So, it's been pretty well established that the answer to "Can Shiki kill...

Austin Rogers
Austin Rogers

So, it's been pretty well established that the answer to "Can Shiki kill servants" is "technically, but he won't ever get the chance"

But I propose a brand new angle on this old pointless question

Can Shiki WORKING WITH SHIROU kill servants?

Thinking about it, it seems like they cover each-others weakness against servants pretty well. Shirou uses the bag of tricks and his overall much higher effective range via traced weapons to provide cover for Shiki, who can then get up close to stab their lines (a level of pure power that Shirou couldn't possibly reach)

Except for the part where they would probably never want to work together, I think it's a pretty solid theory.

All urls found in this thread:
http://scarletmoon.dasaku.net/?tag=tsukihime
https://mega.nz/#F!ChhQ3byQ!y7h6Th-6bY1DswbC8H0nvQ
http://rawcs.net/753.html
http://livingflcl.eva-not-end.com/manga/complete/tsukihime.html
Luis Evans
Luis Evans

Shirou can already kill servants by himself.

Adrian Johnson
Adrian Johnson

But can accelerator kill servants

Sebastian Martinez
Sebastian Martinez

Only with a bullshit list of situational powerups and other plot conveniences

If you're going down that road then we can argue stuff like "shiki could take down arcueid into 17 pieces in one second when he's literally half dead, has zero training and as his very first kill with his eyes, so if he actually worked on his assasin shit he could take down servants to" but then you're just being a dickhead about an already dickhead question

Ian Adams
Ian Adams

No because he's a character from a series that's somehow even worse about bullshit resolutions to fight scenes than fate is

James Sullivan
James Sullivan

Why do you need Shirou though? Shiki can kill servants. Discuss.

Christopher Adams
Christopher Adams

Shiki can already kill servants. Shirou can already kill servants. If they worked together, I'm pretty sure they would continue to be able to kill servants.

Gabriel Evans
Gabriel Evans

What's this one from? Melty Blood?

Julian Cook
Julian Cook

But can Ciel kill Servants? Like, real ones, not fake ones like Avenger.

Jack Ortiz
Jack Ortiz

Better yet just have shiki summon best servant with his big ass magic circuts and freeze everyone in place for double mystic eyes combi

Camden Reyes
Camden Reyes

Fate Thread

Why?

Zachary Perry
Zachary Perry

Ciel is pretty much a weaker version of Kotomine so no.

Sebastian Harris
Sebastian Harris

Can CASTER BUFFED KOTOMINE KIREI kill servants?

Jaxon Walker
Jaxon Walker

Tentatively yes, but only if she had Nanako backing her up.

Xavier Murphy
Xavier Murphy

Because Sup Forums likes shitty fiction.

Jordan James
Jordan James

Horses aren't people

Chase Diaz
Chase Diaz

Yeah, from the manga. It was a nod to a future story about Shiki and Arc.

James Fisher
James Fisher

Satsujinki or something, right?

Levi Adams
Levi Adams

/mlp/

Levi Morales
Levi Morales

Can Shirou kill Dead Apostles?

Ryder James
Ryder James

Probably.

Brayden Sanders
Brayden Sanders

The fuck is this?

Benjamin Diaz
Benjamin Diaz

Can Shiki kill Demonbane?

Mason Roberts
Mason Roberts

The only Kotomine that can even beat Ciel is Zero Kotomine with multiple CS as his disposal.

Elijah Lopez
Elijah Lopez

Can Shiki kill Dumbledore?

Ian Bennett
Ian Bennett

Both of them could beat 3rd Grail War Avenger.

Isaac Gomez
Isaac Gomez

The best Fate anime to date.

Kevin Thompson
Kevin Thompson

implying
Avenger might be shit overall, but he excels at killing humans.

Chase Harris
Chase Harris

See pic
Laugh instinctively
I don't even need to watch Carnival Phantasm, just remembering it puts a smile on my face. It's so good.

Owen Morales
Owen Morales

They can't even plan to date their harems, let alone plan to kill servants.

Juan King
Juan King

speaking about tsukihime manga, I recently read through the one based on the original game but all the extra stuff in the last volume was just untranslated

It was a download link I got from Sup Forums, is this stuff just unfinished?

Nolan Miller
Nolan Miller

Shirou killed servants solo before, so obviously he can with a teammate.

Juan Rivera
Juan Rivera

Pretty sure that's just him being able to kill them in large numbers. Cause of his demon dogs running around town.

Hudson White
Hudson White

implying Shiki won't just hold Shioru down by being another sack of meat he has to protect

Blake Flores
Blake Flores

Why was Carnival Phantasm so much better than the actual source material?

Matthew King
Matthew King

Because it's an entirely different genre, and you probably are much more interested in comedy than fantasy/action.

Nathaniel Hill
Nathaniel Hill

The real question here is: Can YOU defeat Angra Mainyu?

I mean, he's the fucking weakest, I bet at least you can kill that piece of shit, right?

Jeremiah Cook
Jeremiah Cook

Genuine question would the two of them become friends if they met?

Parker Long
Parker Long

I feel like they'd piss eachother off

Asher Campbell
Asher Campbell

Sure, why not

Caleb Hughes
Caleb Hughes

Considering his specialty is killing regular humans like me, I probably would lose badly.

Blake Cook
Blake Cook

We had Carnival Phantasm to answer that question.

Jack Evans
Jack Evans

Here's something that needs clearing up: If Rider uses Cybele on someone with high MAG their abilities go down 1 rank. Is that only for personal/class skills or does it apply to their main stats as well, like a reverse Arondight?. The in-game text flip flops on this.

