CONTINUED

Jason Ross
Jason Ross

CONTINUED /v/thread/387379901#p387379901

THIS IS BAD GAME DESIGN AND Sup Forums WILL DEFEND IT

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMXJ3AlL7A
https://cdn.bethsoft.com/bethsoft.com/manuals/Skyrim/skyrimle_pc_manual-ENUS.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMXJ3AlL7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7us2lmrNS1k
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arvel%27s_Journal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhwddNQSWQ
https://youtu.be/zvmdT-Sl7zw?t=22m1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmgXsutPTk4
Mason Ward
Mason Ward

The ultimate casual filter.

Lucas Butler
Lucas Butler

not just looking at the claw in the inventory
Eyelets when will they learn

Connor Cruz
Connor Cruz

If you used a PC, then I can understand not getting this.

Console players have no excuse

Mason Morales
Mason Morales

seriously the whole bethesda defender argument

Charles Cook
Charles Cook

Reposting /v/thread/387379901#p387391657 since he brought up a decent point

This is how the claw is presented to you when it is looted from Arvel the Swift's body, and here is the source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMXJ3AlL7A [Embed]
a playthrough dated the day after the game came out. This is the way the claw is presented to you in the menus, and assuming that you didn't know about the rotate mechanic, this is the default position the claw is displayed in, since the camera would not have been adjusted, since if it was, you would have to have done it, and you would therefore know about the rotate mechanic. The three symbols are very pronounced in this position.

Jack Carter
Jack Carter

Add something along the lines of their mom figuring it out instantly even tho it's her first video game

Joshua Long
Joshua Long

Its actually good game design, but they didnt give any context that you would need to inspect the claw.

Game just needed an establishing line

Jonathan Hall
Jonathan Hall

It's in the note you get from the spider snack.

Austin Brooks
Austin Brooks

didn't give context to inspect
That's the part that's bad design.

Jacob White
Jacob White

Its mentioned no where in the manual that you can inspect items.

Anthony Lopez
Anthony Lopez

https://cdn.bethsoft.com/bethsoft.com/manuals/Skyrim/skyrimle_pc_manual-ENUS.pdf

Josiah Cooper
Josiah Cooper

Reposting my response to
/v/thread/387379901#p387391243
you only see that it's obvious the markings were on the claw is because you've already completed the puzzle
This is how the claw is presented to you when it is looted from Arvel the Swift's body, and here is the source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMXJ3AlL7A [Embed]
a playthrough dated the day after the game came out. This is the way the claw is presented to you in the menus, and assuming that you didn't know about the rotate mechanic, this will be the default position the claw is displayed in, since the camera would not have been adjusted. If it was, you would have to have done it, and you would therefore know that items can be rotated. The three symbols are very pronounced in this position. There are obvious symbols on the claw which beg to be investigated further. Here's where the logic of "let's try to rotate the camera so that I can get a better view" comes in.

The same guy used this logic to figure out the puzzle in around 20 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7us2lmrNS1k

Noah Hill
Noah Hill

Not gonna lie, I looked up the answer from a walkthrough

Justin Allen
Justin Allen

The same guy used this logic to figure out the puzzle in around 20 seconds.
he says right there that there was an intermission while he was looking for a solution, and then eventually figured it out and resumed the recording
it was clearly more than 20 seconds

Jacob Clark
Jacob Clark

and then he even starts pressing the wrong buttons to try to rotate again, since there isn't a legend on the screen showing how to rotate

Joshua Roberts
Joshua Roberts

no timestamp
open video, 13 minutes
lol

Zachary Nguyen
Zachary Nguyen

activate outer
activate middle
activate inner
activate outer
activate middle
activate inner
open door
You'll cowards don't even speedrun

Grayson Jenkins
Grayson Jenkins

game in inventory is part of a puzzle or part of its solution
the game needs to tell me to inspect it
You know what other games did this, not telling you to inspect an item you obviously have to inspect?
Syberia.
CSI games
Countelss of games similar to Myst and the likes
Hidden Objects game featuring any sort of inventory with puzzles
Any fucking game featuring an inventory and items you have to use in specific puzzles.
Yet no one ever had issues with this, or when they had, it's part of the GOOD gameplay, cause you know, puzzles require YOU to figure out things, not being told to you.

Evan Gutierrez
Evan Gutierrez

It's anti-Bethesda shitposting's new fad now that they can't claim Fallout 4 was a failure.

Oliver Evans
Oliver Evans

WAIT A MINUTE, THAT CLAW

Josiah Lopez
Josiah Lopez

Bethesda almost deserves it though.. they sure aren't perfect. I really enjoy skyrim though.

Connor Sullivan
Connor Sullivan

Syberia tells you in two ways how to inspect an item if you count the manual.
The word 'inspect' probably isn't anywhere in vanilla Skyrim.

Oliver Harris
Oliver Harris

You will need to look at the screen to play this video game

Adrian Sanchez
Adrian Sanchez

but why is it okay, accepted, dismissed, that there isn't a simple legend on the menu, along with "equip" and "drop" for "inspect"?

why is the lack of it a pro, and homage to old games, an innovative but intuitive solution, a real brain teaser?

Jonathan Anderson
Jonathan Anderson

you will need to strawman in order to have a chance at debating ITT

Christian Rogers
Christian Rogers

why is the lack of it a pro, and homage to old games, an innovative but intuitive solution, a real brain teaser?
Because it exposes brainlets.

Gavin Stewart
Gavin Stewart

Those are puzzle/adventure games designed around inspecting everything. Skyrim is an action RPG. Apples and oranges.

Elijah Roberts
Elijah Roberts

This was absurd

John Bennett
John Bennett

it took him more than 2 seconds to consider you might be able to look at the fucking claw.

Cooper Evans
Cooper Evans

people are saying that this wasn't explained
actually wtf, I thought this was bad game design because you expected it and it did nothing other than attempt to justify the needless ability to rotate every item in your inventory. Also it got old very fast.

Logan Stewart
Logan Stewart

Cool game. Dunno what to do here tho.
Guess I'll go into my inventory and see if I can inspect my items and rotate them despite there being no menu prompt

Christian Fisher
Christian Fisher

The only reason I never found out you could rotate inspect Items is because the UI was so fucking terrible, I didn't want to leave it open longer than a few seconds. Fucking console optimized shit.

Eli Flores
Eli Flores

It was obvious to anyone with a brain to look at the claw that is obviously the key for the lock and you faggots should be applauding Bethesda for not hand holding the player through such a simple puzzle by having the game just outright tell you the solution.

Nathan Wilson
Nathan Wilson

What was the difference?

Robert Peterson
Robert Peterson

Giving that no one reads the manual, skips tutorials or long explanations, every command in the game should be a mystery regardless of if it is explained or not.
Point is not if it's ok or not for "inspect" to be there, rather that it should be obvious you can inspect an item that you're supposed to use in a puzzle if the use for that item is not immediately obvious.

If in an RPG featuring no jump button you find a small "platforming" section which does require to jump, won't you somehow try to jump?
Or you need to be told that too?
It's not the game genre, is the context, which in this case is a fucking puzzle element to use in a fucking puzzle, no need to tel you to inspect the item when the context makes it obvious you should at least try to.

Tyler Flores
Tyler Flores

go up to door
navi prompts you about needing to find a key

Levi Evans
Levi Evans

So does m1 rotate or equip?

Liam Mitchell
Liam Mitchell

both!

Bentley Davis
Bentley Davis

Point is not if it's ok or not for "inspect" to be there, rather that it should be obvious you can inspect an item that you're supposed to use in a puzzle if the use for that item is not immediately obvious.
Arvel's notes literally say that the claw is the key to the puzzle, brainlets are just too stupid to read things in an RPG.

Oliver Smith
Oliver Smith

Character specifically mentions that the Claw works with some kind of door
Shortly afterwards find a door with markings on it and a claw shaped hole

Isaac Richardson
Isaac Richardson

tfw you started researching and exploring local murals and carvings on the walls in search for clue
tfw half an hour later you see thread on Sup Forums with the clue to rotate the claw
man that was so fucking shit

Eli Watson
Eli Watson

Dude there's only like 3 symbols per ring. If you were retarded enough to not figure out you were supposed to look at the claw AND even more retarded to not just consult a guide, or forum, or fucking ask here after you gave up in a fit of retardation then there were only 27 possible combinations. I'll grant you the animation is slow as shit so if you got it right on the very last guess it could probably take up to 15-20minutes or so but even still, you could brute force your way through this as an absolute last resort. It still would require you to be exceptionally retarded but I guess you can't help how you're born.

Hunter Anderson
Hunter Anderson

I know, my point is it doesn't matter if it's told you or not, it's an object required in a puzzle and its use is not immediately obvious, logic tells you to inspect you, regardless of the info the game gives or doesn't give.

Brandon Hernandez
Brandon Hernandez

don't read the journal of the guy you take the claw from
Modern """gamers""" in a nutshell.

Justin Ortiz
Justin Ortiz

If it's a RPG where jumping has never been used or explained, I'd assume I'd need to make bridges or solve some plot flag so I can walk over the areas I need to get past.
To me that's just explaining that the claw is a literal key that you hold in the palm of your hand, nothing about it having a code on it.

Jonathan Ramirez
Jonathan Ramirez

To me that's just explaining that the claw is a literal key that you hold in the palm of your hand, nothing about it having a code on it.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arvel%27s_Journal
My fingers are trembling. The Golden Claw is finally in my hands, and with it, the power of the ancient Nordic heroes. That fool Lucan Valerius had no idea that his favorite store decoration was actually the key to Bleak Falls Barrow.
Now I just need to get to the Hall of Stories and unlock the door. The legend says there is a test that the Nords put in place to keep the unworthy away, but that "When you have the golden claw, the solution is in the palm of your hands."
You are literally sub 100 IQ if you read that and didn't think to inspect the claw.

Dominic Jones
Dominic Jones

I did end up brute forcing it, I had no idea how to solve this puzzle until a year later.
It's babby's first puzzle yet I couldn't figure it out because Todd decided that a fucking menu prompt would take up too much screen or something.

Justin Wilson
Justin Wilson

whether or not someone was able to solve the puzzle is not the question

the question is, what is the puzzle
the puzzle is to read the journal to figure out you need to inspect the claw to open a combination door
or
the puzzle is to figure out how to rotate the claw

if it's not the latter, then why is the solution to that problem being praised for not being a documented feature of the menu, while every other mechanic is detailed

Sebastian Thompson
Sebastian Thompson

The annotation was because he apparently left the dungeon without the Dragonstone and had to go back for it. Besides, he straight up says
pretty basic puzzle. Took me a minute, but I did start looking around and I was like, that looking at the claw) seemed like the most logical thing to do
Plus, when he gets to the claw, it literally takes him 10 seconds, 0:13-0:23, to figure out how to rotate it. Furthermore, if you look at his previous videos, there are a bunch of people who say that this guy is straight up retarded at RPGs, didn't know how to level up, and skipped all the good loot. This in addition to forgetting to get the item he came for in the first place. If a guy like that could figure out that the claw could be rotated in only 10 seconds, I don't see why figuring it out on your own is so difficult.
12:38-12:40

Zachary Rogers
Zachary Rogers

If it's a RPG where jumping has never been used or explained, I'd assume I'd need to make bridges or solve some plot flag so I can walk over the areas I need to get past.
lenghty description/explanation of how the claw is the "key" to the puzzle somehow means the claw is a literal key
You are just retarded...if it's a puzzle and it has a key, it's obvious the key is not literal, otherwise it wouldn't be a puzzle but just a locked mechanism needing a key.

Gabriel Bell
Gabriel Bell

i still can't believe there are people alive RIGHT NOW that didn't get this immediately, i didn't even get that it was a puzzle since it was so easy

Jacob Nguyen
Jacob Nguyen

I don't see why figuring it out on your own is so difficult.
but why is rotating the claw what has to be figured out, rather than figuring out to look at the claw

Michael Ward
Michael Ward

didn't think to inspect the claw.
Hey let me just read the developer's mind to know that there is an undocumented feature that is used only for this specific puzzle and will do nothing but waste time every time one of these doors appears.

Grayson Rogers
Grayson Rogers

Fucking this.
People are too stupid to actually read the fucking clues the game gives you and don't have every single answer to every puzzle ham-fistedly shoved into their face then complain that it's "Bad Game Design".

Worst part is that I see people complaining on here about games hand holding you and just outright giving you answers (in fact people complain about this with Skyrim specifically because of the quest markers, constantly mewling for a return of the detailed journal and removal of quest markers from Morrowind). Then when a puzzle that actually requires them to read stuff in the game and solve a puzzle without just being outright told the answer they fucking bitch about it being too hard.

These people don't want the quest markers removed in favour of detailed written directions, they'd just get lost constantly then complain that it was bad game design.

