Isometric/Top down view is obsolete in games

Why do games with 3d graphics still do this? rpgs, mobas, hack n slash, why? This perspective sucks and is so archaic. The environments always end up looking like dioaramas with little toy people running around instead of actual worlds with unique characters. The character models are too small to truly enjoy them, which makes having things like custom skins and outfits even more pointless. Why buy a skin in a game like this when your character looks like a low detailed ant? Compare these kinds of games and their graphics to something like Uncharted 4, what would you rather look at, vast worlds with incredible detailed character models so big they fill your screen, or tiny ant people fighting in some ant world?

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It's considerably easier and cheaper to make beautiful looking environments when you only have one point of view to worry about. There should be more games with fixed cameras, not less.

(you)

because not every game is a character action game and some games involve actual tactics and gameplay where being aware of your surroundings helps?

Look at the level of detail here, the sheer size of the character models. Way more pleasant than ant sized people, and you can truly appreciate different outfits and looks on said characters. Meanwhile dota 2, you can get a new cape on invoker and strain your eyes trying to make out any details at all, and only being able to see it from above, not from the side or head on.

Adding to what this user said, and having an isometric view solves a lot of clarity issues that come with a straight top down view. It's easier to convey information about the models from a skewed view.

the cosmetic items only exist as a way for valve to make money, they're not part of the game

Many fps games involve tactics, and have large character models and real sized environments. Not small ant people running in dioramas. It looks goofy and silly.

Who cares if it's cheaper, it looks awful and laughably silly. Look at Tyranny, how can you take this shit seriously? It's an rpg too, so how would you have gear, you'd barely even be able to see how it looks!

>It's considerably easier and cheaper to make beautiful looking environments when you only have one point of view to worry about
Then why the fuck do devs make their terrains look like plastic shit with cartoonish graphics 9/10 times?

But cosmetic means they should add visual appeal, how can they be visually appealing when the characters are so small you can barely see them?

youtube.com/watch?v=TziLpj4fSTg

Imagine if the game let you see the characters at that size, you'd actually enjoy the costumes.

>Many fps games involve tactics
no fps game has 1/10th the strategy involved in an actual top-down strategy game and those top down strategy games would play worse if they were in first person

Why can't Dota 2 be considered isometric?

youtube.com/watch?v=ant5lA81Cg0

Imagine being a 40k fan, wanting to renenact the insane brutal wars in the lore of the 40k universe. But this is what you're stuck with, playing as tiny ant sized people you struggle and strain to see on your screen, in diorama environments. How is this even fun? Why not make it a third person shooter or use that perspective, instead of this fake wannabe god toy shit?

dota was a top-down game first, they added cosmetics in much later. if you think they should redesign it just so they can jew people harder and because graphics matter more than gameplay, well

How do you fucking play a strategy game in first person you tard?

>its a bait thread
>People actually respond to bait
When will people learn

controlling multiple characters is much easier in top-down than first person
there are also third-person and first-person warhammer games where you play as one character

It is, and it's bad because of it, all mobas except smite and paragon have this same issue. Did you know people spend hundreds of dollars buing skins for these characters, despite them being so small they can never enjoy the details?

youtube.com/watch?v=aCHGDFaHhT0

Look at all the effort wasted on that shit, when you can barely even fucking see it on your screen.

I don't like Tyranny's look, but Pillars of Eternity, for example, looks excellent.

>implying real life wars/combat situations have no strategy, since you look through your own eyes, and not floating above your body like an out of body experience

Really man?

are you aware that battlefield commanders use top-down maps of the battlefield and move pieces around that represent armies?

I agree with this but "fixed camera" and "top down" aren't necessarily joined at the hip. In the same vein, I think day/night cycles are stupid and largely pointless, and if devs would just use static lighting games could actually look next gen instead of like remastered PS3 games.

Jesus wtf? Wtf is the point of all that damn detail? You can barely even see shit. How small are the people, I bet they're like ants.


Oh wait, they are, look how fucking small they are, jesus.

Maps or a top down view of the battlefields dominant terrain formed onto the ground from random debris and such, simulating a third person view of the battlefield.

Dota2 is not isometric, it's from a close perspective from above.

I agree, when I talk about fixed camera, I also talk about stuff like Resident Evil, for example.

are you just butthurt because you need glasses

For rts games I can concede, but what about mobas and rpgs? You play as those characters, not some faceless commander leading troops. How can I enjoy playing Invoker in dota and identify with him when he's the size of a damn ant?

