Why did America get cucked so bad in Vietnam?

Gabriel Ramirez
Gabriel Ramirez

Why did America get cucked so bad in Vietnam?

All urls found in this thread:
https://youtu.be/Fj5k6toS7i8
http://lwd.juncao.org/Scripts/edit/attached/file/20171021/20171021091804_13133.htm
Brody Brooks
Brody Brooks

cucked
You sure for long time?

Blake Perry
Blake Perry

Guerrilla warfare
Happens to almost every big country.

Mason Flores
Mason Flores

It was weapons testing not a real war.

Jason Nguyen
Jason Nguyen

public appearance issue. literal loss of the war was due to congress saying we lost.

Leo Young
Leo Young

Because of French colonialism.

Mason Cox
Mason Cox

Superior numbers.
Superior firepower.
Superior resources.
???
America was like a starving dog in Vietnam while the farmers had national conscription, tons of guns from Communism worldwide and supply lines that consisted of keeping people with food in their bellies and bullets in their guns.
Like Stalin said "Quantity is a quality of it's own". Add this to a lack of support in the home country and the war was a huge farce.

Be America.
Spend 100x what everyone else does for a 1% increase in individual combat effectiveness.
Think they are great because their budget is big.

Eli Reed
Eli Reed

Hippies

Nolan Morris
Nolan Morris

Pretty much because it was guerrilla warfare, the US military up until then only ever really fought true armies.

We would have "won", however the war was extremely unpopular in the US and it forced congress to cease all military occupation of Vietnam.

Logan Ortiz
Logan Ortiz

this burger damage control

hilarious.

Jordan Moore
Jordan Moore

Geneva convention

when you limit yourself in war to never attacking civilians, you will always lose to those that don't

Elijah Thompson
Elijah Thompson

??? Nigga your every single soldier said that you lost the war

Kayden James
Kayden James

Somewhat relevant

Benjamin Thomas
Benjamin Thomas

ME KEK YOU LONG TIME

Evan Peterson
Evan Peterson

umm sweetie have you looked at their casualty numbers?

Benjamin Clark
Benjamin Clark

We won the war stupid ass

Nathaniel Price
Nathaniel Price

Lots of reasons. Ill-prepared for this type of war, waging a war at home with protesters, unable to really bring all their weapons to bear because 'muh innocent chinks'.

It was winnable but we were so scared for our image. And oh look, it damaged our image anyway.

Alexander Flores
Alexander Flores

i think you have to be 13 to not understand
it was 50 years ago
there are hundreds of books

Ryan Stewart
Ryan Stewart

muh K/D ratio
that is completely irrelevant - the US accomplished NOTHING it set out to achieve and was devastated, all because of engaging in a war we had no business being in.

Andrew Scott
Andrew Scott

Media coverage of the war shown to the american public, the army not being fully prepared of the type of war being fought and support from china I guess

Mason Robinson
Mason Robinson

We won the war stupid ass

Bentley Carter
Bentley Carter

Because instead of steamrolling the North, they fought a pointless defensive war trying to prop up a completely rotten and corrupt South.

Chase Sanders
Chase Sanders

muh K/D ratio

Westmoreland pls go

Grayson Gutierrez
Grayson Gutierrez

vietnam is a commie country
"we won guys"

Josiah Robinson
Josiah Robinson

holy shit thats epic

Jaxon Parker
Jaxon Parker

OP must be retarded cf

Jaxson Sullivan
Jaxson Sullivan

The picture lacks photos of all kinds of the most advanced Soviet AA missile systems at the time, with crews too.

Chase Howard
Chase Howard

Let's keep a tally of American (and allied) excuses, it's always fun reading, so far we have:

Nobody ever won against guerillas
It was weapon testing
Stab in the back (congress)
Would have won if we attacked civilians (?)
Muh K/D-ratio

Blake Cox
Blake Cox

Basically shitty liberal reporters eroding the public's opinion of it.

Also massive stacks of support from the chinks to the Charlie.

Also cos they couldn't be fucked with it all anymore - it was all political bullshit.

Brody Wright
Brody Wright

They got flooded with slide threads

Reminder just how corrupt DC is
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Gabriel Jones
Gabriel Jones

Simple. America never fully committed to Vietnam.

Jose Jackson
Jose Jackson

I highly doubt any other military on the planet would have had an easier time in the same situation.

Fuck even in a joint effort we can't even dislodge terrorists in Mudhuts in the Middle east permanently.

Matthew Long
Matthew Long

how about a rematch, faggots

Elijah Gonzalez
Elijah Gonzalez

we killed more of them despite achieving nothing therefore we won
nigger logic

Kevin Nguyen
Kevin Nguyen

Americans will come up with any excuse for Vietnam. It's something that exposes their inferiority complex.

Chase Lopez
Chase Lopez

Nobody ever won against guerillas
It was weapon testing
Stab in the back (congress)
Would have won if we attacked civilians (?)
Muh K/D-ratio
We never really tried, really you guys
If we can't, no one could (which proves what?)

Adam Anderson
Adam Anderson

Why did you even go to war with Vietnam?
Do they have oil, or nukes?

