Sonic was never good, Mario is bett-

>Sonic was never good, Mario is bett-

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Complexity isn't always a good thing.

I mean to be fair to Mario, the games are based around shorter, challenge-based "courses," that you're expected to play through in a minute or two.

Sonic has longer and more in-depth stages, but fewer of them.

There's a difference between thinking about spacial awareness, evaluating enemy patterns, adapting to the level design, feeling in control of exploration.

As apposed to just holding down right.

Mario was a platformer, Sonic was the equivalent of a cinematic experience for the 90s. Sonic had better graphics but when it come to gameplay Mario had him beat in every respect.

The platforming challenges are better in mario but its just not as fun. Marios bosses on the other hand are trashtacular and lack variety. Both games are fun in their own way. I play mario when i want some nice platforming and I play sonic when i want a smoother ride in a game with less platforming challenges

Flying over every level sure is fun platforming.

You can't post this argument anymore OP. Everyone knows its biased as fuck when you don't include the underground sections in that Mario level.

Fuck off.

Mario has more levels with less variety between them and less alternate paths
Sonic has less levels with more variety between them and more alternate paths

I always used to think it was clear that Mario was better, but nowadays Mario has become so generic. Every platformer is inspired it and the same level design has been used for years. Meanwhile, sonic has a unique physics system that still hasn't been imitated as well. I think sonic aged better

>Sonic was the equivalent of a cinematic experience for the 90s
Only the trash Sonic 2 and beyond which opted for more boost shit instead of having a nice mix of speed and platforming. Marble Zone is still one of the greatest casual filters out there.

The most contrarian post I've seen a while.

Brainlet
Did you not look at my picture? Go do that.
>cinematic experience
Opinion discarded
Oh yay, more hold right to win but this time the background is different and it's a """shortcut."""

>click image
Why is the bottom of my screen filled with pixelated vomit?

>click image
Why is the top of my screen almost entirely one shade of blue?

If you just hold right you die in the first level

Mario worlds tend to have 6-8 levels in them, sometimes more like SMB3
Sonic has 2 acts with about 3 pathways each

>thinking about spacial awareness, evaluating enemy patterns, adapting to the level design, feeling in control of exploration
Unfortunately, the designers of SMW evidently took none of that into account for the beginning stage.

>Hold right to win

>the first stage out of 60+ is relly easy and simple
you don't say.

Press A retard, that's the only other button the game has.

>tfw to dumb for sonic

Fuck off, SMW couldn't even beat SMB3, no way it's better than Sonic 3&K

Ristar is better than Sonic

Not an argument. All you do in both games is hold right and jump. That's the nature of both games and if you deny this I won't give you more (you)s

most of sonic levels (specially 3d sonic) are rollercoaster where you barely press any buttons, and when you do get to platform you just homming attack over a pit with 3 or 4 enemies and a ring box and that is it.

>SMB3
>better than SMW
reconsider valuable life choices
also
>S3&K and SMW are 3 years apart

SMW is the best platformer in the history of gaming.

When people compare mario to sonic they are NEVER considering the 3D entries of both series since Mario BTFO of literally everyone else.

This
Also awful camera and the bainless ring system to palliate it.

Canabalt is literally the first good Sonic game.

Sonic games are a jumbled mess, similar to megaman

Yeah if you like flying over the majority of the levels and not platforming at all.

>As apposed to just holding down right.
In fairness SMW requires you to tap back to maintain your height with the cape so it's not just holding right.

Otherwise great post. Sonic 3 was a far superior platformer for all the things you said.

Nintendo games have always been overrated.

Super Mario 64 isn't even a platformer

sonic adventure 2 battle is a better game than super mario 64 and also a better game than super mario sunshine
transitively it is also a way better game than super mario galaxy, galaxy 2, 3d land, 3d world, etc, because those are all vastly inferior to 64 and sunshine

sonic was never good. not because it's a platform with a focus on speed, but because its badly designed. one of the most forced memes ever.

Blaming the camera is probably the biggest sign of making excuses for lacking skill, especially for 2D games. I don't even remember people ever complaining about camera systems in 2D games until very recently.

incorrect, sonic was good exactly once
adventure 2 battle is the only good sonic game and is also better than mario which is better than all other sonic games

The rings are there so you can go fast even if you aren't good at the game.

it's shit jim

To be fair, SMW does have the worst level design of all 2D Marios.

notice how much nicer the top half looks

>sonic adventure 2 battle is shit
objectively wrong

Can you explain what's so good about Mario World?

