Why can't western devs make games with good combat mechanics?

Why can't western devs make games with good combat mechanics?

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0/10 bait
Try harder next time.

Why can't Japanese devs make good games period?

Too busy focusing on 'realistic' graphics and story. Gameplay doesn't sell western games. Just whatever flashy cinematics you can stuff into a 2 minute trailer.

Boy its been about 3-4 years since I saw one of these threads.You getting bored of being banned for Witcher 3 shitposting?

How is this bait? When you think of fun combat, you think of shit like Tales of, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden. Maybe even shit like Killer Is Dead and Suda51's other games. Hell, you could count the Metroid Prime series as fun combat, or even just Metroid in general.
Why is it that I can't think of a single non-japanese game that has actually fun, engaging combat with long-lasting appeal?

Western games are stepping it up with their narratives and story telling. Japanese games are just pedo hentai garbage or interactive Shounen. There is nothing that constitutes actual gameplay.

Literally any FPS and RTS

Uhm... what/

I think of not enjoying any of those games. Actually Ninja Gaiden is maybe pretty cool though I never got good at the combat.

>western ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''game''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

>period
>question mark

>only action games have good combat

>Tales of
lol no

>mfw people try to tell me BamHam games are good

Fucking garbage games.

There's Worms. And, uh, hum. Oh, Doom. Quake. Gears of War.

>How is this bait? When you think of fun combat, you think of shit like Tales of,
I prefer Japanese games. But this alone calls you out as bait.

The Tales of series is an RPG series.
Metroid is traditionally an adventure game over action.

I don't understand. Why would you play a game and judge it based on its combat while not putting in the effort to get good at it? Also, Bayonetta is way easier to get good at than Ninja Gaiden. I recommend giving it another shot.

Not all first person shooters have equal combat, and not all of them are necessarily fun.
Same deal with real-time strategy games.
I don't know which particular games of these genres you find have good or fun combat, but I'd be willing to hear your viewpoint.

Tales of is a great series with a wide array of battle systems -- a new one for each game in the series -- most of which are well-crafted and engaging, taking time and effort to learn and become efficient in. I call that good, and fun to boot.

I don't find character action games very fun. Maybe I would if I spent however long to perfect the combat but if I don't find it fun right off the bat why would I spend dozens of hours slogging through the game learning the intricacies of the combat system?

Great examples. Worms' combat is incredibly fun and well designed, and Doom's might be a bit shallow, but it's engaging and thrilling to participate in -- both the original and recent iterations.
I didn't play much quake, but its inclusion in your list makes a lot of sense to me, as does Gears of War.

When I think of fun combat mechanics, my mind wanders towards Doom, Fighting Games, RTSs, Shmups, Dungeon Crawlers, and Tactical RPGs. Plenty of crossover between those genres.

Except when it comes to figters, the West is shit

I'm gonna post this game and all of you are gonna disagree but I know this game has fun combat and all most of you will just nag about it being defensive

Also Berserker best class anyone who says otherwise hasnt played him

m.youtube.com/watch?v=QI9M1J0v-o8

They used to
Then 7th gen happened

With a viewpoint like that, you must not play many fighting games. Learning the game should be about as fun as playing at a top level of skill.
I didn't even think about Shmups. The only shmups I can think of are stuff like Radiant Silvergun, Touhou, and Dodonpachi... So, Treasure, ZUN, and Cave? Those are all japanese devs, yep.

>I don't find character action games very fun. Maybe I would if I spent however long to perfect the combat but if I don't find it fun right off the bat why would I spend dozens of hours slogging through the game learning the intricacies of the combat system?
How the fuck do you find games like Viewtiful Joe and Bayonetta not fun right from the get-go? Go play God Hand for Christ's sake.

Jesus christ, this mentality is why fighting games are a niche genre, and the default combat of character action games is BamHam/AssCreed combat AKA simplistic, accessible, shallow shit that may look impressive and gives the impression that the player is doing some really cool stuff while in reality they are pressing a button to perform "cool cinematic finisher sequence." Casuals lap that shit up because it takes no amount of time to get to the flashy shit despite being shallow and akin to an elaborate simon says whereas games with deeper combat systems fail since it takes some effort to actually understand the mechanics and apply them to achieve rewarding, satisfying gameplay.