Sebastian Long
Sebastian Long

Kill yourselves

Liam Evans
Liam Evans

Trying to defend South Vietnam from their conquerors was deluded to begin with. It was like trying to conquer Turkey by backing the Kurds.

Ian Martin
Ian Martin

More like the war was lost because the media war at home was lost, with zero support for the war they were forced to pull the troops out.
More than that though Nam gave US special forces a lot of time to perfect their craft. Richard Marcinko really started to prefect the seals during Vietnam.

Robert James
Robert James

they wuz threathning us
half way across the globe

Justin Reyes
Justin Reyes

Good thing South Vietnam got control over the country as a result of the war then. Oh wait.

Nicholas Gray
Nicholas Gray

Something something Communism. I don't remember the exact reason.

Benjamin Collins
Benjamin Collins

The US had won the war, driven the North to peace talks and was set to secure the South. Then the president changed and congress refused to honor the agreement to supply weapons to the South.
US news falsely reported the Tet Offensive as a massive loss for the US and the public turned pressing for a withdraw that lead to the total cutting of funding by 76.
Also the last few former SS units being employed by the French left.

In short the Democrats doomed the south to communist occupation because they didn't want to spend 1 billion a year on supplying US made weapons. Fuck all democrats. If only niggers could be trusted to work in a weapons factory the Dems could make them earn their gibs.

Michael Scott
Michael Scott

We failed to use nuclear weapons or VX nerve gas. That would have quickly won the war.

John Butler
John Butler

Don't worry we had agent orange and napalm, that showed those commie fucks who is in charge

Justin Phillips
Justin Phillips

They were a French colony and post WW2 France over extended itself trying to refrain some national pride.

That coupled with America's fear of domino theory regarding communism was enough for us to intervene.

Camden Nguyen
Camden Nguyen

Vietnam was not a military loss by any means. We lost the war at home. People didn’t like it anymore. With waning support at home and possible war with China looming. It wasn’t worth it anymore. Technically, almost every battle we fought the casualties on their side were horrible. If we continued to fight it would have been an attrition war and we might have won. We simply had more people and less losses.

Bentley Scott
Bentley Scott

France got BTFO so USA came in for an honour killing to be returned with a black eye and a bloody nose.
Similar to Korea except South Vietnam got annexed the moment the USA looked away.

Nicholas Davis
Nicholas Davis

You do realize that the North only accepted peace talks, which you were DESPERATE for, because you threatened to nuke them (and thus start WW3 over a small, poor jungle-nation), right? And everyone involved knew it was a farce, the southern politicians knew that it signed their doom.

The only purpose for the peace treaty was to allow the US to retreat somewhat honorably ('Peace with honor' is literally an american quote from the time), because your pride did not allow you to just call it quits and leave when you were beaten.

Luis Powell
Luis Powell

US could have won the war in months:
1. mine Haiphong harbor
2. bomb Hanoi
3. blocking force across the Ho Chi Minh Trial in Laos
4. Phoenix Program in RVN countryside

Probably would have meant the collapse of the Hanoi government too and then a reunified Vietnam which would have become prosperous and a pluralistic govt

But LBJ was a cuck

Jaxon Robinson
Jaxon Robinson

Laughable coming from swedcuckistan

Michael Ward
Michael Ward

Containment
You had China and the soviet union backing communists throughout east asia and insurgencies were going on in south vietnam and malaysia
So it was felt that if those countries went communist, so might thailand, and then indonesia, and then the phillipines, etc. Nations become really touchy if their sphere of influence is being threatened.

Daniel Richardson
Daniel Richardson

Nobody ever won against guerillas
It was weapon testing
Stab in the back (congress)
Would have won if we attacked civilians (?)
Muh K/D-ratio
We never really tried, really you guys
If we can't, no one could (which proves what?)
Starting WW3 would have equated a win somehow
Needless mass genocide is winning

Aaron Davis
Aaron Davis

Why did America get cucked so bad in Vietnam?
Liberal crybabies.

Ayden Parker
Ayden Parker

We have a enough nukes to win WWIII like 12 times over

Nathaniel Lopez
Nathaniel Lopez

They weren't really in a position to do that after the whole 'muh evil genocide empires' post WW2 propaganda.

Dylan Morris
Dylan Morris

There's a difference between "winning" and having the whole world nuked including yourselves.

Luis Smith
Luis Smith

Ya well some men just wanna watch the world burn, better hope I'm never elected president

Asher Bell
Asher Bell

Muhammad desperately tries to avoid talking about how his entire region of the world has been CRATERED

Joshua White
Joshua White

Do you even understand what you wrote?

Luke Collins
Luke Collins

You do realize that the North only accepted peace talks, which you were DESPERATE for, because you threatened to nuke them (and thus start WW3 over a small, poor jungle-nation), right? And everyone involved knew it was a farce, the southern politicians knew that it signed their doom.

The North accepted the talks after the bombing was stepped up (Linebacker II) and targeted the factories, ports and supplies dumps, and a battleship was moved in to pound the ever loving fuck out of them. The US said that if China moved in to help the US would nuke the soldiers in the field.

The only purpose for the peace treaty was to allow the US to retreat somewhat honorably ('Peace with honor' is literally an american quote from the time), because your pride did not allow you to just call it quits and leave when you were beaten.

