Games rating boards can't call loot boxes gambling until the law does

Dylan Davis
Dylan Davis

The legal definition of gambling isn’t decided by games ratings boards, but “by national gambling laws,” Bosmans says. “If something is considered gambling, it needs to follow a very specific set of legislation, which has all kinds of practical consequences for the company that runs it. Therefore, the games that get a PEGI gambling content descriptor either contain content that simulates what is considered gambling, or they contain actual gambling with cash payouts.”

The backlash against loot boxes is growing, thanks to their recent prevalence. Review aggregators OpenCritic recently announced they're looking to capture monetisation information on games, calling it “a stand against loot boxes.” Many gamers reckon they should be defined as gambling (are you among them, or do you disagree? Let us know in the comments.) But unless legislators revise national laws to reflect this, there's little the rating boards can do, even if they want to.

Thoughts?

All urls found in this thread:
https://strawpoll.com/8f4x7wyy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
Sebastian Jones
Sebastian Jones

It's gambling.

Ethan Wright
Ethan Wright

Game rating system is retarded. Fuck you Tipper Gore

Elijah Davis
Elijah Davis

not in the eyes of the law

Kevin Jones
Kevin Jones

Fuck the law, made by kikes.

Jace Williams
Jace Williams

only cash are gambling
if I go to the casino and a slot machine has a jackpot prize of a brand new car then it's not gambling if people drop $1 to pull the lever

Some dumb fucking idiots desu. I like how clearly it's gambling but they're avoiding it because those gambling laws were probably made in an era where electronic video games didn't exist.

Camden Martin
Camden Martin

wow, gambling has a legal definition and lootboxes don't fall under it

who could have seen that coming except for all the people telling you so over and over again

Hudson Brooks
Hudson Brooks

It's not gambling, though they are retarded as shit and I wish they'd go away from my fucking video games.

Ayden Diaz
Ayden Diaz

You're not gambling for actual money so how could anyone even see it that way. You're spending the money regardless even if you get some crazy in game item.

Eli Davis
Eli Davis

so are games

Ayden Carter
Ayden Carter

So if I had a casino, and everyone always won a penny after giving me $10 with the chance for $100 you're telling me thats not gambling as they always get something?

Jason Sanchez
Jason Sanchez

You are basically paying for a randomized digital good that may or not may directly affect game progression

Psychologically it has the same effects as gambling because you will spend lots of money until you get what you want

Liam Rodriguez
Liam Rodriguez

A brand new car has cash value. Pixels in a video game do not. If you let people sell those pixels to other people for cash it gets fuzzy.

Nathan Ward
Nathan Ward

Gambling prizes don't have to be cash.
The digital goods you recieve from loot boxes still have value.

Tyler Evans
Tyler Evans

which youtuber came up with this idea and why are so many idiots parroting it?

Nathan Moore
Nathan Moore

No one is telling you that. You've made an absurd leap of logic.

Landon Smith
Landon Smith

still have value
No they don't unless you're allowed to sell said digital goods.

Nicholas Miller
Nicholas Miller

Pixels in a video game do have value, you're even paying for a chance to get them.

Parker Green
Parker Green

But valve lets you sell those pixels for cash. There are billions of trade sites for it. And even officially supported.

Jackson Watson
Jackson Watson

It's the same as those claw grab machines or basically any similar arcade game. If those are not regulated the same way casinos are regulated you couldn't regulate games either.

Luke Edwards
Luke Edwards

You don't need to be able to trade the digital goods for money for them to be valuable.
Ownership of an item, especially one which has a degree of rarity, is having an object of value.

Jaxson Wright
Jaxson Wright

The digital goods you recieve from loot boxes still have value.

According to whom? that's the problem. If you can't sell the items then they have no value, and even if you can sell them to other players it's hard to argue that a digital item in a game has an intrinsic value. The exception being games where goods and currency are directly tied to real-world currency, like EVE.

Kevin Baker
Kevin Baker

https://strawpoll.com/8f4x7wyy

Really makes me think...

Lucas Taylor
Lucas Taylor

Winning a car isn't a cash prize.

Loot boxes are gambling. Not by the eay the law may try to define it but in its actual principle. You're a an idiot if you don't consider it gambling.

Gambling is not a guarantee to win cash. Gambling is the act of a person taking money or a commodity and dropping it into a game of chance in the hopes of an outcome that is more advantageous than before.

Buying a key in hopes of a unusual is gambling. Opening up a case for a new fun skin is gambling. Same for player skins and all that.

You are spending real world money in order to roll the dice.

Bentley Moore
Bentley Moore

it's gambling.

it's extremely, blatantly gambling.

Luke Martinez
Luke Martinez

What intrinsic value does a hat in TF2 hold?
I can convince someone to pay me $100 for a rock I found in my yard, but I'm not going to be able to make a legal case for that rock being worth $100. An insurance company isn't going to pay me $100 if I lose that rock. A digital item in a video game has even less intrinsic value than that rock, because at least a rock is made of physical material.
I'm not arguing that this is right, I'm just explaining why it's hard to legally define this shit as gambling.

Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson

oh yes, fuck me harder daddy gubbermint. Who needs rights? Who needs self control?

Ryan Anderson
Ryan Anderson

He's using actual logic because this is what the video game publishers want to get away with. They claim it's not gambling because you are guaranteed a prize even if the prize is a fraction of the value of your entry fee.

Colton Moore
Colton Moore

If a game needs loot boxes to be fun then its shit

SHIT i tell you

Jordan Bennett
Jordan Bennett

yeah government regulating an abusive corporate practice that's destroying videogames is really fucking the average user of Sup Forums xD

Samuel Robinson
Samuel Robinson

Winning a car isn't a cash prize.
Yes, it legally has a cash equivalent. Look at the terms of any sweepstakes and you'll see the cash equivalent of every prize listed.

You're a an idiot if you don't consider it gambling.
Sure, I consider it gambling. But the law does not, because unlockable items in games have no intrinsic value unless they're directly tied to real currency in some way.

Carter Richardson
Carter Richardson

Optional gambling.

Brody Baker
Brody Baker

It's not gambling. The house doesn't lose anything even when a player scores a "jackpot". It's the same reason why trading cards aren't gambling.