Justin Brooks
Justin Brooks

I had REmake to thank for examining items in detail, so this was like second nature for me.

Lincoln Morris
Lincoln Morris

Because if it was told to you that items can be rotated but this function is completely useless except for ONE item, telling you so would be giving you the solution.

Austin Cook
Austin Cook

no button prompt to inspect items

Wyatt Cook
Wyatt Cook

you reach a door with an engraving of a quest item given to you by an NPC
the engraving appears to have slots to insert said quest item thus implying the quest item acts as a sort of key
insert the quest item does not open the door
notice strange runes above door
notice the runes are movable
doesn't proceed to think the runes are part of the lock and need to be arranged in the proper manner
further fails to consider looking at the fucking quest item to see if it bears any clues to unlocking the door

RPG 101

People like you are why video games become casualized.

Juan Robinson
Juan Robinson

gameplay documented in-universe with clues
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY DIDN'T A VOICED CHARACTER TELL ME THIS DIRECTLY?
I bet BotW was fun for you.

Charles Ortiz
Charles Ortiz

but isn't the book what is telling you the solution?
why is the undocumented button press coming into play?

Logan Moore
Logan Moore

anons critiquing game for not introducing rotate mechanic in any way
hand holding

No one is bitching about the puzzle itself, retard.

Nicholas Morris
Nicholas Morris

Brainlet genocide when?

Carson Anderson
Carson Anderson

pretty sure you have to actually mouse over and drag the thing around instead of just moving one of the two sticks you have

Thomas Jackson
Thomas Jackson

What retard puts the code for a door on the key? If you're going to do that, don't have the code in the first place.

Nicholas Hernandez
Nicholas Hernandez

This is Bethesda we're talking about here

Isaiah Bell
Isaiah Bell

game has menu prompt for rotating/teaches you how in the first 5 mins of the game
this somehow ruins puzzles later on in the game
k

Nolan Carter
Nolan Carter

the funny thing is you only have to move each ring twice
there's no complexity at all

Ethan Rodriguez
Ethan Rodriguez

you're missing the point
how is this menu, with "equip" and "drop" button prompts for available actions on the item, somehow considered grander, less casual, truly hardcore, for maximum fans of the genre, no posers allowed, ultimate rpg experience, somehow considered better to you, for lacking "[M1] Inspect item"

Charles Gomez
Charles Gomez

Because literally anyone with common sense would try to see if there was a way to inspect the claw further to see the symbols better. Like I said, in the default camera angle the game positions the claw in, there are very obviously symbols there. The fact that there are three of them is also very obvious. The fact that the door also has three symbols is also very obvious. The fact that from that camera angle, you can make out animal symbols, symbols which are also on the door, is very obvious. So therefore, it is logical to say that "Let's try to look at these symbols in greater detail. Can I do that?" And someone who multiple people said is retarded at Skyrim, doesn't know how to level up, and did not pick up the item he came to the dungeon for even though he's playing with quest markers, answered that question in 10 seconds.

Robert Brown
Robert Brown

Wh-what? Am I really reading this tripe right? Have you fuckers ever played RPG games with actual puzzles and problem solving? Was Skyrim your first RPG? You sincerely believe rotating an object to find the answer like a tabloid's upsidedown answers to last week's crossword puzzle is clever game design? Then do it again times 30? You chuckelfucks read too much into this schlock.

Daniel Lopez
Daniel Lopez

You really need the game to explain that you can rotate items? Fucking seriously?

Alright, on all the loading screens did when the model popped up did you not ever touch it with your mouse and realize you could rotate it? If you did then why is it such a leap to assume you could rotate items in the inventory screen?

Julian Cruz
Julian Cruz

if anyone with common sense would try to see if there was a way to inspect the claw, then why are you offended by the idea of it saying what button on the menu is what allows you to inspect the claw?

Leo Allen
Leo Allen

Was Skyrim your first RPG?
No, they're true RPG oldfags who started with Oblivion! ;^)

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

in the default camera angle the game positions the claw in, there are very obviously symbols there
Unless, of course, you grab the item in 1/4 of a second and don't even look at it because who gives a fuck what it looks like.

Lincoln Evans
Lincoln Evans

play a new game for first time
immediately try everything I've learned from ever past game
yeah it's not like the 6 previous games didn't have this and whatnot.

Ayden Powell
Ayden Powell

I'm not sure what you're talking about; you've probably got me mixed up with another user. I was disputing the claim that I only knew the markings were obvious because I completed the puzzle already by providing the perspective of someone who didn't, and noting that the markings were obvious because the default camera positioning of the claw makes it clear that there are markings on the claw.

Jayden Turner
Jayden Turner

I'm not saying it's hard. I'm saying it's pointless and stupid.

Leo Murphy
Leo Murphy

You could easily bruteforce it in a couple seconds, though. What does it matter if it was done before or not in previous games? It's functionally insipid.

Christopher Cooper
Christopher Cooper

the book is giving you clues about what item to use, not the solution.
finding out how that item is used(rotating it) is the solution.
Both parts are portion of the puzzle.

it does if rotating items is only useful on ONE item in a puzzle and rotating it is the solution to the puzzle, it's literally giving you the solution

Carter Ross
Carter Ross

It's even more retarded than you think it is. They aren't even complaining about the puzzle, they're complaining because they couldn't figure out how to rotate an item on the inventory screen. Fucking unbelievable.

We're dealing with the kinds of people who need the game to tell them WASD moves your character.

Evan Wilson
Evan Wilson

We're dealing with the kinds of people who need the game to tell them WASD moves your character.
But it has to be spoken by a character, because fuck reading. Reading is for gays.

They are the reason Fallout 4 has a voiced protagonist.

Jayden Watson
Jayden Watson

You have to click and drag so no
you can turn your character so why is it such a leap to assume you can't turn objects?
That's how shit your logic is.

Ethan James
Ethan James

wah muh path finders
fuckin hand holding

Jeremiah Cruz
Jeremiah Cruz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhwddNQSWQ

Cooper Murphy
Cooper Murphy

Alright, on all the loading screens did when the model popped up did you not ever touch it with your mouse and realize you could rotate it?
why would you just randomly press buttons during a loading screen?
just be patient while the game loads

actually i believe redguard did let you rotate items

finding out how that item is used(rotating it) is the solution.
you considering pressing random buttons in a menu till something that isn't listed happens to be a good puzzle?
perhaps we should have randomly pressed scroll lock to finish a puzzle

Kayden Gutierrez
Kayden Gutierrez

can*
Fuck it, better just kms

Henry Murphy
Henry Murphy

Yes, how dare these people not know how to do something that is never used for 99.99% of the game and is documented in no way for a nonsensical puzzle.

Hunter Bell
Hunter Bell

why would you just randomly press buttons during a loading screen?
just be patient while the game loads
Why would you randomly move right stick on a controller in the inventory?
Just be patient and use the left one.

Chase White
Chase White

Why would you randomly move right stick on a controller in the inventory?
i have no idea, why?

Christopher Flores
Christopher Flores

I seriously didnt know the answer was on the claw until this thread. I always just tried random combos, assuming that two symbols wouldnt repeat. It takes about 60 seconds to solve this way if you are unlucky, i always thought that was the puzzle, it never even bothered me.

Justin Hughes
Justin Hughes

first time playing Skyrim
game teaches me how to rotate items
get to this puzzle
"oh this is the only time in this game where this mechanic will ever be useful"
k

I'm sure you knew that the physic log kill on the Scamp in Oblivion was the only time that was gonna be used too

Adrian Sanders
Adrian Sanders

i always thought that was the puzzle, it never even bothered me.
Then you're probably not a butthurt Obsidiot still shitposting about Bethesda seven years after New Vegas came out.

Lincoln Martinez
Lincoln Martinez

The camera angle is always the same until you change it. Two videos later, when he interacts with the door, the claw is in the same camera position as it was when he first found it. If you didn't look at the item before, you will now, especially since the journal told you the claw was relevant to the door puzzle, and you have nothing else concrete to work with. The symbols are still obviously there, and in fact, the lighting of the door room seems to make them even more pronounced. I even checked the resolution of both videos to see if they were different, and the answer was no, they were both at 480p.

Plus, it's a strange item, and a quest item to boot. Why would you not look at it?

Benjamin Kelly
Benjamin Kelly

cant find stones for a spin the stones password
just try it in a logical fashion with brute force
(1111, 1112,1113 etc)

Chase Johnson
Chase Johnson

Why would you not intuitively assume you could rotate 3d items in your inventory? I mean they put them right there so you can look at their graphics, you mean to tell me you assume they will only allow you to view them from one angle? How are people this dumb?

Wyatt Rivera
Wyatt Rivera

It's good that it was designed in a way that you could sort of make out symbols. It was bad that there was nothing on the menu that told you how to look at the item in greater detail.

Brody Cruz
Brody Cruz

I mean they put them right there so you can look at their graphics
considering the track record, could it not have been that they put them right there because they didn't want to make hand painted icons for them again?

Ryan Allen
Ryan Allen

There's a journal you get ON THE BODY of the guy you get the key from. It says "the answer is in the palm of your hand"

If you can't solve a riddle so fucking simple you are a mega casual and should stick to candy crush

Logan Hall
Logan Hall

Plus, it's a strange item, and a quest item to boot. Why would you not look at it?
No voice in your ear telling you to rotate the item to solve the "puzzle." Reading is for fags.

David Rogers
David Rogers

Reading is for fags.
but there better not be any damn words to read in the menus, that should be PURE random button mashing, boy howdy

Hudson Ward
Hudson Ward

Not to mention that you can also rotate items in the loading screens when there is literally nothing better for you to do and one of the loading screens has a hint that actually does specifically say that you can rotate items in your inventory to look at them.

Nathaniel Adams
Nathaniel Adams

I really dont like bethesda games, the oversaturation of loot ruins it for me. Its like, i could be playing a cool rpg, but instead im playing a hobo dumpster diving simulator.

Anthony Williams
Anthony Williams

I know the claw is interacting with the door when the game shows it going into the holes and turning. I have no reason to look at it in my inventory at that point as the claw is clearly not the problem, the rings are. So I looked around the area for the answer to the rings, because it is retarded to think the code would be stamped on the claw, making the code useless.
Plus, it's a strange item, and a quest item to boot. Why would you not look at it?
Because I don't care about how it looks, just if it works or how much I can sell it for.

Bentley Thomas
Bentley Thomas

Fallout 4 is literally the only one where you need to pick up junk, and even then it's only really if you want to engage in the settlement minigame thing. So many people assume that because each knife and fork and plate etc. is its own object you should still be playing it like an old-school RPG where you just hoover up everything in case you need it later.

Owen James
Owen James

I actually like that you can loot everything. It's realistic, you kill some asshole so of course you can take his clothes and weapons, they didn't just suddenly vanish into the ether when he died.

Leo Clark
Leo Clark

Fucking casuals! They need their hand held with the most trivial bullshit. Walking tutorials, shooting tutorials. WAIT A MINUTE THAT CARD!
Where does it say I can rotate items in the inventory? Just some vague as fuck journal entry? How was I supposed to solve this? IT'S TOO VAGUE THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO WOW

Liam Thomas
Liam Thomas

don't play a lot of rpg's
skyrim was my first rpg
didn't know how to into rpg's
I looked up a guide when I couldn't figure it out and I felt so stupid afterwards

Gabriel Martin
Gabriel Martin

how to spot the losing argument
poster count doesn't increase

Leo Anderson
Leo Anderson

God, please tell me there's a DSP video where he solves this in 10 seconds just to blow out the assholes of these brainlets.

Nathan Morales
Nathan Morales

This is on the level of people complaining that a game didnt tell you to use left stick to move.

Josiah Smith
Josiah Smith

how rekt do you have to be to keep replying to nobody

Hudson Watson
Hudson Watson

I'm not certain, you're still giving me (You)s.

Brandon White
Brandon White

the game does, in fact, tell you how to move
and jump, and open the menu, and equip items, and consume potions
but looking at items is a step too far

ah yes, the famous (you) upvotes
enjoy them

Nathaniel Harris
Nathaniel Harris

Moving
Necessary to do anything in almost every game
Rotating objects in inventory
Usually only in the game so the 3D modelers can show how pretty their items look.

Sebastian Lewis
Sebastian Lewis

One could almost say it was never an argument to begin with.

Colton Anderson
Colton Anderson

And here I was thinking the big "PRESS SQUARE TO RELOAD" prompts in every CoD game that you can't fucking disable were there just o piss me off. It turns out there actually are people that wont think to press the reload button after shooting their gun without an onscreen prompt.

Jeremiah Peterson
Jeremiah Peterson

yeah i mean it says it right on the tin
bethesda game? of course it's bad design, there isn't a debate

Jaxon Richardson
Jaxon Richardson

Isn't there quite literally an "inspect item" button on the inventory UI?

