Why didn't Madoka just wish for the universe to be self sustaining so witches...

Zachary Jenkins
Zachary Jenkins

Why didn't Madoka just wish for the universe to be self sustaining so witches or magical girls didn't have to exist in order to create "new energy"?

Jace Brooks
Jace Brooks

self sustaining
First you explain to us what you think "self sustaining" means, then we'll tell you why you are stupid.

witches or magical girls didn't have to exist
But Madoka wanted them to exist. Watch the damn show.

Colton Rodriguez
Colton Rodriguez

why didn't frodo just catapult the ring into the volcano?

Robert Barnes
Robert Barnes

The show implies that the world is heading towards a big freeze. I'm implying that Madoka is retarded for not making a better wish.
Madoka didn't want girls to suffer, so in order for them to not suffer they really can't be magical girls or witches.

Gabriel Ramirez
Gabriel Ramirez

The show implies that the world is heading towards a big freeze.
Indeed. Now what do you mean by self-sustaining?

Madoka didn't want girls to suffer,
Wrong, she didn't want them to turn into witches.

Aiden Ramirez
Aiden Ramirez

Six years later and people still don't understand a simple show that explains everything

Mason Smith
Mason Smith

Self-sustaining meaning it did not need magical girls to help bring in new energy. The universe also includes everything in it so sure, it's always self sustaining. The point is the universe was heading towards a condition where humans could not survive.
She specifically says she did not want girls to suffer.

it didn't explain why Madoka didn't wish for a better wish.

Ayden Morales
Ayden Morales

it's always self sustaining.
Yes, which means the wish as you describe it makes no sense.
So, what exactly do you want her to wish for?
You are using more and more words but you are not getting anywhere.

She specifically says she did not want girls to suffer.
Suffering is a part of life. That's not what she was talking about. She was talking specifically about the suffering of turning into a witch.
Being able to become a magical girl to fulfill one's own dreams was not something she opposed.

Benjamin Hall
Benjamin Hall

I'm not saying I wanted her to wish for anything.
she didn't want girls to bear the SUFFERING of turning to a witch
exactly. The two go hand in hand though, the aliens couldn't just go up to girls and ask if they would like to turn into witches, it was just a ploy for the girls to agree. Madoka did not understand this.

Brandon Taylor
Brandon Taylor

The two go hand in hand though,
Not anymore though.
Mission fucking accomplished.

Jaxson Perez
Jaxson Perez

She couldn't you fucking faggot. She wasn't omnipotent, just really powerful because Homura invested so much energy in her.

Camden Carter
Camden Carter

Their suffering just turned into a different thing entirely, though. Why not wish for something that humans had no key involvement with?
She and Homura are gods by the end of the movie.

Adam Thompson
Adam Thompson

Their suffering just turned into a different thing entirely,
No, they didn't suffer from turning into witches anymore.
The suffering that turned into the new demons was just normal human negative emotions generated by all of humanity.

Why not wish for something that humans had no key involvement with?
What is even your point?
You seem so desperate at trying to find fault with her wish you are just spouting random shit.

Sebastian Gutierrez
Sebastian Gutierrez

I don't think you understand the problem here. The aliens are still attempting to recreate energy by the third movie so it's clear Madoka's method is not foolproof.

Robert Jenkins
Robert Jenkins

Gods are not necessarily omnipotent.

Sebastian Collins
Sebastian Collins

The aliens are still attempting to recreate energy
So?
What exactly is the problem you perceive?

Joshua Thompson
Joshua Thompson

Madoka is retarded.
Just look at her fucking wide face.

Ryan Mitchell
Ryan Mitchell

Madoka's wish did not solve the problem of the expanding universe.

Joshua Johnson
Joshua Johnson

It wasn't supposed to.
The expanding universe is an autist's problem.

Daniel King
Daniel King

I'm not saying I wanted her to wish for anything.
You cannot explain the physical law you want her to simply bandaid over and you think she understands it well enough to do so without destroying the universe.

Carson Mitchell
Carson Mitchell

Why didn't she wish entropy didn't exist?
Because that would alter the universe to the point life as we know it couldn't exist. And yes, this is what you're trying to describe.