David Nguyen
David Nguyen

Shirou is the kind of guy who can be anyone's friend as long as they're not a cunt.

Jaxson Garcia
Jaxson Garcia

Daily reminder that Melty Blood is superior to Fate.

Julian Wood
Julian Wood

Which is why Shiki can't be friends with him

Nathan Reyes
Nathan Reyes

I dunno if a gag series really counts as "canon", for how little that matters to type moon

shiki is a rapist and a murderer though, he's basically shinji but with redeeming qualities and better excuses for his insanity fits

Elijah Reyes
Elijah Reyes

I find that hard to believe. Aptitude/skill/Shiki-level speed aside, they should simply be incapable of actually harming Servants like that. When Assassin got nailed to a tree by Black Keys, he was never hurt.

Connor Collins
Connor Collins

Wrong, Shirou can be friends with anyone even with cunts, that's why he's Shinji's friend.

Jack Martinez
Jack Martinez

He's basically Shirou right ?
So it all comes down to beating a guy that's shorter, lighter and trains as much as you.
assuming he doesnt use magic

Ryder Sanders
Ryder Sanders

Shiki can kill servants
can Shiki WITH EXTRA HELP kill servants?
Great thread, OP. Real hard question.

John Morris
John Morris

A better question is what the fuck does the MAG stat actually do when every servant just has unlimited energy unless they don't

Asher Gomez
Asher Gomez

If Archer went back in time to destroy Avenger's catalyst before the start of the Third Grail war, would that prevent the corruption of the grail or does Avenger now exist everywhere along the timeline as the core of the Grail?

Oliver Thompson
Oliver Thompson

It's their max MP stat. Think like in FFIV where Tellah had 90 MP but Meteor cost 99 so the stress killed him when he used it. Difference is everyone except Saber could regen over time. Pretty simple, really.

Lucas Walker
Lucas Walker

Theoretically it might work but Ayala really fucking hates paradoxes and would probably forbid it from happening.

Samuel Ward
Samuel Ward

I get the concept of it, but situations like that never really come up because like you said everyone but saber can just regenerate (and saber is just so she doesn't auto win every fight)

one of my big problems with fate is that it has the silly rpg stats that sound stupid as hell, only they don't actually go into any detail about them and more or less constantly ignore the stats so shirou can manhandle gilgamesh somehow even though he's apparently like 100 times stronger than a regular human according to his rpg stats

Christopher White
Christopher White

Considering all the parallel time bullshit in the type-moon universe (I seriously hate time travel in any and all plots, it ruins everything) it might help that timeline but none of the others.

Henry Hughes
Henry Hughes

I'm tired of this question.

I have a better one. Can the gland work on Servants?

Caleb Turner
Caleb Turner

Of course it can, what kind of stupid question is that?

It works on goddamned archetype earth. If we ever get a tohnno assassin in grand order his NP will be glanding enemies into not wanting to fight anymore

Nolan Thompson
Nolan Thompson

Shirou can only cover those weaknesses for a short amount of time. Unless he has UBW up, then he's stuck in short range. Anything that isn't a sword costs extra for him trace, so a bow or any other long range weapons would be out of the question without outside prana support, like what he had from Rin in the UBW route. Unless they can kill a servant in the short amount of time that UBW is active, then they're fucked. Servants are just simply too above human levels of physical and magical performance. It's noted that UBW spam is only a mere annoyance to a servant who has mastered their own weapon. They'd just dodge or deflect until the spam ends. Only a servant like an assassin or caster would likely have trouble, other classes works would probably outlast them both.

Isaac Rodriguez
Isaac Rodriguez

Tohno gland
FGO

Now I wanna see Tohno giving the gland to Sichelgaita and Jeanne. At the same time.

Jayden Peterson
Jayden Peterson

doesn't shiki actually have a whole ton of parana, which is how he managed to make a contract with len?

Sebastian Lee
Sebastian Lee

If Shiki and Shirou were to team up, and they fought a Servant Shirou could somehow hold back, having Shiki try to kill it would be a terrible idea, since it would put too much of a strain on his brain.

If anything, people tend to forget Shiki isn't a 1-on-1 fighter (unlike Ryougi), he's an assassin. It would be a much better idea to have him seek the Servant's Master and kill him.

Carson King
Carson King

It's not that Assassin wasn't hurt, the damage was just negligible. As long as the two spiritual cores are unharmed a Servant can take anything less than getting chopped in half in a stride (provided the damage can be healed and doesn't directly attack the soul or have some curse applied). With better weapons and strikes to either the head or heart, Kirei and Kiritsugu could technically kill Servants

Kevin Hernandez
Kevin Hernandez

Can Shiki kill servants?

And I'm not talking about Nanaya Shiki, now am I talking about Satsujinki.

I'm talking about Nanaya Shiki who's had years to practice his skills and make use of his eyes, has had the lifeforce stolen from him by SHIKI returned, has been turned into a Dead Apostle by Arcueid AND Sacchin at the same time, has made a contract with Len, has borrowed the Etherlite after being trained in their use, been taught magecraft after going over the memories of Roa both him and Ciel have, has the backup of Akiha the strongest of the half demons and someone that can steal someones life or abilities with a literal glance and just raped both of the maids for the last 24 hours straight to synchronize.

Cooper Hall
Cooper Hall

Shinji
cunt
Fuck off.