Gabriel Russell
Gabriel Russell

Claw games require mechanical skill in ways that things like roulette and poker do not. Even if the machine is rigged.

Loot boxes are paying for a chance to randomly win a rare item. It is a slot machine.

Obviously according to the people gambling all their money away on loot boxes, the digital items are valuable you fucking mongoloids.
Go Google a video of somebody unboxing some rare item and flipping their shit, and tell me that the object has no value.
Value is not always synonymous with monetary value, that's why the phrase "monetary value" exists in common usage.

If you can't imagine something being valuable but priceless, you're legitimately autistic.

Eli Cox
Eli Cox

Fucking GamblerGators.

Why don't you take your cringe chanology shit to r/The_Donald?

Fucking toxic problematic racists need to be banned from the internet for not having mature liberal opinions like me.

Bentley Lopez
Bentley Lopez

I am the law

Austin Rodriguez
Austin Rodriguez

You agree to pay for a random item. You pay money, and you receive a random item. No item is more valuable than the rest because NONE of the items have any monetary value.

Once again, no one is arguing that this is a good thing.

Daniel Smith
Daniel Smith

the house never "loses" anything in real gambling neither dumbass

Austin Hill
Austin Hill

What if i convince you to give me 100$ so i can toss a coin, if you call it right you get the rock, if you call it wrong i give you a pebble

In your example you can buy the rock, but you cant buy the stuff you want with loot boxes

Luke Evans
Luke Evans

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HE THINKS THIS IS ABUSIVE!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yes user, a game that someone CHOOSES TO PLAY is totally abusive. Those poor people making a choice! It's too much for them

Elijah Reed
Elijah Reed

Paragraph 3.18 then clarifies that, even though loot boxes or crates or whatever resemble slot machines, loot boxes are not considered gambling unless they contain items with real-world value: "Where prizes are successfully restricted for use solely within the game, such in-game features would not be licensable gambling."

BBBbBbUt TrADINg WeBSITES

"Currently, the Gambling Commission does not class loot boxes as gambling because, in its view, the items obtained from them cannot be exchanged for real-life money. This is an odd position, considering the vast number of third-party sites that let you trade in-game items or currency for real-money."
"Perhaps the most important part of the Gambling Commission's position paper, however, is in paragraph 3.20: "On occasions where serious concern exists under those criteria we are clear that primary responsibility lies with those operating the unlicensed gambling websites. However, we will also liaise with games publishers and/or network operators who may unintentionally be enabling the criminal activity."
In summary, loot boxes are in of themselves not gambling. But as soon as a third-party website gets involved, they are. But who's to blame for this unlicensed gambling? According to the Gambling Commission's position paper, it's the third-party websites who are to blame [...]

Educate yourselves, lootboxes aren't gambling.

Ethan Rivera
Ethan Rivera

dude children gambling is awesome lmao

Aaron Adams
Aaron Adams

The house does lose something.
They have a stock supply of digital goods which have a value almost entirely dictated by their rarity and scarcity.
If everybody unboxed a high value rare item, the worth of that item would decrease and the house would technically lose that value on their stock supply.

Just because the supply is digital and can be expanded or reduced at a whim doesn't mean economic principles stop applying locally

Jackson Clark
Jackson Clark

Well gambling is also a choice, the loot box sistem is sustained by retards and their bad choices, just as real life gambling

Jaxson Kelly
Jaxson Kelly

Better ban those pokemon trading cards.

Jayden Watson
Jayden Watson

the Gambling Commission does not class loot boxes as gambling because, in its view, the items obtained from them cannot be exchanged for real-life money.

ebay "overwatch skins account"

Jaxon Stewart
Jaxon Stewart

user, you're literally asking for legislators to legally define the value of feelings.

Charles Davis
Charles Davis

Fuck off, libertarian kike.

James King
James King

Doesnt that only aplies to a finite resource?

Jack Parker
Jack Parker

"Currently, the Gambling Commission does not class loot boxes as gambling because, in its view, the items obtained from them cannot be exchanged for real-life money.

This is false, you can sell your account to other people

Caleb Barnes
Caleb Barnes

Acquire some reading comprehension.
They aren't legally seen as gambling, that's a fact, that's not the question here you retard.
The question is whether they actually are gambling and the law should be changed.

Chase Davis
Chase Davis

Laws can be changed.

Cooper Hernandez
Cooper Hernandez

And I have to risk the government cracking down on video games because of that?
Like, you people do realize it won't stop there, right?

Noah White
Noah White

just implement the chinese buffer that has to show the % chance of obtaining the stuff inside. Problem solved

Joshua Martinez
Joshua Martinez

That's gambling because the rock is more valuable than the pebble. No unlockable item in a game is more valuable than any other, because legally they're all 100% worthless.

Joseph Wilson
Joseph Wilson

Calm down, shadow.

Adam Butler
Adam Butler

didn't know mentally ill whales were specifically targeted and stalked by marketing to encourage them to spend as much money as possible in a single purchase over and over again.

when you buy cards you go in the shop and leave. the lootbox buy button is ever-present in the game, and usually very big and shiny.

not to mention parents have much greater control over what their kids buy in a physical store. when the kid is online they're usually less interested and dont realize how much the child spends.

Mason Butler
Mason Butler

which have a value

According to whom?

Blake Hill
Blake Hill

Why can't leftists read the rest of reasonable posts they reply to?

Andrew Cooper
Andrew Cooper

is buying packs of magic the gathering or yugioh cards legally considered gambling? what about those little blind bags of figurines you can get at the store?
besides, who even cares? even if it is gambling what's the problem? if you don't want to get ripped off then don't gamble

Camden Rodriguez
Camden Rodriguez

The part that I think baffles me the most is that there are people who actually care enough to spend real money to get minor cosmetic bullshit in a game

Levi Adams
Levi Adams

Why don't you read the rest of the post? It's not the company's fault if you decide to do illegal shit behind their backs, like using third party trading websites or selling your account, which the ToU doesn't allow.

Cooper Moore
Cooper Moore

What would goverment involvement in these cases would cause exactly? I literaly dont know

Camden Miller
Camden Miller

dude it's the 3rd party's fault

doesnt matter anyway. the kids are still gambling with real money. even if they couldnt sell their accounts on black markets (which they always will be able to), it should still be banned.

