Squall is dead / Rinoa is Ultimecia

>Squall is dead / Rinoa is Ultimecia
Can these two theories actually fit into one another?

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Dunno. But i enjoy these theories. The development team case already stated that Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia. They never denied the Squall is dead theory though.

I'd like to propose a groundbreaking new hypothesis: OP is a fag.

Squall is dead is the most retarded theory. Plot doesnt make sense hurr rilly ded all along

Ultimecia rinoa is a well thought out theory that paints ultimecia in a much more sympathetic light and gives her much needed depth

So no, they dont fit together, fuck that hurr ded theory.

Lets be honest, ultirinoa was probably the originally intended story but square was to pussy to have a respectable bittersweet story for once and had to shove some romance happy ending bullshit instead

Except is wasn't a happy ending. Thatd why you mever see squall in the final fmv. He was dead.

Sure! Both theories are equally retarded.

>you will never live in Balamb Garden

Why is everyone so ass-blasted over, whats supposed to be, nothing but two fun hypothetical thought experiments?

Squall is dead is a shit theory because it's so universal. You could use it on anything.

Rinoa is Ultimecia I like..but then again, if you think for longer than five minutes about the actual plotline for FFVIII, you realise it's a depressing as hell one. They basically create a stable paradox where the world ends up being completely destroyed.

What? I played this shit when I was 9, so please elaborate.

Because they are retarded.

> The development team case already stated that Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia.

But did they ever say Ultimecia isn't an alternate version of Rinoa, or Ultimecia's origin isn't from Rinoa?

Not everyone, just some people.
People will always be mad about something, pay them no mind.

It doesn't really mater if they confirm it or not. Both of them, regardless of what people think are still a lot more interesting interpretations of the story then the shallow shit we got.

The R=U theory is a proposition of what might happen to Rinoa after
a set of assumptions are made. To be precise, these assumptions are:

1) A sorceress has an extended lifespan, and will live much longer than a
normal human.

2) Rinoa wouldn't give away her powers to some other innocent girl, and would
instead want to keep them herself.

3) Rinoa's mental strength isn't all that good if she's all alone (i.e. without
Squall and co.).

You may notice that assumptions 2 and 3 are really subsets of a greater
assumption, or rather interpretation of the plot: Rinoa's psyche.
Obviously everyone will form an opinion of the main characters' psyches during
the game, and this theory is based on an interpretation of Rinoa which makes
assumptions 2 and 3 perfectly logical and plausible. Assumption 1 is brought
up later, but just accept it now for the sake of understanding the theory.

if Sup Forums lived in balamb garden we would just be the fat nerds who play triple triad all day anyway

>Sorceresses persecuted by SeeD of the future
>Ultimecia, most powerful of them, says FUCK THIS
>uses time magic to become goddess
>has fucked up, and compressed time to a single point, killing basically everyone but her
>oh well, rules world anyway
>and no SeeD around, kind of a win
>SeeD from the past show up
>some bitch called Ellone had time magic too
>they fuck up Ultimecia
>she uses the last of her power to travel back and give her power to Edea
>Edea knows sorceresses are gonna be a problem, sets up SeeD to fight them

and it goes on. And on. And on.

Ultimecia kind of won, by literally destroying the future of the planet, and she becomes the end of the world.

That'd be pretty chill, though.

agreed

>that one guy who only uses the same four rare player cards
>won't tell anyone where he got them
>smells like a caterchipilar
>sneak into his room one night
>refine all his cards into screws
>he drops out of school the next day

>being bullied by Quistis for being such a pathetic slob

>caring what Quistis thinks

She literally spends her nights in the training grounds watching students make out.

>Thatd why you mever see squall in the final fmv.
But you do

The final FMV is supposed to be Squall's afterlife

>Squall's afterlife
>his mother is dead

lel

>You could use it on anything.
Agreed. The it's a dream/dead thing is the most lazy thing you can come up with

>ff7 is a dream, cloud is still in the capsule in the nibel mansion
>mother 3 is a dream of clause when he dies by the trex. Sees himself as a villain because of his weakness and failure to avenge his mother
>2nd part of FE4 is a barbecue fever dream

It's that fucking easy.

None of those games seemed to take a 180 after the first disc though.

