Explain to me in poetry on why quest markers are bad

Explain to me in poetry on why quest markers are bad.
If you can't, then that means they're good.
Let's hear it Sup Forums

Ruins exploration

They're neither good nor bad.
I'd prefer to have them during massive open-world games, but would also much prefer a magic that guides me to my objective like Fable did instead.

they're for dumb retards so stupid they can't figure shit out on their own

>Immersion
>Games were better when I was 14
>It's fun to hold forwards and check a map frequently

The journey is meaningless if you know your destination

The rose is red
The violet is blue
Markers are ass
You fucking jew

world of warcraft questing was a whole different experience when you had to actually read the quest to find out where to go and not just press M.

They turn quests into nothing more than slaying monsters

You see the fun part about a quests should be trying to solve it. Exploring and figuring out where to go and what to do.

With a quest mark, all those things are removed. A quest becomes only about following a mark to a certain place and slaying monsters

Slaying monsters for some reward which becomes tedious.

If a quest is well constructed and requires you to explore and think, then just finishing it will be a good satisfying reward for you, and not only the EXP points or some shitty reward that you get

Yes, meandering around aimlessly hoping that by some miracle your nose is pointed in the right direction is really how to have a meaningful journey.

A light guides your path
but casts a shadow around
the flowers nearby

>meandering around aimlessly hoping
you have journal you retard, clues that people give you, and a lead to follow

you're literally too dumb

The enemy outlines became starker
As the dungeon got deeper and darker
I wanted to explore
But it showed me to the door
Because this piece of shit game has quest markers

Perfect.

>he thinks every game has these

you're LITERALLY retarded.

>he thinks every game has these
what did he mean by this?

A piece of shit like Skyrim obviously is not meant for those kind of quest and if you stopped using all GPS and quest markers you would be lost because the game gives you absolutely no information related to the quest

Quest Markers are not bad in general, but they should be optional, so people who want more exploration can turn them off.

That's fucking deep

there's a clairvoyance spell that any character can cast with the minimum amount of magicka. quest markers were unnecessary.

that's if the game gives you information and direction related to a quest, if you turn off GPS in skyrim you will be fucked becuase there's nothing besides of it

And being able to turn GPS on and off would be retarded, because if a quest is a little hard and youre stuck you WILL cheat by tuning it on occasionally, don't fool anyone

>Open world RPG in a fantastical world.
>Taking out the fun of discovery and getting lost, wanderlust, and exploration

...

Yeah, I think this is the best option. Like in Dead Space, too. It's the best of both worlds with no inherent downside. If you need them, use them. If you hate them, ignore them.

You end up looking at them more than the scenery

Because you're taking a game that is supposed to be about exploration, and removing it entirely in favor of brainless follow the magical sky marker. So you stumble upon events less naturally, and you don't even need to put in an ounce of thinking. At this point, the game may as well be turned into a linear hallway game.

Name 5 new games that give you information on where to go

The problem here that we have to explain to you people in EVERY one of these threads is that games like Skyrim often do not have the NPCs or journal tell you where to go themselves. It's just, "I'll mark this on your map," so if the markers are turned off you're completely fucked, especially for radiant quests.

The only time it doesn't create a problem is when you get a quest and it highlights a new location on the map. However, this means you have to be constantly checking your map for new locations, and if you had already discovered a place before the quest now you're doubly screwed.

>new

Most of them don't and just give you a marker to follow because it requires less work, that's why many people consider new games garbage. Your point?

it supports your american lazyness and the idea you need your handheld even if your an adult or intelligent

>anybody complaining about these
>implying I'd ever play a game like this sober

They're not bad inherently. Especially in games like Bethesda games, where exploration is usually not rewarded anyway.