Aiden Ramirez
Aiden Ramirez

That makes a lot of sense.
It's not like wishes were explained in terms of real physics, and they obviously defy the current laws of the universe, so why not go far enough to just completely stop the problem?

Alexander Martinez
Alexander Martinez

Heat death of the universe is a meme. It's plausible but unsubstantiated. The assumption that the universe is a closed thermodynamic system is without evidence.

Isaiah Harris
Isaiah Harris

It's not like wishes were explained in terms of real physics,
But they could be explained in their effect.
You have been unable to come up with any explanation for what you want your wish to do.

Logan Hughes
Logan Hughes

Yeah, it's like global warming on a universal level. Completely unverified, but the liberal incubator controlled media talks about it as if it were unquestionably true to get people to support their programs of turning little girls into eldritch abominations.

Gavin Price
Gavin Price

Yeah, it's like global warming on a universal level.
No, not really.
Heat death of the universe is something that is going to happen in a number of years so great that it's pointless to discuss it even if it is real.
Climate change should be taken seriously even if humanity isn't actually the real cause because its effects are due within the next few years.

Nathaniel King
Nathaniel King

It's not like wishes were explained in terms of real physics
The energy is being used to counteract a real physical problem, how would you phrase the wish to avoid this? Entropy doesn't happen? Infinite well of power somewhere that the incubators can sponge off of? Keep in mind that in theory anything that would restructure the universe but get the Incubators to not care about humanity anymore would result in humanity never developing.

Luis Carter
Luis Carter

This is my wish. The problem is that the aliens were not advanced enough to understand the predicted death of the universe was actually a meme theory that did not require human or alien intervention. Madoka should have wished for memes to not exist rather than wishes.

Charles Taylor
Charles Taylor

because its effects are due within the next few years.
This has literally been said every year for the past 30. Our models blow and people sit around pointing fingers rather than looking for solutions to any of the theorized problems.

Jackson Hughes
Jackson Hughes

Heat death of the universe is something that is going to happen
going to happen
Who could be behind this post?

William Campbell
William Campbell

This has literally been said every year for the past 30.
Sorry, I didn't want to point to stuff that is already happening. But you actually can see its effects already.

Daniel Powell
Daniel Powell

Madoka should have wished for memes to not exist rather than wishes.
But why?
She got what she wanted.
If she had made that wish, humanity would still live in caves.

John Fisher
John Fisher

If she had made that wish, humanity would still live in caves.
taking incubators at their word
Not even once.
But user, incubators don't lie, they said so themselves!

Asher Reyes
Asher Reyes

You are expecting a little girl to make a gamble on her seeing through the perceived bluff of a race with literally no tells, and bet all of civilization.

Oliver Long
Oliver Long

I wouldn't say they're lying; just grossly underestimating humanity. They may have accelerated human development somewhat, and while humanity would have progressed without their involvement, retconning that would have a butterfly effect and alter human history considerably.

Bentley King
Bentley King

retconning that would have a butterfly effect and alter human history considerably.
Just like removing witches from history should have.

Jeremiah Cooper
Jeremiah Cooper

How's this for a wish?

I wish all energy stays conserved

William Lopez
William Lopez

You mean like, making energy conversion impossible?

Julian Watson
Julian Watson

Hence why wraiths fill in.

Energy is conserved. It is merely converted into a form that cannot perform work.

James Butler
James Butler

Yes. If the universe is so damn hot, Madoka could just ask it to chill the fuck out.

Julian Cruz
Julian Cruz

Hence why wraiths fill in.
But they don't fill the same role. They don't come to be in the place where magical girls died.
They don't cause magical girls to turn on their friends either.

William Phillips
William Phillips

Ask for many other easier ways for qb to harvest energy.

William Young
William Young

They fill the role of being negative emotion antithetical to magical girls' hope in order to provide a means to restore magic as well as a negative-entropy thermodynamic process for free energy. Any harm conducted by a witch upon humans could be effectively replicated by a wraith. And yes, magical girls die slightly less miserable deaths, but that was the point of Madoka's wish.

Kyubey wouldn't know how to do that.

Elijah Johnson
Elijah Johnson

We are discussing the butterfly effect here.

