I am a Marxist with some skepticism. I am giving you a chance here to sell me on capitalism...

I am a Marxist with some skepticism. I am giving you a chance here to sell me on capitalism. Why do you think it is sustainable?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=CjnFtH50vio
youtube.com/watch?v=kVnO3Ru2N7s&t=490s
youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3C397F4A32D855FD
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Pinochet's_Chile
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre
youtu.be/rlgaADnL-qs
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Because it's been around since the dawn of civilization.

It's THE base model of human economics.

convert or we will kill you comnie scum. think we are kidding?

Go live in China dumbass if you love communism so much.

Holy shit you're fucking dumb.

How do you think communism is sustainable?

>sell me on capitalism
you don't even believe in the concept of selling stuff, faggot

...

Want true capitalism or the ideals of capitalism, go read Wealth of Nations. (It's a bit dry) After that if you want to come back and have a dialogue about how government sticking it's dick in the market has fucked us over I think you'll get more responses.

You'll be spared the rake, leaf.

Well I really liked what was going on in the Soviet Union. It wasn't perfect but we can learn from it. A model like that could be sustainable as long as it focused on expanding and taking over the west.

I know all about wealth of nations. Adam Smith even warned about division of labor under capitalism. He would NOT be in favor of the type of global market that exists in this day and age.

Listen to these guys debunk Dialectical Materialism:
youtube.com/watch?v=CjnFtH50vio

You're kidding right? Capitalism is only 300 years old.

Well, once the west had been taken over, then what?

Face it, communism/socialism don't work on an involuntary basis and even then it still breeds sloth, waste and misery.

>Sell me on how you think capitalism is sustainable.

Well, for starters I think sustaining itself for the entirety of human civilization is a pretty good base, at least when compared to most red states either being dirt poor or being forced to abandon complete communism because they are sick of starving.

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>'Th-the free market is innate'
Good God, you're levels of stupid I didn't realise were feasible.

>capitalism is 300 years old

Nigger, what?

The word might be 300 years old but the concept and practice of it is the oldest form of economy on the planet.

Once socialism exists across the globe the authoritarianism starts to fade due to no longer having any outside threat. Employment will still have to be mandatory for a long time but everybody needs to work, even under capitalism if they want to make a living. Horizontal growth will start to pick up.

Care to explain?

What age are you and what do you do for a living? You can be obscure. However if you live in a country that has allowed you the ability to rise above the rest of the world economically, then you are not practicing what you in fact desire. Any excuse outside of that is hypocritical. If you were to move to the closest communistic country and really experience it then maybe more people would be inclined to listen to your suggestions.

You don't have to be a Marxist just because you disagree with capitalism.

But to be fair, communist revolution has never happened in a developed country (which is even what Marx said would be necessary). You need that pre-existing wealth and infrastructure .

When has an authoritarian government ever gone away without massive bloodshed?

Then who'll decide how much each person needs or needs to give?

You are forgetting that modern humans act in civil ways. Act, being the key word here. Even if you were able to create a communist nation as soon as things took a turn for the worst you niggers would be out there killing each other over a piece of bacon.

I want you to be in my shoes. As a capitalist, I voluntarily work in mines. Coal, Gypsum, Salt... I get paid very well for my skill set. Under communism, we would be forced to work these jobs. Forced. I do this because I have incentive. I could not imagine people who are conscripted to do this job.

I wouldn’t wish this forced on anybody.

That among many reasons why men and women should be allowed to pursue their works for compensation only they agree to.

>When has an authoritarian government ever gone away without massive bloodshed?
Why do military's and authoritarianism exist currently? To protect the structure of the state. If the whole earth is one government with mass equality and needs met, the need for extreme hierarchies will no longer be relevant.

>Then who'll decide how much each person needs or needs to give?
The state for a while. Eventually communities will get more say. And much later on down the line once communism is reached and automation takes hold, individuals will know what needs to get done.