Nope, don't really play fighting games either. I bought SFIV to play with some people but got sick of it pretty quickly. I always have liked Mortal Kombat though.

Haven't played Viewtiful Joe since it came out but I remember like it to some extent. I'm not sure I'd put it in the same genre as DMC or Bayonetta. I've played a few hours of DMC3, DMC4, and a handful of other similar games and it's just not my thing. Never played God Hand but I doubt it would be any different.

But is hard
I have to like Actualy think n stuff
Thats boring

God Hand has a really slow start to its combat, considering it locks a lot of your options out at the beginning to let you build your own moveset. Also, the movement and camera controls are total ass. It's still a really rewarding game to learn and play at a high level, though.

So, the stupidity of the masses forces fun things to die out or become unviable in society. Cool, just like every other aspect of life, gaming is becoming narrow and restrictive, catering only to the imbeciles that are most plentiful and profitable! Soon, it'll ACTUALLY BE ILLEGAL to enjoy engaging combat mechanics!

certain first person shooters and games like chivalry if you want melee.

don't even care about "combat" in single player campaigns because virtually every current AI is so stupid you can exploit certain tactics to beat them every time.

>Never played God Hand but I doubt it would be any different.
Dead wrong.
youtube.com/watch?v=JBqB5LUKh8A
youtube.com/watch?v=t8-ZQV6KqPI

>Also, the movement and camera controls are total ass.
Dead wrong. Stop lying to the poor man.

>Why is it that I can't think of a single non-japanese game that has actually fun, engaging combat with long-lasting appeal?
because you haven't played pic related

Complaining about people not liking what you like isn't very productive. I like stealth games but those don't sell either and are dead but I don't call people who don't like stealth games idiots.

stop generalizing

doom's combat shines when you pistol start so you're force to actually manage ammo and switch weapons rather than relying on just a shotgun

As a huge fan of Mountain Blade, I don't really enjoy the combat. It could do with a serious reworking.
>Can only land a hit on one target at a time
>Enemies on any difficulty other than "Literally retarded" will party literally every attack you throw at them
>Three or more enemies simultaneously can turn from "Reasonable" to "Literally impossible" very quick
>Horses are unmatchably powerful

The strategy is really fun and deploying different units are great, but the raw combat needs work.

Metroid Prime was made by a western studio.

>Enemies on any difficulty other than "Literally retarded" will party literally every attack you throw at them
how fucking bad are you


the combat is boring in singleplayer because the bots are so shitty

I actually did play that.
It was okay.

People who enjoy more simplistic forms of entertainment and shun more complex forms are, themselves, simple minded. Besides, most popular things are objectively terrible, and yet they are still popular. People unironically enjoy things of poor quality for no reason other than they are ignorant of things that are good and well made. Or, maybe they have a sentimental attachment to it. That's not stupid.

Oh shit, boy. My argument's dead, thread over.
I'm actually pretty glad to hear that, though.

>Can only land a hit on one target at a time
you can only hit one target at a time
>Enemies on any difficulty other than "Literally retarded" will party literally every attack you throw at them
how fucking bad are you
>Three or more enemies simultaneously can turn from "Reasonable" to "Literally impossible" very quick
you just suck
>Horses are unmatchably powerful
get a polearm

So user you play Dwarf Fortress and Aurora right? Why would you play anything else that is objectively more simplified than these two games? You're not a casual are you?

Jedi Knight series> any japshit action game.

db8 me faggots!

Never played Aurora, but thanks for the suggestion.
I don't play Dwarf Fortress as my exclusive form of entertainment, though, no. I'm not that autistic, but I kind of wish I was.
Nah, I play shit like Tales games and Bayonetta. Especially considering Berseria and Bayo 2, these games are on the simpler end of the engaging combat I enjoy, and I think that reflects on me as a simpler person.
But at least I'm not playing Batman or Final Fantasy XV and rating it 10/10, then forgetting about it while engrossing myself in some Angry Birds or KleptoCats or whatever.

They don't know how to do it because they only played shit like RP""""G""""s and don't know shit about good games. The only western games with good combat are some indies with clear inspiration from japanese games.