The one that brings you to an empty screen where it zooms in on the item and lets you rotate it?

Isn't the claw's default position showing it's palm (and thus, the solution) anyways?

Jaxson Johnson
Jaxson Johnson

Todds Skyrim pitch
"Skyrim will have puzzles like this so this item rotation feature is necessary!!"
Literally the only thing in the game that needs item rotation
Literally one of 2 kinds of door opening "puzzles" in the game

All those features that were removed from the previous games were totally worth it for this!

Charles Phillips
Charles Phillips

Isn't there quite literally an "inspect item" button on the inventory UI?
no, there isn't, you need to press buttons randomly in order to access the feature

Isn't the claw's default position showing it's palm (and thus, the solution) anyways?
yes

Andrew Thomas
Andrew Thomas

there's also the fact that those are easy as shit to just guess
It's usually just one rotation per ring, or maybe two

Chase Sanchez
Chase Sanchez

ITT: idiots desperately try to defend the fact that they were too stupid to try rotating the item

When even the millions of normie casuals who bought the game had no issue with it "DUDE skyrim is the best game ever!"

Evan Murphy
Evan Murphy

Its not that i hoover up everything, its just the constant minigame of deciding what to leave and what to take is mentally exhausting, or looking in every little corner of every empty building so you dont miss anything important.

Bethesda games are just these intricately crafted, detailed worlds, that i just cannot force myself to give a shit about. Something just seems off about their games, i cant quite put my finger on it.

Brayden Cox
Brayden Cox

i think his issue is more with the fact that the game throws tons of "loot" at you that is garbage because of skyrims horrible level scaling and loot lists.

Carter Rivera
Carter Rivera

Literally one of 2 kinds of door opening "puzzles" in the game
looks like someone didnt explore too much :^)

Brayden Ortiz
Brayden Ortiz

So you don't even need to rotate the item to solve the puzzle. And this thread is entirely pointless?

Jace Thomas
Jace Thomas

Bethesda games are just these intricately crafted, detailed worlds, that i just cannot force myself to give a shit about. Something just seems off about their games, i cant quite put my finger on it.
The environments are intricately crafted but the characters and storylines are almost always painted with broad stroked that are shitty.

Also you can get mods that give you a price to weight ratio on the loot so you're not lugging around a 20 pound hunk of crap that will sell for 5 gold.

The point of this thread is to expose idiots who refuse to read notes in RPGs.

Nathaniel Myers
Nathaniel Myers

This map.

Logan Rodriguez
Logan Rodriguez

You don't need to rotate it though. You can clearly see all 3 symbols from it's default inventory position.

Multiple screenshots have already been posted in this very thread, thus BTFO'ing all the fucking morons who didn't understand one of the most casual puzzles ever made

You guys are the reason why Fallout 4 was even MORE dumbed down than skyrim

Easton Anderson
Easton Anderson

get golden claw
get journal
the KEY is in the PALM of your hand
get to door see key hole
look at palm of claw
open door
???? where do the problems come up?

Alexander Morris
Alexander Morris

it is retarded to think the code would be stamped on the claw
In terms of logic, yes. In terms of the game, no, since the journal told you that once you have the golden claw, the answer to the door puzzle would be in the palm of your hands. Ergo, the answer to the door puzzle is in your possession. And what's the only thing in your possession that has to do with the door? The claw. In your scenario, you know this because you had already used the claw to interact with the door. Therefore, the claw might give clues as to what the answer to the door puzzle is. That's when you go into your inventory and you look at it again.

Yes, it's strange and illogical that a redundant code would be on the key. But part of playing a video game is adapting to how it works. And this game, no matter how implausible the actual scenario is, is no different.

Jaxson Lee
Jaxson Lee

Never played the game but this looks pretty cool, what's the matter?

Austin Reed
Austin Reed

You guys are the reason why Fallout 4 was even MORE dumbed down than skyrim
HATE Sup Forums

Ian Russell
Ian Russell

3 symbols is the minimum required to make a puzzle like this. There's only 6 combinations possible so a monkey could figure it out.

At the rate we're going Fallout 4 is already no more an RPG than FarCry3 was.

Logan Diaz
Logan Diaz

press every key on keyboard, oh the W key goes forward
this is typical in 100% of PC games

go into inventory
press every key
nothing rotates
move mouse
doesn't rotate
game hasn't mentioned rotating at all
mechanic isn't in 90% of PC games and wasn't in previous ES games

Lucas Adams
Lucas Adams

get journal

Uh, you lost me there

Alexander Thompson
Alexander Thompson

Nah, in Far Cry 3 you couldn't back out of missions. In Fallout 4 you have three ways to say yes and a "No, later" dialogue.

Michael Phillips
Michael Phillips

go into inventory
mash keys like a mong
see the pattern pointed directly at your face
have a light chuckle
open door
fixed it for ya

Oliver Butler
Oliver Butler

Isn't there way more than 6 combos?

There's 3 symbols per ring, and there's 3 rings, so any combination of those

Oliver Ramirez
Oliver Ramirez

randomly
There are only a couple of keys it could logically be
fkeys are out of the question
keys that already have bindings to them are out
number keys are used for shortcuts if i remember correctly
the arrangement of the keys would have to follow a form of directional compass
should all of the possible working keys fail you have a mouse

Hudson Hughes
Hudson Hughes

the point of the thread is "why is rotating items left undocumented"
you'll see plenty of people clamouring about how genius they feel after solving the "puzzle"

they're quite proud of this sole accomplishment of theirs

Dominic Foster
Dominic Foster

Stop arguing about rotating. Rotating isn't even necessary for the puzzle, you are just exposing your own retardation here.

Bentley Evans
Bentley Evans

If this isn't a troll thread it is the reason why games continue to be dumbed down so brainlets can feel smart when they follow the arrow and get an achievement for it.

Carter Perez
Carter Perez

The main reason I didn't look at the claw is because of the puzzle a few minutes earlier where you have to look around the room to find the solution for rotating pillars. I assumed this puzzle would be the same where the solution is in the area, as that makes more sense to me.

Ethan Myers
Ethan Myers

keys that already have bindings to them are out
are they? you're not going to try any of those?
guess you're not going to be able to solve this clever menu puzzle ;)

Zachary Jenkins
Zachary Jenkins

Get told that the claw is the key to the door
get to door
it has a combination lock
open inventory
rotate right stick
object moves
WOOOW

Isaac Taylor
Isaac Taylor

You don't need to rotate the claw to see all 3 symbols on it's palm.

Anthony Gutierrez
Anthony Gutierrez

The environments are intricately crafted but the characters and storylines are almost always painted with broad stroked that are shitty.
I think thats it exactly, combat is meh, story is meh, invariably spend 90% of gameplay in empty building looking for valuables.

Weight management isnt my issue with their loot system, its the tediously looking around for valuables rather than actually progressing in the game that bothers me. Im not even saying its a bad system, its very detailed, lots if people really enjoy it. For me personally it makes the games so unfun that they are unplayable.

I did love morrowind when i was younger, because i viewed the open world through the eyes of childlike wonder.

Nathan Collins
Nathan Collins

and?

Carson Jones
Carson Jones

menu is a puzzle
cool joke

Caleb Ward
Caleb Ward

Overall the map is poorly laid out. It forces you to do a lot of traversal and the "gates" feel poorly positioned/implemented.

Daniel Harris
Daniel Harris

everyone in this thread saying brainlet seems to be serious about the menu being a puzzle

Julian Williams
Julian Williams

I beat Arena - Morrowind without looking anything up
The reason I got stuck on this is because the game doesn't mention rotating anywhere and never introduces you to the mechanic. Fuck off.

Bentley Hall
Bentley Hall

start up new save
ignore picking up anything that isnt slearly worth a few hundred gold
by level 4 have 4k gold to buy whatever else is needed
if you actually spend your time searching every little crevice of every shithole shack you come across, you have autism

Christopher King
Christopher King

The whole argument about rotating is baseless. The puzzle doesn't require rotating.

Benjamin Murphy
Benjamin Murphy

Yeah true, they can repeat. So its like 27 or something.

Aiden Turner
Aiden Turner

Morrowind was my introduction to their games and open world games as a whole, I'm pretty sure. I still get a kick out of them because I'm an explorefag and Bethesda's environment artists are some of the best in the business, so I just wander around looking for neat shit and wishing I could make things that look natural in the CK.

THE ROTATION IS NOT NEEDED. THE SYMBOLS ARE VISIBLE BY DEFAULT.

Aaron Green
Aaron Green

so why is it a positive aspect that the menu does not tell you how to rotate?

Austin Walker
Austin Walker

There might be some misinterpretation because I cannot fathom someone genuinely thinking that

Elijah King
Elijah King

see

James Foster
James Foster

Not sure how you extrapolated that from my post, but more power to you.

Hudson Rivera
Hudson Rivera

Everything leading up to the Golden Claw is fine, they even dropped a hint within a journal, but the ability to find out that the model itself could be rotated isn't exactly intuitive.

Adam Hill
Adam Hill

no, in the previous thread even, apparently figuring out the mechanic to rotate is considered a riddle more than the fact that the claw has anything on it

Logan Long
Logan Long

Not op, but when I first played Skyrim I played on such low quality that looking on the claw didn't help, you could barely understand what was on it.

Julian Flores
Julian Flores

Game even tells you to read the journal in the quest description if i don't remember wrong

Jackson Kelly
Jackson Kelly

I was just assuming this entire thread is being ironic I'm still going to assume that this is what is going on here. People are just making jokes clearly.

Asher Smith
Asher Smith

that may have been a jab at bethesda

Gabriel Gutierrez
Gabriel Gutierrez

Fortunately the glyphs are facing you by default.

Brandon Long
Brandon Long

If youre retarded and think they would use the same symbol twice for the solution then yeah.

Cooper Walker
Cooper Walker

some of them do

Easton Ross
Easton Ross

Why does it matter if you never need to rotate anything?

You can rotate the models on the loading screens too, and the game never tells you, is that also a flaw?

Ian Smith
Ian Smith

have shit hardware
blame bethesda
get a job or get back over the wall amigo

Aiden Robinson
Aiden Robinson

The reason I got stuck on this is because the game doesn't mention rotating anywhere and never introduces you to the mechanic.
You get a journal which basically tells you to look at the item you just got. The item appears in the inventory and the default position shows the symbols simmilar to the ones on the door. You would have to be an absolute retard to assume you have to push a button to rotate it instead of using the mouse.

Wyatt Roberts
Wyatt Roberts

Because rotating items isnt an essential feature to anything in the game, including the claw puzzle.

Liam Anderson
Liam Anderson

Great. I sure love brute forcing a puzzle and having no idea how to actually complete it every time.
Now fucking leave.

Zachary Jones
Zachary Jones

You don't need to rotate. The claw has it's palm showing in the inventory by default.

Colton Johnson
Colton Johnson

The only reason i knew you could rotate items was because i saw Todd himself sell the game live on GameSpot show or something, telling us how rich of a feature rotation is. Despite the fact everything else in the game has been cut. Like the stats reduced to 3. The awfull perk system. Less/more boring spells. Less separate armour items.

Todd sold his rotation garbage to hide the fact the games keep being dumbed down more and more.

Brayden Cook
Brayden Cook

Why does it matter
oh it's an easter egg now?
wowieee

Chase Long
Chase Long

that was the quakecon leaked footage
it's demonstrated that rotating the claw is the intended solution

Alexander Reyes
Alexander Reyes

hiding streamlining
Nigger, do you think hardcore gamers make up more than a fraction of the 12 million Skyrim players or whatever it's up to now? We could have another Morrowind if you'd be happy with it still looking like 2001.

Matthew Morales
Matthew Morales

Why would you need to brute force? The claw shows the 3 symbols in it's default inventory position.

The only reason why it wouldn't is if you somehow managed to accidentally rotate it beforehand, which I'm almost certain is fixed by exiting and entering the inventory

James Long
James Long

low quality bait

Robert Rivera
Robert Rivera

I think these games really do trigger some type of ocd/autism in me, i try to play like you, invariably end up sperging out in some empty shack.

Ethan Sullivan
Ethan Sullivan

This.

The muh "YOU CAN ROTATE INVENTORY AN SHIIET" feature was heavily advertised.

Does the game even use this feature on anything else except this claw puzzle?

Noah Rivera
Noah Rivera

You don't need to rotate the claw, it's palm and the 3 door symbols on it are visible by default

Samuel Evans
Samuel Evans

No

Grayson Robinson
Grayson Robinson

You dont even need the claw, how do you get stuck on a lock with only 6 realistic combinations?

Gabriel Collins
Gabriel Collins

There's a few claw puzzles but that's about it. There were those numbers you could find on the bug jars but I don't think there was any real reason for them.