Evan Carter
Evan Carter

None of those are considered gambling because the contents have the same intrinsic value. Just like loot boxes.

Dominic Ross
Dominic Ross

It's not feelings, it's actual value.
I'm asking legislators to acknowledge that people already treat loot boxes like slot machines, so maybe they should be regulated like them.

Gambling isn't about money out, it's about money in.
Whether the payout is monetary or not, the money in and the chemical payoff for the gambler is the same.

Andrew Ramirez
Andrew Ramirez

There isn't a problem. Sup Forums is pretending to be a bunch of fascists because /pol/.
Remember, your rights end where their feelings begin.

Owen Nelson
Owen Nelson

ban da boxes more laws nao!!1

Sebastian Reyes
Sebastian Reyes

They aren't gambling, as explained by the definition of what gambling is AND they aren't seen as gambling by the law.

Cooper Wright
Cooper Wright

facts don't matter because I know I'm right

Okay.

Lincoln Wood
Lincoln Wood

Only because people are stupid. If I go to the casino, play a hand and win $1 and walk away, the house has lost. The reason casinos make money is because people are too stupid to walk away.

Logan Morris
Logan Morris

"""facts"""

she lost sweetheart. commit suicide any day.

Elijah Reed
Elijah Reed

it's actual value

What? You literally just said that it has value because of people "flipping their shit" when they get it. What is the "actual value" of "a thing that makes you flip your shit"?

Brandon Davis
Brandon Davis

The reason casinos make money is because of money laundering.

Logan Cruz
Logan Cruz

No because technically cards can be traded and resold. And you buy packs not for a chance to win a rare card but to make your playing deck stronger.

Every random fig in a blind bag has equal value. And usually you can feel the bags to find out what figure is inside. If you buy one it's not like there's a chance of getting a more or less valuable fig. You get one of the available characters, even if it's not your favorite.

Now loot boxes are different because the items may not have different monetary values but they do have value to the players. Players would rather have legendary skins from their dice roll than stickers or sprays which are considered to be useless (I don't play over watch but I can only assume comparing it to dota 2).

Easton Lewis
Easton Lewis

"I don't like this shit, shouldn't it be illegal?!"
reasonable explanation why it shouldn't
"B-But that's not right!!"
reasonable explanation why it is
"WOULD SOMEBODY JUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN"

Everytime

Aiden Wood
Aiden Wood

both sides of the argument calling the other leftists

Owen Lewis
Owen Lewis

That's the problem, we don't know. One day the government could just decide that violent video games need to go. What's scary about this is Sup Forums is using the exact same points to justify banning games outright.

It's EXPLOITATIVE! Video games enable addictive behavior!
Video games could potentially harm you!
Think of the children!
Democracy doesn't work anymore! People need to be restricted!

Anthony Martinez
Anthony Martinez

see

Connor Turner
Connor Turner

The answer is clear, we need to make loot box slots and sell them to Vegas.

Hunter Reed
Hunter Reed

Outdated definitions and outdated laws decided upon when there was no such thing as loot boxes might need to be updated to include them.

People value digital goods just as much as they do material goods.
Why else are there third party buy/sell websites?

Jacob Scott
Jacob Scott

Outdated definitions and outdated laws decided upon when there was no such thing as automatic rifles might need to be updated to include them.

Leo Turner
Leo Turner

Leftists ask for more government regulations and bans. Conservatives usually don't.

Jaxson Robinson
Jaxson Robinson

What is your point?
We've had automatic weapons for literally over 100 years now.

Xavier Kelly
Xavier Kelly

there were automatic rifles when the second amendment was written tho

Ryan Cox
Ryan Cox

butthurt libtard that doesn't understand the 2nd amendment detected

i knew the people shilling for lootboxes were #ForHer. so bitter we won the culture war

Gabriel Taylor
Gabriel Taylor

cards can be traded and resold

So can skins and hats in TF2 and CSGO.

Hudson Mitchell
Hudson Mitchell

Great, I guess piracy is legal because digital goods don't have value.

Hudson Nguyen
Hudson Nguyen

Retards and their gambling logic
Hurr I've been dumping coins in this machine for three hours, so it's due to pay out big any minute now!

Ryder Murphy
Ryder Murphy

Finally you fucking Poorfags will stay away from my videogames, i hope they enforce laws towards piracy so you don't touch them anymore.

Jack Richardson
Jack Richardson

Learn to read you dunce.
I didn't say that people flipping their shit gave anything value, I said that it's fucking obvious that digital goods are valuable, and you can observe this fact by looking at how much people value them.
Are you saying people don't treat digital objects like they have value? Because that's fucking retarded.

Adam Walker
Adam Walker

But not in consoles games. Not sure how the blizzard system works.

Tyler Russell
Tyler Russell

he is poor
get a different hobby then

Christopher Price
Christopher Price

Good luck getting The US Government to do literally anything naming a fucking post office

Adam Morgan
Adam Morgan

A digital copy of a video game has value. The publisher sets a price and it costs that much money to purchase. The items in a loot box do not have any monetary value attached to them. They're simply unlocked in the game. One way to unlock a random item is to buy a loot box. It's stupid, but that's the way it is.

Ethan Peterson
Ethan Peterson

On this reservation, I am the law
BIRR NIRR NIRR NIRR

Sebastian White
Sebastian White

digital goods are valuable, and you can observe this fact by looking at how much people value them.

Okay, what's the value of a cosmetic item in Overwatch? We're gonna need to know that if we're gonna make a law about it.

Matthew Fisher
Matthew Fisher

hurr it's not gambling because law doesn't say so XDD
oh geeze oh man, if only there was a way to change the law. If only there was a group of people you could call who could draft legal papers and do as you ask.
A...congress of sorts...run by people who represent you. Damn I really wish we had something like that to change these pesky ironclad legal definitions

Jonathan Fisher
Jonathan Fisher

Conservatives usually don't.

Nice qualifier there to cover your ass

Luis Cruz
Luis Cruz

Depends on how rare it is.
You don't need to define the worth of every possible digital item, you just need to define digital goods as being able to be valuable in the first place, and then digital gambling can actually be fucking labelled and discussed as gambling because that's what it is.