>I'm too stupid to follow a quest on my own

Fucking retard
Even old games like Ocarina of Time were able to to tell you where to go through visual cues and dialogue hints
Kill yourself casual faggot

>skyrim
>theres a quest using basic magic that shows you where you need to go
>Some dev thought "Well, what if they're STILL too retarded to find their way?"
>they add a mechanic that shows you where on the minimap and compass you're going, no matter what

you basically have to play that games questline on fucking rails.

That's some faulty-ass logic OP. Explain why you having a dick is good. If you can't that means it's bad.

>tfw games have been ruined because of people like OP
it makes me sad and angry at the same time, fucking casuals have to ruin everything, they couldn't leave us alone

That's why I said no INHERENT flaw with that. That's shitty writers being lazy ruining the system.

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a blinking,
As of some thing gently rapping, rapping on my quest log.
"'Tis some bullshit," I muttered, "tapping on my quest log-
Only this, and nothing more."

Quest Markers are bad,
Because they make me sad
I want to get lost, I want to find fun
But now I cannot, sans a zoot to bun
If only I could be given a direction
To rescue the damsel who gives me an erection
Or have to find my own way
To the cave of bandits who are gay
Then Skyrim might be good
And I wouldn't kill myself (but Todd Howard should)

I like quest markers. It's easier to find side and hidden stuff via not going the right way in a dungeon.
Having a dick is amazing for sticking into a vagina. No real clean up afterwards.

This Is a haiku
Markers are for idiots
You are a faggot

1. Makes it easy
2. Makes you sometimes dependable on markers because the devs haven't bothered to put in clues or tracks for a quest
3. Ruins immersion, which for some reason does not matter in RPGs anymore

Well done, however your message at the end was a bit offensive so I'll give you a B-.

>we have to explain to you people
Relax nigger. Skyrim is a bad game because it doesn't give you the clues you need to find places on your own. It starts off great with the NPC lady telling you you can see bleak falls narrow from the bridge out of Riverwood, but that's just bait, because the game never does that again.

It's dumb too that every time someone tells you to go somewhere they mark its exact position on your map. GPS precision.

Also the reacharound system in almost every single dungeon is retarded. The final room just so happens to have a secret path back to the entrance. Shame it was closed or inaccessible when you came in or you could've skipped the whole dungeon. This shows they had no solution to making players backtrack out of dungeons being boring so they took the easy way out instead of making their dungeons more fun.

Quest markers break immersion.
In an open world game,
they are a perversion.
Stop being so fucking lame.

For open world games, like GTA, and sandboxes, I think they're acceptable. Especially if the character you're playing "grew up" in the city. Having a marker to locations can go a long way into offering immersion because now you are stepping into the mind of the character who pretty much knows the city better than you fucking do.

For an RPG, I don't think markers need to be implemented and information should only go so far as stuff jotted down in your journal, inquiring locals, rumors, and doing a bit of exploring with the information you've received. Just like every old school RPG from the Baldur's Gates, Morrowind, Everquest.

I don't mind "marking on your map" or directions, but the directions have to be good, no fucking insanely vague Morrowind like directions.
If you can't do either of these right then you may as well resort to markers.
Guess you won't be shopping anytime soon then.

If you cannot find your way
That means you must be gay

This
Although I remember getting very frustrated with Planescape after being unable to find some portals

Okay, let's put it like that.

Imagine you want to write a quest. A fetch quest, you have to find a random person somewhere.

If the game doesn't have quest compass, you listen/read through the conversation, in which you hear about the NPC in question and the location where he might be in. So you get the description of his house and the town where he is - okay, you go there, look for a house with these and those features and get into it.

If the game has quest compass, you click through dialogue and chase the arrow.

Now if we'd have some weird puzzle going on, in game without quest compass you'd have to figure out everything, for example, get a book describing ritual, finding ingredients needed to perform it and placing them correctly to perform said ritual.

In game with quest compass you chase the arrow, collect quest items(ingredients) and place them automatically in the correct order.