I fucking woke my wife up junctioning this kek to my sides

>Rinoa was stated to be the last sorceress after Adel
>Griever GF in general

Square: Lol no, fuck that plot point we wrote.

Also Why the fuck would she waste her time with seeds when she can time travel.

>junctioning this kek to my sides
This is funny

Why thank you, you sexy user! Maybe I c-c-could get your card? For triple triad reasons!

Also keep bumping till someone debates the plot point of Rinoa being the last sorceress + ultimecia griever gf

Sorry fag. I play Tetra Master.

This is why you have no GF to junction!
Nigga, get your seed rank up!

>SquRinoall is Ultideadmecia
there.

>Girlfriend catches me in bed with instructor
>baby how could you?
>"T-the GF made me forget!"
>we all laugh

Ultimecia was a tacked-on and unnecessary element added to pad the game's length. Edea was a good opponent. Ultimecia has the emotional punch of an overworld battle.

What Square did right with FF6 and FF7 was build up to a climactic battle with a single enemy over an extended period of time. Then Ultimecia, LOLNECRON and Yu Yevon...nah.

Rinoa will die eventually, her powers have to go somewhere.
Griever was summoned because it represents the strongest being in Squall's mind, you can thank the translation for this not being clear in English.

>Necron

to be fair, if FF3 had been released and in English at the time Necron would make more sense

Lana Rain

And regardless of Squall being dead or not, that thing is certainly the weirdest scene in all of FF.

>tfw no GF

>cue flare that she just drew while lying about being in the bathroom
>only does 300 hp damage cause chicks cannot into junction system and she skipped the tutorial at class
>laugh track

That is no excuse; each FF to that point was to be taken independently. Necron was a cheap cop-out; Kuja was the better villain.

But you get a final showdown with Kuja. Necron is just a little bonus fight against nihilism.

never hear that said about Chaos, Cloud of Darkness, Zeromus or Orphan

Bonus? Eh, I don't think so. It was tedium.

>tfw your favorite FF is also the only one with interesting fan teories

VIII best FF.

I don't know how you could think Squall is Dead is interesting, it's lazy as fuck and based off of one of the worst kinds of twists in media. R=U is just categorically wrong in every way.

I just bought FF8 a while ago and still haven't played it. Thinking of pulling the trigger. What should I expect going in?

Ultimecia was a thing since even before the game began, but I guess some people really need all the plot spoonfed to them.

Squall is dead is the stupidest theory ever because that leaves no explanation for why he has flashbacks on disc 1 and disc 2.

You are my favorite seed cadet!

I loved the game and the fact that you could have all the final weapons before the Seed mission

>curb stomping that fucking metal crab for the first time for ap

>lazy
>has its own website filled with info to back it up

FF6 is Terra coming to grips with her humanity. Each member of the party represents part of her human half the slave crown suppresses

All FF protagonists die near the beginning of their game

FFXIV takes place on the same world as FFV before the events of the Dawn Warriors

and there's Dissidia

Wait, go on about ff3 and necron

I thought you could only get Quistis', where do you get the Adamantine for Lionheart?

Necron is the Cloud of Darkness. The destruction of the crystal called the primordial darkness to destroy and remake the world so balance would be achieved again

without cheating, the earliest you can get an Adamantite is refining the Brothers card

You will probably hate all the characters at first. Give them time to grow on you, especially Squall. Pay attention to the draw and junction system tutorials. And most importantly, if you bought the PC version, get the Roses and Wine patch here:

forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13715.0

To replace the godawful midis with the PSX OST.

Card Mod
Play the card game for a bit (look up exact location for certain rare cards in balamb garden cause I cannot remember off hand). Takes about 4 hours to do it (getting card mod, being comfy in the garden and playing people)

Ty user

>you now want to dick the shit out of necron cause there's a tight evil vagina somewhere on it

Pointing out that the world contains weird things does not "back up" that you think it's a dream world.

>destroy and remake the world
Necron just wants to destroy, not remake. He thinks that because all life will eventually desire death, life isn't worth allowing to exist. Fun fact, he doesn't actually have a name in Japanese, he just calls himself 永遠の闇 (Eternal Darkness)

>Ultimecia rinoa is a well thought out theory that paints ultimecia in a much more sympathetic light and gives her much needed depth
But that's wrong. R=U only serves the make Ultimecia less sympathetic.
The whole point of the game's theme of "love" as it is drawing parallels between Rinoa and Ultimecia is that Ultimecia was unable to find her "knight".