The peace talks were entered because the North was lost and the US didn't want to occupy. However the North regrouped and broke the cease fire after the US had withdrawn as required under the peace agreement.

The US congress controlled by Dems then stopped funding the South.

Levi Russell
Levi Russell

I wrote that the US government could obliterate this world 12 times over because we have so many nukes, do you understand what I wrote?

Luis Fisher
Luis Fisher

It's a myth that there's that many nukes in the world. The truth is humans don't have enough nukes to even come close to covering ALL landmass like propaganda likes to say.

Logan Johnson
Logan Johnson

I was being facetious

Andrew Watson
Andrew Watson

And still anti-gun fags use the 'muh drone' argument claiming the people can't overthrow tyranical government.

Luis Flores
Luis Flores

You can build a gun right now that can take a drone out, you won't even need projectiles

Evan Parker
Evan Parker

ALL landmass like propaganda likes to say.
You don't need to nuke uninhabited land to kill almost everyone. Between the USA and Russia they have enough to hit even moderately sized towns with a nuke each. No need to nuke the Tibetan plateau for example no one lives there.

Ayden Miller
Ayden Miller

if you nuke your enemies, they win.

David Russell
David Russell

Whatever isn't killed by the blasts will die to the fallout thanks to wind currents

Gavin Cook
Gavin Cook

12
Lol? Pretty low number.

Connor Jenkins
Connor Jenkins

The earth was nearly wiped clean of life. A great cleansing, an atomic spark struck by human hands, quickly raged out of control. Spears of nuclear fire rained from the skies. Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans. Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth.

Jason Bailey
Jason Bailey

Celebrities lied to us and betrayed us.

Walter Cronkite in particular basically convinced the American public the Tet offensive was a massive defeat of the US, when it was actually a massive victory for us and would have led to us winning the war.

Jaxon Thompson
Jaxon Thompson

Popular support at home was significantly weakened by our defeat in Korea half a generation earlier.

U.S. Marines getting BTFO by starving Chinese peasant-conscripts running around in paper shoes with only enough guns for the first wave to carry into battle, and this only half a generation after WW2.

Korea shattered American confidence in our military's invincibility.

Eli Perez
Eli Perez

I like it, why isn't it happening now

Kevin Williams
Kevin Williams

Because Giap and co realised if you can't win on the battlefield you win by using lefty press to subvert the enemies will to fight.

Also the 1yr tour system, by the time a kid had experience he was out, to be replaced by another raw recruit.

Wyatt Perry
Wyatt Perry

America lost the war
Walk down the street in Hanoi and you see nothing but Coca Cola and McDonalds and KFC
People think the communist backed Vietcong "won" in the long term

Can't beat capitalism, friend.

You can never beat capitalism. You can set traps for the soldiers and spend your days crawling in mud, but a few decades go by and before you know it your children are part of a capitalist system. And everything you died for goes to shit.

Sebastian Cooper
Sebastian Cooper

But war.
War never changes.

Ian Barnes
Ian Barnes

Back when not having the internet made it really fucking easy to manipulate the masses. I really feel sorry for the older generations because they had to take what the government shit out to them as fact because they didn't have anywhere else to go for news.

Easton Baker
Easton Baker

Fracking.

Eli Stewart
Eli Stewart

if we make them lefties we will win because they won't fight
lose to literal communists

Blake Reed
Blake Reed

Unfortunately, all the commies are now in your education and govt sectors.
It's like the elite and the pleb went and swapped ideological roles.

Kayden Baker
Kayden Baker

Exactly and hiding in the underground tunnels would not protect them from radiation.

Questionable if the USSR or China would start WWIII over Vietnam.

Also widespread use of VX would have been better than napalm and agent orange. We had hundreds of tons of the stuff and multiple delivery methods so could have been done. Civilian losses would be high but we would have devastated the north Vietnamese army with almost zero US losses.

Grayson Young
Grayson Young

Thats the fucking hippies for you, right into education to inflict themselves on the children and now we see the results.
A generation of mentally ill people who have had their mental illness fed and have convinced the world they are sane.
The radicalized youth walking our streets dressed in all black and waving the anarchist flag, beating people and smashing businesses.
This is the result, they have sowed the seeds of discord and chaos well.

Hunter Gomez
Hunter Gomez

3,000,000 dead cong. 60,000 dead Americans dealing with new rules of engagement and gurrila gooks

Jace Cruz
Jace Cruz

No one lives there
Who are FInns

Ayden Morgan
Ayden Morgan

We killed like two million of them and it is a nation of prostitutes now, how exactly did we lose

Samuel Campbell
Samuel Campbell

Soviets lost to the Afghans in the 80 s
Soviets were losing to Finnish Rebels during WW2
Great Britain lost to the United States in 1700s
I know being Swedish makes you not understand guerilla warfare because you guys haven't had a war for a long time.
If you don't play you can't lose. Cucks

Adam Brooks
Adam Brooks

kek

Tyler Butler
Tyler Butler

Cause america was too pussy to take the fight to the people, which is how you fight harambe style warfare.

Instead they tried and failed to do a sort of reversed rome vs hannibal (in rome) by just basically doing the more of same shit they had been doing instead of changing tact.

