Elder Scrolls VI

Elder Scrolls VI

1. How does combat in general need to advance in a new installment?

2. What about magic? How do you improve this without forcing constant quick menu pauses?

3. Leveling. What can be done here?

Lets figure this out.

>1. How does combat in general need to advance in a new installment?
copy zelda
>2. What about magic? How do you improve this without forcing constant quick menu pauses?
copy zelda
>3. Leveling. What can be done here?
leveling is an antiquated concept that should be purged--this is supported by their desire to use "leveled loot and mobs"

Weapon wheel and magic wheel

Bring back athletics and acrobatics

Spear and shield would be a refreshing playstyle

Comprehensive job system

>continue settlement building, introduce trade routes
> finally make proper merchant character

I've given up on The Elder Scrolls.
If they make an announcement for a sixth installement that actually looks really good then I can get back on the hype train.
Otherwise my new favourite franchise is Metal Gear Solid. I know I'm late to the train but holy fuck these games are done so well. Don't know how I could think Bethesda was a decent developer.

>1
Either go back to dice rolls or make an actual fucking combat system. Stop half-assing both.
>2
Bring back utility magic, make combat spells slightly more like Dragon's Dogma
>3
Take it back to the Morrowind level scaling and loot system. I won't even mind the skill centered leveling system as much if they just fix the retarded level scaling.

The perfect Elder Scrolls game (will never happen):
>Arenas map
>Daggerfalls map size/abilities (can climb up walls and shit)
>Morrowinds inventory systems, lore, story, and weapon and spell variety
>Oblivions comfiness (also Shiveirng Isles was Morrowind tier so take a lot of shit from that too)
>Skyrim combat and graphics

Elder Scrolls combat needs to evolve beyond the spamfest it currently is. The most interesting part of the combat now is timing between your and your enemy's blocks, and destruction magic and dual wielding don't even offer that much interaction. With those two you just hold down buttons until your enemies die. Rather, the player needs to be able to analyze a situation and have a list of options to choose from in order to defeat their opponents. 1v1ing a guy in heavy armor? Swords shouldn't do shit, axes and hammers should be very obviously more effective. Your opponent has no shield and is wielding a sword? Be able to attack from their side without the sword in it, since it's so hard for them to counter. Bethesda loves to pretend there's a difference between swords/axes/maces/etc. but they've never made a game where the differences were significant.

And for the love of god bring back spears and make hand-to-hand an interesting option. If I could play a character with the ability to disarm enemies and knock them out with less than 20 punches I'd be in love.

>the next elder scrolls game will be a procedurally generated Akavir
>voiced protagonist
>no skills or attributes or perks

For magic, actually make spells scale by skill level and then focus on offering a wider variety. If you're only going to give me one flamethrower spell, its power should go up as my destruction level increases.

Also make fire/frost/shock more effectively different. I never considered using shock because it drains enemy magicka, nor using ice because of its ability to drain fatigue. They just didn't compare to blowing shit up immediately.

Skyrim combat is still pretty shitty

pretty shitty? really my dude?
it's some of the worst combat in the history of video games

Really now?

Fuck the current leveling system. If ES VI is going to have good combat, it will have to be skill based. If it's going to have good classic RPG mechanics like skills and attributes, the combat and adventuring will have to reflect that somehow. The two just don't work well together and will both have to be reworked completely. The non-combat skills are also virtually useless besides sneak. Either they need to be integrated as a potential playstyle (ex. a 'merchant' or 'bard' route, complete pacifist) or they need to level much faster so it feels like they're actually usable.

It doesn't fucking matter, no amount of harkening back to older games or great new ideas to fix the series will be listened to, so it's almost pointlessly depressing to imagine what could be when we know what will be.

We're on Todd's ride now and you better fucking like it because we're going mainstream apparently, depth is no longer relevant or desired.

We're "trimming the fat" until the anorexia is diagnosed & then we'll call it a day.

Fuck off. If anything they need to throw level scaling out the window.

what's your reasoning to include leveling in the modern "RPG"?
there are plenty of other methods to gate things with balance in mind

Agreed.
My first was Morrowind and that was one thing that pissed me off about Oblivion when I first played it. Makes you feel like your character isn't becoming more powerful when everything else around you is constantly getting stronger.