Close enough, it has the same damn issue, you can't see shit, so detail is pointless

That looks pretty damn good too. Is this a thread dedicated to show how pretty Pillars of Eternity looks?

>1920x1080
there's your problem, I play on 55' 4k screen.

Is that Dota2? Holy shit they still rip off WC3 so blatantly it's hilarious. I know the origins but come on guys. By now you should be past that.

just get bigger screen or glasses, your just complaining about a non-issue.

Free camera with no angle and height restrictions is best.

Man, I always wanted to play a game where you do your standard strategy shit, you know, build structures and armies and such, but you can also, at any moment, pick a unit and just control it from a 3rd or 1st person and each unit has their special moveset so it's not like you're just watching through their eyes, you actually control what they do. That would be rad.

You can actually play with a third person view. Go do it right now and see how well you fare.
Also i wont give you any more (you)s unless you come up with some different bait, you've been recycling your material.

A top down view gives the player more information, something critical in games and decision making. FPS or even third person view hides more of the player's surroundings which immediately hamstrings the strategy of the game. If you want some immersive fantasy simulation the top down view is useless to you but if you want solid strategic gameplay it's practically required.

I've listened to some game designers argue that even for top down action games a scrolling screen is harmful to the gameplay because shit like bullets/attacks/enemies suddenly coming into the player's view feels too unpredictable.

Now imagine how large nathan drake would be on a 55 inch screen. Way bigger than this ant people shit.

What would you rather see, this, or fucking dawn of war 3, ant edition?

youtube.com/watch?v=5HMnHfFH8oM

3d modeling is wasted if you're gonna use it for a top down/isometric viewpoint.

in top-down rpgs like tyranny you also control multiple characters
mobas can go either way, considering dota and league play on a completely 2D plane, converting them to 3D without seriously changing the mechanics would really just be wasting the players screen real estate when you'd benefit more from a tactical view

dawn of war 3 is supposed to be an RTS game, and it's not the worlds fault if you need glasses

Smite did it, so did paragon. What's dota and lol's excuse?

Even if my screen were literally the size of a movie theatre screen, nathan drake would still be way larger than these ant people.

okay dude this is too obvious, be more creative and think out some better points for next time you bait.

It's the world's fault when they create a game for a franchise known for attention to detail yet make everything tiny as fucking shit.

I want a STALKER game like this, in real time with pause. The same atmosphere, highly realistic, with in-depth control scheme and a massive map, preferably the entire Zone.

dota was a mod for an rts. you can also change the camera angle in dota and play uncharted style, see how well you do

The excuse is a positive balance sheet

sure but so? you wouldn't need a magnifying glass to see all the detail in isometric games either, or you'd be blind.

>a franchise known for attention to detail
do you have any fucking clue what you're talking about? Warhammer is a tabletop game where you paint tiny, ant-people dioramas that you've been complaining about and have little tabletop battles with them

Because iso allows for totally different game mechanics and gameplay feel.

Compare da:o to da:I

Inquisition although it can be played in iso was clearly designed around a more mass effecty 3rd person feel.

DotA 2 in 3rd person would be a totally different game, playstyles would change up so much and many skills and items wouldn't make sense as you can't pan around when you are 3rd person without it feeling very disorienting as well as it being very weird

Yes, but what is the point of gameplay if every character looks like a tiny ant person?

I enjoy the cosmetics just fine. If your playing at least a 1920 res various skins look great with all kinds of little details.

Cosmetics is a shit argument against DotA too considering it's so secondary to the actual game

Sorry you can't self insert your fat ass into a handsome invoker like you can Nathan Drake, probably the only outlet you have for anything close to human interaction

It doesn't even have to be totally fixed. Nobody gives it credit because it's a shitty game, but FFXIII made a pretty admirable attempt at "semi-fixed" camera, which slowly panned over the environment on a fixed path as you walked through. Other games occasionally do this, but with FFXIII you could tell it was really deliberate and a strong attempt to recreate the feeling of classic Final Fantasy with fully 3D environments. Just this small restriction, though, already makes it possible to do a lot of "cheats" to improve the look and performance of a game.

Of course, it's pretty annoying/boring to just walk down endless hallways(as literally everyone and their mother pointed out), so you could mix it up with larger vistas and "hallways" which serve as "setpiece" type moments, and then denser, more explorable areas that are a bit less graphically extravagant and rely heavily on occlusion culling and skyboxes.

