, I suppose that's not really fair.

Jack Jackson
Jack Jackson

Mary Sue isn't about the character alone, it's an entire narrative issue where the world revolves around sympathising with and supporting the Sue, with villains denoted by their hatred of them being unfair, jealous, and superficial. Mary Sue are annoying because their melodrama and tragic backstories are trying too hard to make you side with them, and they achieve their goals because everything/one in the story bends over to enable them with commentary on how much they somehow deserve it for existing and being 'different'.

OP characters capable of great feats are not necessarily Mary Sue. Mary Sue is when everything about the story makes it shitty, thus the saying there is no good Mary Sue. The term is there for when the writer is bad at handling their indulgent concepts.

Jayden Lopez
Jayden Lopez

That doesn't make it any less annoying though. Just like ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

Adrian Diaz
Adrian Diaz

I getcha. So what's the term for these types of characters? Is there even one?

Christian Howard
Christian Howard

See .

Luke Carter
Luke Carter

I'm pretty close to the level of human trash and I hate Sakamoto

Brandon Baker
Brandon Baker

replying to a shitpost

Trash you are indeed

Logan Ward
Logan Ward

You can't compare a complete gag character to a more serious one.

Dominic Green
Dominic Green

Couldn't get into Medaka Box for the same reason. Could only last up to 20 chapters and had to drop it.

Alexander Lopez
Alexander Lopez

Medaka is still absolutely a Mary Sue by that definition though.

William Thompson
William Thompson

Not really, Mary Sue only became a thing because of the fanfiction self insert. It's a quick and easy way to point out a common problem in amateur writing and that's why it stuck, but mostly for fanfiction criticism.

I think in Japan there have been characters jokingly referred to as kanpeki or perfect types, Medaka obviously being one, but I imagine there's such a variety of ways they can be used nobody has a definitive term to fit all. Just calling them perfect or OP makes enough sense in conversation at least.

Sometimes trying to go for a standard term distracts from the real issue. Your question about Medaka versus Sakamoto makes it clear there's a difference in the character's traits and how they're presented to the audience that a single term for both wouldn't cover. Medaka worked for some people so it's not as simple as good or bad examples, more that people have preferences about personalities, what a character does with their abilities, and how other characters react to them.

Imagine if Sakamoto tried to gain attention and got a battle shounen reaction. It's not as appealing as an aloof weirdo doing absurd things in a mundane setting, because even in a battle shounen you'd want sufficient pay outs from that hype (like say, a good motive?). By keeping it mundane and incomprehensible Sakamoto can be fantastic without amping up the challenges. Medaka was set up to push boundaries, so the challenges have to match, and she's raring to go no matter how far.

Brayden Ward
Brayden Ward

I appreciate the detail in your response. It helped me to understand the difference between them better, and considering that I created the thread for that very reason, I thank you, user.

Jose Davis
Jose Davis

Medaka is a Mary Sue who hates being a Mary Sue.

Luke Adams
Luke Adams

I'm afraid I only got like 60 chapters into the series and at the start at least she has friends and acquaintances that tell her when she's being a shit, and berate her for being too cocksure and insensitive. I'll say the thing about animals was straight up Mary Sue tier grasping for a weakness that didn't really affect things. It was more an excuse for a sexy costume.

From what I understand, other characters reach ridiculous levels that take focus away from her in some arcs and even spinoffs, making her at least 10% less a Mary Sue. Discount Mary Sue if you want.

Dominic Hughes
Dominic Hughes

Average guy destroys both gary stues and mary sues

David Mitchell
David Mitchell

More like there's a character that steals the show whenever he appears. And Medaka's character puts her in a position where you want her to lose. Honestly the anime stopped before the good arcs.

Austin Barnes
Austin Barnes

You are both stupid and you have no idea what the words you are using mean.

Grayson Clark
Grayson Clark

implying Zenkichi doesn't later oppose Medaka's point

Leo Baker
Leo Baker

Was that what it was doing? Shame I disliked it enough to give up on it. I guess I could go back in with a different perspective. It's just that having even the sidekick guy spitting lines like pic related made me think that the whole show would be like this.

The whole show is like that though because the anime stopped right as the story was picking up. The problems with Medaka's perfection aren't really addressed until a later arc.

William Cooper
William Cooper

Sakamoto is a comedy first and foremost, and everyone else basically serves as the straight man to him, and he's so goofy you can't hate him.

Medaka was one of the least liked characters in her own series, literally everyone else carried the series.

Colton Harris
Colton Harris

only got like 60 chapters into the series
only started the Minus Arc
You might as well have dropped Terminator movies after seeing T3 but before T2.

John King
John King

The series still revolved around her. And in the end she was always right.

Adam Brown
Adam Brown

How does that analogy even work?
Why would you watch part 3 of something before part 2?

Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright

always right
bitch lost the election, and our boy zenkichi had to take down FRESH for her jobber ass

Isaac Roberts
Isaac Roberts

I'm saying you've sat through some of the worst parts & dropped it before the best. Also, I've seen people who watch Star Wars EP VII as their first Star Wars movie.

Jacob Turner
Jacob Turner

That's funny because chapter 21 is where they introduce the plot and things start to get good.

Dylan Sullivan
Dylan Sullivan

Yeah but she beat that one other bitch and became right again.

Caleb James
Caleb James

but she beat that one other bitch and became right again

Levi Allen
Levi Allen

I was reading it as reference for a drawfag request, it wasn't my cup of tea so to save time I skipped about and read/watched bits from further in. The later parts were far more captivating than the beginning, and of course Kumagawa stole my heart, I can't resist Megumi Ogata, but it just wasn't my thing, that's all. I appreciate what little I understand about it but don't have motivation to continue if that makes sense.

Charles Parker
Charles Parker

Medaka and Sakamoto are satire flavored Sues/Stus

Kirito and Erza are entirely serious Sues/Stus

Ryan Nguyen
Ryan Nguyen

Doesn't matter if its still shitposting; parodies are allowed to be stupid. Unironic things like the first 3 YGO MCs, Kirito, Jesus Onii-sama, and Erza Scarlet are made for ridicule; satire is satire.

Elijah Lewis
Elijah Lewis

I dropped FT 2 years ago, but Erza did not even do anything, did she?
She had like 3 fights and they were partly not even fights, everybody was just talking about how strong she was.

Robert Jones
Robert Jones

In The arc before the current one Erza beat a demon who amped up her sensitivity to pain to 100x normal, maybe? I can't remember and had stripped her of her remaining senses.
This was the explanation for that.

Ethan Ramirez
Ethan Ramirez

Power doesn't make a Mary Sue, you retard.

Jose Ward
Jose Ward

Fuck of Mashima.

Alexander Martinez
Alexander Martinez

Sakamoto
Gary Stu
Even gary stu aren't brave enough to challenge Sakamoto, what are you smoking OP?

Grayson Martinez
Grayson Martinez

Sakamoto is a japanese Mr. Bean, not a gary stu

Dylan Wood
Dylan Wood

He's a loser, what do you expect?

Julian Cox
Julian Cox

I dropped Medaka Box at chapter 1. Never read chapter 2 to 55 even until now.
And I'm one of those poster in weekly medaka box thread.

Luke Davis
Luke Davis

Medaka box is supposed to be pure meta with a battle-shounen thing tying it all together where Sakamoto is a comedy series. Medaka herself is generally considered one of the worst and least unique characters in her own series by readers whereas Sakamoto is literally so perfect that his overwhelming perfection manages to be consistently funny despite being the basis of almost every joke. It's not hard to see why someone would like one but not the other.

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