Why do you think communism is when it has collapsed everywhere.

>the whole earth is one government with mass equality
You think you highly of people user, ever have to beg for change? Ever asked anyone for help when you were down on your luck?

Yeah, I mean the Soviet Union was honestly such a great place that they had to build walls to stop people from leaving, not to mention the several purges that resulted in tens of millions of people dying because of the incompetency of the system. The only way forward is with right wing authoritarianism, my friend.

For a starters, I don't even want humans to do anything with coal at all.

But under socialism the dangerous and dirty jobs would still pay better than say an office worker. We have the ability to automate a lot of these jobs as well.

You think highly of*

No I haven't. I don't want anyone to have to do that ever. And if that takes a little government force at first than so be it.

There were a lot of people that liked living there and want it to return. I swear to you I am not making this up.

Point me towards the capitalist death squads

Because as history has shown every communist regime has used death squads

You think about my other post? If you want communism why not move somewhere they practice it instead of changing how others operate? If you're not actively trying to move to a communistic nation then you are a hypocrite

Communism = fails within a few generations, 50 years at best. The ruling class takes everything they can get. Instead of the idiotic idealization of "people work as much as they want and take what they need", the rest of the population works as little as possible and takes as much as they can get. It's easier to steal something someone else made than to make it yourself. Only the people in charge own anything in the end. The people rebel and the commie leaders either skip town or hang.

Capitalism = Lasts for centuries, only sees any failing when the civilization it has built reaches a peak of comfort and complacency, leaving them open to ideals that come and fuck everything up, especially globalism and communism. The rich sustain the poor to enough of a degree that the system keeps running and few enough people are pissed about the conditions, so that the poor working class can keep the system running.

It doesn't matter what sort of economic system a country adopts, every single one always results in a 1% and a 99%. It is simply a result of human nature.
Capitalism results in a 99% that can actually live fairly comfortably on the remaining 1% of resources.
All forms of communism however results in that 99% that owns 0% really fucking fast.

I know Bernie Sanders doesn't claim to be a full blown commie. But a lot of things Marxists support are debunked in this YouTube video criticizing comrade Bernie.

youtube.com/watch?v=kVnO3Ru2N7s&t=490s

Ok why should a High skill worker be payed the same as a low skilled worker, what is the incentive to even try?

>Point me towards the capitalist death squads
You're kidding right?

There is no such thing as ''capitalism.'' ''Capitalism'' is a complete buzzword made up by socialists to describe a lack of socialism.
When you say
>I am giving you a chance here to sell me on capitalism
what you are actually saying is
>I am giving you a chance here to sell me the idea that everything shouldn't under strict government control
It's a dumb question. Until you drop buzzwords and Marxist vocabulary all discussion is impossible.
Speak in plain terms. This isn't about ''Marxism vs Capitalism'', it's people saying that all aspects of human life should be regulated by the government. It's not the ''capitalists'' job to explain to you why they don't want a corrupt government to take all their stuff and regulate their life, it's your job to tell people the idea that a corrupt government knows better than them.

Moving to Cuba or North Korea is not going to do anything. They no longer have the connections they did during the cold war. Focusing on revolution in the west would help this movement a lot more.

Yes please, show me the capitalist death squads

>If the whole earth is one government with mass equality and needs met, the need for extreme hierarchies will no longer be relevant
The only way to secure a single government throughout the world is with occupation. If you want to see how that turned out, check out Africa and South America. Or even the two Koreas, or East and West Germany is perhaps the best example.
Most geographical, ideological and/or cultural groups want to be separated. It therefore stands to reason that the only reason to secure a global caliphate is with military occupation, i.e. never getting to "real communism" because you need a big brother state.