Thanks to the time loop, everybody knew Ultimecia was coming and wanted her dead before she was even born. She took up the mantle of evil ultimate witch because she was forced into it.
Rinoa, lucky in life enough to have relationships and having met Squall, was afraid of being alone. Thanks to Squall, she got her knight, found love and avoided persecution.
Ultimecia, never having had a chance, wanted to be absolutely alone since the presence of others was only ever a negative to her. Ultimecia never found love and scorned the world.

They are opposing sides of the same coin, both victims of a witch hunt, but the key difference was that one found love, the other only received hatred.

isn't that what CoD wanted? To the point that her dark warriors actually helped you when they realized what was up?

I don't remember. I'm replaying FF3 right now actually.

R turns into U after Squall dies

>Yu Yevon
Not even a proper boss fight and not really an asspull since the point of the mission always was finding a way to fight Sin in an alternative way.
Final boss is of course Braska's Final Aeon, since you can't even die against Yu Yevon until you don't pietrify your whole party

Becaues in a lot of cases and in the context of the thread, the theory is meant to be something that is legitimate and was thought out by the developers.

Well, more like Necron, Cloud of Darkness and Neo Exdeath are three different incarnations of the Void in general. It's a recurring pattern in the franchise: Mess with the Crystals, the Void awakens and tries to destroy everything. It is sort of the multiverse's janitor.

Just look at Necron's mission statement. He is literally the Void and an awesome reference to one of the most important shared elements of the franchise, but it requires you to have played III or at least II before to understand it.

>>FFXIV takes place on the same world as FFV before the events of the Dawn Warriors
I was expecting XII to be more connected to XIV but what's the FFV/FFXIV theory?

Its a dumb theory by a whack job, ie is what I would go with. Ultimetica is probably just some girl who got given her power the same way all the witches get it.
Its not passed down.

It's clear even in English, assuming you Scan the thing.

The point is to return the world to the Void (which would also end up destroying said world but that's irrelevant to it). The crystals being fucked with being a trigger for a Void entity (ie. Necron, Cloud of Darkness, Neo-Exdeath) to come and try to drag a world back there.

The Dark Warriors did not belong to her, they were from a counterpart world where instead of having to fight Cloud of Darkness as their Void entity, they were up against something called Flood of Light. They helped out because CoD was using their crystals to be more powerful, so the LWs needed all the help they could get.

I've been wondering one thing, If Ellone/Edea knew Ultimecia was coming, why the hell didn't they better prepare so seed wouldn't get their shit pushed in at the castle or even have counter measures in place for being gimped. (Locking abilities and such). It's been years so I may be off.

Also for Edea to get her powers, she had to have known that Ultimecia was bound to lose.

Also why didn't Ultimecia assemble her own group of teenaged orphans with attitude? (and apocalypse junctioned)

>Also for Edea to get her powers, she had to have known that Ultimecia was bound to lose.
I don't quite think Edea knew the sorceress that she gained her powers from was Ultimecia, unless I'm mistaken and misremembering the ending.

Sounds like something Kojimafags would come up with.

hahahahahaha epic Sup Forumsrother xD

wait what the fuck? do you ahve links for all these?

FFX is in the same universe as FFVII is the best and hinted to be actually canon.

>there are no video games in Balamb Garden.

God forbid the last boss of an RPG get some screentime and recognition before you fight them.

The theory says he's only dead after getting impaled with an icicle. The thing about fucking around with time is that you can excuse anything by saying it's a different timeline. The Rinoa is Ultimecia theory wouldn't exist without Squall is dead theory since his death was supposed to be what triggered messing with time and shit.

Of course none of these theories are legit since FF games are what you see is what you get, but I remember reading stuff that made it make sense. Interesting to speculate if nothing else.

>Squall is dead
>this game that is already fiction is DOUBLE FICTION starting with disc 2 but it's never addressed by the writing
Great theory you got there.

>Rinoa is Ultimecia
>Also she has inexplicable and unmentioned super-amnesia (despite nothing suggesting that she has a GF junctioned to herself, she only creates Griever in the final battle) that prevents her from recognising her own body when she possesses it or having any interest in Squall
Great theory you got there.