Samuel Russell
Samuel Russell

Shiki try to kill it would be a terrible idea, since it would put too much of a strain on his brain.

Would it? If shiki can understand the concept of relatively powerful arcueid's death just fine for his very first use of his eyes without blacking out once, would a servant really be that far off if he just has to stab them and nothing else?

Brandon Cox
Brandon Cox

If anything, people tend to forget Shiki isn't a 1-on-1 fighter (unlike Ryougi), he's an assassin.
Isn't that what OP is saying? Having Shirou make the big flashy enterance with his traced swords while shiki sneaks behind them?

Jaxon Lewis
Jaxon Lewis

Kirei never had the extra command spells in the VN, right?

Leo Flores
Leo Flores

Yeah

Christian Ross
Christian Ross

Since they added them in the UBW anime, I'm worried they will the HF movies too. That's create the problem of Kirei no longer not having the means to kill a servant.

Aaron Howard
Aaron Howard

Not him, but I agree the stat idea was really stupid and pointless.

Julian Walker
Julian Walker

They'll just ignore it I doubt they'll make such a drastic change of having him kill assassin.

Gabriel Reyes
Gabriel Reyes

I haven't watched it yet. What did they change?

Andrew Sullivan
Andrew Sullivan

Kirei had a bunch of extra CSs, that's all. They didn't change anything in the story but they did prompt secondaries to go full frodo with why Kirei didn't use those CSs to continue controlling Lancer rather than have him suicide.

Dominic Morales
Dominic Morales

Answers to these are no. Only things with mana/magic can damage a servant. A butter knife infused with mana can hurt a servant, a nuclear bomb cannot.

Read the VN

Jace Morgan
Jace Morgan

Didnt he use those in sakura?

Brandon Butler
Brandon Butler

I thought he did, since he's the mediator of the 5th HGW. And I remember him saying he wasted his "magical crest" when he saved Sakura in HF, I thought he was just lying and used his Command Spells.

Michael Anderson
Michael Anderson

Not that I recall.

Joseph Torres
Joseph Torres

But can any of them kill Madara Uchiha?

Logan Kelly
Logan Kelly

beat the shit out of Angra
he Verg Avesta me
he was only pretending to be retarded

Sebastian Hill
Sebastian Hill

No, you're right, stats don't matter 99% of the time. I was just explaining what MAG did. Like can you name a single instance where MAG affected a fight/decision? No, it's just there for for who does and doesn't get petrified. Or stuff like Rider and Assassin having the same B-C-A physical stats yet Rider BFTOing him unarmed. Or even NP ranks being completely meaningless (ex:Gae Bolg and Gae Dearg/Buidhe being the same rank somehow). It's one of the bigger blights on the series, really.

Brayden Hughes
Brayden Hughes

The next TM project has a JAM Project OP

How fucking hype will you be?

Xavier Myers
Xavier Myers

Shiki can but he couldnt get the hit.

Just use the whole pasta as the other guy

Camden Ross
Camden Ross

Well servants stats and np are different.

Hudson Mitchell
Hudson Mitchell

This is from Unlimited Codes

Charles Nelson
Charles Nelson

I thought he was just lying and used his Command Spells.
Didn't think about it. That makes sense.

Jason Gomez
Jason Gomez

And we have this from, I don't remember from where it is, but there you go.

Elijah Green
Elijah Green

While stats on their own are not all that useful I find that comparatively between servants they do in fact give a good summary of how they all compare. It's also an easy way to show how a servant becomes stronger due to mana source, like Saber between Shirou and Rin.

Jose Turner
Jose Turner

Huh, then is probably right.

Dominic Cooper
Dominic Cooper

Anyone wanna clue in on this one? I'm actually really curious, I hadn't thought about shiki's contract with len meaning he probably has the potential to be a magus

Jayden Perez
Jayden Perez

Didn't Kuzuki have a seal as Caster's Master?

Brody Carter
Brody Carter

The comedy of Carnival was so fucking high that I thought I was watching UBW with drugs.
lol

Adrian Cooper
Adrian Cooper

He has the potential, but that would require him to actually train in it. He lacks a magic crest, which is what Rin used to give support to Shirou. He can't make the same connection to Shirou that Rin did.

Jason Thomas
Jason Thomas

No one knows?

Kevin Roberts
Kevin Roberts

What would happen if a servant was dropped into lava?

Would he casually swim in it?

Nathan Cox
Nathan Cox

Missed your post. Yes, Cybele lowers stat scores as well as abilities.

Hudson Roberts
Hudson Roberts

The wiki says this.

Kuzuki is the Master of Caster, but he is not a magus nor does he have Magic Circuits or Command Spells. He only acts as her anchor to the world, while she must subside off of the magical energy taken from the leylines and the town in order to upkeep her existence. His sperm was still capable of stabilizing her enough to establish their contract after she was brought within Ryuudou Temple’s Barrier.

Benjamin Gonzalez
Benjamin Gonzalez

Depends on the servant I guess. It'd probably melt their bodies but not touch their spirits, so they'd either need to stay in spirit form or keep pumping prana to repair their bodies.

Benjamin Jenkins
Benjamin Jenkins

If Touma touched a servant, would they disappear?

Could Touma beat Caster in a fight?

Isaiah Lewis
Isaiah Lewis

These cross franchise questions are retarded. There is no point in even thinking about it.

Luis Morales
Luis Morales

Does that mean Asuka could beat a servant as long as they fought under lava?

Alexander Morgan
Alexander Morgan

Isnt like it matters when they can just make new bodies each time they get out of spirit form so those bodies are cheap as fuck in mana.

