/cgj/ - Carl Jung General

Explain to me why Jungian interpretations of the metaphysical world and its archetypal stories isn't the best filter through which to view life and existence?

>Nihilists need not even get out of bed edition

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Jung is a meme psychiatrist

Not really. His work on archetypes is good.
Read pic related.

Im ENTP thanks jugn

>jordan peterson overdose becomes obvious

>he doesn't know what a meme is and bandies about the word as though its definition is something along the lines of "temporary fad".

Christ almighty, get your shit together.

collective unconscious is lamarkian and freud was 1000x better, even if freud was less honest, highly self-aggrandizing and ripped off other people's ideas (like cocaine) quite frequently. but that's what witgenstein called the "jewish character" so it's hard to blame freud for his heritable predispositions

Because this is still an intellectual game.

Because Freud is better

>deus vult fag lecturing about temporary fads

If you're going to define temporary as deep in time as millenniums, then i guess we both may as well go full nihilism and agree everything is temporary, no?

You don't think an understanding of the underlying meta-reality of our world is an expression of intelligence?

>everything is temporary and therefore meaningless

I don't think you understand nihilism

I'm thinking perhaps you don't...

It's really, really... REALLY not a difficult philosophy to grasp.

In fact, it's arguably the simplest of all philosophies.
How are you fucking this up buddy?

I merely question its use. If you pick a religion that poetically translates the structure of the human mind and faithfully live it out to the best of your ability, props. If you spend much of your life analyzing mythology as a hobby, I'd say it could negatively affect your willingness to act on it. It may become a game played for its own sake, often does. That's my concern. Your life, your choices.

>Because Freud is better

No he wasn't, he was wrong on a ton of shit and most of his work isn't taken seriously anymore. Jung expanded on it and gave psychology a solid foundation.

Jung may be ignored, but Freud is scoffed at.

Personally I think people may be too critical but it comes from legitimate places..

Jungianism is demonic, literally.

Years after his death Jung's journals were published, called the Red Book.

Jung's journals revealed that he was deeply into the occult and that a demonic spirit-guide who called himself Philemon would visit his consciousness and guide him in his thinking.

Not shitting you, look it up.

That's a very valid concern, and i certainly don't want to be someone examining these things at arms length, afraid to participate in the truths they reveal for some foolishly hesitant search for the 'most truthful of the truths'.

I think they all express some undeniably valid truth about the meta reality the cultures that made them were able to piece together over the many centuries, but my primary desire is not just to follow one, it's to rekindle its flame in this increasingly aimless 21st century, and reignite the underlying purpose with new, more topical fuel.

My dream is of a 21st century spirituality, that has a backbone, unlike many of these nu-wave feelgood movements.
It's what my heart cries out for, and that's all i know.

Read Phenomenology of the Spirit and Being and Time side by side, if you haven't. Godspeed.

I'm aware.

First and foremost, i'm not suggesting we treat Jung (or to a lesser extent, the still alive Peterson) as deities.

But more to the point, that his core method of analysis of these things is more useful in their raw lucidity in deciphering the goings-on of what these myths and liquified ideas represent.

One should dabble in demonology, to test themselves.

The truest weakness of any demon is to know, and speak its real name, and to find that name, sometimes you have to delve deep into unpleasant waters, and indeed risk your life in doing so.

This world is no game, no fantasy, and those who can dredge forth tangible crystallisation from the messy waters of theirs and everyone else's subconscious, this world will belong.

Like God, those that give the waters form hold the power.

Just ordered them now, i'm interested.

Temporality has zero relevance to nihilism.

This is not politics.

I am familiar with the Red Book. You're hilariously superstitious. Like something out of the dark ages.

Sorry m8, but that's just the wrong advice.

Resist the devil and he will go somewhere else. Don't allow occultic or demonic things any foothold at all in your mind.

How can it not be politics, it is foundational to the political feelings and decisions everyone will make.

Shouldn't you be out warning children about the dangerous of Halloween?

I could disagree (and i do), but your nonsensicality in this context intrigues me, why don't you tell me what it means to you?

You're promoting some crank who himself admitted he got his ideas from a demon, and you're calling ME superstitious?

Eat a bag of dicks, asshole.

It's psychology. None of Jung's thoughts deal with political feelings: what laws ought to be, how money should be destributed, the size of the government, the use of socialism.

You're on a board where people think about politics. You'd be in much better company on /his/ or /lit/ where a greater amount of people read Jung.

You totally missed the point brainlet. Can't say I'm surprised.

>Jung was a Gnostic
>Ended collegial relationship with Freud because Freud did not want to include speculation of Gnostic symbols in the field of psychoanalysis
>Wrote treatises about how cool Abrasax is
>Had a "wise master" in his head named Philemon
>Came up with the 'Age of Aquarius' bullshit faggot New Agers like to prance around with, celebrating the end of the reign of Christ

So why should we be looking up to this pouty, demon-possessed faggot occultist?

The dirty secret nobody ever tells you, is that they're already in your mind.

You have to stare them in the eye, acknowledge them, and know them better than you know your fondest friends and most loved family.