Levi Cruz
Levi Cruz

fight like enemy has objectives
they have jack fucking shit
enemy hits you quickly and runs
they automatically win
bomb the fuck out of an area to clear it for helicoptors to land
enemy hears this and surrounds it
wonder why we lose
lol its because clearly americas spending has nothing to do with ww2 retards expecting random farmers to have shit of value
i dont know history but im gonna pretend i do anyway

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

Short answer: the North Vietnamese were willing to do literally anything it took to win, the US wasn't.

Long answer:
One of the major lessons of the Korean War for the Communist world was that the casus belli created by an open invasion was simply too strong not to provoke intervention by allies (e.g. American & cronies). North Korea's invasion of the South was a smashing success, and without American intervention the North would have been in complete control of the peninsula within, probably, about three weeks. As much of a clusterfuck as the American effort got at times, it ultimately reversed the gains the North had made and oh by the way, ended up killing fuckloads of Chinese.

Both during and after (mostly during) the North tried to use various subversive and guerrilla programs against the South, but they were ultimately ineffective; the Southern government could basically do whatever they wanted to root out guerrillas and subversives with the full moral and material support of their allies, and in fact the Americans stuck with the South Korean government through some pretty outrageous behavior.

The Americans did, however, very conspicuously refuse to attack China directly and were likewise incredibly careful to avoid antagonizing Russia (who on their part also made absolutely no effort to e.g. challenge American naval superiority).

Colton Ross
Colton Ross

We def didn't have more people. Gookers multiply like rabbits man, we could never kill them fast enough with a scorched earth policy.

Noah Gonzalez
Noah Gonzalez

100% Swede as far as records go (1600s)
Your turn Burger.

Bentley Murphy
Bentley Murphy

rip to the soldiers that died in the stupid ass war

Kevin Perez
Kevin Perez

russia could do it 14 times over
checkmate yankee boy

Landon Nelson
Landon Nelson

The North didn't win the guerilla war. The US and the South won the guerilla war.

After losing the guerilla war, the North won the war by a conventional invasion in 1975 of long columns of Soviet-made tanks, APCs, towed artillery and trucks across the DMZ and down Highway 1. The Soviets spent billions shipping arms into the North.

US airpower would have turned those long exposed columns into a highway of death, but the (((media))) had defeated Nixon and Congress prohibited the US giving aid to the South.

Joshua Cook
Joshua Cook

The glorious Australian engagement at Long Tan made it worth it.

David Stewart
David Stewart

Viet Cong didn't even have more than 200,000 soldiers so I don't know where you get 3 million from

Total deaths in Vietnam was 1 million - 3 million so I'm guessing you just assumed Vietnam was one faction

Caleb Taylor
Caleb Taylor

Compare to Vietnam. The subversive/guerrilla tactics came first, with North Vietnam avoiding an all-out invasion for decades. Yes, this did involve propaganda efforts and the South Vietnam government was somewhat inept, but *both* of these factors were *at least* as true in Korea. Instead of a massive intervention on behalf of a victimized ally, the American effort was a largely-directionless "graduated response" to prop up a questionable ally that couldn't keep its own territory under control. Then, when the RVN was totally cut off by the US, the NVA made its decisive invasion (the 1975 Spring Offensive, which by the way took six months to achieve victory despite being heavily mechanized, compared to the much lighter North Korean offensive which probably would have been over in half that time without US intervention). Basically, South Vietnam's allies hung it out to dry *before* it was invaded outright.

Geography played a role too. Just look at a map; without an Indochinese DMZ all the way to Rangoon, it was much easier for the NVA to keep forces in the South supplied. Interestingly though, American (and RVN) forces were so much more tactically mobile than in the 1950s that this may not have made as huge a difference as you might think. Still, such a DMZ might have shut down the initial guerrilla phase of the Northern effort, and forced them to resort to a (doomed) invasion or continue with increasingly ineffective irregular measures (like North Korea)

Justin Rogers
Justin Rogers

Lots of factors, limited deployments and the ineffective nature of rotational duties meant constant interruptions from the top down in terms of fighting ability and strategy, an awful COIN strategy, failure to establish a competent and trustworthy government in the south (which in turn eroded the support of the people we were meant to be "keeping free") that was free from corruption, domestic political pressure (we had no real business being in Vietnam anyways), and the simple fact we were fighting men and women who were on their home turf who were motivated ideologically to resist what they perceived (rightfully so) were foreign invaders.

Vietnam was a shit show, and there is a reason why Americans have such a sour taste in their mouths when they recall the war.

Sure, we stacked bodies all up and down that country, and broke the VCs back during Tet, but we still never gained the trust of the south Vietnamese nor did we completely halt the progress of Communists psyops campaigns in the south (you know you're losing when the people are shooting you in the back and booby trapping your logistics).

Christian White
Christian White

Same reason gun ownership is so important.

Elijah Bailey
Elijah Bailey

well america cucked itself on that one if you read more you will learn also how you left the south lose
but to be honest the vietnamese cucked quite a few people the french you then after the chinks

Kayden Williams
Kayden Williams

Americans always fight like cowards,that's why they never win any wars,not just in Vietnam but also in Afghanistan and Iraq.Run away before you can fully lose but still lose nonetheless.