Carter Wright
Carter Wright

this is GAMBLING
actually, from a legal perspective it's not
but it's still GAMBLING
okay

No one is arguing that a law can't be changed, user.

Liam Turner
Liam Turner

yeah dude fuck the govt let's just have anarchy 24/7 woo no rules

Joshua Torres
Joshua Torres

What I don't understand is, aren't loot boxes technically just raffles?

Jacob Ward
Jacob Ward

IIRC raffles are generally considered a type of gambling if you have to pay to enter.

Lucas Ramirez
Lucas Ramirez

Because a legal definition is not the sole definition of something you fucking retard troglodyte. The reason why lootboxes are still gambling despite what the law says is specifically because it falls under the fucking dictionary definition of gambling.
What the law defines as gambling is irrelevant because it can be changed on a whim so saying "durr not gambling" isn't a fucking argument. I genuinely hope you die

Julian Thomas
Julian Thomas

Show me one (1) single leftist that wants a small government. I can show you many conservatives. Big government is inherently leftist in nature and when you want more regulations you want big government.

Kevin Cooper
Kevin Cooper

US law defines gambling as a wager for money or an item of value. What's the value of an unlockable digital good? You can't just say "it has value" without being able to define that value in some way. You might be able to make a case that it has emotional value, but what evidence would you use to support that?

I'm just trying to explain why this is a complicated thing to regulate.

Jason Myers
Jason Myers

I would assume that blind toy bags and card.games NEED to be bought to be enjoyed, while loot boxed offer mundane comodities, you can play the game without them, but thats not the case with the latter

Joseph Morgan
Joseph Morgan

Game critics just need to agree to universally give zeros to any game with loot boxes no matter the quality of the rest of the game

Dylan Perry
Dylan Perry

dont you fucking dare involving the state in this shit, the power is with the market, if you dont like this shit in your games stop buying them

if you start involving the state and they start regulating games, say bye to the video games future, the state will start regulating more and more, some weird anitas or jack thompsons will be appointed to some backwards state run department of vidya and start putting quotas on stuff or regulate how many tiddies can be in games and what not

Isaac Reyes
Isaac Reyes

Depends on how rare it is.

It depends even more strongly on the opinion of the individual who possesses it.

I might have a rare thing, but if I personally find it useless/ugly and I cannot trade it to someone else to get something I want in return, then it IS worthless to me despite being rare.

people who own the cosmetics are who decide what they're worth, not the system that rewarded them or the government. they aren't items that have a fixed dollar value.

Josiah Flores
Josiah Flores

think a little harder about this. Apply yourself.

Jordan James
Jordan James

What's the value of an unlockable digital good?

Look at the Steam marketplace. There's inherent value in all those items

Nicholas Thompson
Nicholas Thompson

Some lootboxes offer items with direct gameplay value.
Some are only cosmetic, but in an industry where cosmetic items are regularly listed on cash shops, I fucking dare you to tell me that cosmetic digital items do not have value.

Yeah and some people don't really care about money, does that mean my dollar is worth more or less than yours?

Christopher Reyes
Christopher Reyes

Okay, you have something there. Things being sold on the Steam marketplace have an established market value, which should probably be good enough.

But what about games that don't let you sell items?

Mason Bailey
Mason Bailey

if you start involving the state and they start regulating games, say bye to the video games future, the state will start regulating more and more

desperate fearmongering from buttblasted kike shill

Gavin James
Gavin James

So do local businesses and churches etc have to contact the NGB or something or do they just kind of overlook it

Austin Torres
Austin Torres

Games rating boards can't call loot boxes gambling until the law does

You fucking what?

Parker Hill
Parker Hill

What does it matter if "the game doesn't let you"? I can sell the device it's on or all manner of methods to sell whatever I'm giving out. To continue other guys' car example, is my casino suddenly not gambling if I put a disclaimer on the car that says "not for resale"?

Bentley Martin
Bentley Martin

buying loot boxes
caring about people who buy loot boxes

It must be so tiring to make everything about you

Parker Foster
Parker Foster

cosmetic items are regularly listed on cash shops

If it's sold on a cash shop then it has a very clearly defined value. I can't think of any game with loot box items that are sold on a cash shop, or that are unobtainable by other means. They're just unlockable items freely available in the game.

Josiah Carter
Josiah Carter

No, just change the rules so they are not abused.

Sebastian Diaz
Sebastian Diaz

u ever saw the state finish a job and say, yeah okay we dont need department X or bureau of Y anymore, lets close it down?

Dominic Flores
Dominic Flores

The car still has a value defined by the manufacturer and the market. How do you define the market value of an item that has never been, and can never be sold?

Michael Cooper
Michael Cooper

Thank god you're not one of them, because that would be unprofessional as fuck. Let me guess, you're not 18+ are you?

Lucas Carter
Lucas Carter

A brand new car has cash value.
Pixels in a video game do not.
That's where you're fucking wrong kiddo.

Noah Garcia
Noah Garcia

What kind of moron would rather buy lootboxes to get something he likes rather than just buying it

Owen Davis
Owen Davis

My point is that it's fucking obvious that digital items are worth something. All digital items are, in some respect, worth something.
Not being able to directly trade them for dollar bills doesn't make them not valuable items.

Ayden Edwards
Ayden Edwards

you ever made a cogent and pertinent point in an argument before?

Jayden Myers
Jayden Myers

I'm not sure how it works on that type of low level, but the big ones have to be licensed and regulated.

Lincoln Brooks
Lincoln Brooks

It doesn't matter what the fuck the law says, gambling is gambling and loot boxes are gambling. Law doesn't get to define common sense concepts.

All people who put loot boxes in non-free games need to die.

Aiden Howard
Aiden Howard

yes
involve the state in regulating vidya say goodbye to indie games and new creative video games

William Collins
William Collins

I can convince someone to pay me $100 for a rock I found in my yard, but I'm not going to be able to make a legal case for that rock being worth $100.
If you can prove repeated customers and market value then yes you fucking can make a legal case for that rock being worth $100. Your analogy over a single fluke sell is retarded and not at all similar to TF2 hats which have a market value.

Brayden Morris
Brayden Morris

It doesn't matter what the fuck the law says, gambling is gambling and loot boxes are gambling

So reasonable, I guess we have to listen to what such a mature person has to say on the subject.

