Original NieR had better boss fights and camera switching segments than Automata

Original NieR had better boss fights and camera switching segments than Automata.

Nope, all the boss fights in Nier 1 were just shooting projectiles at a big floaty thing. Simone, Adam, Eve, and Ro-shi/Ko-shi were all better.

Nier 1 had better dialogue, characters, and map design though.

so do the closed doors and apologetic robots actually do something or is this just Taro fucking with us?

Nothing

Bayonetta had better better gameplay than Automata. Original Nier had better story, OST and characters than Automata

Automata is still a masterpiece

>shooting projectiles at a big floaty thing
You mean one boss in Temple? Maybe you should try actually playing the game?

>Simone
Literally the only good boss fight in the game.

>Adam
No
>Eve
Not even half as good as Shadowlord.
>Ro-shi/Ko-shi
Died in 10 seconds. Only good thing about Ko-shi is power outage gimmich.

Debatable.
I loved the magic, the sealed verses you slowly accumulated and the boss finishers but gameplay wise I think Automata does a better job even when half the bosses are balls.
As far as the camera switching goes, Tower segment when you fight Ko-shi and Ro-shi balls was absolutely awesome and since I was somewhat overleveled, crazy fast which added to the whole switching madness even if usually just means you're done with the boss in half a minute.

>Nier 1 had better dialogue, characters, and map design though.

none of Automata's sad excuses for dungeons even came close to Underground Laboratory

The Shadowlord fucking sucked like all the melee combat in the game, you're overrating the fuck out of it.

Not just the Temple boss, everything in the Aerie was like that too.

>hurr the original was better

God damn I fucking hate nostalgiafaggots so fucking much.

Ko-shi doesnt have a power outage gimmick.

Ko-shi/Ro-shi are the tag team boss you fight on your way up the tower at the end of route C.

>Idiot-Savant: I was only pretending to be retarded

is this a japanese only trope or some shit

True. I loved Emil's caves, but the underground facility just took you by surprised. The way camera switched (Automata sadly shows off all its camera gimmicks in the Factory intro), the way military drum rolls begin to play as you enter.
Saito better deliver on his promise of NieR remaster/remake if Automata sells well. As far as I know it did.

Automata put me into a far more depressing funk than Nier did. Something about the overall experience from beginning to end is so fucking bleak. I loved the game, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it to anyone who is already feeling down.

I... can't disagree. That song and that environment was fucking perfect.

>you're overrating the fuck out of it
Much faster attacks. Much more aggressive than Eve. Bullet hell patterns were much more complex.
>everything in the Aerie was like that too
>everything
You mean Hook too? :^)

Nier 1's overall story doesn't pick up until the final castle, and then it ends one hour later. Also endings C and D hardly fucking matter and seem like fanfiction garbage looking back.

Everything before is that is just generic JRPG questing with Emil's Mansion being a bit of a twist, the characters and dialogue are great and make it feel unique but Automata's story was doing way more throughout.

Oh wait, you mean Dies2Fast and WastesMyTime? The Super Rehash Bros. that later form CantAttackBetterRunAroundSoYouCouldHearDialogueBeforeItDies? Yeah, those were a blast, lmao
All jokes aside, all bosses in the Tower are a testament to low budget and harsh deadlines the game suffered from. Same with Emil's final fight.

200k in japan on PS4 and 180k on steam so far.

No idea what the worldwide PS4 numbers are though, but not bad sales so far.

Don't play on Normal then complain about the game being a joke. Even the description laughs at you for choosing that difficulty.

That was first week. It's reaching around 300k in moonland now.

>Even the description laughs at you for choosing that difficulty.
You should know, because you played on it. Otherwise you'd know that Hard and Very Hard don't change the HP and damage you deal to the enemies.
Also
>playing on 1HK mode
>in the game with fucked up hitboxes
There's a reason everyone how played/plays the game on VH exploits the game as much as possible. It's not meant to be played in such way because Platinum ran out of budget and time by the time they decided to balance the game.
Pod progression also suffers from it.

That segment was shit to play, and boring.

I've got to agree with you on bullet hell patterns.

With Platinum behind Automata I was expecting some really crazy bullet hell sequences or at least variety for patterns. The hacking sequences were fun but outside of those it really just felt too weak or too easy.

What if you've gotten so depressed you can no longer feel anything. The only emotion I feel anymore is anger at myself. I don't even feel sad... I just feel empty on the inside.

>NieR
>weak af at the start of the game
>finally get to use cool moves in the middle of the game
>spend last half of the game one-shotting everything
>WOW BALANCE IN THIS GAME IS SHIT

>NieR: Automata
>weak af at the start of the game
>finally get to use cool moves in the middle of the game
>spend last half of the game one-shotting everything
>OMG GOAT FUCK ZELDA

>underground laboratory
>better than become as gods
kek, but I agree that Automata should have had a couple more actual dungeons, the factory is the only real dungeon like area.