Bentley Jenkins
Bentley Jenkins

Except you have to click and drag, nigger.
The 'pushing buttons to try rotating it' is against the retards saying "WOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW WASD MOVES YOU???"
Why the fuck should I have to click and drag on accident in the menu to discover a mechanic?

Connor Sullivan
Connor Sullivan

The muh "YOU CAN ROTATE INVENTORY AN SHIIET" feature was heavily advertised.
The NPC working the sawmill also got cheers from the crowd during that presentation. It's literally built for normies.

Blake Murphy
Blake Murphy

Hardcore doesn't matter. They still could have retained complexity because the game sold on its good looks and premise. The average chad wasn't excited to have Mana/Health/Stamina, he was excited to hurl fireballs and wave a sword in an open world game.

It would've sold just fine being morrowind like anyway. Todd just needed to lie from an other angle. Instead of pretending the game was an RPG, he should've pretended an RPG game was an Action game it was.

Julian Russell
Julian Russell

https://youtu.be/zvmdT-Sl7zw?t=22m1s

This is where Todd demonstrated item rotation on the golden claw.

David Sullivan
David Sullivan

It doesn't use it period. It's a purely cosmetic feature not needed for any quest.

You CAN rotate it and look at the symbols from another angle, or flip it however you please, but they're already visible even if you don't do that.

Dominic Lee
Dominic Lee

If they didnt let you rotate items, would you complain about it?

Lucas Garcia
Lucas Garcia

Instead of pretending the game was an RPG, he should've pretended an RPG game was an Action game it was.
And that would have burned the 11 million dudebros and turned them off the next Bethesda game, instead of burning the 1 million hardcore gamers who will inevitably pick up the next game anyway, even if they pirate it.

Jordan Sanders
Jordan Sanders

Except you have to click and drag
yes, and?

Why the fuck should I have to click and drag
Is this your first PC game?

Lincoln Moore
Lincoln Moore

You don't need to rotate anything anyways. It's purely cosmetic and all the positions reset after you leave the inventory.

Why does it matter?

Logan Rogers
Logan Rogers

Yes, Todd actually ruined the only 'puzzle' in the game with his live pitch. He sold the idea that alot of items will be needed to be able to rotate and that's gonna be a significant mechanic in the game for potential answers.

it wasn't. And at some point they rotated the claw bottom first so you even wouldn't need to rotate it, making his live presentation all the more bullshit.

Jeremiah Wood
Jeremiah Wood

Too bad that's literally the only puzzle in the game like that that is clever. You never find another one. It's only in this one heavily scripted dungeon they put effort into. Then it just repeats in random locations.

So fucking poor.

Owen Evans
Owen Evans

i complain because i watched this it's stupid that it's a feature that was demonstrated on stage, and the devekioer intended solution to a puzzle, but the menu is missing the legend for what buttons to press in order to do such a thing

Kayden Miller
Kayden Miller

Is this yours?
Count up how many PC games let you do this and weigh it against the amount that don't.
Now count how many of those games where they directly tell you/show you the rotation mechanic, unlike Skyrim.

Brandon Myers
Brandon Myers

devs give gamers an ounce of credit for their intellectual capacity
gamers still REEEEE six years later that it wasn't handheld enough
I weep for future generations of gamers whose most in-depth experiences will be Telltale games.

Jason Brown
Jason Brown

There's a few cool puzzles in the DLC involving steam valves, simple calculations, water levels, and moving platforms.

Andrew Harris
Andrew Harris

games will be as poor as your argument

Mason Hughes
Mason Hughes

IIRC the PC version of Skyrim didn't have the ability to rotate items in your inventory and was fixed in the first minor patch about 2-3 weeks after launch.
Not defending anyone but from reading the thread so far it seems like a lot of people have forgotten that.

William Perez
William Perez

please explain how this "claw puzzle" is anything more than a completely simple straightforward puzzle designed for even normies to understand

The fact that there's people in this thread saying it was bullshit boggles my fucking mind

Blake Allen
Blake Allen

There is no argument. The solution is laid out for you but reading a few lines of text was too much, so more than half a decade later you're still clutching your dislocated anus.

Charles Moore
Charles Moore

I think i saw a diffrent video where he brought even more attention to the mechanic.

The show had a host and todd was on the stage.

Robert King
Robert King

You don't need to rotate the claw to solve the puzzle. All 3 icons are visible in the claw's default position.

Maybe if you were playing at fucking 480p resolution you couldn't see them, but that's your own fault and wouldn't be solved by rotating.

Jacob Lee
Jacob Lee

Its like most of you dont even play games.

Dominic Garcia
Dominic Garcia

please explain how this "claw puzzle" is anything more than a completely simple straightforward puzzle designed for even normies to understand
it isn't
please explain how it's good game design to leave a feature of the menu undocumented

i knew the solution before the game released, and that is not the problem
why do you fervently defend this development issue with such a gosh darn simple solution?

Jack Thomas
Jack Thomas

why should it be documented?

Colton Wood
Colton Wood

is it better not to be?

Sebastian Peterson
Sebastian Peterson

As far as I know, the PC version had rotation at the earliest 5 days after the game was released.

This video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmgXsutPTk4
is dated Nov 16, 2011, and from 11:11 to 11:16, he zooms in and rotates the claw.

Liam Ward
Liam Ward

Oblivion had the mouse rotating your character in the menu. It also had you clicking and dragging the map to move around it. None of this was told to you yet people were smart enough to figure it out and didn't cry about it for 6 years.

Parker Lopez
Parker Lopez

Why does rotating items in the menu have anything to do with good game design when you never need to do it to perform any task in the game

David Barnes
David Barnes

please explain how it's good game design to leave a feature of the menu undocumented
FUCKING NINTENDO WHY WAS WAVEDASHING UNDOCUMENTED IN MELEE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Nathaniel Jackson
Nathaniel Jackson

people have always cried about oblivion's menus being poor
people cry about skyrim's menus being poor

Ian Butler
Ian Butler

The puzzle is easy
The lack of in game acknowledgement to the player that a mechanic exists to help you figure out said puzzle is bullshit

None of us got stuck on this puzzle because we either looked it up or forced our way through trying every combination.

Easy puzzle =/= Excuse for poor game design

Andrew Carter
Andrew Carter

it's the developer intended solution to the "puzzle"

do you believe this feature should be exclusive to hamhands that press buttons randomly, and people that watch prerelease footage?

Levi Bailey
Levi Bailey

Cause the expecations that you could do that was already in the average players consciousness as most games have those features.

Looking at items models up close for answers isn't a common feature.

Levi Watson
Levi Watson

You are stupidest mother fuckers on this planet and I sincerely hope none of you have offspring
Oh wait you can't anyway because there's no fucking button prompts.

Brody Thomas
Brody Thomas

None of us got stuck on this puzzle because we either looked it up or forced our way through trying every combination.
Or we did the intended thing and solved it using the clue in the journal, you fucking subliterate trash.

Carson Wood
Carson Wood

cool post
cooler poster

you win all of the internets today

Charles Gutierrez
Charles Gutierrez

help you figure out said puzzle

The claw's default position has it's palm and all 3 key icons facing directly towards the "camera". You don't need to rotate it. It wouldn't even help, all you'd be getting is a slightly different angle to show the exact same thing.

Gavin Gutierrez
Gavin Gutierrez

Yeah, menus in both of those games were console shit.

Having scroll down lists are the bottom of the barrel of the menu world. Unintuitive, limiting, you need to read names instead of just glance at an item or hover over to determine whether it's what you want.

Literally hitler tier stuff.

Daniel Smith
Daniel Smith

Wavedashing was accidental, the developers just didn't bother to remove it because they figured it wasn't detrimental to the game. It's not the same as intentionally putting a mechanic essential to completing the game in and then not mentioning it anywhere.

Oliver Perry
Oliver Perry

why do you call people illiterate when you so staunchly defend there being less words in the game, like one on the menu to tell you which button inspects an item

Adam Diaz
Adam Diaz

complain that modern TES is too casual
complain about this.

Id hate to see you fucks in games like Killer 7

Sebastian Thompson
Sebastian Thompson

After seeing legit threads praising MW2's story and characters, I'd have to say the overton window for Poe's Law has shifted far into shit taste territory.

Mason Wood
Mason Wood

Because its a non issue, if you cant automatically assume you can click and drag large 3d items in your inventory, then you are retarded and dont deserve any video games. Forsaking intuitive design for button promps for every fucking thing is not good design. Its your opinion there should be a button prompt, besause you are retarded and couldnt figure something out. Instead of accepting this fact, you have to bitch and moan and say something must be changed just because you had a hard time accomplishing a simple task. The more they pander to people like you, the more dumbed down everything gets, they will be afraid to add any features because little retarded jimmy might not be able to figure them out.

Gavin Nguyen
Gavin Nguyen

I just fucking guessed. There's only 27 possible combinations, that takes like 1 minute to try them all out.

Dominic Martin
Dominic Martin

Good thing viewing my character isn't required for anything.
Clicking and dragging a map when it gives you a fucking pointer is a standard.
Gee I wonder why no one bitched about those, really makes you meme.

Carter Morris
Carter Morris

OR we watched Todd give the answer to the only puzzle in the game before the game was released and never had the chance to test our casual levels.

James Edwards
James Edwards

I didn't look it up or bruteforce, I read the book from the dead elf then I looked at the key and put in the correct combo

Kayden Harris
Kayden Harris

Oblivion's menu for PC is fine but Skyrim's was shit since it was designed with consoles in mind. The items model was still available and it should have been obvious to click and drag it to look at it. Thinking you had to push a button to rotate it is fucking retarded.

Kevin Turner
Kevin Turner

you have to bitch and moan and say something must be changed just because you had a hard time accomplishing a simple task.
but i watched the prerelease footage, demonstrating this, and had no time hard time accomplishing the task
and i still think it's a stupid decision

what now?
your argument is baseless

Josiah Brown
Josiah Brown

have a puzzle
its almost impossible to figure out on your own
show how to solve it in the trailer footage
litterally every single dungeon has the EXACT same solution, the only thing different is the code you input which is the boring part

this is probably the worst puzzle in video games.

Henry Miller
Henry Miller

Good thing viewing my character isn't required for anything
Neither is rotating the claw

Joseph Smith
Joseph Smith

I'm more dissapointed with how once you figure out the problem, you just end up repeating.
Walk through dungeon
Find claw
2 minutes later you're using it in the same dungeon
There's no apparent attempt at more interesting situations. A broken claw where you need to find its parts across several places, a fake claw left by a bandit, a claw with its symbols scratched away because someone didn't want anyone else to know the answer so you'd have to find that guy's journal for the answer or something.
It's just, find claw, look at claw, use combo.

Carson Price
Carson Price

technically looking at the claw isn't required either, you know

Carson Taylor
Carson Taylor

undocumented
RTFM retard

Dominic Watson
Dominic Watson

exclusive
First of all, the console versions of the game (where the large majority of the sales came from) have an inspect item prompt on the menu

Secondly, when I played through, I never rotated the claw. But not long afterwards I found a cool sword and managed to figure out I could rotate it. Clicking on the 3D model isn't rocket science. And I won't say it's a bad feature because it's entirely cosmetic. That's like complaining that nobody told me I could have an alternative startup animation on my GameCube by holding Z.

Isaac Wright
Isaac Wright

Even at the 480p Youtube resolution I took these screenshots
in, I could still make out that the solution is
bear
some thing with outstretched wings
owl, or some elliptical thing
There really isn't any excuse, especially since there are no other symbols. Plus, I also played vanilla Skyrim on a console, although it was on a 1080p flat screen TV, and I figured out the claw puzzle without using rotation.

Sebastian Price
Sebastian Price

its almost impossible to figure out on your own

Luis Campbell
Luis Campbell

The thread was worth it just for this comment.

Michael Williams
Michael Williams

I should've had an NPC tell you check an item at the beginning of the game, to demonstrate it.

John Ortiz
John Ortiz

why would it be better if it was documented?

Robert Powell
Robert Powell

almost impossible
Try brain-dead simple. This puzzle was made for the most casual of players, there's a reason why normies like skyrim so much

Liam Russell
Liam Russell

mfw I see a thread saying MW2's online is the greatest FPS ever

Oliver Murphy
Oliver Murphy

First of all, the console versions of the game (where the large majority of the sales came from) have an inspect item prompt on the menu
do you have a picture of this?

because todd wants you to rotate the claw, he shows that the claw can be rotated
but why didn't todd tell us how to rotate the claw?

David Brown
David Brown

Thinking every interaction with the game menu needs a button prompt is just your opinion, yet you speak it like fact, you make an issue out of a non issue, then demand everyone concede to poor game design. Noone gives a shit about your opinion of Skyrims menu design, you needy little bitch. Its your opinion, and like you said you never even had trouble figuring out rotation yourself, you just want validation for your gay opinion about a tiny irrelevant menu item.