I understand it has great controls, but the
main game never really needs you to become good at mastering them, resulting in many of the levels being completely unmemorable.

>this meme

It's not possible to do that every level, some even have obstacles above the screen to stop the player, furthermore by doing that you are going to miss an important aspect of the game that is finding the secret exits.

>sonic adventure 2 battle is shit with the exception of the Chao Garden

There, now it's objectively correct.

Except sonic is designed to play itself and mario is designed to be played by a player.

Were there really only two special stage rings in Angel Island Act 1? I guess that makes sense but for some reason I swore there were more than that.

Mario World is way harder than Sonic though

>implying you got to the secret levels

You guys just don't understand. Every video game is bad.

Holy shit, stop playing games and get the fuck out.
LMAO adventure fag, geez o man.

Yeah that's why one of the complaints retards have about Sonic CD is that they have to actually navigate through the stages. You know what? fuck it, Sonic deserves to be boost to win shit forever.

>Mario
>Run really fast
>Jump
>Fly to the end of the level
Mario is more braindead than Sonic by a country mile.

Hahaha
Not with those autoscrollers

Yeah, that's one of my gripes about the game, it focuses more on exploring so a lot of the good moments end up being "I found the hole of the key!" rather than the stage having some actual variety.

I dunno if I can argue with that.

>Sonic 3
N O D I F F I C U L T Y my guy

Real casual filter coming through.

>sonic adventure 2 battle is shit with the exception of the Chao Garden
objectively wrong

PC is objectively the best console, because out of everything that can RUN games, only on the PC can you MAKE games (without using any proprietary software in the development process).

At some point as a gamer you realize merely PLAYING games is pointless and there's a higher gaming-related purpose to serve. If you haven't gotten to that point yet, you are not as elite a gamer as myself.

Moral of the story is stop arguing about consoles because if you still even USE consoles and PLAY games then how can you call yourself a REAL gamer.

Wrong.
>boost
>put the controller down because you can while sonic gives you a Cinematic Gaming Experience™ through tunnels and loopy loops
>have absolutely no influence over sonic for approx 1/4th of the level
>game play doesn't complement level design and are in fact as contrary to each other as possible
Sonic is everything wrong with a platformer.

This looks so nice.
And shitendrones keep parroting the MD can't hand transparencies meme.

This is true.

All Sega platforms had poor support for transparencies. Some engineer at Sega must have hated the effect for some reason.

>objectively wrong
Objectively wrong.

>SA2
>better than anything with that camera and controls
put down the crack user

Nah. SA2B's my favorite 3D platformer and the arcade style scoring system elevates it further above anything else I can think of aside Jet Set Radio which also features incredibly fluid movement when you git gud and a nice emphasis on score based gameplay.

SA2's camera is perfectly fine and its controls are perfect aside the mechs which are still alright when you get over their learning curve with regard to maintaining momentum.

Still beats the galaxy games and their agonizingly slow movement by a mile if nothing else.

>SA2B's my favorite
This isn't mutually exclusive with the fact that it's shit.
>3D platformer
You mean 3D rail grinder and homing attack simulator.
>and the arcade style scoring system elevates it further above anything else
You mean above things that actually function as intended? I guess the randomness of whether you'll glitch out and fly out of the level adds some spice to your "skill based" runs.

Oh, it's an ADHD child. That explains it.

>2d mario is faster
>"B-BUT SONIC HAS BETTER EXPLORATION"
>3d mario has better level design
>"GOTTA GO FAST"
why are sonic fans like this

I'm a Sonicfag and always have been, but SA2 isn't better than any of the 3D Mario games. Mayne it's on par with 3D Land. Maybe.

Besides, SA1 is better than 2.

>Glitch out
>In SA2

The game is polished as fuck, user. Shitpost to your heart's content since 3D Sonic's a popular target; but at least get your facts straight.

Now, if you wanna shit on a game for glitches, the SADX port of SA1 is glitch city.