Dylan Stewart
Dylan Stewart

The whole thread is kind of retarded.

Sebastian Gray
Sebastian Gray

But at least you can answer the questions using established lore. To answer your question is basically coming up with fanfiction.

Blake Ward
Blake Ward

Welcome to Sup Forums. Potluck on Fridays.

Brody Fisher
Brody Fisher

They are straight up immune, rock being thrown at them also does nothing. Nasu actually explained this in an interview, servants aren't strong in the material world because they can do big explosions they are strong because only things of magic nature can harm them.

Bentley Fisher
Bentley Fisher

Yes

No. Maybe depending on how much plot armor Touma has but in normal circumstances any Caster could kick his ass.

Luis Hughes
Luis Hughes

Why is everyone always talking about killing Servants, most of them are nice guys if you get to know them

Benjamin Carter
Benjamin Carter

Who made that lasagna last time? I got the shits pretty bad.

Elijah Jenkins
Elijah Jenkins

It's one of the better TM threads in a while, really.

Carson Russell
Carson Russell

moot

Matthew Evans
Matthew Evans

Yes probably, I don't see why not. Servants are magic, Touma touches magical things all the time.

Nathaniel Scott
Nathaniel Scott

Not really. I've been in three better threads in the last 3 better threads in the last three days. If only because they were about powerlvels.

Isaac Lee
Isaac Lee

Servants are ghost though.

Adrian Garcia
Adrian Garcia

Please don't do this

Nathaniel Ross
Nathaniel Ross

were
weren't*
I need to sleep.

Benjamin Wood
Benjamin Wood

Maybe his hand acts like Rule Breaker and dissolves contracts.

Think about him rescuing Servants from Masters who aren't living their lives correctly.

Xavier Martin
Xavier Martin

Odds are I was in those. This is still much more civil and has some degree of discussion and examination.

Ayden Brooks
Ayden Brooks

most of them are nice guys if you get to know them

Jaxson Edwards
Jaxson Edwards

No, the answer is "looking at a servant without his glasses on will fucking fry his brain like an egg".

I don't know how this fucking misinformation keeps spreading.

Austin Price
Austin Price

Saber and Touma will get along. Gil might like him too since Touma is strong by his own merit.

David Miller
David Miller

Why was he able to do this with Arc then?

Gabriel Anderson
Gabriel Anderson

looking at a servant without his glasses on will fucking fry his brain like an egg

Half of the things he see do this to his brain anyway.

Cooper Harris
Cooper Harris

Because she can be killed. Even then, that's just during the day. Servants are already beyond death, to kill it with a point of death would mean erasing it from the Akawhatever record. Or something like that.

Lucas Miller
Lucas Miller

if shiki can stab arcueid and also her connection with gaia he can look at servants

not to mention him doing stuff like slicing through a marble phantasm in melty blood

Parker Lopez
Parker Lopez

Sort of this. They make it pretty clear that it strains him to sight less mortal targets. Inanimate objects are hard, life in an area is super hard, cutting a servants mortal body would be easy for him but the cutting of their spirit would be the kicker.

Anthony Sanchez
Anthony Sanchez

Servants can also be killed. You're acting as if he has to erase their existence.

Aiden Morris
Aiden Morris

No, the Arc Shiki killed was just plain Arc. She wasn't using any of her powers as Archetype EARTH. If she was fully activated, trying to kill Arc would be like trying to kill the planet. The only Shiki who could pull it off is Ryougi.

Asher Murphy
Asher Murphy

to kill it with a point of death would mean erasing it from the Akawhatever record

Are you retarded? servants are just copies not the ones in the throne.

Evan Evans
Evan Evans

Ryougi cant see lines in archetype though and she actually can kill servants.

That and tohno already killed a part of gaia.

David Howard
David Howard

I'm talking about ciel route, where shiki stabs the planet itself to power down berserk arcueid

that route also has the only time in tsukhime shiki actually takes any negative side effects from using his eyes when he stabs his own goddamned lines (he gets fucked up trying to stab a concept out of kohaku in hisui good but he just gets temporary blindness and that was his second time ever cutting something so he wasn't used to it)

all the other times people talk in story about shiki getting messed up if he uses his eyes are just so he can dramatically use his eyes and not get hurt, or because kohaku has spent the entire last week poisoning him and he didn't realize thats why he feels so shitty

Ryder Wilson
Ryder Wilson

having Shiki try to kill it would be a terrible idea, since it would put too much of a strain on his brain

It wouldn't, he can kill Nero Chaos while missing chunks of his body(he's barely alive), a DAA+walking RM. He can kill ARCUEID.

A servant is nothing.

Landon Cruz
Landon Cruz

Reminder that the question asked to Nasu was whether or not Shiki could fight servants. The killing part was never put into question.

Gavin Garcia
Gavin Garcia

And that Arc can only be beaten by Gilgamesh because it's kind of a compatibility thing going on, Gilgamesh is the strongest servant.

What's your fucking point retard? Do you think Arcueid needs AE or even more than 30% to kill any servant? They're pebbles.

Jack Anderson
Jack Anderson

which is why shiki needs a buddy to cover for him

although really, he's probably better off just getting ciel to team up instead of someone he would clash with like shirou. she's secretly a really strong magus with hella high magic circuts and roas decades of knowledge so if rin can fuck up hercules she should be able to hold up quite a few servants, especially with the fact that she doesn't die even if killed.

Adam Young
Adam Young

That's a NLF and it's inconsistent. Wolves killed Heracles.