Robert Jenkins
Robert Jenkins

It is the intended solution though, and looking at it and figuring out the solution doesn't require rotating it.

Parker Miller
Parker Miller

I know, angry 12 year old tier comments are best

Nolan Baker
Nolan Baker

That'd be the best way. Just have a main quest where you have to look at the bottom of a boot or something.
It's also stupid in-game to have a puzzle that's so easily solved with a bit of patience. It'd make sense if it was like using both the claw and the combo on it to open the door, not just the combo.

Leo Barnes
Leo Barnes

I brute forced it...

Blake Martin
Blake Martin

I think that makes it an even shittier puzzle really. At least poison me for getting it wrong or something.

Jason Jackson
Jason Jackson

wow you really like to type! good job!
you should work on your spelling though, my small worthless opinion, but people should spell things correctly

Gabriel Price
Gabriel Price

he shows that the claw can be rotated
but why didn't todd tell us how to rotate the claw?
aren't those two basically the same thing?

Daniel Jenkins
Daniel Jenkins

OP here, the button prompt part was funny and you know it.

Sebastian Scott
Sebastian Scott

This shit reminds me of an old point and click game like grim fandango.
Lots of bullshit puzzles that, god knows why, people try to defend as logical.
This claw puzzle wasn't impossible to solve but it is shitty game design. They could have put some clear help in the game, like say a voiceline that tells you to take a closer look at the claw.

Mason Stewart
Mason Stewart

we couldn't see his beautiful hands
i either need a button prompt or to see our prophet, no, our GOD's lovely smooth hands

Ryder Campbell
Ryder Campbell

couldn't you just look at the screen

Hunter Perry
Hunter Perry

Todd wants you to rotate the claw

Apparently not considering how the palm is in full view, no rotating whatsoever required

I mean you'd be putting in useless effort by changing the rotation angle

Landon Anderson
Landon Anderson

Now youre getting it, your opinion is worthless.

Xavier Moore
Xavier Moore

So it's agreed then. PC gamers want Skyrim: The Elder Scrolls Six to have a 5 minute tutorial when entering the menu the first time to clearly explain every button and interaction that is possible.

Josiah Morgan
Josiah Morgan

Where are these comments saying that the claw is facing the viewer comming from?

Here's the earliest showing of Skyrims claw without rotation, first time it comes into your inventory.

There are no button prompts that the inventory item models are anything more than just vanity models as per standart expercations.

Todd gave the answer in these early videos too so i never even had the chance to figure it out, it was spoilered.

So the thread is full of a bunch of confused people misremembering the game and blaming each other for faults that were none.

Blake Wright
Blake Wright

It sure as hell was the most influential

Daniel Watson
Daniel Watson

like say a voiceline that tells you to take a closer look at the claw.
wouldn't have helped because there's no indication on how to take a closer look

where?

Aaron Morgan
Aaron Morgan

There is a journal that tells you to look at the claw.

David Morris
David Morris

Dominic Bennett
Dominic Bennett

How fucking long have you people been arguing this? Are you serious? Just move the right stick! You don't need a button prompt, because just nudging the right stick will show that you can rotate inventory items. Do you people not have any fucking common sense? Do you not just press all the buttons so you know what each one of them do? Why has argument gone on for two fucking threads?

THIS MEME ISN'T FUNNY ANYMORE! PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE ALL JOKING! IF I LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THIS MANY PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH NOT TO GET THIS, THEN JUST FUCKING KILL ME, BECAUSE WW3 IS ON THE FUCKING WAY!

YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE AUDACITY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT "CASUALS" AND "NORMIES", YET YOU GET BEFUDDLED BY A FUCKING B E T H E S D A PUZZLE OF ALL THINGS? AND YOU BLAME IT ON ANYONE BUT YOURSELF? DO YOU HAVE NO FUCKING SHAME? YOU PEOPLE ARE RETARDED. THE SOONER YOU ACCEPT IT, THE SOONER AAA STUDIOS CAN ACCOMMODATE FOR YOUR MASS MENTAL HANDICAP!

I fucking hat this place

Josiah Reyes
Josiah Reyes

Why does that dude have tits?

Parker Roberts
Parker Roberts

But then its no longer a puzzle, you are no longer figuring anything out yourself. Saying puzzles are poor game design is just your opinion, a shitty one at that.

Charles Evans
Charles Evans

You see those 3 round things on it? The ones in full view?

Those are the things you need to see to solve the puzzle

Tyler Ramirez
Tyler Ramirez

This thread cant be serious right?
even if you don't know the solution you just rotate the pieces.
It takes less than 5 minutes to just rotate through all the options
holy shit this isn't actually 14 year olds right

Bentley Young
Bentley Young

Button prompt will do just fine next to the other ones.
Maybe have a quest where an NPC straight up asks you to look at the back of something in their shop

Julian Foster
Julian Foster

Yeah, he has to rotate it as its not clear what the symbols are.

Anthony Stewart
Anthony Stewart

here looks like a screengrab from the early screenings don't have a link to the video on hand

Aiden Evans
Aiden Evans

pretty sure this whole thread is just Sup Forums doing the "im dumb haha xD" shit they've been doing for 8+ years now

Cameron Morgan
Cameron Morgan

Problem is you have to rotate to see clearly unlike what people claim. The default position isn't this. The lighting isn't helping to see the answer unless you rotate it flat to the viewers perspective.

Julian Russell
Julian Russell

Brandon Long
Brandon Long

Maybe at that Stunning image quality theyre not, but as has been demonstrated earlier in the thread they're perfectly visible ingame at 480p and above

Ayden Fisher
Ayden Fisher

explains all the people defending poor design as being OLD SCHOOL HARDCORE PROFEST

Brayden Hernandez
Brayden Hernandez

I'll give you the bottom symbol but the first 2 are pretty clear.

Daniel Torres
Daniel Torres

That's giving Sup Forums too much credit.

Angel Jones
Angel Jones

I want to hug Aqua.

Logan Clark
Logan Clark

but you can't defend it that way because you literally sit back and rotate the pieces until you get the combo it wants.
It takes no time at all and nobody got hung up on this.
I refuse to believe anyone is actually willing to complain about something this simple

Elijah Watson
Elijah Watson

I didn't need to rotate it to see them. I didn't even know you could rotate items until this thread, and I never had any trouble whatsoever. They're CLEARLY visible by "default position" or whatever you want to call it

John Johnson
John Johnson

Sup Forums is absolutely retarded.
hint that you need to use claw to get puzzle
MUH HANDHOLDING CASUALIZED RPG
don't hint at it
WAAA I CANT THINK FOR MYSELF

This was one of easiest puzzles in gaming and it's so easy for a lore based reason, the doors are to seal Draugar in, not keep looters out.

Carter Adams
Carter Adams

That's fine. I think all this unnecessary confusion could've been solved with the rest of the controls tutorial in the tutorial section, having the player pick something up while running from a dragon section and having to look at it.

Seems like the gimmick wasn't thought through by bethesda.

Asher Robinson
Asher Robinson

Stop saying poor design like you are video game jesus. You have no authority to dictate what is or is not good game design. If you have an opinion fine, but quit talking like you have any authority on the subject.

Jaxon Peterson
Jaxon Peterson

see

solution spelled out explicitly in journal
HARDCORE

prompt on menu to inspect item
CASUAL

Hudson Baker
Hudson Baker

gimmick

YOU LITERALLY JUST TURN THE FUCKING TURNSTILES YOU FUCKING IDIOT
YOU FLICK THE FUCKING STICK IN ONE DIRECTION AND FIGURE IT OUT

Samuel Ross
Samuel Ross

Seems like the gimmick wasn't thought through by bethesda.

It really wasn't, just like anything by Bethesda past Morrowind.

Gavin Perez
Gavin Perez

I can clearly see Bear, Moth, Owl in this 480p compressed YouTube screenshot at default position. Your argument is not correct. Especially when most people played at 720p or above.

Jordan Sanders
Jordan Sanders

you gonna tell your mom on me if i keep it up or something?

we'll fucking go there

Ethan James
Ethan James

If anyone
and I mean ANYONE at all
is saying that they need a hint for this puzzle then they are late as a human to playing any video games in general or they are underage.
This is not an argument that can be had. Especially when there are games even in the PS2 era that required at least an hour to figure out puzzles on average.

Gabriel Rivera
Gabriel Rivera

Whats a stick user? Why are you shouting about sticks?

Kayden Gonzalez
Kayden Gonzalez

it's more like two different shades of casual

Hunter King
Hunter King

Im pointing out that you are acting like a retard, you cant unlearn that, enjoy the rest of your life.

Aaron Robinson
Aaron Robinson

my menus always have one button prompt missing
that makes them HARDCORE

Joseph Price
Joseph Price

Yeah, that's a shitty video ive looked at. I wish i had the chance to work out the puzzle myself, but the early marketing material kinda ruined at the chance.

Luis Young
Luis Young

I swear when Elder VI Scrolls: The Skyrim comes out if it doesn't have "press WASD to move" when the game starts there will be countless threads bitching about not being told how to move.
"IM PRESSING THE ARROWS BUT IM NOT MOVIING!!!!!"
WHAT DO YOU MEAN IM SUPPOSED TO PUSH WASD TO MOVE??? THE GAME NEVER TOLD ME THAT!!!! HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW????"

Leo Russell
Leo Russell

Where is the statement even coming from?

Dylan Hill
Dylan Hill

people got stuck on a fucking preschool-tier "copy the shapes" puzzle

WHAT THE FUCK. Are you lads mentally touched?

Gabriel Lee
Gabriel Lee

press WASD to move
i believe they've had that since morrowind even

Leo Walker
Leo Walker

no it just makes it a menu with a prompt missing. also why should it be a button prompt?

Oliver Rivera
Oliver Rivera

People like you need to quit your fucking idiocy because it's ruining this board.
Call me whatever the fuck you want. At least before people like you started shitposting on this board we could have an actual discussion about video game mechanics and agree that this shit isn't fucking difficult without some faggot ass degenerate coming on saying "HURR WHATS A STICK"
Actually fucking off yourself.

Ryan Thompson
Ryan Thompson

Its an easy puzzel
Its shitty but not shitty desgin

Michael Thompson
Michael Thompson

why should it be a button prompt?
why should it exist?

Gabriel Perry
Gabriel Perry

Moving isn't a new feature in the series that's both rare in other games user.

That said, the item didn't need to be rotated in the first place.

Was the item turning mechanic poorly presented in the game?
yes
Did you need to rotate to solve the puzzle?
no

There are two discussions going on at the same time.entre spencer

Parker Kelly
Parker Kelly

There's a shit ton of people popping up in these threads saying they didn't know what to do with the claw and it's not entirely their faults

Button prompt, simple as that

Brandon Lewis
Brandon Lewis

300 replies

Jace Cox
Jace Cox

what "it" are you referring to?

Ryan Rivera
Ryan Rivera

user, please, you're scaring the children!

Not everyone has sticks on their keyboard and mouse user, calm down.

Liam Cooper
Liam Cooper

Nobody is saying it makes it hardcore, we are saying that the puzzle is so brain-dead simple the fact you have to resort to "but there's no inspect item prompt" to defend your inability to solve it is fucking ridiculous

I am 100% confident that millions of 12 year olds played skyrim on their xboxes and did the puzzle just fine

Cameron Allen
Cameron Allen

I just dropped the claw. Picked it up using Z and moved it so I could clearly see

What is the problem? You don't even need to do it in the menu lmao

Leo Taylor
Leo Taylor

The game actually tells you its own mechanics, user.
If you can't figure out that you can take those and apply them to puzzles then don't play single player video games.

I told you to stop acting retarded on purpose

John Brooks
John Brooks

I played on a potato on lowest graphical settings and could very easily make out the symbols.

This game is easy.

This game appeals for casuals.

This game makes Sup Forums really mad because of that.

I don't mind tho.

Camden Hall
Camden Hall

This guy - best guy.

Fuck bethesdas rotation gimmicks, you can do it in game, like a proper game should do.

Nathaniel Lewis
Nathaniel Lewis

No one wants to give validation to retards, its that simple.

Kayden Bell
Kayden Bell

to defend your inability
read any post chain
people didn't lack ability to figure it out, they question why the prompt is missing

i knew, before the game released, how this "puzzle" was solved
i do not believe that the "puzzle" should be how to figure out how to rotate an item, but the puzzle should be that you look at an item
people are defending otherwise, people believe that the game would be lesser if there was a button prompt explaining how to rotate items

explain this position

Jordan Barnes
Jordan Barnes

Why would they need a button prompt when using the rotate/inspect item feature isn't even necessary.