I tried replaying Oblivion recently and it honestly just feels like a slog if it takes you a long time to level. There's no place to go to find more exciting content, you just have to grind skills until you can level up and have fun.

As someone who has literally spent 10000 hours playing Oblivion I concur.
I went back and replayed it after replaying Morrowind and there is this huge difficulty curve in the middle of the game. I don't know how I never noticed it.

Yeah, level scaling is retarded. I also fucking hate how annoying efficient leveling was in oblivion/morrowind. You would have to level up your skills just the right amount for that +5 bonus on attributes. Just give us the leveling system in morrowind but without the efficient leveling dilemma. (Also if you don't level up endurance right away you are screwed. They would have to fix that too.)

>1. How does combat in general need to advance in a new installment?

1. Add rolls, dodges and parries

2. Make shields actually block instead of just giving you a tiny damage reduction.

3. Nerf the FUCK out of enemy mages. Then again if you add dodges and rolls or fix blocking you probably don't need to do this. In Skyrim though shields didn't do anything against elemental damage until VERY late in the game if you invest in the block magic perk or whatever it's called. When you had to fight a mage you just had to bend over and hope you don't die by the time they run out of Magicka or cheat by taking cover behind a solid object

4. Assign a button (probably something on the D-pad because Bethesda never uses it anyway) to healing potions like in Witcher, Amalur and (kinda) Souls.

5. Fix your difficulties. I always play Skyrim on nothing higher than Adept because on high difficulties enemies just become damage sponges and are impossible to beat without exploiting the bad AI and being cheap.

>2. What about magic? How do you improve this without forcing constant quick menu pauses?

Both my playthroughs of Skyrim were as heavy armor warriors (one with 2H weapons and one w/ a sword & shield) so I'm not really qualified to give an answer as all I used was healing.

3. Leveling. What can be done here?

I actually really like TES leveling but it's more of a taste thing.

I've always appreciated games where everything scales to your level because then you don't have to grind through side stuff you have no interest in just to keep on pace, and you can do side quests whenever you want and have them still have a challenge.

I can understand the counter-argument that auto-scaling takes away your sense of progress but I honestly disagree. In a game like the TES series as you level up you get special perks that optimize your abilities and give you new moves, attacks and special stuff you didn't have a couple of levels ago so leveling up is still useful.

>Also if you don't level up endurance right away you are screwed
That was "fixed" in Skyrim.
I used the word "fixed" loosely though because they removed attributes altogether.

I am glad these anons are not actual devs.
They could take all the joy out of a a blowjob.
It would be all teeth.

How would you feel if the overall world was static in level, but there were more radiant quests that were level appropriate?

>I can understand the counter-argument that auto-scaling takes away your sense of progress but I honestly disagree. In a game like the TES series as you level up you get special perks that optimize your abilities and give you new moves, attacks and special stuff you didn't have a couple of levels ago so leveling up is still useful.
Okay but hear me out. Which sounds cooler?
>unique game item (like a sword or some shit) is flaunted in front of you behind a not story related boss who will fuck your shit if you are not high level with top gear
or
>randomly generated swords and you occasionally get a cool one if you kill a legendary bandit or some stupid shit

Yeah, TES has never had a decent leveling system. The Endurance problem has existed as early as fucking Arena. Daggerfall didn't have the multiplier bullshit but instead it was Fire Emblem-tier RNG for attribute points and health bonus so you are encouraged to savescum your level ups. You already expalined what was wrong with Morrowind/Oblivion's near-identical leveling systems and Skyrim cut pretty much everything out.

The best leveling system in TES games are the mods for Morrowind and Oblivion like GCD that make attributes level naturally just like skills already do. Your attributes become a function of your skillups and your* level becomes an average of your attributes. Sure, you don't get the satisfaction of a level up screen but it's the best way to implement the TES-style "level up according to what you do" system of which I think is a really good concept for an RPG compared to picking whatever stats you want.