Cowards.

Luke Foster
Luke Foster

Vietniggers get raped and cant do shit about it
jungle and mosquitos are more lethal to attackers than Vietniggers
mountains of dead Vietniggers later attackers leave for reasons mostly or completely unrelated to Vietnigger forces
Vietniggers celebrate another "decisive victory" to add to their history books

Christian Cook
Christian Cook

No they didn't. Faggot

Ayden Davis
Ayden Davis

The Vietnam war in my opinion was just a continuation of the Vietnamese "War of Independence", in no scenario were we ever going to secure the trust and support of the domestic population.

The people fighting us were far too ideologically motivated to unite their country and free themselves from foreign interference that they were doing whatever was required to win (Ho Chi Min trail for example is a ridiculously impressive logistics operation conducted by essentially dudes and women hiking through jungles), not to mention the staggering humanitarian cost they paid to continue fighting (the Tet Offensive shattered the manpower of the VC yet they still continued to fight and regroup the following years).

We just never were going to win there, no matter how many people we killed.

Just like the British would have never defeated the American Colonists.

Kayden Rodriguez
Kayden Rodriguez

we won
US education

Liam Rogers
Liam Rogers

Look at the causality numbers and tell me how the US lost the war. The somalis thought the same after the Mogadishu raids, but 100 of ours killed thousands of theirs.

Cooper Cooper
Cooper Cooper

Eventually the Viet Cong (South Vietnamese guerrilla fighters) petered out (after the Tet Offensive). This is where the hard number come in. North Vietnam at the time had a very high Total Fertility Rate (~7, I think), and was totally mobilized for war. Basically, the numbers worked out to around 250,000 new potential recruits every year, and they were recruited, trained, and sent to fight (this is not a trivial accomplishment, by the way). Both Westmoreland and Giap viewed the war as essentially one of attrition. In other words, the American strategy was to kill North Vietnamese troops faster than they could be produced. Westmoreland believed he could definitely do it, IIRC, exhausting the NVA by 1970 with 700,000 troops, which was far less than the ~1.2million estimated as needed for invasion and occupation of the North. With the 550,000 he was actually got, he estimated he might be able to muddle through but it would be messy because he would about break even -- roughly killing North Vietnamese at equilibrium. That Westmoreland didn't resign over this is a massive indictment of his character.

This strategy, by the way, is the source of all the stuff about "body counts" and "kill ratios" from the war.

Anyway, that's pretty much what happened. The North Vietnamese did in fact come very close to suing for peace around 1969-70, but ultimately persevered, perceiving correctly that the Americans couldn't keep it up. (FWIW, I don't think they would have given up for good anyway). The NVA for their part knew they were engaged in a huge meat grinder and made extensive efforts to repress the scale of their losses domestically.

Justin Barnes
Justin Barnes

Tet also killed their command structure so it is up for debate how effective they would have been after it if the war gone on for a few more years
on your second point both america and britain could have won but the cost was to great and the gains are little
also keep in mind the vietnamese and you back in the days had outside help

Justin Murphy
Justin Murphy

people thought the war was with vietnam
people think the goal was not letting them be commies

It was a war to show russia america won't let them do whatever they want.

Gavin Gomez
Gavin Gomez

The Vietnamese won the way themselves, they had outside support but they also had the widespread support of the Vietnamese people themselves which is the most important factor in war, especially in COIN.

We lost Vietnam the moment the people turned their backs on the South Vietnamese government.

While the VC command was shattered like I mentioned, the NVA was becoming an effective fighting force by 1969 defeating their peers from the south in open contact repeatedly. They wanted to win, and they were willing to die for it, the South Vietnamese at no point were willing to do that beyond a handful of elements such as their Tiger forces that we embedded with ODAs.

We still had battalion sized elements engaging one another in Vietnam well into the early 70s.

Sure, we could defeat the NVA in the field, but the VC would erode any progress we made in the South and were a constant threat to everything from our airbases to our naval logistic ports (Cam Ranh Bay specifically), combine that with the South Vietnamese inability to control theaters they were engaged in meant we were just never going to win.

Jonathan Martinez
Jonathan Martinez

GI's racked up more kills, the politicians as per usual lost the war for the military command, and the vietnamese kept communism. Hard to say who won really, but it sure wasnt the vietnamese people.

Lucas Gutierrez
Lucas Gutierrez

LUL geneva convention. The geneva convention now is pussy footing, but back then everything was pn the table. willy pete, napalm, cluster munitions, radioactive shit, chemicals etc. The vietnam war was purely lost by politicians.

Daniel Thompson
Daniel Thompson

Wrong, we also lost due to our strategy.

We had no coherent COIN strategy beyond "kill everyone", that isn't how you build the trust of the domestic population you're occupying.

The South Vietnamese at no point in the entire war supported the US presence of troops beyond the Catholic minority and the urban elite located in Saigon.

Seriously, how are other Americans this ignorant about the Vietnam war, do they not teach you kids in it in school anymore or something? The South Vietnamese government was almost comically corrupt and ineffective with a string of coups occurring which progressively eroded any type of support we had in Vietnam.