Late night shitposting general

Lol fuck off, dwarf fortress is not hard and the combat is simplistic shit, it's basically a simulation game. If you just need to know some things beforehand to beat a game then the gameplay doesn't take skill and is bad.

I'm the guy that doesn't like character action games and I don't play Batman or FFXV either. Right now I'm playing X-COM Apocalypse and Turok 2.

I do like Angry Birds though and play it occasionally when I'm not at my computer. I've always loved those physics based artillery games like those games where you have to destroy the castle with a catapult.

Well DF is a complex game (overall, not just in its combat) and like that user said, complex = good.

>the combat is simplistic shit
This is how you know someone doesn't even played the game. What is it with weaboo anyway? They claim to want a complex and indepth game yet when the west churns out games that are objectively more complex and indepth than all japanese game put together they're fucking scared to play it. I mean CMANO alone brings their entire strategy genre to shame.

they don't want complexity they want epin anime shit

No, complex=complex, a good combat system is another thing. And DF is not that complex, the graphics are a barrier for a lot of people and that's it.
The combat is easy as fuck, but the focus of the game is not combat.

Watch this video:youtube.com/watch?v=VxRxh8Ka5H8

>DF is not that complex

I am paraphrasing but

>People who enjoy more simplistic forms of entertainment and shun more complex forms are, themselves, simple minded.

Sounds like complex = good. So if you play something besides the most complex games then that means that you're simple minded. So anyone that plays games besides DF and Aurora (Space Station 13 too maybe, though I haven't played it) are simple minded.

I think you don't even play the fucking game, i like it and people who play don't think it's hard or really complex or anything, it's a cool building/adventure games. I like roguelikes like DCSS better.

Not that guy.

>japanese games
>good combat
>literally the inventors of press A to win jrp"""""g""""""s

I was talking about how games like Devil May Cry are unprofitable because people would rather not think or learn to succeed. They'd rather not be challenged. Devil May Cry is complex, in relation to the popular games of this day, and it's a shame that the profitability of these ignorant folk is killing perfectly good developers just because they design something mechanically sound and engaging.

I am really sleepy.

Feeling smug about being above other people doesn't help your cause.

Smug? I almost envy them. I wish the things I enjoyed were generally accepted by society. I wish I could get satisfaction from the most baseline things. I wish my interests were the norm, I wish what I loved was popular, so it could be supported by more people. They have what I don't.

You should play more games and stop wasting your time on Sup Forums, underage pleb.

God of War and Lord of Shadow have decent boss fights. A bunch of Platinum games are full of QTE stuff.

Why would they? It's not worth it. It would cost them a shitload to make a proper combat system and most people wouldn't even care.

>God of War

>implying turn based combat isn't done better in Western games
I sure do like everyone lining up and then selecting a limited amount of actions through a menu. Meanwhile

>X-COM
>Jagged Alliance 2
>Silent Storm

SRPGs use similar setups but SRPGs aren't the common setup for JRPGs. And more recently JRPGs are going to the same braindead action gameplay as a lot of Western games.

Wizardry was japanese?

XCOM is a good game but it's not a fucking rpg and there's nothing wrong with it, i actually hate most rpgs j or w.

Most JRPGs aren't RPGs either.

And that's why there's actually a lot of good JRPGs but no good WRPGs.

QTEs in Platinum games are used to break up the normal gameplay with over the top cinematics, or humorous sequences. They are sometimes used mid-boss fight to give the player a chance to do extra damage, are activated voluntarily by the player to gain an advantage, or are used to grant the player power over the execution of the enemy and participation in the sequence. They interrupt gameplay only to serve as a marker of a shift in battle phases, not in lieu of actual gameplay mechanics.
Most QTEs in Platinum games do not aversely affect the player for not participating in any way more serious than missing out on some extra damage. The exception to this is Bayonetta 1, in which a few poorly prompted QTEs will instantly kill the player if not executed.

>don't think it's hard or really complex or anything

To those who already played games similar in complexity and depth which are tons in western strategy games and roguelikes. Also, try making your fort in a wasteland with monster roaming everywhere and you'll quickly change your tune m8. Not to mention, Dworf Fort combat isn't all about hitting people with sticks repeatedly, positioning is a lot more important. Even if that's the case the combat system is still complex as you have to take shitload of factors into account when striking your enemies (Adeventure mode especially).