*"Your" level is a bit of a misnomer when it comes to Elder Scrolls, since in every single game from Arena through Skyrim the level you see on the character sheet more accurately describes the level of the rest of the world.

fuck fallout 4 settlements, what a chore

unchore them for tes6

They were honestly fun for the first bit but got boring incredibly fast.
If they made self sustaining settlements the whole idea would be a lot cooler.

>suspiciously missing from this discussion
Interesting characters
Environments with depth and interaction
Personality

We can't have everything user.

But if you made me choose I would pick everything you listed over combat. Morrowind had a shit ton of personality and a good handful of fun characters, Skyrim and Oblivion were boring as fuck in that department.

>interesting characters
What about Adoring Fan and Maiq the Liar or however you spell his fucking name?

oblivion was leagues ahead of skyrim in personality in everything except environments

If they somehow fixed the shitty menus and made some interesting locations and a decent amount of customisation they could be good

hell even the 5 voice actors they had in oblivion were miles ahead of the 90 they used for skyrim

Right there with you. You can mod combat.

I just can't see myself wandering around another Elder Scrolls game, with all of the shallowness. All that lore, and no compelling story? Like playing an encyclopedia.

They fixed a broken leg by cutting the entire thing off.

The thing about Skyrim is that the weapons and armor isn't entirely random. Like Dwarven items don't start spawning as random loot in chests through the RNG until you hit level 9 and merchants don't start selling that until level 14 (Not sure if that's those are the exact numbers but that's how the system works).

When I was like 140 hours into my first Skyrim playthrough and Ebony armor starting popping up, I felt really awesome and like my time investment really payed off.

I was really disappointed in how armor and weapons in TW3 worked because I found out that "unique" super-strong body armor that I found can't be used for another 6-7 hours, and then a couple hours later merchants start selling that same piece of armor but now it's on my new level, so that really cool find is completely obsolete and is about as effective as a shirt of cardboard.

Not even.
They amputated the leg because of a bruise.

"Streamlining" the game, because if you have no limbs you can fit through the smallest hole.

I'm going to try and answer these questions seriously and without any memes so forgive the length.

1. Weapons needs to have actual weight. If you use a Warhammer, it needs to be something you actually feel resistance swinging depending on your Strength Attribute, which is obviously something they need to bring back. That being said, the weapons, should they hit their target should feel like you just bashed open an enemy's skull like an overripe melon.

I think the archery stuff is pretty good as it is though I think it should be like Elite Sniper V where different things happen depending on where you hit the opponent, like a guard shouldn't die just because you hit him in the leg and his health bar was low you need to finish him off either by stabbing him with a dagger or a headshot.

2. As far as UI is concerned I think that magic spells should be delegated to a wheel with sixteen slots on it, and you press up on the d-pad to activate it while down on the d-pad to reach your quick inventory, which is another circle with sixteen slots in it.

In general though I think Magic needs to be more involved. I think that Magic needs to be like Shouts, where you have to learn different runes and then you can combine them together to make different enchantments that do different things, bringing back the spellmaking from Morrowind.

3. I don't actually understand how leveling works in Skyrim but I know in Oblivion is was straight correlation to your level which I think is fine as it keeps the game fresh and challenging. However, one thing I noticed on my last replay of Skyrim was that you can literally spam leather bracers until you can smith Dragon Armor which isn't how it works in real life, so I think that once you unlock another branch in a skill tree you should have to level up that next specific skill before you can move further, and Guilds should have specific skill requirements to join and advance in like they did in Morrowind.

>bring back morrowind-style stats
>take a page from m&b and other similar games for combat mechanics
>add more weapon types
>fix stealth archery more or less trivializing the rest of the game
>reimplement spell crafting
>have more interesting spells, skyrim's were dogshit and boring
>have spells actually fucking scale to a stat
>customizable weapon/magic wheel
>remove level scaling entirely and go back to having areas that are actually hard
>make it in a brand new engine

I had a ton more fun with Skyrim when I picked up Requiem.
Level scaling is a "halfway-committed" mistake that they should get rid of. Either go full on level gating things or go full on removal of levels.
Combat suffers from the same thing, eg. RPG vs. realism.

The only quest in Skyrim I really liked was the creepy lighthouse where the family got abducted by the spider ants that burrowed in through the basement.