Factory is hype, sure, but underground facility was a revelation. It's haunting and mysterious.

Factory would've had a much bigger impact if it was the first part of the game where we get sidescrolling segment.

Nier 1s story actually had flow where its Automata that dosent even start until Route C

Agreed on Nier 1s ending C and D though, ending B is pretty much the game

Both of them are shitty weeb games that you should be ashamed of playing.

How is Automata any different though? It rehashes the same point over and over of robots acting like humans the whole way through. That's pretty standard scifi.

Nier 1's story had a LOT more backstory and new context to apply only to the second playthrough and onward.

I didn't expect much because Platinum's always been trash at their shmup sections they shove in most of their games, and it just continues to deliver the same trash to Automata's flight unit sections.

I still cannot believe how underwhelming the whale section was. All the while I thought they'd do something like go inside it and fight the core, but instead it's basically just a background setpiece that you don't interact with. It was less ambitious than the Tornado sections of Sonic Adventure 1.

>Automata's engine
>all the content from original Nier + things they couldn't put in the game due to budget limitations
>all the lore from Grimoire Nier available in the game like Project Gestalt reports in Automata
>weapon stories
>Junk Heap redesigned
>all the original music plus new tracks from Okabe
>Papa Nier confirmed as the only true canon, no japanese audio even for jap release
Taro pls, we need this

This.
They should have just made you switch between 2B and 9S and make it all 1 route, like they did with the tower and the transition between A and C would flow much much better.

There was an interview about those doors and Yoko Taro says to imagine alot of poop behind those doors. Goddamn Madman

The cast in automata sucks dick in comparison to the first Nier

i dont care. its a shity jap game.

i've been overleveled with +100% attack and a maxed out shockwave since part way through my first run and i still don't gib everything, not to say i don't kill shit extremely quickly, but get off your soap box.

I miss good banter like in the fishing sidequests.

Papa Nier is the superior Nier.
I mean look at this.

Also post more Devola/Popola.

The cast in most games suck compared to the Nier cast.

Try using Bomb pod then.

You don't even have to be overleveled or have good subchips, it just fucking kills everything in Route A and B in practically one use.

Also they shouldn't have included Taunt chips because those break shit even harder.

And hacking is practically an instant kill even on bosses to the point you have to not do anything after each attempt to get the two sentences mid-combat a character or boss might say.

Bomb pod broke the fucking game

>spear longsword combo attack
>string it into Wave pod skill

I agree. That giant shade that attacks the town was way more intense than anything Automata had, probably because there were actual stakes involved.

I'd think we'd be lucky to get a simple Remastered version of the first Nier, but it would be pretty great if we somehow got a Director's Cut of sorts that expands on some of the things they had to cut down on the first time around.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Sauce

Why NieR > NieR: Automata:
>It's older
>Fewer people played it

The gamplay of Nier was immensely worse, and I don't know what sort of delusion someone would have to have to think is good, or even decent, much less better than Automata.

Boss fights are mediocre in both, they are there just for spectacle, not for a challenge or interesting gameplay

The first NieR has more interesting and diverse camera switching segments, I agree. Although it's a trade-off because Automata does it much more often.

The music was better in the first game for sure.

If you actually played it youd know exactly why

Why Automata > Nier:
>I've played it
Everyone that has played both games and isn't a retarded secondary pretty much agrees that the story, characters and dialogue are far superior in the first game.

Thats exactly it

The only time the "machine war" felt like an actual war was when the Resistance camp got attacked and the opening of Route C

>playing nier for the gameplay
yes, the gameplay is improved this time around, but it's nowhere near as deep as other platinum games (however far that goes) are

I was hype for Nier Automata because of Taro, because of the OST and because of a good story and character writing and all those things were better in the first game

Automata was still a great game, however

Story: OG > Automata
Characters: OG > Automata
Dialogue: OG > Automata
OST: OG > Automata
Gameplay: Automata > OG
Levels: OG > Automata
Novel sections: OG > Automata
Bosses: OG > Automata
English dub: OG >>>> Automata
Fishing: OG > Automata
Boar drifting: OG >>>> Automata

>Levels: OG > Automata
The Junk Heap alone proves this wrong.

Junk Heap was fine and it was elevated by The Wretched Automatons, Okabe's greatest masterpiece.

I feel like the people that think Automata is better are the ones that didn't play the first and/or dropped it because the gameplay wasn't great

How come Nier got 6s across the board? Doesn't this seem fishy to you? Its like some bullies who were always mean suddenly turning a new leaf and pretending they always had good taste.

Like those people in school who always bullied you because you like anime, but when they got old they suddenly like anime.