Sebastian Gomez
Sebastian Gomez

No, I'm expecting someone who watched the show and literally saw Kyubey lie to Kyouko to get her to kill herself to further his plans not take him at his word.

Angel Long
Angel Long

But somebody who watched the show cannot make a wish, because such a person would not be part of the Madoka universe.

Benjamin Johnson
Benjamin Johnson

Say humans never interacted with Incubators. Canonically, some major historical figures such as Joan of Arc and Cleopatra were magical girls, and the most powerful magical girls were stated to be those with a major impact on history-- these figures would be different since their wishes would have never affected human history, since no contract would exist. This is a much bigger change than swapping witches for wraiths, because many of the consequences caused by witches could be replicated by wraiths.

Jeremiah Bennett
Jeremiah Bennett

the effects

You mean russia turning into a fertile paradise while much of the third world and america's southern half starve?

I'm not worried. In fact, I only buy emissions exempt vehicles and greatly prefer two stroke engines.

The only thing of value we will lose is winter in japan. Unless accidental ice age, then we got non-stop winter anime until everyone dies.

Isaiah Williams
Isaiah Williams

Kyubey lie to Kyouko
"If there was a way to turn her back into a human, I wouldn't know about it" is completely truthful.

Jaxon Harris
Jaxon Harris

That's paradoxical though

The universe created the madoka girls in order to sustain itself making it a form of self sustenance. Law of thermodynamics applies

Dylan Harris
Dylan Harris

Somebody who watched the show can discuss the actions of characters in the show, like what we're doing in this thread.
It would be, but that's not at all what he said. He told Kyouko there might be a way, though he didn't know it. He then told Homura that it was clearly impossible. So he wasn't even technically telling the truth, he was lying that there might be a way when he knew there wasn't.

Landon Rivera
Landon Rivera

This is a much bigger change
I'm not detesting that.
I'm saying that after so many millennia of human history the minuscule changes would have accumulated to something seriously noticeable.

Joshua Price
Joshua Price

You mean russia turning into a fertile paradise while much of the third world and america's southern half starve?
That is a very optimistic view of things.

Aiden Murphy
Aiden Murphy

Somebody who watched the show can discuss the actions of characters in the show,
Yes, they can. But they should also be able to acknowledge that what seems obvious to us is not obvious to them.
A wish based on meta knowledge is not available to Madoka.

Besides, even if you accept that Kyubey is a liar, that still doesn't give you any kind of assurance that he lied in this one particular instance.
You are still gambling.

Isaiah Rivera
Isaiah Rivera

You mean russia turning into a fertile paradise
This is what dumb Russians actually believe.
Remember the Aral Sea? It's gone because you didn't have enough water for the shit land you had and had to divert its sources. More land with temperatures suitable for farming doesn't give you enough water to do so. Enjoy your desertification.

Thomas Jenkins
Thomas Jenkins

It's impossible as far as he knows. He believes it is impossible, but claiming that there might be a possibility isn't untruthful; it's only misleading.

That would be possible, but the nature of wraiths replacing witches is such that further reaching consequences are limited.

Josiah Gonzalez
Josiah Gonzalez

because doing so would require infinite energy?
girls power their wishes, she can't wish for an infinite power source that starves off entropy,

Jayden Morgan
Jayden Morgan

holy fuck thermodynamics doesnt apply here in any way what so ever.

Camden Jenkins
Camden Jenkins

Sure he might be a liar, but he's totes telling the truth here, even though he has incentive to lie!

Also, Madoka had plenty of reason to not trust Kyubey at that point. She already knew the truth about witches and soul gems. Indeed, based on her wish, she didn't trust him completely in the end, and was able to screw him over and help the situation, just not as thoroughly as some would have liked.
If he was telling the truth to Kyouko, that there might be a way, he was then lying to Homura when he said it was impossible. If he was telling the truth to Homura that it was impossible, he was lying to Kyouko that there might be a way. There's no way that both these statements could be truthful. Therefore he was lying.

Aaron Allen
Aaron Allen

he's totes telling the truth here,
That's not what I said.
Don't you understand what gambling means?