Try again next time fatefag

Asher Gonzalez
Asher Gonzalez

That was retconned in the recent adaption

Liam Flores
Liam Flores

Who the fuck mentioned Servants? Did you need to rent a crane to move that fucking goalpost?

Christian Anderson
Christian Anderson

The problem is that ciel kinda hates using roa knowledge.

That never happened though.

Not even in GO they stoped being copies user.

Xavier Reed
Xavier Reed

I remember reading in another thread about a pretty neat idea. Imagine if Shiki were in a grail war and summoned Rider. She uses her eyes to paralyze people and he steps in to kill them.

Although this wouldn't work for anyone with good magic resistance or magic resistant items like Gil.
The whole point is that if he can look at Arc, he can look at Servants. What are you talking about?

Dominic Wilson
Dominic Wilson

Who the fuck mentioned Servants? Did you need to rent a crane to move that fucking goalpost?

No, the answer is "looking at a servant without his glasses on will fucking fry his brain like an egg".

You said killing something like Arcueid would do nothing but killing servants would fry his brain, you're fucking retarded. You said he could do it because it was "normal" Arcueid, but "normal" Arcueid is already stronger than servants

Carson Young
Carson Young

The problem is that ciel kinda hates using roa knowledge.

It's nothing like Gilgamesh hating to use EA against mongrels or some shit like that.

Ciel just prefers not to use Roa's magic, if it's needed she will, that's it.

William Smith
William Smith

No, the answer is "looking at a servant without his glasses on will fucking fry his brain like an egg"

That's not even my post, idjit.

Aaron Bailey
Aaron Bailey

Gilgamesh is the strongest servant
Effectively retconned. There are several servants that easily rival his power. Strange Fake has Alcides (Herc) archer who completely laughs off the full force of the GoB. Nothing shy of Gil using Ea can rival him in that matchup. Karna has several top tier NPs and skills that surpass most servants. Enkidu is equal to Gil but he lacks the shitty attitude. And that's only a few. They're all worth several servants in power and versatility.

Ryder Ross
Ryder Ross

stronger than servants
Strength isn't the important factor.

Nathaniel Clark
Nathaniel Clark

all these tsukifags arguing against word of god
Tbh ur allretarded oniifam

Noah Evans
Noah Evans

Not him but that post is what spared the reply chain.

Lucas Watson
Lucas Watson

The problem is that ciel kinda hates using roa knowledge.

thats what makes it such a cool story hook, she's torn between reminding herself of the monster she was and tohno-kun eating shit without her full help

yeah I saw that one

keep in mind that cybelle even fucked up archer real fast and he has some solid magi resistance stats, so basically anyone besides saber/gil is screwed

Could rider have shiki ride on belle with her? I forget exactly how the girdle works

Jack Long
Jack Long

If you've already answered "Can Shiki kill servants" with a "probably" then why the hell would you even ask a "Can Shiki PLUS X kill servants" question?

Jayden Cruz
Jayden Cruz

The whole point is that if he can look at Arc, he can look at Servants. What are you talking about?

My point is that regular Arc is far weaker than AE, and thus less risky to look at,

Christopher Peterson
Christopher Peterson

Effectively retconned. There are several servants that easily rival his power.
Except so far there are none stronger than him

Strange Fake has Alcides (Herc) archer who completely laughs off the full force of the GoB
I've read SF, Alcides can counter GoB, big deal Shirou Emiya can do it too.
In fact Alcides says that GoB would only do shit against a half-wit or someone that needs to git gud.

Gilgamesh never went serious against him.

Karna has several top tier NPs and skills that surpass most servants.
Karna admitted being weaker than Gilgamesh, he himself said that he would lose if they fight.

Enkidu is equal to Gil but he lacks the shitty attitude.
Kinda true, Enkidu was equals to Gilgamesh back then, there might be some stuff that Gil got after Enkidu's death.

Xavier Carter
Xavier Carter

as one of the people that inadvertently started this post chain let me restate what I'm saying

shikis first use of his eyes outside of cutting wood a couple times as a kid was to slice someone so throughly she had to make an entire brand new body and lose tons of power in the process

he did this on someone who, even without AE, is stronger than most servants

he didn't have any issues with his eyes frying

Brayden Reed
Brayden Reed

Ciel is pretty amazing actually

She's not just skilled in martial arts, though. The knowledge of sorcery that she inherited from Roa is equivalent to that possessed by a magus of the rank of Grand – the highest rank in the Association. Even in the Church, where sorcery is officially forbidden, this is regarded as a highly useful asset.

Jaxon Moore
Jaxon Moore

Arcueid has a mistery higher than servants, she's basically Crimson Moon by herself, and she's literally Gaia in AE form.

Isaiah Thompson
Isaiah Thompson

ciel could qualify for like 4/5 classes as a servant

Jacob Ross
Jacob Ross

strong and independent mary sue character made to fall for otakus dick
What did you expect

Ryder Taylor
Ryder Taylor

It wasn't something as simple as falling in love, of course. It's just that she was moved by the fact that Shiki could lead such a carefree life despite having experienced death just like she had.

Leo Nelson
Leo Nelson

Karna admitted that in CCC.where he was nerfed to hell and back by Jinako. He was a walking corpse at one point. He didn't even have his armor in CCC. It was already directly stated that they're at least equal.

Alcides shrugged it off with no effort whatsoever, something not even Emiya did.

It really doesn't matter what he gained afterward, because Enkidu makes his own shit to counter it.