Capitalism as a means of production and distribution is efficient. Competition is promoted so that survival of the fittest comes down to who can make a product the most efficiently. Competition lowers prices and ensures an efficient means of production. Under free market capitalism people are free to choose a career path in line with their individual goals and intrinsic motivations. The people who want to become doctors have to study hard and sacrifice to become doctors. Under free market capitalism industry forms and evolves as it is needed and dissolves when it is not. Profit is motivation for prosperity whereas under communism there is no reward for extra hard work. There is no reward for sacrifice. There is no reward for investment and risk taking. There is no motivation for success.

The reason to be against Communism is simple: it is THEFT.

Stealing is the essence of all crime. Every Communist revolution involved stealing from people and failing to even then to distribute the stolen wealth to the masses. It DOESNT work in theory because it is morally repugnant.

Commies know they were morally vacant and this is why they want to destroy religions which are the core of moral ethics of culture. They have nothing to replace the void which remains.

Lets start a kickstarter for you to send you to study abroad in North Korea so you can learn about Communism more. They will love you there.

>"capitalism" is a marxist buzzword
k

Not an argument

But it really is not stealing. Taxation is theft but that's not what communism is about.

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Real communism will probably never exist in groups over 10 or 20 in size because people are pieces of shit. Maybe in wartime it's possible, but not during peace. Plus pleople will always have shit to be jealous of others for, equal distribution of wealth wont solve everything because a lot of people will degenerate it away on drugs, gambling, etc.

Also,
>The state for a while. Eventually communities will get more say. And much later on down the line once communism is reached and automation takes hold, individuals will know what needs to get done.
Show me a single example in the history of the world where the state has willingly dissolved itself, of its own volition, for the purpose of reinstating power to the people. All I want is one.

Communism punishes hard work.

In a communist society, everyone is equal economically. That means that no matter how much better you are at your factory job than some other lazy person who barely does any work, you're making the same amount of money. Why bother trying to excel, if that hard work won't be rewarded? Eventually everyone won't be working as hard as they could be. That creates an ever-escalating spiral. If you invent a new gizmo, you don't get any of the credit for that and instead the state appropriates your work and you receive nothing.

Why bother inventing a new kind of television screen, if television screens already exist? There's no benefit for doing so other than some nebulous ideal that you're doing your fellow citizens a favour.

In short, communism promotes stagnation and that's precisely why there's no such thing as the Soviet Union anymore.

How is it different? Extra taxation for welfare programs when the vast majority of tax payers did not agree to it is in fact THEFT. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens. Then apply that to communism. Try not producing anything for the group and see what happens.

Maybe.

I just don't want anyone in the world to live in poverty and hunger when we all know that we have the resources to provide for them.

As I already said, this can only happen once everywhere is under this system.

What exactly did you like about the soviet union? What can we learn from it?
What model exactly are you talking about

I mean if you want to get technical, that still wouldn't be theft. Just blackmail I guess.

This poster was made by stupid people for really stupid people. I guess it’s easy to convince people they’re being taken advantage of when they’re uneducated mongoloids who think cell phones grow on profit trees and their boss hires them to pick the fruit.

I liked the 0% homelessness, 0% unemployment, high education and literacy rate, cheap housing and food, etc.

Again it wasn't perfect. I would like to see a system like that with a constitution similar to that of the USA. Free expression, right to bear arms, etc.

>I just don't want anyone in the world to live in poverty and hunger
>communist flag

>thinking the world can be unified into one state and that this would be a good thing

Day of the rope cant come soon enough.

There is never going to be equality, no matter how hard we try there will always be someone that is above the rest and same that are below. What is the point in caring about an african half way across the world when we have the ability to improve our society

Socialism> Marxism> communism.

Communism never actually existed communism is supposed to be the utopian ideology of a socialist the dictatorships around the world have always been either socialist or Marxist it is impossible to achieve Utopia so true communism will never be accomplished.

Socialism is the foundation for Marxism and Marxism is the foundation and infrastructure for communism

The further down you get the communism the more everybody is a slave to the state because the state must monitor and manage everything aka the central planner must manage and plan everything.