I guess that would be better but still not as good as auto-scaling.

I don't want to have to spend 30 hours being Tamriel's bitch errand boy grinding my way through trivial tasks so I don't get my shit kicked in by the next boss.

I'm seriously struggling to enjoy the new Nier because I'm always at least 6 levels below everyone since I don't want to run around in circles looking for gear parts to help scavengers or kill the same respawning enemies like I'm the world's worst pest exterminator.

Thankfully in Skyrim and FO when you clear a dungeon or area you actually clear it. That way you feel like you've legitimately accomplished something and have an incentive to explore.

how for or against es6 having fallout styled limb damage are you?

Is it out? No?
damn

Limb damage would be great as long as it had significant effects

never knew why they didn't put it into skyrim
i understand there's a lot of FO3/engine references to it in the editors

w-what?

More weapon choices than 1h, 2h, and bow. Hits need to have impact. Enemies need to not end up being shitty damage sponges. Crafting needs to not break combat.

Spells need to actually scale. Utility spells should come back. New kinds of spells that actually work with other playstyles. Spellcrafting would be nice if they can make it not broken; maybe rip off Tyranny's system some way?

...

The story is that the husband had been hearing noises in the cellar, so he goes into town to buy some rat traps. When he comes back, he finds this

>1
copy dragons dogma

this dude is legit fucking retarded and zelda combat sucks. can you climb and stab a giant cyclops or a flying griffin? nah. fuck you. zelda combat is "parry to flurry strike" wow so fucking good.

Do you think every dungeon should scale? Or they should just keep it like Skyrim, so some dungeons are always for higher levels and some are always for low?

I have been there but i dont remember nothing.
300h playd

The most important thing is to ditch the radar and GPS enabled map. Don't tie every cool bit of lore/Easter egg/item to a quest that holds your hand the whore way.

Because of this most of the time you just follow a mark on your "radar". You don't actually explore shit. And why would you?

A focus on getting immersion back is by far the most important.
1.) Their idea of "difficult" combat is a one hit wonderland. You basically one shot them or vice versa. I'd rather have damage sponges than that. Put some thought into it. Make stamina matter, for example. Games like DaS and MH etc. do a pretty good job at combat, but TES can do better with their skill system.

Tl;Dr

Add some fucking depth.

2.) Magic is more or less fine. With at least easy 9 programmable hotkeys on most PCs you should be fine. I would also be ok with a quick swap system where you can change out spells. But since they killed making your own it really isn't a big deal as most spells have pure upgrades so in reality there are only a handful of useful ones. This may change if they improve combat and the need for utility skills/spells.


3. Get rid of the perks. The other games even did it better. Use ___ skill, get better at it. With "perkpoints" you have to, for example, level up restoration to effective get better and using great-swords. That's fucking retarded.

They better copy the combat from Elder Scrolls: Online

>Morrowinds inventory systems, lore, story, and weapon and spell variety

You forgot Morrowinds creatures and ecosystems. Or maybe you lumped that in with lore. Either way compare the creature variety of that game to Skyrim using even the wiki. One was an immersive, living world. Skyrim is a copy paste of some well known creatures from common lore. Creative laziness needs to die.

no

although the armour customization from eso would be really nice

I like the way they did it with Skyrim because I never noticed it.

An RPG that has a good leveling system should be one in which you don't notice it. It should feel natural and not interrupt the game's pace or flow.

This as well.
And they will use denuvo so we won't get things like script extenders. But no one uses those anyway.

Not that user but that some apples and oranges right there.

Actually, I agree. That was pretty good.

>get out of jail/tutorial dungeon
>the first town gets destroyed (Kvatch, Helgen, ect) by something
>go back and rebuild it with the fo4 settlement system

No.

Just take the best of Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 4. Asking for anymore is asking way too much, and frankly I think so was that.