It is sad for me to read this thread and see some of the comments from other Americans in this thread. The Vietnam War was a disastrous moment in American history, and it is imperative we don't forget what happened so we can avoid those same mistakes in the future.

Hunter Baker
Hunter Baker

The blue helmet gets it.
The real fight was not against the people but against the ideology and the US was heavily infiltrated by communist agents.
The US has lost against its own (((people))) and the US has lost the cold war in general

Tyler Bailey
Tyler Bailey

US lost the cold war

I've read some absurd things in this thread but that is absolutely not the case lol.

The Soviet Union completely, and utterly collapsed, their brand of exporting communism died with them, which means in turn we "won" the Cold War.

You're Polish, you of all people should understand that.

I forget Sup Forums has a lot of whack people lurking these threads.

Cameron Johnson
Cameron Johnson

The Soviet Union completely, and utterly collapsed
See, this is why you lost. You still believe this was about the countries and not about the (((ideology))). The Soviet Union was just a tool to spread the disease.
Now your universities are filled with useful idiots and you're about to be literally shoahed unless you get your shit together quickly.

Jordan Butler
Jordan Butler

the US accomplished NOTHING it set out to achieve
Naive. The troops were deliberately hamstrung with engagement rules in order to not win. Whatever the government wanted from the conflict, they got.

Charles Wright
Charles Wright

Whishy washy etheric political philosophy is irrelevant in my opinion, the Soviet state collapsed and their brand of communism vanished from the world with it.

We won, they lost, we are an unrivaled hegemonic power at the moment because of this.

You can theorize issues regarding political thinking post coldwar, but it is undeniable we were the victors.

Ironic you say that when the RoE in Vietnam are well documented to be extremely, extremely lenient.

We poisoned their lands, burned their people, and massacred their children in villages, and we wonder why we "lost".

If we had stricter RoE we arguably would have had more success in COIN which would have paid dividends in terms of building the support of the South Vietnamese people.

Am I the only milfag on Sup Forums or something? We learn about all this shit during INDOC.

Camden Phillips
Camden Phillips

Because the US tried to intervene in a local civil war on the side of corrupt, ex-colonial puppets.

There was no way to "win".

It was a stupid decision on Eisenhower's part that no one had the balls to back away from.

Jose Campbell
Jose Campbell

And who won the war?

Liam Richardson
Liam Richardson

Because deliberately retarded ROE rules kept the war going for a nice decade, so that the MIC could make money.

Colton Nelson
Colton Nelson

since america failed to keep commies from taking all of it
i would say the vietnamese won

Thomas Green
Thomas Green

ROE was a meme, our strategy in Vietnam from the beginning was counter productive to COIN, combine that with ever changing command and the limited duration of deployments with their rapid rotation windows meant any offensive or defensive action was taken to preserve their element, versus proactively meeting the OPFOR in battle.

We just fucked up, simple as that, we could have and should have done Vietnam much differently than we did, but even then it would have been virtually impossible to rally the South Vietnamese to fight for us since we propped what was basically a colonial relic in their government. No one trusted them, and their corruption was so endemic that it hampered any military action the South Vietnamese attempted. Their soldiers didn't want to fight, and even when two elements of the same stature met in contact, it was the South Vietnamese who almost always fled the field.

Even a million US shooters in South Vietnam wasn't going to change the outcome, we simply didn't understand COIN and were under the assumption we could "shoot" our way out of Vietnam when in reality we were dealing with a war of independence and we were backing the wrong side, its no surprise we lost.

Carter Smith
Carter Smith

Exactly. Thats the problem with Americans. They think history and war is like playing COD and having the highest kill ratio determines your success.

Cameron Evans
Cameron Evans


Follow the money. Bell Helicopter made almost a trillion dollars from their contract with the US government. You know who had a lot of stock invested in Bell? LBJ's wife.

Josiah Lopez
Josiah Lopez

Not every American believes that, only the misinformed or uninformed.

Anyone involved in the military community and intelligence community is well aware of the disastrous failures of the Vietnam war and it has continued to shape our policies today.

Lincoln Taylor
Lincoln Taylor

Lets see you walk through forrests with booby traps every 10 fucking feet and see how well you do.

Nathaniel James
Nathaniel James

RoE in Vietnam are well documented to be extremely, extremely lenient
Except the exact opposite is the case.

we wonder why
Except we dont. You Vietniggers just keep denying all the well known and well documented reasons why Burgers couldnt carry a unconditional capitulation away they where fully capable of without any major financial burden.

paid dividends in terms of building the support of the South Vietnamese people
Except Burgers could have given Southern Vietniggers everything you want. You revisionist and ungrateful Vietniggers consider yourself as some undefeated superior masterrace and anything you get as deserved tribute by inferior subjects and payup for opposing the Greater Dai Viet empire. You would still feel urges to backstab Burgers the moment they turn their back on you, like you do with every white tourist deluded by liberal propaganda about Vietniggers visiting your nigger tier country. You are a poor excuses of kikes of Asia.

Caleb Collins
Caleb Collins

This. Lack of commitment, nation divided on the goals. The USA technically won, they achieved their realistic military goals, but they couldn't support their political goals with them.