>Besides, SA1 is better than 2.
kek

>Sonic was never good

I'll never forget my first experience with SA1
>dreamcast came out
>SA1 test demo
>play it
>god awful camera
>god awful controls
>watch sonic go fast from a whale as the game plays itself
>walk away as game plays itself

>SA1 is better than 2
SA1 was an unplayable heap of trash
The level design kind of almost had something going for it but the engine was just so bad it made everything else not matter
SA2, and especially SA2B, had vastly improved engines

It plays itself for like ten seconds.

Battle added more glitches. Both GCN ports did.

I agree. The first one was better. Having different perspectives on the story depending on the character you pick was pretty cool. SA2 was just "on to the next stage"

>20 stages vs 70 stages

I would take Mario every day thanks.

No user. Its playing itself because cutscenes are the only way to distract the plkayer form the linear level design.

>SA2, and especially SA2B, had vastly improved engines
And piss-poor, unfocused gameplay.

Both the Adventure games were mediocre at best, but SA2 tried to do too much and succeeded in none of it.

2D Sonic has better exploration and permits you to go much faster if you git gud at working with its physics system and learn the levels.

3D Sonic (specifically the adventure era), provides excellent control over Sonic and the spindash mechanics allow for really interesting movement and jumps you can't do in anything other than an adventure title, but outside of instances such as Red Mountain in SA1 doesn't really make an effort toward doing the whole exploratory platforming in 3D thing. Rather, in SA2 specifically, it works to optimize the gameplay style to work in tandem with the scoring system in order to provide a more linear obstacle course for the player to optimize their time and score across the various mission objectives and stage variations available.

In the context of a comparison to mario; 2D Sonic is more of a direct competitor and arguable superior in some respects while inferior in others.

3D Sonic, or at least the adventure titles aren't really comparable to 3D Mario and given the open level design of the earlier two 3D Mario titles, it's more up to debate as far as which is the better approach. In the context of the more linear platforming offered in the galaxy titles though (which I'd say are a bit fairer of a comparison), I'd say I feel I got more of my money's worth from Sonic Adventure's offerings of 3D platforming than Galaxy 1 or 2 since the greater speed and score focus appeals to me personally. SM64 and Sunshine certainly trump the sonic adventure games in terms of sheer moment to moment control in more precise sequences, but the galaxy games do not due to the more limited control offered via the lack of jump momentum inherent to galaxy and the slower run speed and floatier jumps.

>Calling the Adventure style sonic gameplay a failure

Out with your garbage opinion.

>3D Sonic (specifically the adventure era), provides excellent control over Sonic

>map you'll actually explore
Vs
>map you'll speed through to see roughly 45% of it

It does. Just because it has something of a learning curve doesn't mean it isn't excellent when you get the hang of it.

>2D Sonic has better exploration
Less levels, less challenging, less secrets gameplay is still not as easy to pick up and fluid or even as fast as mario.
>In the context of a comparison to mario; 2D Sonic is more of a direct competitor and arguable superior in some respects while inferior in others.
Objectively wrong.
>3D Sonic, or at least the adventure titles aren't really comparable to 3D Mario
Great. We can end the discussion about it there then as Its a game that HAD to throw in all the extra features because the main sonic game was so boring and bad that Choa Garden was the only reason to pick up the game.

Provide an example.

>Sonic adventure HAD to throw in extra features
>Ignoring that the reason they picked those three styles is that a purely sonic style game is too short and that the other two were well received and brought back as a result

>2D Sonic isn't as easy to pick up as Mario
Not a flaw.

>2D Sonic isn't superior in its level complexity and usage of its physics system to allow for greater and more consistently great speeds when you actually get good at it and exploring the MULTIPLE ROUTES through levels

There. I replied to your bait, just like you wanted user. : )

>Not a flaw.
Bad controls IS a flaw.

Alright. youtube.com/watch?v=ptUj2YDqmbQ

ok user. I'm going to click your video. inb4 sonic is playing himself through half of the level

>no decent slope physics
>sonic games without decent slope physics
>sonic games
>without decent slope physics
>to create an illusion of physics, slopes are handled by fixed path logic
>attempting to deviate from that fixed path causes the slopes to eject you into the void at high velocity
>"a learning curve"

Good thing the games don't have bad controls.

User error isn't a flaw with the game, user. If you fuck up your wavedashes in melee, that's not the game's fault. That's on you. Same idea applies here. The game requires greater learning and more practice in order to play effectively and the rewards are greater for doing so.

It's a design choice that runs in opposition to mario's pick up and play design and I find it more gratifying to succeed in.