Level locking needs to die, and there should be areas where going to at low levels is death. It kills immersion imo. I had to mod everything to have a min level of 30 and max of 100, with 50 being the average min. just to keep things interesting. I spend over 400 hours making mods, and I played it for ~ 200. That's fucked up.

at least I COULD I suppose

Change the dogshit engine into an actual one and I couldn't give less of a fuck tbqh famalam

1. Just give me more weapon styles (spear, clubs) and a potion or enchantment that isn't a mod that gives me faster attack speed

2. Make Conjuration spells like summon familiar use soul gems of creatures/npc's that are trapped (like in Morrowind it would show you what creature you've soul trapped)

3. The common Bandit should be the only enemy that should level with you.

other misc thing I'd like to see
>Oblivion's lock picking minigame
>Disposition
>No quest markers on the world map
>More than one way to enter a city/town (for thief/assassin roleplay)
>Make fast travel a once a day power or a scroll
>Perk system like Fallout 3/New Vegas's perk system (every second or third level)
>City guards that do their jobs ( following you if your disposition is low or have criminal pasts in other areas)

>1. How does combat in general need to advance in a new installment?
They need to add directional swinging and directional blocking/parrying, like in Mount and Blade, Condemned, and Chivalry. I want timing and direction to matter a lot like in those 3 games. Quickstep should exist. Athletics should be brought back, and it should affect quicksteps as well. Also, unarmed could use more martial arts.

I have an impossible expectation though. They should mimic Jedi Academy's combat. You know, fortify jump is triggered by holding the jump button, cycling through equipped spells in place of force powers, doing slick acrobatics, and all that stuff. I'll die of happiness if that actually comes true.

>What about magic? How do you improve this without forcing constant quick menu pauses?
I think it's alright to map magic spells to numeric buttons, but they should fix the UI. I just want crazy customizations like what Morrowind had. And levitation, although I'm really sure they'll bring it back this time.

>Leveling. What can be done here?
Enemies should be scaled in accordance to their respective areas, not your level. I have nothing against radiant quests with level scaling though. That's how they should do it, higher level radiant quests should have high level enemies and reward more money. You should be given a chance to play radiant quests that are beyond your level to create a high reward high risk situation.

BoTW's combat was shit.

>make combat spells slightly more like Dragon's Dogma
No, that would be overly complex and pointless. I just want to freely customize damage and range of a spell like in Morrowind.

>2. Make Conjuration spells like summon familiar use soul gems of creatures/npc's that are trapped (like in Morrowind it would show you what creature you've soul trapped)
Not quite what you mean, but I thought a really cool feature in Daggerfall was that when an enchanted item broke the creature whose soul powered it would be released and attack you right there.

Of course it wouldn't really work in a game where they can be repaired and don't break permanently, but it was cool.

The handful of combat spells in Skyrim were nice in their variety, (Though there really should have been even more,) but that was all negated due to the fact that each type was for a specific level. You can't use the stream attacks like sparks at high levels efficiently. It wouldn't even had been hard either. Just make 4 copies of sparks and other assorted combat spells with different damage and mana cost and Boom! Magic just got a million times better. But magic in general was underpowered. They should have at least had spell damage enchantments from the start, or more perks or something.

Although I praised the "variety" of spells, Midas magic had some truly novel ones that fit in a niche of combat. Like a spell that does more damage as it travels, a spell that does more damage if it hits an enemy from behind, an enemy that does high damage if it is the first spell used in combat, etc. Bethesda needs to add spells like that, plausible at all levels of combat, if they really want to save magic.

>>No quest markers on the world map
At least this, for the love of god.

>Make fast travel a once a day power or a scroll

Only if they make respawns a thing w/out mods. I don't like walking through an area I cleared.

>Perk system like Fallout 3/New Vegas's perk system

Fuck no. And open world game that limits what you can do because your "brain is full" is idiotic as hell.

>City guards that do their jobs ( following you if your disposition is low or have criminal pasts in other areas)

B-but that racist!!!!

>BoTW's combat was shit.
It's honestly a thousand times more fun than Skyrim's with all the potential elements you can harness around you. Even the whacky-whacky was more entertaining with weapon smashing.

The combat won't advance in any way because of the first person view. Of they want to make better combat then they'd have to drop FPV.

Magic could be solved to just having a dedicated magic quickslot that cycles through 5 spells. If you want more then you have to pause to use quick menu.

Leveling was fine in Skyrim.