If Vietnam would've been really important to the USA, like a target of an invasion to gain land to be settled later by Americans, they could've won the war easily. Go from village to village, slaughter anyone, who shows any resistance and slowly erode Viet population into nothing, while suffering managable (few millions) of losses.

Vietnam wasn't a war of full commitment like ww1 or 2.

Jordan Allen
Jordan Allen

Literally 0 operational goals.

Ryder Rivera
Ryder Rivera

Lets see you do it.
Oh wait, too fat to pass the fitness tests. Lol

David Rogers
David Rogers

Also this. North Vietnam was bound to be the government, the South was a weak, corrupt puppet, it was a lost cause.

Ryder Walker
Ryder Walker

Our people were turned against us.

Jack Collins
Jack Collins

Our SoP in Vietnam was counterproductive with COIN.

This is well document and studied in the military community, we base our modern COIN on the lessons we learned in Vietnam.

Using chemicals, willy pete, napalm, and killing children and women isn't how you win the support of the domestic population.

The South Vietnamese governments we installed were woefully corrupt which led to an unbroken string of coups during our entire stay in the country. Unfortunately for us we haven't learned from this as evidenced by Iraq (al-Maliki) and Afghanistan (Kharzai).

Sure, we won the body count, but that is irrelevant when even the shattering of the Vietcong made the Vietnamese people more resolute than ever to continue fighting for independence from what they perceived was foreign invaders (rightfully so).

We had zero business at all interfering in what was a continuation of a colonial war of independence. You can hurl as many ad hominens as you want and ignore the widely document years worth of war crimes we committed while in Vietnam, but the fact is we had zero operational goals beyond a static kill count. That isn't how you win a war where gaining the support of the native population is imperative to the success of the mission.

The Vietnamese people rallied around the North Vietnamese government on a massive scale, ever wonder why we had virtually zero pro-western North Vietnamese fighting them in the trails? Because they didn't believe in us. Have some OC from Afghanistan.

Luke Gonzalez
Luke Gonzalez

They decided to use their extensive bombing campaign on almost deserted patches of jungle.
Sending small squads to be ambush meat dropped by helis which were RPG targets(cost of 1 RPG rocket vs 1 helicopter).

The point is that the Russians funded the opposition and Vietnam had so much wild land it was hard to systematically conquer and control.

They should've sent their kikes to infiltrate and corrupt the opposition.

Cooper Ross
Cooper Ross

that basically was how the Americans measured success in that war, tho

Parker Howard
Parker Howard

And its arguably one of the biggest reasons why we lost.

We LITERALLY had zero operational goals beyond "kill everything".

Colton Brown
Colton Brown

Politicians

Isaac Scott
Isaac Scott

Who was “Henry Kissinger” for $500, Alex?

Chase Scott
Chase Scott

Including South Vietnamese forces, we had the same amount of troops.

We had way much more firepower. We have air superiority and better and more arms. Some VC were still using WW1 rifles. Soviet and Chinese aid was way less than our spending

no supported
We got tired of that shit. The war had been going on for a decade and escalated half a dozen times, each supposedly the last.

Ayden Perry
Ayden Perry

First of all veitnam wasn't a war, the United States hasn't been in an official war since ww2. We completed all of our objectives in the region and had what, a 1 to 100 kdr? America has never once in history technically lost a war.

Brayden Powell
Brayden Powell

Name one operational objective we had in South Vietnam beyond kill counts.

Carter Myers
Carter Myers

yes you have, you lost the war of 1812 and ceded territory to the British Empire.

Justin Lopez
Justin Lopez

I remember in school when learning about the war, never once did anyone actually say "we lost". Probably still controversial since there are tons of people today who personally knew people who died for absolutely no reason.

Ryder Gomez
Ryder Gomez

this was a good post.

Sebastian Johnson
Sebastian Johnson

This is why

https://youtu.be/Fj5k6toS7i8

Lucas Gray
Lucas Gray

wwI or wwII weren't wars of full commitment for the US either and they were total political losses.

Colton Young
Colton Young

Arguing history on Sup Forums is futile, this thread is evidence of that.

Levi Davis
Levi Davis

Establish between the north and south Vietnamese a demilitarized zone, similar to the one on the Korean peninsula. This led to a cease fire; the cease fire was challenged by the north, they wanted to see if the Americans would respond by funding the replacement of all south Vietnamese military expenditures which had been part of the agreement. But Congress had been taken by the democrats, who would not fund this. So the north Koreans went on to invade the entirety of south Vietnam. They used democracy as a weapon- our democracy- and it was very effective.

Jeremiah Ross
Jeremiah Ross

Mericalars still mad, love it. Maybe stake a trip to Vietnam and have a scavenger hunt for your granpappy's skull lol.

Hunter Taylor
Hunter Taylor

because just like in Korea the US wasn't allowed to win the war by politicians, we couldn't invade North Vietnam and we couldn't invade North Korea after the Chinese got involved, US politicians didn't want to risk a nuclear war with China or Russia basically so the whole thing was basically a sop to the military industrial complex

Caleb Torres
Caleb Torres

None of what you typed is an operational objective, do you even know what that is lol?