Abstinence is one thing, but entirely another is redemption followed by abstinence.

Because when you kill a demon, you get a little bit of its power, burned into your soul forever.
More dangerous, but far better than just avoiding them altogether.

The only one talking about demons here is you. Jung never referred to any of his dream characters as demons.

Quick Rundown:

A long time ago, Christianity made people turn away from the material world. This made our collective unconscious develop a fascination with the material world because it is a fact that the material world is as important as our spirit. So through Christianity we gave rise to science. Science deals with the tiniest minute differences in matter and the behavior of it. Our goal is to find the fountain of youth or holy grail.

>Carl Jung General
>/cgj/

good one m8

Here's your "grail"

I don't think anyone here would argue we're well on our way to finding that fountain of youth; in CRISPR and other modern gene mod techniques.

it won't be long now.

And shit is going to get seriously, seriously weird after that...

For when Judeo Peterson isn't strong enough and you need harder drugs.

>Extroverted
>Fin
Pick one.

Get this schmuck some Zyklon B right here

This is not an idea Jung expresses at all. You're spreading misinformation.

yes, i put the last 2 letters in the wrong order, posting on Sup Forums doesn't come with version control. I'd push a fix if i could.

Meh, a lot is shit. He was better than Freud. His writings on Archtypes are still extremely relevant and used in modern science today.

Smooth way to namedrop Witgenstein, Cheese Meister.

I was and always have been a freudian, lifelong, and I took freud's side of the argument for a very long time. The past year or so though I have listened again to what jung had to say, and I have changed my position somewhat. freud was always problematic, on many levels, so in truth i would say i was more a lacanian, especially in later years, and perhaps that's what opened up the possibility of re-reading jung in a new light.
youtube.com/watch?v=LOxlZm2AU4o

>Some say he never posted again

Yes young inquisitor. The warp grants unimaginable powers. Tap into its roiling currents, Use your psychic powers in the unfaltering defence of the imperium of mankind.

I was watching a JBP lecture today. I think it's Personality 12 from last year. It has to deal with dostoy, nietszche, and jung. I'm not sure if it was one of their ideas or Jordan's. I recommend watching it though because it's one of his best.

Pity, that.

Sounds like a mix of Freud and Nietzsche. Is that Jung?

Explain to me why your pseudo-intellectual bullshit is politics

Carl Gustav Jung?

Well which one is it?

We find the way, by HIS light we traverse this twisted scape, and with his blessings, fight the horror within.
With holy Terra, and the golden throne in our hearts, no beast can stand before us.

Because politics is fundamentally a manifestation of the psyche?

Stop trying to Deus Ex Machina this thread away because it's inconvenient to your personal capacities.

FUUUUGGGGG where I can get a Philemon too?

The problem is that the demonic and occult can be arrived at through an attempt at resisting the devil. Yin and Yang, chaos out of order, order out of chaos, etc.
It's really hard to know when you're on the right path, arguably you know least of all when you're on the right path if you're on the path.
Jung's cross analyses of symbols from Egyptian, Greek mythology, Christianity, alchemy, buddhism and eastern traditions etcetc is extraordinary. He pulled together the work of thousands of years across dozens of cultures and multiple epochs in each. He single handedly did the work of about twenty fucking men. His work is the greatest tome of knowledge on how to ensure you DON'T allow the devil into your mind, and how to recognise when he has slithered in, and where from, and how to stop it in the future.
Yeah that's the point. He acknowledged the sin and demons within himself, and figured out a methodology to go and confront that dark corner. He took confrontation with inner-demons to a whole new level.

The problem with Jungianism isn't Jung, it's Jungians.
Some of these faggots are responsible for the bullshit of drum circles and dance therapy and esoteric buddhist retreats.

Jung himself said that it was foolish to do this, that there was an idiocy and misguided indolence about those who thought they could attain integration by looking to foreign methods. He intended to seek out the commonality with meta-analysis of various processes of individuation and psychic unity worldwide, to inform the development of this in the new frontiers of modern Europe.

He was also massively race-realist. Read his stuff about 'primitives'. Modern Jungians hem and haw about 'oh Jung didn't REALLY mean it' but he did, just in a detached and matter-of-fact way rather than an emotional or angry way.

Read Jung, avoid most Jungians, although Inner Work by Robert Johnson is a decent handbook for Dream Analysis and Active Imagination.

Peterson is definitely his own thing, he moves very far away from both Nietzsche and Jung specifically at the point where he analyzes individuals.

The 12 personality thing is not from Jung. It's from Meyer Briggs who based on some of Jung's idea. Jung was opposed to such personality tests because he thought they express ideas as little boxes that are checked yes or no. I think there's some value to the 12 thing but it shouldn't be taken very literally.

Two problems are that it does not measure quality (a person can be 'feeling' but very bad at feeling) and it does not differentiate based on gender. How a man and a woman feel about things is very different. Jung's psychology has innate differences based on gender.

A point of diverence from each.