Just go back to Morrowind combat and magic. Flawless.

>more fun than skyrim
no shit

>with all the potential elements you can harness around you
The hitbox is crappy, the frame lags made everything looks worse, and the lack of gore makes it look not so meaty.

I know you're joking but I wouldn't mind this at all.

>The combat won't advance in any way because of the first person view. Of they want to make better combat then they'd have to drop FPV.
I can understand this viewpoint if you've never played Might & Magic or even to a lesser degree Chivalry, and only think you can compare to games like Dark Souls or Witcher or Nier or whatever.

I think it should work like Jedi Knight. With bare hands or magic equipped, the game should automatically switch into first person view. With your weapons, it should automatically switch into third person. Of course this should customizable in the menu.

>morrowind's combat
Fuck you.

>Combat
Make it so heavy weapons cause opponents to actually stagger or get knocked on their ass, make putting poison on blades and daggers actually fucking do something for a change. Alternatively, make it so that missing an attack leaves you vulnerable.
>Magic
You can set 5 spells, then swap between them as you wish, but can only reconfigure them while resting somewhere, make extremely good scrolls very uncommon or rare
>Leveling
Give more incentive for exploration as you level with better loot, or more unique enemies, quests and weapon variety. That way faggots don't sit there at level 1 with 100 points in different skills. Alternatively make it so you have to be a certain overall level to meet journeyman, and master skill bonuses.
As for enemies...
Keep it like Morrowind's level scaling where enemies you encountered would change, but you could still get your shit pushed in if you don't prepare correctly.

Ok, in the terms of combat, exactly what does anybody think they can do? Can they go back to a more traditional style of RPG combat? Or would it be best to deconstruct and rebuild from whatever is a hint of decent combat mechanics in skyrim? After playing through it as warrior again a few weeks ago, its bare bones with a couple of broken ribs.

it's 2017
traditional combat belongs in the fucking 90s
skyrim is a game from the fucking 90s

Completely my man. Morrowind had utter dogshit combat and magic compared to a lot of other games, but it worked. You hit things and they died or you missed and got fucked. The game didn't baby your pussy ass with blocking whenever you pleased and charge attacks. For magic, you broke it or you were a fuckboy. And breaking it was not hard. Magic is absurdly powerful, and was basically limitless and this was a great thing. This was an RPG, not Fallout 4.
Combat and magic (to an extent) were dogshit, but I would trade them in a heartbeat for voiced protagonist, dumbed down attributes, quest markers, or even souls type combat (fun and well designed) in a game with skyrim type everything else.

>Make it so heavy weapons cause opponents to actually stagger or get knocked on their ass
I think FO4 already has flinching and staggering.

So what you're saying is, series doomed and the game will be shit. Well, more money for the wallet then.

Aye, best wait for Bannerlord and the TES mods people will create for it.
Not just the reskins of the base game, but the people who take collaborative works of dialogue and work on several quests for the world, work on a functional, fun magic system for armies than doesn't obliterate balance or make the game easy as fuck (see Elder Kings), etc.
Gonna get some good shit with the game hitting mainstream from their Warband success.

Bring back spears.

>Do it like Zelda or Mountain Blade
>Have a quick spell menu spell crafting and fusing, also include more offensive magic than cliche ass Fire/ice/lightning
>Make it like oblivion, or zelda where you have to pray at a shrine to "level up" once you have enough XP.

Still sucks though. It really does feel like its either they put every once of effort they have to make a decent sequel, or it will fall into obscurity like fallout 4. Shame though, theres potential behind the lore of tes, just needs somebody to really get their head out of they're ass.

I would like to be able to climb ladders.

>TES game with good combat

funny

tes games are for people who don't play video games

elaborate

Morrowind was decent. Unless you think "lol, only action iz good guiez" or you intentionally made yourself a god.

improved version of Elder Scroll Online with more sandbox than ESO will be ok.

The next TES game will feature at least 1 transgender khajiit. My dubs confirm this.

i wish TES will give me a little more options for me to create "slightly" better looking char.
I wish.

i dont understand it either why everyone is ugly in TES game? It's not like every single person is ugly in the past.

r-reroll