Josiah Mitchell
Josiah Mitchell

It's not much of a gamble. Now there are other reasons to not wish incubators never came to Earth. Madoka made the wish she did not because she believed Kyubey that humans would still be naked in caves, though she may or may not have, but because making that wish leaves the issue of entropy. Plus, she wanted to personally fix things. Hence the "with my own hands" part. She made the wish she did because she saw it as her duty to, both to save magical girls from becoming witches and to save the universe.

Justin Hill
Justin Hill

It's not much of a gamble.
If you say so.

Brody Turner
Brody Turner

It really isn't much of a gamble to think a known liar who has every incentive to lie in a situation is lying.

Eli Jones
Eli Jones

WHY DIDN'T SHE JUST WISH FOR INFINITE WISHES??????

Lucas Ortiz
Lucas Ortiz

I think the whole “magical girls have existed from the beginning and created an impact on history” was kind if cheap. It gives the writer an easy way out as far as imagination goes.

Owen Morris
Owen Morris

Yes, actually, it is.
The fact that he is a habitual liar does not make his statements untrue, it just means that you cannot take his word for things.
It is evidently true that the incubators' activities on Earth are an important factor of human history. That is fact.
If you remove the incubators from history, history will be different. That is also fact.
Now your gamble is on HOW MUCH history is changed.

Nathaniel Gray
Nathaniel Gray

yeah you might not be gambling there, but there's totally this other gamble!
Okay?

Logan Rodriguez
Logan Rodriguez

you might not be gambling there
Learn to read.

Brayden Bailey
Brayden Bailey

Now your gamble is on
I can read just fine. There is no gamble on whether or not Kyubey is lying. This is a different gamble, which kyubey's statement is irrelevant on. Of course history is going to be different. But the naked in caves part? This is the contention.

Noah Nelson
Noah Nelson

There is no gamble on whether or not Kyubey is lying.
Yes, there is.
The question is how much is humanity's history changed? Are we still cavemen or are we less developed or are just differently developed?
Has Kyubey lied?
which kyubey's statement is irrelevant on.
No, it isn't.
Why would it be? He's the only one with any kind of information on the topic. He may be lying. But he may not be.

There is one gamble, and you have 2 things:
1) the knowledge that change is inevitable.
2) somebody told you that there would be one particular outcome that would be so catastrophic that even a small chance of it occurring is to be avoided at all costs

Mason Scott
Mason Scott

Her'es the thing you're missing, it doesn't matter whether humans are naked in caves or developed differently. It's certain that there will be a difference that will eliminate the world you're from. If you care about preserving it at all, Kyubey's statement doesn't matter. If you don't, then you have a gamble for whether the new world would be better or not.

And as for the question of whether Kyubey's lying, that's almost certain. Not only is he a known liar, but he has no way to actually know this.

Carter Clark
Carter Clark

that's almost certain.
True. The BDs came with a comic that basically made his statement canon.

If you care about preserving it at all,
Then you can't make this wish.
If you don't
Then his statement matters.
So there you go. If you want to make this wish, his statement matters.

Mason Rivera
Mason Rivera

Why not wish for the incubators to have feelings so they could harvest themselves?

Landon Collins
Landon Collins

It isn't in any way canon, any more than Homura getting horny at the sight of Madoka's ototo's crude drawing of Madoka is.

Bentley Price
Bentley Price

It's a race that accompanied the human race since its very beginnings, that has a collective memory and that has significantly influenced mankind's development.
The statement is made along with several other statements about history (pointing out other magical girls that died long before the show started) that he couldn't predict her to actually verify and thus had about as much reason to lie about as the main statement we are discussing and these other statements are supported by the final episode.

Isaac Gutierrez
Isaac Gutierrez

"Every great advance in science has issued from a new audacity of magical girls."
-- Kyubey

Justin Bailey
Justin Bailey

Homura did that

Hunter Perez
Hunter Perez

It's a gradual process that's been documented in journals since the 30s and was theorized in the 1890s. It's not something that just "happens" like the Olympics you fucktards. And the actual outcomes have more or less consistently matched or surpassed ipcc predictions. And no, time magazine is not a peer reviewed journal.

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