Mason Fisher
Mason Fisher

It's not indie games that would be affected by regulating loot boxes, come up with a new argument.

Ayden Thomas
Ayden Thomas

All digital items are, in some respect, worth something.
And yet not a single person in this thread has provided evidence of this, which is what you're going to need if you want to write a law.

I think that loot boxes are gambling. I think that they're a shitty practice. It's still really fucking hard to develop a legal case for this.

Nathan Rivera
Nathan Rivera

govt tells companies to stop aiming gambling at children
"WTF ALL INDIE GAMES WILL DIE NOW"

retard

Justin Wright
Justin Wright

Only fucking brainlets buy loot boxes

Leo Flores
Leo Flores

As has been already pointed out several times in this thread, yes, it can be argued that TF2 hats have a market value. Many games with loot boxes have no means of reselling items.

Joseph Harris
Joseph Harris

People care because they are ruining games that they want to play. You can't even argue "but it's only cosmetics!" anymore, since now SW: Battlefront 2 (2) and Shadow of War have loot boxes that give you actual in-game advantages. It's only going to get worse if consumers never stop supporting the practice.

Cameron Adams
Cameron Adams

would a $1 lottery ticket be gambling if you were guaranteed to win two cents?

the only discrepancy between loot boxes and lottery tickets are that it's items vs money, but the items are so useless on the low end they might as well be nothing.

Henry Lee
Henry Lee

you re a dum dum
like i said first they will start regulating one thing, then put other restrictions in place that will kill new and upcoming studios

all you do is shift the focus, its a never ending cycle of catch-up, regulating alcohol really worked out well!

Michael Powell
Michael Powell

Are people actually defending lootboxes in this board?
What the fuck has happened? Where am I?

Nicholas Edwards
Nicholas Edwards

If digital items aren't worth something, why is piracy illegal?
Why do people pay for them if they don't have a worth?
The evidence is to use your brain.

Nolan Lee
Nolan Lee

Think of the chilluns
>>>/bradycampaign/

Liam Bell
Liam Bell

Legally, it isn't gambling. In the scenario this changes and purchasing digital goods with varied and somewhat random content does become a form of gambling that requires age restrictions (because that's the most likely scenario, there's very little chance they will stop them entirely), what is solved? A smaller fraction of kids have access to it? Gotta question how those kids are purchasing the loot boxes, seems like a parental problem not being addressed. Don't give them your card details or leave them on their device?
I'd love to see lootboxes gone, but there's currently not much that can be done about them all the time adults are choosing to buy them and parents are shit at keeping their money from their kids.

Cooper Morris
Cooper Morris

So these are gambling?

Colton Young
Colton Young

in most non valve games the items are bound to your account, so the only way to sell the items is by selling accounts
and selling accounts is a bannable offense

Owen Thomas
Owen Thomas

literally slippery slope argument
Regulating one thing does not mean regulating everything.

Also, regulating is not the same thing as banning, alcohol is regulated right now you fucking retard.

Luke Perez
Luke Perez

It's not gambling because you still get an item, it's more similare to mystery gift that you can buy in stores

Tyler Sanchez
Tyler Sanchez

state is now responsible for children
instead of the parents
wew dude

state regulates loot boxes
then rare skins or decals in general
then deluxe editions
then dlc and expansions
then redefines what qualifies a game or not
somethings gonna happen to early access
state sets up bureau of vidya, gives out licenses for studios or else programming vidya is illegal
you could be portraying ISIS or nazi material after all, good that daddy state has a careful eye on it
small studios cant afford license, NEED to sign deals with huge companies or just drop the development entirely, or do it illegaly
i love laws

Andrew Anderson
Andrew Anderson

Lootboxs are fine, you don't have to pay for them. It's actually pretty thrilling to win content. You win some and lose some, it evens out over time.

Thomas Butler
Thomas Butler

If you steal a painting, you can't sell it anywhere legally because it's stolen. The only places that will buy it from you are places that illegally buy things.

Does that mean the painting is worthless?

You do not need to be able to sell something legally, or even sell something at all, for it to be an object of worth.

Isaiah Baker
Isaiah Baker

Does it form the same addiction as gambling?
Does it trap dumb people in the gamblers fallacy?
Does it require real world money?
There is something called the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law.

Leo Johnson
Leo Johnson

No one is saying that ALL digital items have no value. We're talking about loot boxes, user. Some games let you resell items from loot boxes. It can be argued that those items have a market value. Most games do not. Those are the items that have no well-defined value.

Tyler Allen
Tyler Allen

the state is responsible for protecting people from drug imports, moron. lootbox gambling is a vice that must be regulated by the government.

Easton Ramirez
Easton Ramirez

so the state should do what, set a quota of the success rate of getting rare loot? how does that fix your "think of the children argument"?

force blizzard to take the boxes out of the game?

make the game 21+ ?

David Cooper
David Cooper

Whether the value is well-defined is irrelevant. They're undeniably objects that HAVE a value.

Noah Fisher
Noah Fisher

This is not TECHNICALLY gambling but its just as cancerous and preys on the same addictive brain pathways.

It needs to fuck off. Review bombing

Isaiah Long
Isaiah Long

This dumb argument should be stickied in every thread so that hopefully one of the many lefties like you can think about value, pricing and gambling instead of posting literal feces like this. It doesn't work that way.

Jason Flores
Jason Flores

government regulation is the only way to make it less prominent

Grayson Torres
Grayson Torres

loot boxes are drugs
ok ok i will concede my argument if you agree that video games also cause violence and turn people sexist

Nathan Scott
Nathan Scott

Define loot boxes as gambling, so that games which feature them can be rated as containing gambling.

It's not a big deal overall, it's not going to change much, but
the fact that anybody thinks that loot boxes shouldn't be rated as gambling is fucking ridiculous.

Juan Mitchell
Juan Mitchell

video games also cause violence and turn people sexist

all studies indicate that that is not the case

people are violent if they are niggers. it's genetic.

Isaac Gray
Isaac Gray

It doesn't fucking matter whether it's legal or not. If you can sell an item for money you can say that it has value. If you can show that an account with a certain item sells for more than an account without that item then congratulations, you can say that that item has value! Granted, you're not going to be able to legally regulate something that can't legally be sold.