All 3 symbols on the claw's palm are visible in it's default position. There was no reason anyone should have been confused, even if they didn't know how to rotate it.

Josiah Cruz
Josiah Cruz

I had no idea that this was even an issue until this thread. Are you fucking serious?

Anthony Diaz
Anthony Diaz

Moving isn't a new feature in the series that's both rare in other games user.
Using the mouse to rotate in the menu isnt a new feature in the series either. You rotated your character in the menu in Oblivion by using the mouse and it had no button prompts either.
you didnt have to rotate your character though
You don't have to rotate the claw either, just as you said.

Jeremiah Jones
Jeremiah Jones

/v/ Talks about videogames for ones
Woah what a bunch of suckers

Chase Reed
Chase Reed

You know that thing you do with the altar at the start of the game?
You do the same thing with the claw.

Adam Parker
Adam Parker

"Quest items cannot be removed from your inventory"

Oops!

Jacob Peterson
Jacob Peterson

people didn't lack ability to figure it out, they question why the prompt is missing
i think that's just you dude

Christopher Morris
Christopher Morris

So what exactly are we supposed to do with that puzzle?

I've never played Skyrimjobs so I don't know.

Michael Perez
Michael Perez

What do you mean user. I don't have sticks.

Keyboard controls weren't listed like the controller controls were.

That said, i agree with you my love, rotation wasn't even necessary to solve it, so people not smart enough didn't figure out to look at the inventory. I disagree with you that the feature of rotation wasn't anything more than a shitty marketing gimmick to hide there's less substance to the game now as the feature was useless and not a game mechanic in any shape or form. It's pointless vanity.

Xavier Roberts
Xavier Roberts

It's literally just retards vs people who have played video games before

Michael Price
Michael Price

But you do just look at the item. You don't even need to rotate it whatsoever.

I don't see why a rotate item prompt has anything to do with it and I don't see why you've latched onto that for your defense.

Justin Moore
Justin Moore

You know that thing you do with the altar at the start of the game?
what

could be some for one, some for another
it's more than just me though, i don't understand why people are against the idea of this prompt existing when there is a prompt for everything else

why is it so offensive of a concept?

James Thomas
James Thomas

Now that you said it ive realised i'd rather have my character model in the inventory than useless in game models.

Elijah Barnes
Elijah Barnes

why should there be one?

Elijah Davis
Elijah Davis

The puzzle door is literally just a re-skin of the the vault door from the fallout 3 series that goes down instead of sideways

How are you "gamers" so easily dupped haha -Todd laughing In the distance-

Tyler Brown
Tyler Brown

consistency

there is a listed button for equipping items, there is a listed button for dropping items, why can't there be a listed button for inspecting items?

Gavin Anderson
Gavin Anderson

Social media(fb) and LoL were a mistake.

Robert Edwards
Robert Edwards

I have nothing against a prompt for rotating items but I also don't see why there should be one at all, considering how it's not needed to do any task in the game, and how 99% of people would figure it out on their own by moving their RS or clicking on the 3D item in their menu

Luke Evans
Luke Evans

But the m/kb controls were shown to you to let you know that you could rotate objects did they not? I played controller on my playthroughs and I see no reason why theyh wouldn't.
Regardless I never made an attempt to say rotating the object gave deeper game mechanics but that you could easily figure out the puzzles regardless based off of the game mechanics given.

Jaxson Moore
Jaxson Moore

So Discussion Depleted

Conclusions

1. Stupid people didn't solve it
2. Rotation is nothing more than a shitty gimmick that has no purpose in the game despite Todd telling us otherwise in his marketing pitch.
3. Bethesda is shit at gamedesign
4. Puzzles are done for in bethesda titles.

Austin Allen
Austin Allen

again why should there be? plenty of people got along fine without the prompt.

Ayden Smith
Ayden Smith

There is a door with 3 rotating rings that have different animal symbols on them. You're supposed to line up the three correct animal symbols to open the door. The game more or less blatantly tells you to look at the item you just received to figure out the correct order to open the door. Going into the menu and looking at the item it shows you the order but if you need more clarification you could rotate the item to get a better view. Brainlets are upset that there wasn't an explicit button prompt to tell them how to rotate the item even though it should be clear as day to use the mouse to rotate the item.

Jordan Phillips
Jordan Phillips

why is it so offensive of a concept?
Because it panders to retards, and validates their opinions. Noones saying they would complain if there was a button prompt, but im not going to blame Bethesda for something that is a non issue. The fact people are claiming "poor game design" over something so insignificant is why its offensive.

Joshua Reed
Joshua Reed

I can agree with this

Asher Jackson
Asher Jackson

if you want to repeat your post you can just repeat reading mine, the answer was whole and concise

Jaxson Johnson
Jaxson Johnson

Basically, the key to this door is an item called the Golden Claw. You get this claw by killing an NPC named Arvel the Swift, who is in the same dungeon. You do this either because you have a specific quest to retrieve the claw from him, since he stole it, for its owner, a merchant in Riverwood, the first town you visit. In the same inventory you get the claw from, is Arvel's journal. That journal tells you that the door is a test from the ancient Nords to keep out intruders, but
when you have the golden claw, the solution will be in the palm of your hands

The intended solution is very simple. Go into your inventory, and look at the claw. There are three symbols on it. There are also three rotatable sections on the door that share the same symbols as the claw: a bear, a moth, and an owl. Simply match the symbols on the door with the symbols on the claw, insert the claw by interacting with the keyhole, and the door opens.

Jonathan Parker
Jonathan Parker

I'm gonna try to run through this shitshow again, see if I can actually finish before I get bored this time.

Ethan Jones
Ethan Jones

*or because he tries to kill you once you get to the area he's in
Sorry, forgot to add that

Noah Brooks
Noah Brooks

you didn't actually answer my question though you just replied with another question.

Jason Cooper
Jason Cooper

Good luck when you get the "bleak falls Barrow" quest, there a claw puzzle there and it's really hard. Nearly impossible actually.

Ayden Green
Ayden Green

this puzzle is too hard for my small brain so it must be bad game design!

Okay did you really had to make a thread to show how much of an uncultured monkey you are?

Parker Cook
Parker Cook

Alright fuck you guys I'm out.
Good shit talk with all of you

Noah Myers
Noah Myers

why should a button prompt be there?
to be consistent with the other button prompts

answered

now you, what are the advantages of it not being there?

Juan Brown
Juan Brown

Before you go, did you quit this thread in more or less time than it took you to solve this real headscratcher of a puzzle?

Isaac Clark
Isaac Clark

There were no mention of it at the bottom, despite having shortcuts for stuff like equip and drop, while the controler plugged in- did have them . But yeah, i agree it's a none issue as the feature is useless anyway. But still would've been a small nice indication.

Sebastian Cox
Sebastian Cox

Nigga are your goalposts on wheels or what?
it's impossible without an undocumented feature
given proof "feature" is not needed
but muh 'tism and symmetry n sheeeit!

Alexander Harris
Alexander Harris

What if I'm not a brainlet and thought it was cute the first time, but quickly found it incredibly tedious, along with all their other 'puzzles'?

The game could have just stopped after the first dungeon because nothing else happens.

I guess that mage guild quest has a cool dungeon too. None other really come to mind, they are all just identical.

Gabriel Edwards
Gabriel Edwards

I love how motherfuckers think they know shit about game design, and just throw those words around like nothing. Oh im sorry are you a professional game developer? I didnt know.

Christopher Brooks
Christopher Brooks

a lot of people did fine without it
Implies that not everyone got it. The only reason every one didn't get it is because of something simple as a button prompt being absent. It's a shitty puzzle made shittier since you can just flip through it, of course no one actually got stuck on it.

Angel Lopez
Angel Lopez

why is it so hard for you to reply with a valid argument?

you sure try to dodge it

Zachary Smith
Zachary Smith

cheeky cunt
I love this place

Chase Martinez
Chase Martinez

never really read the journals/books so I didnt know about turning the claw around
tfw just randomly turned the rings till the door opened

Theres like three rings. Less than 50 possible combinations.
Its not that hard.

Carson Moore
Carson Moore

Thanks for the compliment.

Asher Howard
Asher Howard

but hes right you negroid.

Justin Wilson
Justin Wilson

The only reason every one didn't get it is because of something simple as a button prompt being absent.
But that's clearly not the case. In this thread we have multiple people saying they didn't realize the rotation was a feature because the solution was in clear sight by default.

Gavin Allen
Gavin Allen

because of reasons said hereand before you try to force words into peoples mouths like here and here i will remind you that this is not about the game being hardcore. it has already been decided years ago that skyrim is casual shit

Adam Wood
Adam Wood

If you actually got mad at all of this I'm sorry
It's b8 m8

Levi Martin
Levi Martin

it's impossible without an undocumented feature
Who said this? Point the post out right fucking now.

Chase Diaz
Chase Diaz

two joke posts by different anons is "forcing words into peoples mouths"
The absolute state of you m8.

Nathan Cruz
Nathan Cruz

What if I'm not a brainlet and thought it was cute the first time, but quickly found it incredibly tedious, along with all their other 'puzzles'?
That's fine. Skyrim really needed more puzzles than "rotate the 3 rings on the door" and "rotate the 3 stones that totally isn't the same as the door puzzle cause it's stones now!" bullshit.

Tyler Cox
Tyler Cox

they're rather poor reasons, sorry

Lucas Jackson
Lucas Jackson

normally someone post proof they aren't samefagging why didn't you

explain how they are poor

Michael Robinson
Michael Robinson

because of reasons said here
MUH CASUALIZATION BWUHHHH ACKNOWLEDGING A GAME MECHANIC IS HANDHOLDING I'M A GROWN UP DAMMIT

Lucas Mitchell
Lucas Mitchell

Speaking of headscratchers

Blake Barnes
Blake Barnes

theres actually people in this very thread who couldnt solve the puzzle on OP
the same people who complains that Skyrim is for casuals

Gotta love that ironing.

Angel White
Angel White

Skyrim really needed more puzzles than "rotate the 3 rings on the door" and "rotate the 3 stones that totally isn't the same as the door puzzle cause it's stones now!" bullshit.
Why would you alienate Chads with that when hardcore gamers can't even solve a puzzle that is laughably simple.

Screenshots are so easily edited that if you accept them as proof of non-samefagging you're beyond retrieval and should remove yourself from the gene pool immediately.

Logan Adams
Logan Adams

You can't prove who (you) are on desktop you infantile

Landon Cruz
Landon Cruz

normally someone post proof they aren't samefagging why didn't you
i'm all about consistency so if you can't identify posts by someone's typing style you might just have the autisms

explain how they are poor
well saying "it's for retards, so they shouldn't be there" is implying that "it being gone means it's for smart people", which you try to deny as what is being said, and it is true, you're not explicitly saying that, but implicit things are hard to deny

Luis Diaz
Luis Diaz

Oh jeez, I didn't even stop to consider that this thread is full of brainlets because phoneposters flooded in over the last couple of years.

Jonathan Edwards
Jonathan Edwards

That dude is clearly not arguing on our side, he was making a different point

The post doesn't even chain into any of yours or the dude's you were replying to, wtf

Hunter Gonzalez
Hunter Gonzalez

Why would you alienate Chads with that when hardcore gamers can't even solve a puzzle that is laughably simple.
If rotate the rings is hard for them I can't wait until they get to the Dwemer puzzle bullshit where you had to use ice and fire magic and push several buttons to rotate a bunch of light reflecting rings in order to get the Elder Scroll. I still don't even know how to properly do that bullshit and just push buttons until I get it right.

Isaac Miller
Isaac Miller

strawmanning cause you don't have a proper argument
and now you've lost
well saying "it's for retards, so they shouldn't be there" is implying that "it being gone means it's for smart people"
that's not what it means at all a game this simple and easy doesn't need it. remove it doesn't make it smarter or harder it still the same casual skyrim.

Andrew Foster
Andrew Foster

a game this simple and easy doesn't need it
what do you mean?
why is the menu better for lacking documentation?

Matthew Gonzalez
Matthew Gonzalez

That's hardly a strawman.
is being an elitist over something that wouldn't detract from the game, a button prompt, because it would be validating our opinions.
aka
BWUUHHH CASUALS AND HANDHOLDING

Isaiah Bell
Isaiah Bell

again it isn't a matter of better or worse. with or without the prompt, skyrim is casual trash through and through.

Ayden Miller
Ayden Miller

k

Robert Scott
Robert Scott

well saying "it's for retards, so they shouldn't be there" is implying that "it being gone means it's for smart people", which you try to deny as what is being said, and it is true, you're not explicitly saying that, but implicit things are hard to deny
I was trying to say that its fine the way it already is, you are arguing like the game isnt out yet, and we are debating wether there should be a rotation prompt.
Thing is, the games been out for 6 years, and its fine with no prompt. Going back now and saying thats bad game design is retarded.
Its a tiny insignificant detail, but these retards just want validation for their shitty opinions.
Im not saying add or remove anything, im saying do nothing, its not needed.