What game? Is it worth it?

Guys stop let the bait thread die it's so obvious.

Too bad the only dev who could pull it off is ded.

Marauder.
Yes.

How can you enjoy the cosmetics in dota 2? Everything is so tiny it looks like little toys in a diorama, it doesn't feel like an actual, living world with unique characters

>hurrr looks awful and laughably silly
>no they don't look at this masterpiece
>HURRR WHY SO MANY DETAIL REEEEEE

Make up your mind piece of shit.

>The environments always end up looking like dioaramas with little toy people running around instead
Dioramas are pretty and cute. Also it allows for better control of the battlefield.
>makes having things like custom skins and outfits even more pointless
Why do you care so much about outfits? Are you a girl? Are you cute? Will you marry me? Please say yes.

Because they're lazy and can sell it off as an "artistic style"

In DOTA 2's case it's to make modelling easy as fuck for cosmetics to rake in cash

Maybe I just have better eyes than you but I don't play any games from iso where characters are ant sized, as that's probably about two to three pixels in height.

A game like DotA was designed for this iso-like view so you can veiw everything on the map and take in all the information you need, more than just your character. If you want to jerk off you can always zoom in.

Smite and paragon as so successful and well known becau-

Oh wait, they are fucking irrelevant. Theres like no comp scene because of the lacking tactics and skin deep mechanics.

>Is this a thread dedicated to show how pretty Pillars of Eternity looks?
Well, it's a thread about "isometric" games, and Pillars is one of the prettiest ones to date. Until Pillars 2 comes out with its 3D effects on top of 2D maps and exotic locations, anyway.

Free camera is fucking awful. It's pretty much developers admitting "okay, you know, we don't fucking care, we're going to set up encounters the way you'll have to constantly rotate the camera around if you want to see fucking anything, have fun faggot".

Guys i have a confession to make. OP left very early. Half of the posts are me parroting OP's bait

>I play on a 8" B&W TV from the 50's

Inquisition played way better than DA:O though, and I got to enjoy how my character looked. I couldn't even make out details on Alistair in Origins for fuck sakes, due to that camera angle.

Also I'm going to shill Brigador and you can't do anything to stop me.

Taking one for the team, then?

>Why do you care so much about outfits?

I care about outfits because it boggles my mind why people would spend so much money on shit they can't even fucking SEE

youtube.com/watch?v=qtTkEcJRsbM

people spent 30 bucks on that...

Only PC faggots still play top down view games everyone else have move away from that archaic system ages ago.

How people spend their money is their fucking problem IMO

Designing a game around restricted camera also puts restrictions on game mechanics and level design, so it's much worse.
Free control is best.

they can see them, you just have impaired vision

hurf durf feggtz

git off mai vidyer

Are the games part of a series? What order do people recommend playing these, including something like Torment and that new Numenara?
>living under a rock

A game can't be 100% realistic. You need to make compromises.

quads

It's not about realism, but variety and options.

Then how come anytime I played dota or lol, anytime someone died, their go to response was "OMFG I didn't see him/her"? Come on now.

Because it's about the gameplay. Imagine playing dota2 in first person vsing someone playing from that view. You would be so fucking shit, I mean look at how terrible paragon games look from a gameplay perspective.

You can have plenty of both with a fixed camera, though. Like, well, I'm struggling to think of stuff you can't do with fixed. Shooting through the ceiling like in Silent Storm? Probably doable.

3rd person and especially 1st person actually ruin immersion for me most of the time. I think it's because at any given moment in a first person game, the amount of interactable/significant entities on the screen is pretty much nothing. Until we have VR with photorealistic graphics, having more stuff to do will always trump perspective. Hell even then, if it's all still just static props and random junk that you can't interact with, there'd still be a case for top-down.

because people can hide in the fog of war or the bushes
if you want to argue about why something is bad it helps to understand what you're talking about

you should try showcase mode if you can't handle the birds eye perspective

That's better but now the graphics look like shit. Why can't they remake dota 2 to look like uncharted 4?

Tyranny is trash, don't play it.
Pillars of Eternity is great, it's not part of a series, it's its own thing. Check it out.
Dunno about Torment.

I just have a toaster with render rate sub 100%

gotta say i didnt find halo wars 1 that interesting, halo was better as FPS than top down with miniclip tier graphics

Because then the gameplay will be as shit as uncharted 4.

The difference is you can't interact with the set peices there with the same depth that you can interact with the map on Dota 2

it looks good