Owen Rogers
Owen Rogers

WW2 was a political loss

nigga wut?

I mean, yeah we let Russia take the shitty half of Europe for a few decades, but they did help out a lot so they really should get something.

Camden Kelly
Camden Kelly

it was a proxy war against the USSR. we supported a democratic vietnam while the USSR supported a communist vietnam. think of the afghan war in the 80's. USSR invaded afghanistan and the USA supported the mojahadeen (sorry couldnt spell it). USSR eventually "lost" and pulled out. that was their vietnam

Robert Rivera
Robert Rivera

You make it seem like it was a thing to get btfo. Wanna read me the stats?
Hurrr this isn't cowadoody

Carson Hill
Carson Hill

Domestic cuck communists seized the narrative and pussy politicians made our military fight with one hand behind our back. We could have won the war in 68 if we weren't held back by cucks. To this day, they downplay every atrocity of communists in SEA and talk about the war like a huge moral travesty that proves we are an evil country hellbent on slaughtering brown people. I want to vomit when most people talk about Vietnam.

Liam Cruz
Liam Cruz

politics and to be fair, those determined gooks were a worthy opponent. imagine how much worse your third world shit hole you call home would have done. fucking rice pickers probably would have ended up invading your faggot country and taking over

Liam Parker
Liam Parker

they knew the land

Landon Reed
Landon Reed

Fucking SAVAGE af desu senpai

Kevin Torres
Kevin Torres

Mattel gun was shit. terrible reliability and shit caliber for that area. if we had AKs too we would have btfo the gooks.

John Bennett
John Bennett

Including South Vietnamese forces, we had the same amount of troops.
The South Vietnamese were French lickspittles led by ambitious sell-outs who constantly conspired to be the top American lap-dog when all the smoke cleared.

Noah Hernandez
Noah Hernandez

Mfw I use this argument everytime ironically and unapologetically against gun control

Asher Powell
Asher Powell

U N C O M M O N
N
C
O
M
M
O
N

Jayden Wilson
Jayden Wilson

Because the politicians would not allow the Military to fight like it was trained to do. Once they backed off, the navy and Air Force began bombing the shit out of Hanoi...just as the NVA was about to surrender...Congress called off the bombing.....DMZ is another example....our soldiers were not allowed to shoot gooks in the DMZ even when they were shooting us. Your question implies we were cucked by the vietnamese...no...we were cucked by our own government.

Andrew Davis
Andrew Davis

Well Brit Fag, with a female Doctor Who....America has pulled your limey asses out of the fire twice in the big wars and handed you your muslim pierced asses in several other wars. So fuck off right over there.

Jordan Carter
Jordan Carter

and you would suck a dick if you thought it would make you liked by your friends...you weak minded masturbater

Henry Sanchez
Henry Sanchez

The American people were betrayed when they were forced to intervene against free people who had just successfully thrown off the shackles of French colonialism and were preparing to self govern.

Once again, our nation's basic principles were subverted for the purpose of keeping resources open for the top dogs to exploit, and to exert "regional influence", which is politi-speak for "scaring everyone in the region".

We "lost" the moment we sent the first uniformed soldier, no, when we sent France the first bit of material support.

Charles Evans
Charles Evans

http://lwd.juncao.org/Scripts/edit/attached/file/20171021/20171021091804_13133.htm

Nathan Gonzalez
Nathan Gonzalez

French Tire Company called Micheline Tire......rubber plantations all over Vietnam....wanted to lower labor cost even more...vietnam says fuck off.....they split the country...Ho Chi Mihn comes to America for help against the French...we tell him BTFO...we have anti aggression pact with France.....Ho Chi goes to Russia and China for help and gets it...now it looks like Communist Dominoes falling...America moves in.....Last french soldier flys out hanging from helicopter....throws his rifle on the ground...FUCK Micheline Tires

Samuel Scott
Samuel Scott

Deaths: 58,318 US/849,018 NV

We won the popular vote by a landslide.

Jack Hughes
Jack Hughes

hows all your women holding up to the barrage of bbc surging into your country and your womens asses. At least we fought, but to just roll over like a coward...how can you sleep at night

Grayson Wood
Grayson Wood

Why don't you include the South Vietnamese loses?

Jayden Lopez
Jayden Lopez

A american can't realise the irony in this statement

Levi Carter
Levi Carter

Holy shit this chink is buttmad. You are aware that chinks were slaves of Mongols at that time, right? Here we can see chink slaves dying along with their beloved Mongol masters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_B%E1%BA%A1ch_%C4%90%E1%BA%B1ng_(1288)
Kublai became increasingly despondent after the deaths of his favorite wife and his chosen heir Zhenjin. The failure of the military campaigns in Vietnam and Japan also haunted him. Kublai turned to food and drink for comfort, became grossly overweight, and suffered gout and diabetes.
Kublai literally died from butthurt! I think you should do the same.

Michael Gomez
Michael Gomez

We had a 50:1 kill:death ratio

Angel Murphy
Angel Murphy

I'm 12 and just read my first war quote on reddit

Noah Carter
Noah Carter

If the US had done what was necessary to win, we would be reading the "Why was the US so evil?" thread.

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