Christopher Mitchell
Christopher Mitchell

are you implying that both elitism is wrong and that casuals aren't ruin video games?

Aaron Nelson
Aaron Nelson

enter thread about bad game design
lol it doesn't matter which is better or worse
Why are you here?

Grayson Stewart
Grayson Stewart

Wait a minute, that claw...

Aaron Barnes
Aaron Barnes

I would argue they don't even need puzzles!

Just take them out!

Make the gameplay and fights better!
Just get rid of all those shitty puzzles.

I am surprised at how playable the game is without hud markers of any kind. After playin through the first time, which was just like 'run towards quest markers', I had a lot more fun (but didn't beat the game again) playing with no markers at all. You have to listen to people, and check your maps and look at your compass and shit and get your bearing.

There's too much detail in the world though. I can't bear playing it on a monitor anymore, I need a VR headset with head tracking, so I can actually look around these towns and look at the wildlife and shit.

Parker Powell
Parker Powell

use the claw to get inside
yes instructions are very clear here you dumb fuck

Nathaniel Ortiz
Nathaniel Ortiz

Ahego
Worst

Brayden Johnson
Brayden Johnson

ALL GAMES ARE JUST FETCH QUEST WAAAAAAAAH!!!

After I recently sat down and actually played the game and looked for this issue, I found that this argument is complete BS. I have done MORE QUEST that involve something other than just collecting an item than I have otherwise.

And yes, while there are "quest markers", there are many different ways to reach that quest marker.

Joseph Garcia
Joseph Garcia

thread about bad game design starts because of an anons inability to do something casuals figured out 6 years ago
the real question is why wasn't this thread axed from the get go

Jose Robinson
Jose Robinson

how does this lighthouse survives those waves?

Adrian Thompson
Adrian Thompson

My hardware was pretty good for it's price, when I bought it 8 years before (before playing Skyrim that is, that PC died a year after).
Stop being so mad over nothing.

I played on a potato on lowest graphical settings and could very easily make out the symbols.
Two options: either you lie, or they realized the symbols are impossible to view on lowest setting and fixed it in a patch. I played a very early, pirated version.

This game appeals for casuals.
Never said it wasn't.

Christopher Walker
Christopher Walker

...who's behind this post?

Joshua Collins
Joshua Collins

Have you people never used a computer before? You're on the fucking level of my grandparents being too afraid to press buttons and click places and experiment to figure shit out yourselves without the answers being plastered in your face. If you couldn't figure out how to rotate something in a videogame without big button prompts you are literally L I T E R A L LY retarded. Kill yourselves.

Joseph Ross
Joseph Ross

everyone who claims he didnt try to figure it out with the walls first is fucking lying

Dylan Jackson
Dylan Jackson

Uh I just brute forced the lock since there weren't many combinations

Gabriel Miller
Gabriel Miller

people figured it out
automatically not bad, no way to improve, fuck polishing
k

Easton Thomas
Easton Thomas

After I recently sat down and actually played the game and looked for this issue, I found that this argument is complete BS.
There's like five different quest types in RPGs if you really analyze them. Maybe they string them out with multiple stages involving the other types, but in the end they always have the same elements.

he doesn't read every note immediately
I want nu-gamers to leave.

Adam Gomez
Adam Gomez

Buttom Prompts
Press [X] to Puzzle
Fuck you

Zachary Myers
Zachary Myers

he doesn't read every note immediately
I want nu-gamers to leave.
The only thing I read in the elder scrolls series is the lusty argonian maid

Isaac Thomas
Isaac Thomas

play 20 hours without starting the main quests
after 20 hours the first and only kind of quest that needs you to look precisely at an item in your inventory
somehow this is very logical
i think you are the retard here autismo

Juan Thompson
Juan Thompson

According to the text, the claw is the key to getting inside
By trying, you will find out you can't just simply use the claw to open the door
Maybe I should take a closer look at the claw

This is the thought process of anyone not mentally handicapped.

Jose Robinson
Jose Robinson

people figured it out
automatically not bad
yes that's what it means. it may be completely average, but it's not bad

Asher Evans
Asher Evans

I did it according to food chain
bear, owl dragonfly
Hmm didnt work, well bear must be on top, he is bear, swap the other two
bear, dragonfly, owl
Door opens, wow a real brain bender that one.

Adam Perry
Adam Perry

he doesn't read every note immediately
this isnt world of warcraft you pleb, the npcs can talk to you

Bentley Rogers
Bentley Rogers

see this

Levi Peterson
Levi Peterson

You understand you have a choice of who you reply to, yes? You are not obligated to reply to posts you think are stupid just because they are in response to you.

Levi Johnson
Levi Johnson

Wow... a BETHESDA game has BAD design?

Never in a million years would have I thought that. Damn... this changes... EVERYTHING!!

Hunter Scott
Hunter Scott

you are arguing like the game isnt out yet
oh come on let's be honest here, there's 20 more versions of skyrim that need to come out in the next 5 years

Gavin Gonzalez
Gavin Gonzalez

Sup OP, still assblasted over the problem being you and not the game?

Jason Russell
Jason Russell

You mean the npc that was entirely unwilling to give you the claw and that you had to chase down and stab in the back to get it (and the journal that talks about it)?

You can't just have every quest related npc exposition dump, it wouldn't make sense most of the time.

Parker Kelly
Parker Kelly

implying i'm op and implying I will read 400 posts of children arguing

No thanks.

Ryder Thomas
Ryder Thomas

You literally guessed. Bad design.

Charles Cruz
Charles Cruz

Not him, and not op, but we're not unironically defending Bethesda right now, are we?

I sure hope we're not.

Dominic King
Dominic King

He literally ignored the logical course of action. Bad player.

Cooper Reed
Cooper Reed

And there will never be a rotation prompt in any of them. The only reason im still here is because of the people pretending this actually matters and affects the overall game. There is no rotation prompt, it doesnt mater, they need to get over it and stop fishing for validation.

Nolan Cooper
Nolan Cooper

closer to 1000 with last thread

Levi Morris
Levi Morris

Commit suicide in the most painful way possible.

Ethan Kelly
Ethan Kelly

The only reason im still here is
...
fishing for validation.
oh another projector

Anthony Collins
Anthony Collins

the most important post

Dylan Jones
Dylan Jones

Puzzle solving can feel out of place and unexpected in elder scrolls and I think it's because there's like one puzzle in the entire game so your mind is not really in a thinking state i'd say, for example the only puzzle I think is in oblivion is the one where you have to read all 4 of the deadra books and take the first letter of each sentence to give you a hint about where to find the map to find the shrine. The puzzles aren't particularly impossible but it's not really a puzzle game.

Robert Roberts
Robert Roberts

It's a shitty puzzle so if anything he did the faster option.

Joseph Fisher
Joseph Fisher

why is this puzzle hard!? Why don't they tell me how to do it?

Lot of crying in this thread. The difficulty is part of the challenge. Granted, I had to Google the answer, but it didn't feel unfair. Tinkering with it after reading the journal should get you there.

The real bad design choice was making it the solution to 3/4 of the game's dungeons.

Mason Murphy
Mason Murphy

Solved in 2 attempts
bad player
Get stuck, have to look up guide
bad game design
Never change Sup Forums

Jason Russell
Jason Russell

How can you even pretend to support something like "Hey, you picked up a puzzle item, press this button to look at it better!" shit?

That's not good game design, that's fucking toddler ass bullshit casual game design. The claw is already a fuck-easy puzzle for anyone to do, and once you do it once, you do it for all the other 20 fucking times you have to do it in skyrim.

Skyrim has ONE fucking puzzle, and it's that.

Owen James
Owen James

Man what the fuck, I can't beat Bayonetta with one hand amputated and the other missing three fingers? Bad game design!

Austin Myers
Austin Myers

I blame the bad game design, user we can be friends :>

Hudson Watson
Hudson Watson

A dude with a kid and no desire to buy an ultra wide monitor.

I would also love it for playing Just Cause 2 and maybe other Just Cause games if I upgrade my toaster. It's like a vacation on a tropical beach and I can just be like "it'd be awesome if I had a boat right now' and then I can go fuck around on a boat or fly and some shit.

Lincoln Nguyen
Lincoln Nguyen

I'm literally stuck on the first mission with the exploding plane send help

Christopher Reyes
Christopher Reyes

How can you even pretend to support something like "Hey, you picked up a puzzle item, press this button to look at it better!" shit?

Or you would just pick the item like normal.
The button prompt would be on the menu from the start of the game.
Maybe you didn't think of that.

Nolan Perez
Nolan Perez

I don't know what you're talking about. Are you saying the game would tell you how to solve the golden claw puzzle before you even start the game?

Jose Lee
Jose Lee

He didn't have to because he wasn't stumped by a kindergarten level puzzle.

Robert Reyes
Robert Reyes

I just can't wrap my head around someone not getting it. I mean, the journal mentions that the claw is used to open the door. You then go to the door, use the claw on it and nothing happens.

That means there is an additional task that needs to be done. You will most likely notice the rings on the door immediately and try interacting with them. They spin, and you realize the symbols need to be in a certain order. That's when you remember/read what the journal said/says; "when you have the golden claw, the solution is in the palm of your hands."

That line confirms that the solution is on the palm of the claw itself. After this realization, you go to the inventory screen, look up the claw and try to find something on it. The palm side is facing away from you though, so your first instinct is to try and drag on it to rotate it and what do you know, it rotates and reveals the symbols.

It just seems so simple and logical that I don't see how someone could fail to follow that train of thought.

Jace Torres
Jace Torres

mean, the journal mentions that the claw is used to open the door.
I said it before but people either ignored it or thought it was a joke: These people are the sort who don't read. They got us the voiced protagonist in Fallout 4 by being unwilling or unable to spend 2 seconds looking at text.

Jonathan Parker
Jonathan Parker

Fuck have I been taking the bait this whole time?

Aiden Jenkins
Aiden Jenkins

They are just arguing that a visual prompt for how to rotate would be MORE clear, theyve latched onto this argument and just want someone, anyone, to give them positive feedback on their dumb idea that noone actually needs.

Adam Hill
Adam Hill

Get claw
Remember you can zoom in and rotate
Can't zoom in, key doesn't work for some reason
Click and drag doesn't spin item
Have to do each claw by carefully looking at it with default angle but luckily the images aren't hard to see
I don't know why all of that zooming and spinning of items was broken for me on release. Probably because it's another Bethesda game, but luckily I didn't pay for it anyways.

Cooper Lopez
Cooper Lopez

I'm not the guy you've been talking to this WHOLE conversation, this is a new conversation you and I are having.

I am asking why the golden claw needs a button prompt. Your explanation was not very enlightening, as I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Say it better.

Adrian Richardson
Adrian Richardson

SMD I'm playing Morrowind as we speak
F4 is not only shit but F3 is as well
MUH CASUALS

Josiah Cooper
Josiah Cooper

This entire thread is bait, quality bait at that.

Cooper Diaz
Cooper Diaz

you still haven't worked on your spelling, please address it

Sebastian Smith
Sebastian Smith

It probably would have helped a number of people if it wasn't a Bethesda game, which are infamously shallow and buggy and dumbed down, but since Bethesda IS known for being so shit then people can't imagine there being a remotely worthwhile puzzle.

Oliver Morris
Oliver Morris

give me press x to win
neo/v/, everyone

Brayden Green
Brayden Green

Noone cares.

Grayson Clark
Grayson Clark

he's probably the only one that does

Xavier Rogers
Xavier Rogers

The reason why it's bad design isn't because "hurr durr the game doesn't tell you to rotate it in the inventory", it's because the item is both the key and the key to the puzzle, and the same puzzle gets used a hundred times more.

Cooper Myers
Cooper Myers

why does it need a prompt
There's no other indication that the mechanic exists in game other than a book prompting you to look at an item.
On top of that, interacting with a 3D object in your inventory isn't a standard
On top of that you have to click ON the item, hold and drag, it's no where near as intuitive as a gamepad where you always know that the analog is for turning and you don't have to hold a button for it, you'll probably do it on accident.
How do you turn your character in the PC version? Do you hold a button? That alone makes it way less likely for someone to find the mechanic on accident.

Easiest way to solve this? A fucking BUTTON PROMPT tucked away in the menu.
ITS SO E Z 2 COMPREHEND

Carter Scott
Carter Scott

Well, I mean, I knew that I had to look at the claw, but I didn't look at it in my inventory. I dropped it on the ground and bonked it around until I got a good look at the sequence.