>playing nier for the gameplay
You will find few Nier fans admitting how much it sucked. Also, the score and story is overrated, which is really the only saving graces of this extremely niche game that got exactly the amount of success it deserved.

Give up, OP, you're starting a discussion with mostly underage weebs who haven't even played the original NieR, just bought the automata for the waifu ass, and are ready to throw an autistic fit whenever someone dares criticizing their waifushit.

To put it simply

Story: DoD1 = Nier > Automata > DoD3
Gameplay: Automata > DoD1 (serious) = Nier > 3

So Automata deserved the bigger amount of success because it did all those things the first Nier did worse except for the gameplay or what?

I'm sorry but the combat isn't as bad as some people make it out to be. It's serviceable but it's not terrible.

The OST and the story are definitely not overrated however.

Story: DoD1 = Nier > DoD 3 > Automata
Gameplay: Automata > DoD1 = Nier (serious too) > 3
You almost had it user.

I feel like people that think Nier 1 is better are the ones who don't read any novels but think Japanese video games with bad gameplay are deep

Thinking Automata is better just shows you're easily impressed by a few philosophy references

meanwhile Nier 1 had an actual story

I can deal with it

>NieR 1 had an actual story
Actually no, because 80% of NieR's "actual" story came out in a Japanese-only lore book you faggot

confirmed for not even playing it.

>So Automata deserved the bigger amount of success because it did all those things the first Nier did worse except for the gameplay
Correct.

>It's serviceable but it's not terrible.
The combat is serviceable and there's a small amount of depth and tactics necessary to progress, but combined with the fact that you're killing the same shades again and again makes it mediocre.

>The OST and the story are definitely not overrated however.
To the extent that it convinces anyone the game is good or great for those elements, yes they are.

>nu-Nier fans think Automata is better

Oh and for the record I dont give a fuck about Grimoire Nier

the most interesting parts are the developer interviews, the short stories are extremely hit or miss

Legions wars were legit though

not an argument

Correction, Automata also did the gameplay better. In fact, there's where there's the biggest improvement.

>Nier 1s story actually had flow

>pick up party
>1 hour later everyone is best friends and crying for eachother
>4 fetchquest later everyone is dying and sacrificing themselves and we're meant to care about any of it

Nier's "plot" in concept was great. The execution was horrible. Every plot beat was like you skipped half an anime season in between.

Oh and for the record I don't give a fuck about what you say

I want to be a niche weaboo who says they played a shitty game 7 years ago so I can have the upper-hand against anonymous people on an Indonesian image-board

My tastes are so much superior, don't bother replying, you probably haven't even played the game

>tfw only half read your post and thought you were recommending a game
>actually dissapointed

we have a chance to turn this shitshow into something decent

If you do side-quests then its easier to believe the characters bond over time because of all the banter thats heavily inter-sped. Also the loading screens imply a passage of time.

I actually do get what you mean about it feeling a little skimmy though, but I'd say thats just a consequence of it being a videogame.

>Actually no, because 80% of NieR's "actual" story came out in a Japanese-only lore book you faggot

Either you rushed through the game or you simply don't know shit.

Grimoire Nier is literally fluff and is largely irrelevant to the actual game. It's not like Drakengard 3 where you actually understand full character motivations from fucking DLC

I don't understand why people decided to divide in two camps. Personally I love both games equally. Each does its own thing despite having the same core, and I'm glad they do.
How much time it takes for characters to buddy-up is irrelevant, because the scale of the game is not realistic. In lore it would take about a week for people to reach Seafront from Nier's village, in the game it takes a minute.

NieR's plot was easier to follow, so it did had better flow. Your daughter is sick, you try to find magic verses to heal her, then the daughter gets kidnapped and you go and save her. Basic premise, easier to follow. Now compare it to Automata.
>Boar drifting: OG >>>> Automata
THIS

>Grimoire Nier is literally fluff and is largely irrelevant to the actual game.
Game doesn't explain anything about history of the world and barely touches Project Gestalt and Gestalt relapsation, it also completely ignores the importance of Shadowlord. You need to read Grimoire Nier to understand how much you actually fucked things up.

>I don't understand why people decided to divide in two camps. Personally I love both games equally.
I like Automata too but its pretty much a fact that the storytelling and characterization took a huge dive.

The sort of devices he uses for Automata's story feels like a rehash of what he was trying to do with Drakengard 3 (withheld motivations, straight up filler until midway, among other things), and that itself didnt work so well.

We can call Nier 1's story "simple" but it was goddamn effective in what it tried to do. Less actuall is more.

Oh yea, that is a thing.

To be honest though, I felt like I got the idea of what the game was going for after Ending B. The stuff in Grimoire Nier was only really added detail and I dont think its wholly necessary to get what the game was trying to do.