Jose Johnson
Jose Johnson

or you could just, not engage with it
whats with people boner for government, do you really think the people in the government are some kind of virtuous and morally pure beings?

Ayden Morales
Ayden Morales

a stock supply of digital goods which have a value almost entirely dictated by their rarity and scarcity.
digital goods
rarity and scarcity
I want you to think long and hard about this.

Landon Powell
Landon Powell

They're undeniably objects that HAVE a value.

Then for the 1,000,000th time, what's the value of an unlockable cosmetic item in Overwatch? What evidence do you have that it has a value?

Carson Baker
Carson Baker

For literally every game that has items attached to your account, you can sell the account somewhere.

Jack Cruz
Jack Cruz

do you really think the people in the government are some kind of virtuous and morally pure beings?

well they're definitely not if they're demoturds lmfao

Julian Adams
Julian Adams

Photons are not physical
You son of a bitch take that back! Photons are particles that can impart energy thereby they are real and physical! I fight you!

Eli Baker
Eli Baker

That's not how it works.

Christian Watson
Christian Watson

yes. yes and yes.

Lincoln Nguyen
Lincoln Nguyen

No, in his fairy tale scenario, the kids will look at the % and instead of buying loot boxes they will think of the complexities of randomness in the material universe and write essays about how odds can mean different things to different people.

Lincoln Murphy
Lincoln Murphy

open a casino
"everyone's a winner"
give someone a penny every time they lose regardless of what they put in
suddenly not gambling because you get something back no matter what

Injun casinos btfo, the white man is coming

Cameron Myers
Cameron Myers

Why do I need to tell you the value? How should I report it, in dollars? Why does the value need to be reported in dollars?

My evidence is pretty simple: people treat the objects fucking indistinguishably from how they treat objects with value. You don't need to be able to calculate the value to ascertain that it exists.
What argument do you have that they contain no value?

Jonathan Foster
Jonathan Foster

according to you the government should ban the art gallery from displaying paintings because thieves are stealing them and making money off them

Jaxson Kelly
Jaxson Kelly

Alright, well if those sales are legal and you can show that cosmetic items add value to the account, then you have a case for changing the legal definition of gambling to include these items! If the sales aren't legal, then it's a bit like trying to sue someone for stealing your cocaine. You're not going to legally regulate something based on evidence from illegal sales.

Jack Allen
Jack Allen

fuck lootboses.

William Miller
William Miller

or yknow realize "hey mom can i have ten bucks so i can get a bunch of lootboxes?" wont work forever and they should just stop wasting money and play the damn game and use the money they save to get another damn game

Jaxon Turner
Jaxon Turner

So it causes harm. just makes sense really

Aaron Fisher
Aaron Fisher

They found a loophole for that, in which they sell a key/virtual currency instead of the lootbox itself

Ryder Lewis
Ryder Lewis

Only because the laws predate lootboxes. Laws can be changed.

Jordan Phillips
Jordan Phillips

Nowhere was anything like that said. You're spreading your ass cheeks and shitting out posts now.

Noah Howard
Noah Howard

Yeah, kids are notorious for their critical thinking skills. What's the plan for when they simply ignore the information, like they do with everything else?

Brayden Edwards
Brayden Edwards

it's the worst type of gambling. they don't reveal the odds and you can't cash out without giving away your entire account.

Ian Collins
Ian Collins

our courts wont allow for a loophole like that

Dominic Watson
Dominic Watson

Accounts with more valuable items on them are worth more money, clearly. Obviously they are, to anybody with a functioning brain.

The entire point of this whole discussion is to argue whether digital goods are valuable, where the fuck are you going with this.

Asher Carter
Asher Carter

people treat the objects fucking indistinguishably from how they treat objects with value.
Okay, good luck passing legislation based on "emotional value".

What argument do you have that they contain no value?
A lack of arguments that they do. You may be familiar with the concept of "the burden of proof".

Jason Bennett
Jason Bennett

instead of bitching for the government to ban lootboxes why don't people just stop being pussies and refuse to buy them or play games with them?

Brody Russell
Brody Russell

This is subjective value, which is not what the other Anons are talking about from what I can gather. Subjective value can sometimes form a decent pricing system and function in its own sort of economy, much like TCGs where value is determined by rarity and/or usefulness.
With digital items, you would need to find a way to assign a value to them in some way. Either by a secondary market, or by determining the cost associated with it. Say you can't resell it because there's no legal market (you can sell it based only on subjective value in that case), then you can only attempt the latter. With those items holding no direct relation to a legal currency, it's pretty difficult to do and would likely be inaccurate.

Connor King
Connor King

If it looks like shit, smells like shit, comes out of an ass, and people treat it like shit, it's obviously shit.
I don't need to check the chemical composition of every turd on the road to make a law that says don't shit on the street.

Joseph Price
Joseph Price

because for every 1 person that doesn't, 20 buy them

Jaxson Hernandez
Jaxson Hernandez

which has all kinds of practical consequences for the company that runs it.
This is exactly why people want them to be classified as such.

Jaxon Hall
Jaxon Hall

they're objects that people pay for, how could they possibly not have any value?

Noah Cooper
Noah Cooper

where the fuck are you going with this.
It's called "agreement", user. Something that occasionally happens at the end of a discussion, though it's a pretty foreign concept here.

Isaac Jenkins
Isaac Jenkins

Imagine this scenario

someone approaches you and says
hey, give me $5 and I'll give you something
you reply
Hmm, will I get something good, something I like?
the person answers
No, you'll get something no matter what and it might even be valuable to you, but I can't say what it'll be and you won't be able to legally sell it, only destroy it
you say no thanks and walk away

Whoooooooah, the government didn't even need to regulate it... Fantastic...

Ryder Miller
Ryder Miller

because for every 1 person that doesnt, 20 do.
Try 50+ the world is filled with dipshits that want to waste money

Carter Clark
Carter Clark

I'm with this, if you faggots are too stupid to not buy this, then I think I should have the right to exploit every dumb fuck that doesn't realize what it is. Lootboxes look like easy money and fuck you faggots for not trying to get a piece of the idiot pie

Kayden Williams
Kayden Williams

Are digital goods valuable? Yes or no.