I'm sorry, but I literally had no idea about the "look at shit" mechanic and I still had no trouble with the puzzle.

Jayden Collins
Jayden Collins

GIVE ME
OR GIVE ME a min to spin through these and unlock it!

Brayden Bell
Brayden Bell

by the time you figure out that you can click on the item in order to enter inspection mode, you've probably sworn off of using the mouse for the menus too, since what you click on isn't always what the game thinks you clicked on

what's under the mouse cursor isn't necessarily whats highlighted in white, or what is currently enlarged text, or what is centered under the menu curose
kind of a crapshoot unless you default to keyboard controls, which have no way to enter inspection mode

Joseph Perry
Joseph Perry

you have to click ON the item, hold and drag, it's no where near as intuitive as a gamepad
holy shit you're a consolefag

Charles Barnes
Charles Barnes

Reusing the same puzzle is bad design.

Putting the code on the claw is a matter opinion, as is the need for a rotation prompt.

Can you guys see the difference?

Asher James
Asher James

I am so shit at videogames I need massive prompts telling me what to do every time I encounter something remotely different

Go back to corridor shooters you useless shitter.

Ryan Kelly
Ryan Kelly

Holding and dragging to rotate an object is unintuitive

Kayden Evans
Kayden Evans

basic game function is now considered a puzzle
whats up with all the retards today

Jeremiah Anderson
Jeremiah Anderson

The Xbox 360/PS3 generation of gamers are the fucking worst.

Mason Wood
Mason Wood

The puzzle is suppose to be "baby block shape sorter"-tier because it was only meant to keep draugrs in, not keep niggers out

Henry Moore
Henry Moore

>>387402726
This might be a later patch. I played version 1.0 on the PC with no patches.

Granted, I eventually figured out how to look at it eventually anyway.

Alternatively, there is a small chance I am remembering it completely wrong. Either way, it's not hard.

Noah Reyes
Noah Reyes

clicking on a 3D object in your inventory to rotate it is a standard in video games

You know what is a standard tho? Telling players in game that a mechanic exists.

John Williams
John Williams

You can drop the claws, I had them all lined up in one of my houses.

Lucas King
Lucas King

you cant drop them till you complete the quest, where they stop being quest items and can be dropped

Alexander Richardson
Alexander Richardson

We're not debating that the puzzle is hard or easy, hun.

Jaxson Foster
Jaxson Foster

Having a brain is pretty standard, but you're really going against the grain there huh champ?

James Ortiz
James Ortiz

The guy is literally a mindless contrarian, lel.

Benjamin Carter
Benjamin Carter

Its not a mechanic its a basic menu function in all cannons of computer applications.

BASIC
MENU
FUNCTION

If you cant figure out how to click and drag, you arent smart enough to know to look at the claw for the code anyways, therefore a menu prompt would be useless in all cases.

Logan Harris
Logan Harris

You can't comprehend game design so I don't expect you to be able to imagine my brain.
It's like trying to think of a color you've never seen before, it's beyond your perception.

Mason Mitchell
Mason Mitchell

Not an argument. The symbols can be seen on the claw without rotating it, and even if you do need to rotate it, considering you have a cursor in the menu it's really not a stretch to try to grab and drag the claw to do so, as is done in every other three dimensional program.

Angel Martin
Angel Martin

it's not useless to people that want to inspect the item and don't just press random buttons in inappropriate places because they're stupid

Hunter Gray
Hunter Gray

figure out
There's nothing to figure out. The game has zero indication that clicking and dragging anything anywhere will do something.

Hudson Wood
Hudson Wood

call other people stupid when you need a prompt to figure out the simplest puzzle

Ethan Cooper
Ethan Cooper

knowing how to do something intuitively
Stupid
figuring something out by trial and error
Stupid
babby tier menu prompts and handholding
SMURT

Michael Reed
Michael Reed

How exactly is this considered bad game design? Serious question.

Sebastian Gonzalez
Sebastian Gonzalez

Weak excuse by Bethesda.

James Moore
James Moore

It's considered bad game design because it didn't provide the solution immediately and required them to rub their two brain cells together.

Jeremiah Ortiz
Jeremiah Ortiz

Then how the fuck come i already KNEW clicking and dragging would rotate items in my inventory?

Because clicking and dragging is part of basic computer use.

If you are unfamiliar with computers you might have a hard time playing computer games, thats not the game devs fault, its not their job to teach you how to use a PC.

Henry Turner
Henry Turner

dragonfly, owl
Where the hell do you live with that foodchain?

Jack Edwards
Jack Edwards

I can't comprehend a void that large to encompass your lack of a brain if you can't figure something so simplistic out with explicit instruction.

Ethan Morgan
Ethan Morgan

how come I KNEW???
Who fucking cares.
Because clicking and dragging is part of basic computer use
Great, we're talking about computer games.
thats not the game devs fault
If it's not the devs fault for leaving out a button prompt then idk who's fault it could be

Jose Parker
Jose Parker

explicit instruction
Tell me where it says "rotate" in Skyrim.

Asher Collins
Asher Collins

menus are puzzles, for smart people
hamhands button masher retard
what's your number, i like you fatties
i'll feed you a gallon

Gabriel Reed
Gabriel Reed

Before we go any further, can you give me the definition of intuitive?
You clearly struggle with simple tasks a child would have no problem completing.

Ethan Lewis
Ethan Lewis

start prompt
CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS HANDHOLDING BULLSHIT FUCKING CASUALS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Carson Sanchez
Carson Sanchez

gets BTFO and starts name calling
I don't have a costanza good enough for this

Aiden Hughes
Aiden Hughes

damn dude that's like 2 tons of irony

Justin Jones
Justin Jones

The intended solution is very simple. Go into your inventory, and look at the claw
See that's a whole smarter solution compared to what I did, and thanks to you I know better for the future. Originally I thought the carvings on the wall were the solution, but after a while just gave up and started doing random inputs and ended up with the solution almost immediately.

Thomas Anderson
Thomas Anderson

Right there.

Gavin Adams
Gavin Adams

I never had to trial and error anything, it was obvious to me from the start that you could click and drag the 3d items in the menu. Me and like 99.9% of everyone else who played Skyrim had no problem with this. You can only do what the screen explicitly tells you to, and anyone who thinks for themself is a hamhanded button mashing retard.

Cameron Powell
Cameron Powell

Super Mario 64
Shitty game design desu, nowhere id they indicate that you need to press a button and drag to deform Mario's face.

The intended method is to read Arvel's journal which clues you in to the claw having the solution.

Anthony Watson
Anthony Watson

he's still going

Nolan Hernandez
Nolan Hernandez

skyrim is tailored for casuals
the majority have no problem with the menus, because they just click randomly anywhere, all the time
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ryder Howard
Ryder Howard

Can you imagine if there was no start prompt, and people were complaining that they couldnt figure out how to start the game? That is what we are dealing with here.

Cameron Edwards
Cameron Edwards

i didn't read the thread
cool beans, there's a whole club

Hunter White
Hunter White

Yeah, thank god the dedicated start button had a prompt.
I hate all these buttons on new controllers, especially the rotate button.

Jason Russell
Jason Russell

Skyrim is tailored to casuals sure. Clicking on things and experimenting does not make you a casual. Being afraid to click on anything unless you have a menu prompt makes you a fucking casual.

Juan Myers
Juan Myers

based PC master race doesn't need instructions on how to do every little thing in a game

Thomas Nguyen
Thomas Nguyen

Its funny, youre trying to make a point, but the right thumbstick literally is a dedicated rotate button.

Were talking about pc though, console actually does list the rotate control.

Hunter Gonzalez
Hunter Gonzalez

Clicking on things and experimenting
how is this possible justification for keeping a simple legend off a menu, with all the other legends in the menu

why is this one omitted?
why is this where you draw the line and the game becomes handholding if it were a prompt

is looking at items an easter egg?
is "figuring out" a menu through "experimentation" a compelling use of the menu to help someone progress in the game?

Andrew Nelson
Andrew Nelson

not thinking of something while experimenting = being afraid
k

Adam Bailey
Adam Bailey

Yeah yeah, didn't think of adding that part to my analogy until after the post
I hate all these buttons on new mice, especially the rotate button
There

Parker Powell
Parker Powell

Clicking and dragging three dimensional objects is a standard PC paradigm.

Jacob Hughes
Jacob Hughes

clicking on 2d text in a menu in order to select it is also one, but skyrim's menu constantly disrespects that

Zachary Perez
Zachary Perez

He's probably a phoneposting consolefag anyway.

Juan Clark
Juan Clark

Youre just supposed to know that clicking and dragging moves objects when you are using a pc. Its not supposed to be a challenge. The rotate control is listed on console, so why is it not listed on pc? Obviously they didnt think people needed to be told how to do that. I didnt need to be told how to do it, im pretty sure a legion of normies didnt need to be told how to rotate, so the real question is why do you? You make it sound hard, but its not hard.

Michael Bailey
Michael Bailey

sorry hamhands, i'm impressed that you can reach around and pat yourself on the back with those thick arms, but your feat of "i figure MENU!!!!!!!! was secret,,," is not so amazing

Blake Adams
Blake Adams

i'm sure you're fucking that up too and it's not actually the games fault

Christopher Sullivan
Christopher Sullivan

This guy just said anyone who clicks on things without a prompt is a ham handed retard, maybe read my posts in context.

Owen Garcia
Owen Garcia

The rotate control is listed on console, so why is it not listed on pc?
probably because the manual designers knew that the menu system was remarkably unintuitive and they wouldn't be able to explain how to access the inspection system in the same sized blurb

go ahead, try to explain it in under 5 words

Joshua White
Joshua White

dude replies to a snide remark with his own snide remark
Thought provoking context right there. My reply to your post remains standing.

Gabriel Kelly
Gabriel Kelly

Click on item and drag

Bitch

Luke Roberts
Luke Roberts

Alternatively: Copy on the PC manual wasn't finished until after the requirement to rotate objects to unlock doors was removed from the game and they took it out of the documentation.

Bentley Richardson
Bentley Richardson

okay so i see a bunch of items in the menu

i "click on the item and drag"
okay, in normal circumstances, i'd expect "click on the item and drag" to allow me to move the item up or down in the list, but when i clicked it, the item just said "that item cannot be equipped"
what is the context of this clicking and dragging, manual designer?

Andrew Fisher
Andrew Fisher

LMB (hold) - rotate item
LMB would be a graphic of course

This shouldnt be needed though, on a pc the mouse is how you reach out and touch things, if you want to see an item from a different angle your first thought should be to reach out and touch the item, not autistically search the menu for instructions.

Camden Green
Camden Green

Oh fuck guys. What do I do? I want to look at it but I can't figure out how to move it around. Why isn't there instructions about how to rotate this?

Christian Young
Christian Young

Dude i dont know, just bash random keys like a ham handed retard! Without clear instructions its the only way!

Evan Perry
Evan Perry

For the legend they're using, I'm not sure that really works. I think it would probably be better if it were one of those pictures with number labelling.

Graphically, a (1) next to Armor rating, then a (2) next to Carry weight, and a (3) over toward the top of the item that could have the label you suggested. As just a menu control alone listed as they are now, I think your suggestion would be misleading.

Lincoln Sanders
Lincoln Sanders

Thats why its not included, its pretty obvious, but if you write it the way i suggested some retard will inevitably click and drag the item name, then go shitpost how item rotation doesnt work. Imo it should just be left out, im sure this was bethesdas train of thought as well, its not worth it to further clutter the menus.

Jayden Lopez
Jayden Lopez

is cluttered really the word for skyrim's menus?
they don't make effective use of space, but that's more a problem of the constricting margins than too much shit in there

if anything, there's not enough

Ryan Jenkins
Ryan Jenkins

To further expand on my post, the menu controls listed perform their function any time their corresponding keys are pressed, but the item will not rotate any time the lmb is pressed and held, because the lmb serves multiple functions depending where you click, so just putting a simple menu prompt for the control would be misleading, you would have to put the prompt somewhere near the 3d item, and at that point you are just adding pointless clutterfor the benefit of only your stupidest userbase.

Sebastian Perry
Sebastian Perry

pirated version
you blame bethesda because you pirated a shit version?

Nicholas Gutierrez
Nicholas Gutierrez

the lmb serves multiple functions depending where you click
Holy shit what? The mouse serves multiple functions? How the fuck are people supposed to know that?

Jonathan Rivera
Jonathan Rivera

Doesnt really matter, if we can just agree that bethesda made a rational decision not to list that particular control, then this conversation can end.

The reasons for not listing that particular control are valid, weve both recognized that its not quite as simple as its been made out to be. I can understand bethesdas thought process behind that design decision, whether i agree with it or not is just a matter of my opinion.

I happen to agree, i dont think a control prompt is nessecary for that, but thats irrelevant, just my opinion.

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