Not to mention abominations like Pale Rider.

Lincoln Gonzalez
Lincoln Gonzalez

What language do the singers in Kajiura's soundtracks sing?

Jayden Collins
Jayden Collins

How well or badly would Alice's Crown Phantasm do against an average Servant?
While he may not use it smartly, I think one of the reasons he's considered the strongest is because of how extensive his armory is and how he should be able to counter most things. People forget that it's in this context that he's called the strongest in FSN. Ea was just a plus.

Jeremiah Richardson
Jeremiah Richardson

Karna admitted that in CCC.where he was nerfed to hell and back by Jinako. He was a walking corpse at one point. He didn't even have his armor in CCC. It was already directly stated that they're at least equal.

No, Karna said he would lose, he didn't say "hey my CCC version is weaker but i'm stronger xD Gil!". He said that he would lose against Gilgamesh if they ever fought again.

Alcides shrugged it off with no effort whatsoever, something not even Emiya did.

Shirou did nothing either, he just made his blades counter GoB and then went melee against Gil. The only struggle he had in the fight was going melee countering GoB wasn't a problem.

Gavin Mitchell
Gavin Mitchell

You seem to be a secondary that watched the UBW anime. Let me tell you, Shirou had no problems countering Gate of Babylon, him jumping around and flying like superman is just to make the animated fight look cool.

You should stop posting things you've read in the wikia or Sup Forums.

Parker Flores
Parker Flores

Enough debate. Post lewd TM girls.

Camden Johnson
Camden Johnson

assassin, caster are for sure

then I guess saber and/or archer depending on how you count black keys?

Maybe a berserker for when she was all roa'd up doing shit for the evilulz?

rider with a specialty in mounting lamposts?

Wyatt Walker
Wyatt Walker

I looked around on google and it seems to be a fake language based on the phonetics of Italian and Latin.

Daniel Thompson
Daniel Thompson

Kiri Nanaya once dragged a demon under a table and dismembered it.

Shiki is stronger than that

Cameron Richardson
Cameron Richardson

It's called "we try to sounds epic xD" language. Kajiura is such a hack.

Charles Reyes
Charles Reyes

Except that's not what I'm referencing. I'm talking about the fact that he was extremely limited in his means to counter it. He was on a timer with UBW. He was on borrowed mana just to be able to use it. Alcides just did stood there and was perfectly fine. Get off your high house and don't assume shit.

Caleb Martin
Caleb Martin

Oh, then I guess I don't have to feel guilty about butchering a fake language when I try to sing along.

Brayden Morales
Brayden Morales

I think I can see the lines

Adrian Butler
Adrian Butler

I doubt enkidu could counter ea and enkidu (funnily enough).

Jackson Rogers
Jackson Rogers

Enkidu doesn't have divinity, so the chain isn't shit. Enkidu's NP, Enuma Elish, is a direct counter to Ea. So he can actually do both of those things.

Matthew Cruz
Matthew Cruz

Enkidu was made by gods and his "parents" are also gods in fact the king of gods and the mother of creation. So I bet it would work.

Isaiah Perez
Isaiah Perez

The real quesrionnwe should be asking isn't whether Shiki can kill servants, but which Shiki is best Shiki.

SHIKI >Shiki > Shiki > Shiki = SHIKI > Shiki > shit = Shiki

Liam Martinez
Liam Martinez

SHIKI>Shiki
Nope

Austin Ross
Austin Ross

Which shiki could kill servants the fastest?

Xavier Cook
Xavier Cook

Shiki could without a doubt.

Josiah Bailey
Josiah Bailey

Wait, didn't Nasu said Tohno will fry his brain perceiving a servant's line?

Chase Hall
Chase Hall

Can Shiki kill Shiki?

Brody Richardson
Brody Richardson

shit = Shiki
What the fuck are you doing?

Tyler Thompson
Tyler Thompson

No?

Ryder Garcia
Ryder Garcia

Of course, tohno will destroy ryougi anytime

Matthew Stewart
Matthew Stewart

Stop this meme Nasu fucking said Ryougi is second only to arc. Don't cry to me about void or whatever it's still Ryougi.

Alexander Nguyen
Alexander Nguyen

it's still ryougi
Just like Caster Cu is still lancer who can use gae bolg right?
Try not to be an idiot next time

Aaron Edwards
Aaron Edwards

What if it was all the other shikis vs ryougi?

Jackson Reed
Jackson Reed

Your argument makes no sense. Ryougi isn't a summoned servant with restrictions she's one person. Nonetheless if you're going to say Tohno beats Ryougi and then put restrictions on Ryougi you've already lost.

Samuel Cruz
Samuel Cruz

m8, Nasu himself said her only chance to fight average servants defensively is in her 3rd personality while she will be destroyed in her usual personality. So are you claiming that her power in her usual personality is next to arcueid because "it's still ryougi"?

Alexander Flores
Alexander Flores

I'm saying you can't fucking discount it because "void doesn't count" like you faggots always claim because void is still fucking Ryougi. I don't know why you faggots can't fucking cope with the idea that Ryougi could ever beat Tohno.

Adam Smith
Adam Smith

Because we're not talking about Void when we're ralking about Ryougi vs Tohno you fucking idiot, it's a common sense that we're talking about average Ryougi. You're technically shitposting if you bring Void in this argument, Idiot.

Asher Reed
Asher Reed

The question is do Shiki and Medusa have a mystic eye battle to the death or do they spend the entire time trying to dominate each other through mana replenishment?