Daniel Evans
Daniel Evans

You pay for the loot box. The loot box contains a random, freely unlockable item. You don't pay for that item, you pay for the box.

Andrew Foster
Andrew Foster

this

Colton Roberts
Colton Roberts

don't like loot boxes
buy them anyway
really gets my noggin joggin

Oliver Bell
Oliver Bell

If you can show that they have a market value, yes. It doesn't matter what any of us says, it matters what the evidence shows. Additionally, if we're talking about the context of legally regulating loot boxes, then to be legal value it has to be based on evidence from legal transactions.

Connor Sanchez
Connor Sanchez

The items in the box aren't freely unlockable, you can only get them through random chance by paying for a loot box.
You're just trying to abstract the issue.

Isaiah Martin
Isaiah Martin

It is and it isn't. Personally I think it should get it's own name to make it distinct but I feel like it would also lose some of the stigma with that so not really sure if it's a good idea or not. Either way it's cancer that needs to go.

Hudson Stewart
Hudson Stewart

the government didn't even need to regulate it
is the argument to regulate it, or just label it as gambling?

I thought we were just trying to call a spade a spade.

Matthew Phillips
Matthew Phillips

Why does that thing need to go away then if the majority enjoys it, it's not harmful to you and it isn't illegal?

Shouldn't you just move on instead?

Gabriel Smith
Gabriel Smith

WE NEED THE GOV TO REGULATE COMPANIES TO BE INTO GREEN ENERGY!
trump pulls out of the paris agreement
all big companies jump up to virtue signal
yes indeed we will keep striving to be working with green energy no matter what ha ha yes!
its almost like the gov wasnt needed

Bentley Brown
Bentley Brown

Like I give a fuck.

This shitty industry needs to crash and burn already and if that's the end result of excising the cancer then the industry is already too far gone to save.

Jordan Bell
Jordan Bell

This is exactly how Japan evades gaming law too. You don't win money at pachinko, you win toys. You then sell those toys for money next door.

Xavier Bailey
Xavier Bailey

Name one game where the items in loot boxes aren't freely available through other means. That's part of the loophole that lets them get away with not calling it gambling.

Jordan Scott
Jordan Scott

Assume that the people complaining make up 30% of the consumer market, and those people stop buying the games. You still have 70% willing to endure it, right? Of those 70%, I couldn't throw out a bullshit number representing those that buy lootboxes, but I could comfortably assume they're spending at least the same amount that the 30% would have spent on the game. What's stopping devs from doubling down and attempting to shut more behind lootboxes in order to gain more money? The fear of fewer purchased copies? If that was a concern we'd have seen the impact of it, which seems to indicate they make enough money to compensate for more than they're losing from non-buyers.

Blake Sullivan
Blake Sullivan

People will pay for them, therefore they have market value.

Joshua Adams
Joshua Adams

It will be harmful when new releases have gutted content shoved in lootboxes if it keeps up
it's only a matter of time

Ayden Myers
Ayden Myers

People are asking that lootboxes are labeled gambling so that the government can regulate it.

Adrian Young
Adrian Young

fuck all of you i want the state to crack down on everything juzst because im a butt blasted edgy faggot that wants everything to be burned to the ground yes i hate this wooooorld
u sound like pic related

Andrew Myers
Andrew Myers

thats the thing though. it IS illegal because it literally does the same shit gambling does. the majority of people LOVE gambling and go to casinos all the time. but its REGULATED and LEGAL. lootboxes however are NOT regulated yet act almost exactly like gambling which IS illegal.

Charles Davis
Charles Davis

Get ready for a storm of Against votes because you linked this here.

Ian Mitchell
Ian Mitchell

The fact that those arguments have worked in the past against games is exactly why they are being used here. Why not use a strategy that has worked in the past against games to reach their own ends?

Chase Sullivan
Chase Sullivan

It's not harmful to you because you're not for ed to buy a game. You can just move on.

Leo Phillips
Leo Phillips

Love it, idiots and sheep everywhere ready for a money harvest.

Luis Parker
Luis Parker

The issue is more that the ratings boards aren't legally ALLOWED to label it as gambling unless it fits the legal definition of gambling, which it currently does not.

Kayden Clark
Kayden Clark

Nu-/v/ isn't just a meme.

Gabriel Murphy
Gabriel Murphy

tumblr filename
hating on hatred

wew go back nigger

Jacob Butler
Jacob Butler

Not being able to afford or give enough of a shit to buy cancerous lootboxes is the same as being poor
Begone shills

Jackson Lewis
Jackson Lewis

Using loopholes to get around overly specific definitions is literally, by definition, exploiting a loophole.

To answer your question, basically every game that has lootboxes.
Unless there is a cash shop that lists the loot box rewards for a defined value (in a currency that does not also require purchasing loot boxes), it's not freely unlockable.

Logan Wright
Logan Wright

I'm pretty sure they're just trying to explain how it's avoiding the title of gambling, I doubt anybody wants to keep this shit around.

Carter Ross
Carter Ross

Things wrong with your post:

- the majority of people doesn't engage with gambling
- You contradict yourself. For reasons already stated, lootboxes don't do the same shit as gambling. They might RESEMBLE gambling, but they're not gambling, something ESRB, PEGI, many developers, fans and the government agree on

Bentley Carter
Bentley Carter

I think the threat of your third suggestion is what people want to happen so that companies might feel compelled to do the second. They think companies might think twice about adding a system like that if it's going to shoot up the rating of the game. Especially if it goes to 21+ and becomes AO. Automatically is taken out of consideration for consoles and basically becomes steam only.

Parker Wood
Parker Wood

I aspire to make money and I like options. I don't mind microtransactions/lootboxes because I intend to use them.

Caleb Evans
Caleb Evans

defending the modern game industry

What has Sup Forums become?

Alexander Moore
Alexander Moore

freely unlockable

Sorry, I don't mean freely unlockable as in "you can unlock it whenever you want", I mean unlockable for free. Loot boxes give you items that are otherwise available for free as random unlocks. I can't think of any game where this isn't the case, but please correct me if I'm missing a game.

Benjamin Jackson
Benjamin Jackson

How is it gambling if they're free?

Parker Nguyen
Parker Nguyen

CS:GO
You can't get any skins without buying a $2.50 key

Juan Davis
Juan Davis

It's gambling, optional gambling though.