Quest compasses are blunt as fuck and kill any finesse quest designs can possibly achieve. They discourage trying to put the hints(like the description of NPC's house or ritual book) because you know it's wasted man-hour or two(and if your game is voice acted the manhour is a fucking lot because VA;s work 4 days a week 5 hours a day or something like that), it's very well visible in newer WoW expansions where they don't even bother to give you a quest description, it's just kill 8 goblins and fornicate with 4 gnolls.

erection

just fucking turn it off
you don't have to have the quest marker active to participate in a quest, at least in skyrim. so you can still autistically comb through every line of dialogue to your hearts content

Too many ruins exploration and sense of mystery

Hark, work is done and adventure awaits
But here I sit with mouth agape
For there sits upon my eyes
A mule's carrot in disguise
My revelry is naught but swill
Grinding at another mill
No argonaut, no questing knight
Ever bore such a slight
That his strange 'venture in a strange land
Would hold him daintily by the hand
And ensures his quest unfolds without a fall
But then, so it goes without a quest at all

Markers tell you where to go
Which is ok if you can go explore
But tell me why
If the game is straight
And blocks your path each fucking time
Who thought "yeah this idea is good"
Put fucking markers on Sun & Moon

Fantastic

Just showing you where to go
Is a time saver
But where is the passion and
Where is the flavour?

I'd like to digest
Some dialogue and lore
And think to discern
What to do and what for

So instead of crafting
A rich complex world,
Each place is one tunnel
However it's curled

With no wrong turns possible
Quests are a bore
Does it have quest markers?
Dropped on the floor.

Quest markers are bad, I fucked your dad.
Your mum was the worst root I've ever had.
Now don't feel sad, well maybe a tad.
I'm coming for you next and I'll smash your asshole.

Okay, here it goes:

Quest markers are bad
Because Fuck you and fuck your mother
Nigger

Do you like my Haiku?

Amazing

> Flying through the forest with the greatest of ease
> Arriving at the marker without seeing the trees

A+ and gold star for you

Both eyes on the destination
None on the path

They ruin immersion.
>be me
>in big rpg open world
>no idea of where to go
>need to follow a digital arrow like I have a GPS
>immersion ruined
Why even bother, just make narrow hallways instead.

Look at your compass
Not the poorly textured world
Fucking casuals

Navigation is one of the only inherent design elements open world games have.

There's no level design in Skyrim beyond modular dungeons, regurgitating the same design formula of a linear loop. The overworld is bland, barren, and flat. Typography is limited to visual variation and arbitrary mountains rendered moot by the fact most have passes through.

The lack of a quest marker would at-least add some level of presumptive forethought from the player. "East of Riften by the statue of your mum, aww shit, where's Riften? Which way is east? Better keep my eyes open for the landmark". Plus the rpg games were founded based on navigating labyrinthine mazes as much as they were increment stat increases and gear.

Quest markers are great when you have found informations regarding the exact location of an item/person.

For example NPC A tell you to kill NPC B and steal his journal.
NPC A knows where NPC B lives, you have a quest marker for the house because he told you on your map.
>This way you won't have to wander like a retard like in Morrowind counting the number of crossroads and opening/ closing your map every 10 seconds.
You don't have a quest marker for the journal because only NPC B knows where it is hidden.
>This way you can still search and explore the NPC B house to find it or a clue leading you to it.

That should be the standard

Hey hoe I say
Sir Todd hath carried me away
To foreign turf in search of fun
Yet as it had begun
He told me where tay go
And with a tally hoe
Wanton hopes in toe
I trod as if possessed
For though some think it bless'd
Tis but one path to go

...

Floating markers are bad

Killing exploration makes me mad

Appealing to casuals, its all in the fad

Losing major and minor skills makes me sad.

Because in morrowind you didn't have them, what you got was a description of the area and land marks leading to the objective which you would have to read and figure out, and it was better.

Etched upon mine eyes
Visions of honey and wine
Yet mine tongue stays dry