Here is a video list on economics 101

Introduction to Economics: youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3C397F4A32D855FD

If you are socialist please watch this video and then analyze your points your views and your beliefs

And if you think you know enough about economics then watch the video and prove me wrong

>I liked the 0% homelessness, 0% unemployment, high education and literacy rate, cheap housing and food, etc.

So what do you think of Nazi Germany?

>What is the point in caring about an african half way across the world when we have the ability to improve our society

Because he is a human being and if I could give up my material western life to help starving sick people in other countries I would.

So let us get this straight - you are a marxist, because you think capitalism is unsustainable? Ok, sir, your logic might have some unsustainabilities of its own...

The communist will not stop until you are on the same level as the starving African. The commie ideology starts making sense when you realize that bringing people up is not the only way you can create equality, a far easier way to create equality is by bringing other people down. Communism 101

A Marxist hmmm
Remember Communist Albania? My parents lived through this and they said back then they followed Marxism word by word.
The results?
This pic is a typical street in Albania taken in 2008
This is the reason why communism is an evil virus of Satan

how..how can you be this wise... in the head!?

Kind of funny how socialism is against capitalism and the free market and yet they're the ones who are creating what they are blaming capitalism for they're scapegoating other ideologies because if anyone sees their shortcomings as the shortcomings of socialism then the ideology will fall apart and support for it will disintegrate.

Socialism only cares about what they can use to propagate their ideology remember during the election when Trump was the only one who went to Flint Michigan during the election and how it only became a thing when that Trump did something about it they accused him of taking advantage of the scenario in order to encourage his campaign and yet they would have done the exact same thing if Hillary wasn't sick in bed, don't believe me how about you look through the history of the democratic party's campaigns.

I have addressed the left now I will dress the right the right is simply the repeating Factor The right wants government to exist but in a smaller form and you have to keep in mind there are people in the Republican Party that are two two-faced they want big government in just the same way that the Socialist wanted government so in short all the Republicans want to do is shrink government so that way it's more functional but in time the government will simply expand what did you think the founding fathers did when they first establish the government in America it was small to but it grew exponentially over time it Shrinking gov. simply restarting the process.

I mean it had some good things I guess. Although that minuscule goodness is drowned out in a sea of atrociousness.

Ok. Still looks 10x better than most other 3rd world countries.

Still waiting on the capitalist death squads

10/10

like what?

You mean niggers?

You've never stood in a breadline have you?

It is therefore impossible.

Soviet Union backed Israel's adversaries during the cold war +1 CCCP

When you hear publicly owned you probably think of the population of the whole owning something but in reality what controls public property it is the government the government controls and maintains public property therefore you are forking over your rights to the government the government then owns everything if everything is under public property why do you think socialist are so statist.

North Korea – the world's most totalitarian state – is another prominentexampleof asocialisteconomy. Like Cuba, North Korea has an almost entirely state-controlled economy, and it has similar social programs to those of Cuba. There is no stock exchange in North Korea either.

die in a hole commie faggot

Every capitalist country has them. It's called the military. There is no difference between killing people inside and outside your country.

We are all humans, nations are just stories we tell ourselves.

Niggers don't even know what concrete is

The atrocious aspects could be applied to the Soviet Union. The only real difference would be the racial aspect.

An-Caps would sell anything to anyone. All freedoms come from the barrel of a gun.

Socialism leads to Marxism Marxism leads to Communism your ideology has killed more people in history than any other event in history. To any sane individual that is enough reason to completely discredit you in general.

Electrical engineer here.
We don't do stuff for shits and giggles, we want to get paid for the automation systems we design as well. Because guess what? It's a lot of work, not to mention we use tools that other people have to design and maintain and so on

Good: I guess social programs.