Is DF really complex compared to its western competitors like Aurora, CMANO, HPS simulation games or Shores of Hazeron? No, not really, but when you compare it to the shit like the Japanese eroge scene and the recent AA games released then you can't help but noticed that Dworf Fort alone shits on all of them in terms of complexity. FFS, the Sengoku Rance and the Eingeki series literally have less depth and complexity than a fucking Civilization games(one of the most simplistic western strategy game series ever) and Sup Forums was gushing about how good they are. Am I just going to stand here and watch when weebs say stupid shit like jap games are better than western games?

OK enough ranting I'm going to sleep now.

>Yume Nikki
>JRPG

uwotm8?

The thing is i don't actually care about strategy games because they don't actually require skill, you need to think a bit but that's it. Action games need FAST thinking AND mechanical skill.

This is what weebs playing character action games all day actually think.

Vermintide is pretty good.

literally stop posting and go back to your shitty cuhrayzee games you retarded weeb

A lot of jrpgs are just fast paced arcadey action games with stats instead of dull, poorly balanced, buggy, janky, grindy pieces of shit that are wrpg

"RPG" is a shit genre and should just die, it's for disgusting storyfags who can't play real games.

The most important thing about QI tests is how fast you can do it.

>Comprehension, decision making, and management do not require skill.
Ok there bud.

Not when you're given infinite time.

Real time strategy games exist.

Also
>what is chess
Though chess does sometimes have a time limit on move length but it's not necessary.

>turn based games require no skill
all of this weebshit has rotted your brain

If you had said something like fighting games then I might be inclined to agree with you, but you gotta be joking me if you don't think that at the highest level of action games (even complex ones with deep combat like DMC4) they just become glorified rhythm games. There is no fast thinking involved; it all becomes muscle memory.

You done blew it OP

I am talking about real time combat, should have just said it instead of action.

user, I get the feeling that you were the type in school to always turn in homework and projects late.

supply and demand
westerners won't play hard games

>implying we are given much time at all

>what is DOOM

this is how they are used in a lot of God of War and Lords of Shadow. The point is, they are in the same style, even if they may not have equal quality. A image that shows QTE for those games and not for Plat is straight up lying.

Sounds like a realistic game. There is always diablo and arpg for guys who want to experience being an all powerful badass who kills dozens of minions with one spellcast.

I have played dmc1 and dmc4. Dmc4 on DMD as well. No doubt it was complex and satisfying but thinking about it now I think I have grown out of their brand of combat. It feels way too "anime", it's not a bad thing that people enjoy it but I prefer more realistic combat atleast now. It may be one of the reasons why DMC is unprofitable now. Besides me, I know a lot other gamer buddies that are not big on dmc's brand of combat.

dark messiah of might and magic is the very definition of fun combat

i don't like how bots can freely clip through each other.

>easiest difficulty
>doing that earns almost no points and you won't be able to get skill upgrades
>early part of the game
>like REALLY early
>none of the enemies have a single weapon, like blades, shields, tasers, or guns (which can't be countered spamming counter)
There is skill and depth and fun to these games when it comes to combat, if you press just a single button you're not going to get very far

>first person shooters
>real time strategy games
>strategy games in general
>good combat mechanics

>tfw openapoc progresses on after a slight hiatus
youtube.com/watch?v=Y3a83_eJZmg

>Hell, you could count the Metroid Prime series as fun combat, or even just Metroid in general

>Why is it that I can't think of a single non-japanese game that has actually fun, engaging combat with long-lasting appeal?

Probably because you're a retarded fucking weeb.

Yes, we all noticed that, we also noticed that it only works during the first 30 or so minutes and you're supossed to use those encounters to learn the timings, not spam the "don't hit me" button like an autist.

Yeah, I'd been paying attention to their forum but they never really did any updates since like a year or so ago but it's nice to be getting videos every day with footage. I wonder when it's going to actually be finished.

>Eastern """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Game"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

youtube.com/watch?v=47YPs-qwNQU