This is exactly why DoD1 is my favorite, its the least encumbered by loreshit

>I like Automata too but its pretty much a fact that the storytelling and characterization took a huge dive.
Not really. They're less human and don't show as much emotions, but it's a theme of the game. Characters get much more relatable in C/D, so their lack of personality was clearly done on purpose.
Would I enjoy a banter between 042, 9S and 2B while fishing in comfy Seafront-like village full of life? You bet your ass I would. But it's not how Automata's world works.

>Characters get much more relatable in C/D
Not just that, but also thats when the plot actually gains some movement.

And thats the problem, why do we have to wait until we're halfway into the game for the story to actually start? When Nier 1 very neatly avoided this trap?

Saying "thats the point" isnt buying any ground, there's more than enough stories with inhuman and robotic characters that dont waste your time.

>And thats the problem, why do we have to wait until we're halfway into the game for the story to actually start?
Because Taro wanted to try something new and surprising, and he succeeded in doing so.
>When Nier 1 very neatly avoided this trap?
NieR had you replaying the final part of the game 3 times in a row for all endings.

You don't need to know the history of the world though. It's cool to know, but the character you play as is displaced thousands of years from any of those events in a basically post apocalyptic society, and has no idea about any of this stuff.

Once you get the Gestalt records at the end and then do the second playthrough where you're getting a different context for stuff, you put it together pretty easily with what's in the game and let it sink in that yeah, things are even worse than how sketchy it looks.

It's a huge difference from Automata, where character motivations almost don't exist beyond following objectives, and the context of your opposition is bashed into your head. They are the furthest thing from a mystery possible.

It just builds up to the machines not mattering and an 11th hour villain with N2, and all the events that happen are conveniently forgotten or not acknowledged. The Resistance barely cares about Yorha and the Bunker being destroyed entirely, the characters you control don't have known character motivations of what to do without humanity or any future aspirations, even 9S's character development is temporarily dropped when he's interacting with Devola and Popola.

>Because Taro wanted to try something new and surprising, and he succeeded in doing so.
Nah, he already did that in 3 and it was shitcanned for the same reason. Zero's motivations are only barely touched upon and the story is mostly filler until you hit Route C. It's ridiculous.

With Nier 1 the only endings that actually matter are A and B, C/D are literally "do you like Kaine or not"

>Nah, he already did that in 3 and it was shitcanned for the same reason.
3 followed the structure of 1. It doesn't continue from where you left off, it explored different outcomes.

>With Nier 1 the only endings that actually matter are A and B, C/D are literally "do you like Kaine or not"
And C and D are the ones that really matter.

Nier didn't hold out character interactions and development only for the third playthrough though.

It also started you off at the halfway point on the second playthrough and onwards, and on that second playthrough gave you a huge difference in context for what you did. And it didn't scale enemies or introduce new sidequests.

Automata makes you replay the ENTIRE game with Route B, with minimal changes and not much new context added from it.

Eh, the camera switching I'm not sure about. Bosses, absolutely.

You just named all the good bosses in Nier Automata.

3 has the same structure as 1, but they are definitely not the same.

In Drakengard 1 you know what Caim is about from the very first scene and the game flows out from there. Zero is incredibly vague as a character and just plods through different outcomes. You can't really care about what she's doing because you don't even know why beyond "to save the world", which you only learn halfway into the game.

In the end the whole thing tries to bank off her relationship with Mikhail but it feels like the game just wasted your time with taking so long to get to a simple point of "i need dragons to nuke flower". I feel like this is Taro trying to do more nuanced MCs but its just not working.

If the big deal behind your MCs motivations is something you dont want to reveal too early, they arent a good MC. Choose someone else you can use immediately to move the story forward.

And thats exactly why people consider 9S the real main character of Automata, because he's the one with the most growth and movement. 2B is already resigned to her fate and, and A2 is just...there.

Why do the male characters absolutely have to look like gays? Weebs being emasculated is not just a meme apparently

What the fuck shitlord? you can't be straight male in 2017!

The weapon stories canonize both Bro and Papa Nier.

>not being autistic and grinding for all the weapon parts
h-haha, that was f-fun!

>>Papa Nier confirmed as the only true canon, no japanese audio even for jap release

I like Papa Nier more too, but why not also include Bro Nier as an option? You could even have them play differently (Papa is a tank, Bro is more agile and better at magic) and have a few unique side quests for each of them.

The good bosses like simone and adam and koshi and roshi are good in Nier Automata but they feel underdeveloped with their attack patterns. I thought platinumgames knew how to make fantastic memorable bosses. I only got half of that in Nier Automata. After playing Furi, I thought it would only get better with Nier Automata once I eventually played it. To me it feels like Platinum games only did well with making the animations for the combat. Aside from that, they really didn't do great. Maybe cause this is the first long game they have ever worked on.