Bad: Private property, authoritarianism, genocide of innocent people based on race, etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Pinochet's_Chile
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

but also
>i judge an ideology and system based on the material comforts it can provide and how little conviction it inspires

OP might be a communist wumbus but you're just as materialist and wimpy as he is.

Everytime communism has been tried it failed.
The Soviet Union went up in flames, but not before executing millions of their own citizens.
Same for China in their communist phase, and now China is a shithole that needed to sell out to the rest of the planet because otherwise they would have disappeared too.
North Korea is controlled by a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Venezuela will plunge into a civil war anytime soon.
Cuba is a place where they treat their own citizens like trash, but suck the dick of tourists because it's the only way they make money.

Not to mention that in communism no matter what you do, everyone gets the same pay, which is just enough to survive.
If you are willing to say goodbye to all you have, AKA your games, your phone, your TV and everything, just to have a life where you have nothing to look forward to but working, eating and sleeping, then sure, go for it.

>Every capitalist country has them. It's called the military

Biggest fucking excuse I've ever seen. Show us proof commie

>genocide of innocent people based on race
[citation needed]

>genocide of innocent people based on race
As opposed of the genocide of innocent people based on "This guy might not be a communist"?

Hahah. I'm not playing this game with you. Sorry bud.

the soviet union had a military too so not only did they kill their own citizens, but the citizens of other countries as well

including raping and pillaging their way through Germany

Anarcho-capitalism wants as less regulation as humanly possible within reason of course the basis of the thought for anarcho-capitalist society is based off of the first principles and the first principles or what comprise and lead to the non-aggression principle I suggest you look up the first principles

Here is a video that talks about how anarcho-capitalist Society will function without government

how an anarcho-capitalist Society will function. youtu.be/rlgaADnL-qs

OP, I'll be glad to answer you.

Capitalism, especially under a more libertarian government, at least allows some class mobility. Additionally, living standards are generally much higher for all social classes over the long-term, even for poor people. In fact, when capitalism was far less regulated in the US, the poorest 10% of US citizens were still some of the richest people on Earth.

Wealth inequality is not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, inequality isn't even a bad thing. It may seem necessary when freedom is not a clear option, but equality is not really necessary if you have the maximum amount of freedom possible.

And wherever there's freedom, there's capitalism.

Communism as an end-goal is not necessarily evil or even "bad", but the means can sometimes be more disasterous and deadly than capitalism in Africa. Even if you don't fuck up the steps toward communism, you would still be conflating freedom with equality.

Inevitably, there will be class slavery, with a government (whether it's an official government or an institution that is basically a defacto government) that always constantly keeps everyone else down in a lower class (or a few lower classes, but whatever). People in these lower classes will most likely remain in the same social classes because of how bad class mobility is under a system that's dedicated towards achieving communism. I understand that communism itself is not necessarily about governmemt control or taxation, but this is what happens when you attempt to transition towards communism.

I don't want to risk gambling the general population's freedom in order to achieve a system that promises to maximize equality (and therefore, freedom- at least in the logic of some). No, I'd rather prioritize freedom.

When you prioritize freedom over equality, you get both. When you prioritize equality over freedom, you get neither.

This deconstructionist view is anti-human. I could say that your family is just the group of people you happened to be born into. does that mean you're going to stop loving your family more than some random nigger in the 3rd world?

We are not the same. If you want people to believe that nonsense then you would have to provide evidence that we are the same. But you won't because that belief is the result of conditioning.

The Soviet Union only prospered because of slave labor. Because they needed millions of workers to move their country into the Industrial Age and they didn’t care how many died. The people kept working because the alternative was they shoot you in the head and give your shovel to somebody else.
Nobody killed more communists than communism. If it wasn’t being worked to death it was starving to death because the Soviets were run by half retarded apes who were educated by fully retarded apes with teaching degrees from the University of Moscow’s school for teaching half retarded apes.

Ok so clearly no one here has given you a valid argument.

Just keep educating yourself OP. You're clearly more intelligent and compassionate than these guys.