Jung placed a lot of the mystical power at the level of the indivual. His dream analysis and the concept of the anima/animus are about power that comes from within a person. While his analysis of mythology is about power that exists outside a person. Peterson seems to really focus only on power outside a person. I have never seen him discuss the anima/animus nor dream theory.

Nietzsche accepts and promotes the cruelty of reality while Peterson tries moralizing about it.

I personally think Peterson is a small man with small ideas. Some people claim to get some level of personal growth out of them, if that's the case more power to them.

I've come to the conclusion that no one who loudly criticises it on Sup Forums understands it. They have the same babby's first understanding of it as the edgelords they mock and the only difference is the conclusion they draw.

These are my thoughts.

...

what is this?

Explain to me why any shit on nowadays Sup Forums is politics related you fucking mongoloid.

I meant the 12th lecture on his Personality course. I know Peterson isn't the end all be all of this stuff, but he seems to be the only person to listen to when it comes to this material, at least for people just dipping their toes in it.

Can any of you guys use jungian metaphysics to interpret these two very weird dreams I had back in June? I feel like they're important but I have no idea what they mean.

In both we're in the living room of my parent's house (college student that only lives with parents during the summer, but did summer semester to get ahead on credits last year, which is when this took place).

In the 1st one me and my driver that takes me to and from the airport were sitting at opposite sides of the couch. My driver was drinking hot coco and telling me how to get girls, but then I went on a long rant about how everything I told him about myself was a lie, and that I'm actually completely average in every way. Then he asked "Why are you telling me this?" And then it ended.

In the 2nd one I had moved to sitting right next to the person I was talking to on the couch and I was talking this time to a person that looked like what a pair of girl twins from my elementary school would look like today. I had moved to a different state in middle school so I don't even remember their names, though the girl in this dream said her name was Fred. But then later in the dream she said her name was something else but I forget what she said it was. We were both drinking hot coco in this dream, and also she was wearing a really long football jersey I think. Anyway she was talking about something I forget, but then I went on the same rant about how I'm a completely average person. Then she said she needed to show me something, turned toward me, was about to kiss me, and then the dream ended.

What does it all mean?

Bump

1st one:

The driver is an aspect of your psychology that gives you wisdom. I don't know if it is LITERALLY telling you how to get women (if that's something that's importaint to you may be the case) or if it's a metaphor. He knows the way hense he is a 'driver'. You cut yourself off from his knowledge by ranting about this when it is of no issue. "Why are you telling me this" means it's not even a real issue and your brain is sick of the subject.

Your second dream is the same message. And most likely confirms your brain is actually trying to think of ways for you to find a and keep a woman you are happy with. What's getting in the way, is yourself and your self-image. In this case it choose the image of girls you thought were pretty and probably some nostalgia for. The girls names change because she is not that particular girl but a general representation of the women you encounter.

I can't explain why she had a man's name without any more information.

>Your driver
>In the dream he was preaching to you.

In some form or another, you see him as a father-figure, guiding you / wayfinding for you.

>you told him everything about yourself is a lie and the dream ended.

You feel guilt around yourself, that you aren't living up, not only to that person, but even to the fabrications of yourself.
The whole point of fabricating a personality around yourself, is that you slowly inhabit it and make it real - you aren't making it real, clearly, and you should see to that.

>the other dream
>Calling you average.

You're definitely guilty about not living up to your own imaginations of the 'ideal you'. You clearly have some fantasy of yourself, and you're not taking enough steps towards making that real, and these dreams are basically your subconscious going "hey asshole, what the fuck, i thought we were going to be this great thing." Using these memories of people as hollow puppets to tell you that.

So, what is it about yourself you honestly feel you're lacking?

Basically im a very unsocial person and a friendless loser virgin in college and I kind of hate it here and wish apprenticeships were a bigger thing. My dad was a frat bro Chad in college though so I feel like I'd seem like a disappointment if I told him the truth. Also my little brother who had already had sex with a girl as a freshman in highschool legitimately looks up to me a lot partially because his relationship with our father is rocky, and partially because of this persona of Chad I put on whenever I'm with my family, so I pretend I'm actually having an amazing time at college when I fucking hat it here.

Also I have lied to my driver about having sex with girls so that prt makes sense too.

Your interpretation makes sense too because of my self image problems and one of the twin girls was my first crush back in elementary school.

I guess the driver is a bit of a father figure in that he's given me advice about sex and girls nobody else has on our trips to the airport, and he legitimately has some decent stories from his life.

So you're definitely feeling inadequate/guilty, particularly in the regions of sexual conquest.
And your lies are dramatically exacerbating this issue.

The fact the dreams bothered you enough for you to take note of and mention them as you have shows you believe they're a fundamental issue that needs resolving.

On a side note, this is making me wonder why Sup Forums never has attempted any kind of pickup artistry or encouraged it...

But i digress, basically you need to get your physical appearance in order enough for you to inflate your confidence to a level where you can start getting girls and fulfilling this fake persona you've constructed.
It will be difficult, and you may have to sleep with some uglies on the way, but as long as you're earnestly self improving a little bit every day, and doing what you can to be more charismatic these feelings will begin to subside.

You're on a quest now, one that might never actually end.

Enjoy it.