Hudson Price
Hudson Price

You're putting restrictions on Ryougi, you dumbfuck. Tohno only wins if you don't get them at their best so that's the situation you chose just to protect your pathetic headcanon of Tohno being the strongest ever. When you ask who wins and have to put restrictions on one of the characters that character clearly wins.

Julian Nelson
Julian Nelson

Not him but when you're talking about Shirou you don't include him with Archer's arm. There's a base rate of a character and then some characters have bullshit mode.
To use another series as a reference, when you talk about hibiki you don't mean zerker biki or X-drive biki, just Standard Biki.
Calm down.

Brayden Thomas
Brayden Thomas

look bub
the question is a meme invoked to create generals in which to shitpost

in a series literally written as a series of convenient plot devices to further vague contradictory mythology like magics, and servants

power levels in general suck; people should like the vagueness and only appreciate instances precisely because they are situational

Connor Brown
Connor Brown

In the case of Shirou that's because their are different routes that do different very different things. Ryougi is one person.

Jackson James
Jackson James

*there

Nathaniel Lewis
Nathaniel Lewis

That might be true of routes but it doesn't change anything about how most people would discuss biki. That's just one character who has progressed across a timeline. You take biki as is not with specific circumstances but in the most likely ones. Not in X-drive, not with the zerker, not with the controlled zerk armour just as is.

Nathaniel Russell
Nathaniel Russell

But THAT'S HOW HE FUCKING KILLS PEOPLE ANYWAY. He never applies knife to face, he's always PSH-nothing personnels people from the root with his eyes.

Christian Murphy
Christian Murphy

that restriction is necessary idiot, there's no point in discussing an extremely one sided fight.
While Average Ryougi vs Tohno discussion is not as one sided as the other one and we can regard it as a proper discussion

Nathaniel Gonzalez
Nathaniel Gonzalez

I don't watch synohogear but I'm guessing it's just a character in a specific scenario gains certain powers that would be a fair argument if that were the case with Ryougi. Void is always a part of Ryougi and doesn't come out under some specific set of circumstances so saying it's not applicable is just putting restrictions on her so she can lose.

Parker Turner
Parker Turner

Late. The D R A G O N D I C K is superior in any way or form.

Grayson Thomas
Grayson Thomas

The better question is can Shiki and SHIKI kill Shiki and SHIKI while Shiki watches?

William Martinez
William Martinez

How is an actual superhuman versus a human with above average training not one sided. Also if it were a discussion fair enough point no such discussion was taking place or was even being attempted. And don't tell me was your attempt at having a discussion.

Jason Ross
Jason Ross

Doesn't Tohno have far superior physical stats than Ryougi? At that point I think Tohno wins the fight unless Void starts cutting distance or time. Void is still limited by the shell that is Ryougi.

Cooper Reyes
Cooper Reyes

i said "not as one sided"

implying that's me

Evan Davis
Evan Davis

For the longest time she had the potential to 'zerk' if she let herself get into it and always has, technically, had the potential to X-drive (assuming necessary phonic gain- which translates roughly to how much the plot wants it). There's no point discussing biki at her best because most of the series she hasn't been God-mode X-drive or regrowing arms as 'zerk biki.

In power wank the valid average and comparison point is the characters mode not their median or mean, certainly not their upper bound

Easton Barnes
Easton Barnes

Void is Akasha which is where Tohno's MEoDP even come from. So no.

Justin Wright
Justin Wright

X-drive is super arbitrary, it just means "it's the end of the series and the heroes need to kick ass really hard"

Like Biki was shooting fucking lasers out of her fists in S1, then X-drove twice more and we never saw that again. Vague and inconsistent powers.

Adrian Long
Adrian Long

I know all that see expanded point here:

Zachary Turner
Zachary Turner

Again I don't know anything about symphogear but makes it sound like the creators are just having fun which you obviously can't include in a "who wins" scenario. And again void isn't something she has to "get into" or whatever she's just there.

Charles Adams
Charles Adams

He overstates a lot of things. The power is pretty consistent, especially when in standard modes. There are clear differences capabilities between characters. Biki's zerker form was within her the whole time too but my point is, if it isn't used the majority of the time then don't count it in a power wank fight.

Ayden Brown
Ayden Brown

I disagree wholeheartedly if it were a discussion I would agree. But this was a statement of "X beats Y" and when you have to put a restriction on Y it's moronic and clearly your just pandering to your own view. If some one said "of course, x will destroy hibiki anytime" would you not say that's wrong? Because that is exactly

Andrew Kelly
Andrew Kelly

I suppose there's more to it in this situation than generally. I was just saying, while comparing feats is fine comparing situational sits poorly with me.

Jose Barnes
Jose Barnes

comparing feats is fine
fine

Evan Torres
Evan Torres

He does have them faggot, just disguises it as "disposable family Crest" (no such thing, even Rin is suspicious). He uses them all to remove most of Sakura's worms.

Evan Diaz
Evan Diaz

You want to explain your point? Even without the eyes, Tohno still has superior physical abilities.

Cooper Lopez
Cooper Lopez

Of course but only after he becomes a good guy.
Practically: Shiki and Shirou can kill anything since they're MCs so they never really lose or die.

Christian Brown
Christian Brown

If Touma touched a servant, would they disappear?
I don't think so remember F/0 lancer had that spear that ignored magic shit. well if servants could be destroyed by anti-magic shit that spear wouldn't be able to hurt servants

Parker Morales
Parker Morales

since they're MCs so they never really lose or die.
Apart from all those bad ends. Which outnumber the good ones.

Matthew Turner
Matthew Turner

He is not shirou you fucking scrub.

Lucas Sullivan
Lucas Sullivan

How well or badly would Alice's Crown Phantasm do against an average Servant?
Young Aoko BTFO Flat. Sensei Aoko is equal to Servant with average NP

Parker Morales
Parker Morales

But she only managed it because she used the mana that Flat was generating. So obviously most Casters would be able to do the same. I can't possibly see how any of the Hassans would deal with him though, could they even reach him?

Let's not forget that the big rock of ice was a magical object so it would actually hurt servants if you crushed them with it.

Aaron Parker
Aaron Parker

Aoko was benefiting from the mana in the atmosphere, the mana from Snark. Not to mention Aoko specializes in destruction, so beaming things is what she is best at.

Flat Snark's ice meteor would have destroyed the theme park which had grown to the size of a city. Most Servants without an anti-fortress NP would't be able to win against it.

Nathan Gray
Nathan Gray

Do you think Fine and Kirei would meet and think of ways to troll their series's casts like powelevel discussions?

Isaac Anderson
Isaac Anderson

Apparently he can't because NP used by regular humans won't do shit to them.

Gavin Rivera
Gavin Rivera

Literally me IRL

Brody Rodriguez
Brody Rodriguez

Not him but are you really asking for the abilities of Void? She could kill his existence with a thought.

Samuel Sanders
Samuel Sanders

NLF
That's not a real fallacy. Go back to your battle forum nigger.

Nathaniel Morris
Nathaniel Morris

Saber kills Berserker in the first battle

Camden Flores
Camden Flores

Why are the Tsukihime heroines better than the Fate heroines?

Ayden Perez
Ayden Perez

I feel like medusa and shiki would actually get along really well, they both kinda introverted and their two biggest personality traits are "hella devoted to people they care about, fuck the rest" and "doesn't want to be a monster"

also assuming that wasn't just part of ciels hypnosis shikis type are older women that wear glasses

Brandon Gray
Brandon Gray

because tsukihime came out first

rin in particular has the exact same emotes as akiha does

Easton Butler
Easton Butler

they get along in the type-moon fes 2012 drama CDs

Lincoln Richardson
Lincoln Richardson

Yes. Well if Best Shiki and Shero work together they can kill servants too. I wish Nasu didn't ignore Kara no Kyoukai and made Ryougi a MC.

Logan Carter
Logan Carter

Nobody wanted to scanlate the Ciel-sensei chapter (well, there was that one French guy on wakachan's /fate/ board) and no company is interested in localizing it, sadly.

It's a shame because the scanlations for v5 and v6 are just awful.

Gabriel Taylor
Gabriel Taylor

Ayala
Who?

Jordan Gomez
Jordan Gomez

wow, I didn't expect I'd ever get an answer. Thanks.

Why the hell did nobody scanlate it? Who scanlates MOST of a volume? I noticed a couple bits in other volumes where it would just not be translated for a couple pages too but those were just scenes from the VN so I didn't care.

Sebastian Miller
Sebastian Miller

The Counter Force

Mason Flores
Mason Flores

231 replies and 28 images omitted.

...I need a second...

Jace Walker
Jace Walker

The subconscious of all hoomans. It produces guard counters for the Normal Force.

Anthony Cooper
Anthony Cooper

Then just use a silver knife or something

Sebastian Moore
Sebastian Moore

Why didn't the Einzberns check properly whether or not Angra Mainyu is real before they summoned him?

Matthew Rodriguez
Matthew Rodriguez

How? Without a time machine, summoning him is the only way to truly know.

Parker Jenkins
Parker Jenkins

Or probably the real Angra Mainyu didn't wanted to be summoned and the grail just grabbed the closest thing it had at the moment.

Cooper Jones
Cooper Jones

Do I need to play those kind of game with stats and shit to know as much as you anons do about nasuverse or the VN will be enough?

Jeremiah Brooks
Jeremiah Brooks

The VN is the source material for Fate. Everything after it expands on it. Nasuverse is more than just fate though. Mainly there's Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai.

I don't think I have it with me but maybe another user has the pic that explains what to read and or watch in what order.

Lincoln Adams
Lincoln Adams

Favorite moment in Type-Moon VNs?

Fate/Stay Night
Lorelei in HF

Tsukihime
The midnight conversation with SHIKI in Kohaku's route

Carson Morgan
Carson Morgan

Even then, it kind of goes overboard in some areas.

David Clark
David Clark

pic related

Colton Baker
Colton Baker

chosing Archer UBW rather than Archer HF where he achieved the same conclusion without going through all the drama and actually being fucking useful

You've got low standards

Caleb Allen
Caleb Allen

Thanks that's really a lot of material but being a secondary is suffering.
I will pick up the things I see discussed here usually.

Thomas Reyes
Thomas Reyes

The Ciel-sensei chapter thing was ignored for some reason, along with the extras in v8 or v9

http://scarletmoon.dasaku.net/?tag=tsukihime

Español - https://mega.nz/#F!ChhQ3byQ!y7h6Th-6bY1DswbC8H0nvQ
Japanese - http://rawcs.net/753.html
Russian - http://livingflcl.eva-not-end.com/manga/complete/tsukihime.html

Jacob Parker
Jacob Parker

So did Shiki fuck Akiha after she turned into sexdoll?

Josiah Ramirez
Josiah Ramirez

Wouldn't she bite his dick off to get at all the tasty blood/bodyheat a boner has?

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