Kevin Sullivan
Kevin Sullivan

Typically loot boxes contain lootbox-exclusive rare items, or there exists some items which are only acquirable by purchasing loot boxes, that's why seasonal and event-related loot boxes exist.

Adrian Long
Adrian Long

You unlock a skin every time you rank up, user.

Now, you're right, I'm pretty sure there are skins that are only available in cases. But I think they get around that because you can sell or trade the skins you receive for free to obtain the ones that are exclusive to the cases without spending money.

Brody Morgan
Brody Morgan

The only time lootboxes aren't considered gambling is if you can't buy them. It wasn't really a problem in Overwatch because you got a lootbox for account levels. But in Valve games you need to buy a key and a box.

Ethan Martinez
Ethan Martinez

Who gives a shit what's is labeled? People have shown hate for it so if your game has it you're basically gonna kill any type of profit for your game.

That's the only way to win this battle. Respond with your wallet and they'll eventually listen.

Aiden Edwards
Aiden Edwards

You do realize some major publisher is just going to pay lobbyists, right Sup Forums?

Sebastian Carter
Sebastian Carter

You unlock a skin every time you rank up, user.
Those are part of collections, not the cases

But you are right about selling those skins to get case exclusive skins. Damn

Christian King
Christian King

The only game I can think of that does this is Overwatch, which a) gives you one of every seasonal loot box for free, and b) lets you unlock every item with currency obtained from the freely available lootboxes.

They're all stupid loopholes, but they've fucking thought this shit through.

Hunter Brown
Hunter Brown

Not really, they already consider lootboxes being shit, they're just telling it how it is. And they're calling out the people making a big deal about it who want the Govt to get involved for something they don't even have to buy.

Austin Bennett
Austin Bennett

How is it unprofessional?

Nathaniel Smith
Nathaniel Smith

Respond with your wallet and they'll eventually listen.
This. This is really the only way to take action against them. If all these people really do hate it then show them by not buying the game and spreading the word to others for them to do the same. Will they listen? Possibly yeah since but it's the only real way to demonstrate a stand

Ian Carter
Ian Carter

That only works for no name games, companies will keep using they big name IPs to shove them in

Jacob Morris
Jacob Morris

Precisely. I don't want to support lootboxes, so instead of bitching about them I just don't buy those games. I never felt like I was missing anything because those games are built in ways that aren't fun to me.

Anthony Flores
Anthony Flores

dlc?

Who cares.?

day 1 patches?

Who cares?

unfinished games?

Who cares?

paid online?

Who cares?

microtransaction on a $60 AAA game?

Who cares?

This industry is a fucking joke thanks to people like you.

Jordan Sullivan
Jordan Sullivan

Those machines are the only mean to get the toys, the outcome is random, but think its not

Colton Howard
Colton Howard

i am so fully addicted to big brand IPs that i just cant help myself but to preorder every big triple A game

Bentley Sanders
Bentley Sanders

don't put words in my mouth user, I am just saying that companies won't add lootboxes into stuff without name so those are safe for now
I would actually do the same thing if I owned a big IP

Samuel Gray
Samuel Gray

I mean they are right in that the ESRB is not a government agency with any powers to make laws. If you want anti-loot box shit passed by congress, wait until the republicans are out of office.

Kevin Murphy
Kevin Murphy

okay fair enough
now, when would you stop putting loot boxes into your game? when what happens?

Ian Morris
Ian Morris

Retarded /pol/fag please fuck off and die.

Jack Moore
Jack Moore

There's a term that's used in the "gacha" game community, whales.
People with huge amounts of money and little common sense/ low patience, that is who these cons go after.
Odds are high that the game that sells lootboxes will only last a year or so, make a "new" one with barely any differences and a new coat of paint, then more whales show up, more money is made, rinse and repeat.

Owen James
Owen James

an example is guild wars 2. there's an extremely small chance you can get something worth about 50 actual dollars if you buy gems and convert to gold. that's a loss of money for the company compared to opening some random trash

Angel Price
Angel Price

Lootboxes will only stop when either people wake up (never will happen) or if the government makes laws against them, but even so companies will look for other loopholes to try to get as much profit as possible from unaware consumers even if it means lowering the overral quality of the products you're putting out (which will spread to other makers when they see the big dosh flowing in)

Ayden Davis
Ayden Davis

Another reminder that pol raids this board daily and half the lootbox threads are pol. Fucking cancer.

Matthew Ortiz
Matthew Ortiz

they're just telling it how it is.
It is how it is only because people think that is how it is. Complaining about things that hurt games is a good thing because it increases awareness of the issue. The chance of having people vote with their wallet is significantly increased if people see that they are not alone in their dislike for something. If everyone thinks it can't be helped they will just give up and go along with it like people did with paid online services. The "I don't like it, but I'm not going to complain and I will also try to convince you that you shouldn't complain either" group is just as much as part of the problem if not more so than people who actually support look boxes or other practices that hurt people who play games.

Aiden Hughes
Aiden Hughes

It's probably not gambling, and it's probably not necessary to involve the government, but I'd argue in favor of a warning on the side of every game box with these types of microtransactions. Especially if the game has a lower rating. Parents should know the dangers of exposing someone with an addictive personality to a system designed to exploit people like that.

Perhaps some sort of surgeon general's warning equivalent? Mobile game style microtransactions can seriously ruin the 1% of consumers that are likely to bother paying into the system.

Brody Young
Brody Young

t. Buttsore Jewstein games employee

kek kike

Cooper Phillips
Cooper Phillips

You first

Kayden Scott
Kayden Scott

I know Realm of the Mad God has skins only obtainable from spending money on mystery boxes. I can't think of anything else that's as bad

Anthony Brown
Anthony Brown

Why is it that these DURR ITS NOT GAMBLING ITS NOT retards simply cant grasp the concept that nobody gives a fuck about whether or not its actually gambling, but that this system is shoved on top of a 60dollar/euro product that you already pay for only to then be asked to spend more money on what would have been a well thought out progression system 10 years ago just because this exploits the brain deficiency of some retarded manchild

Brody Young
Brody Young

You fucking idiots are gonna cry even more when games drop loot boxes and instead make cosmetics $5-$25 each

Adam Phillips
Adam Phillips

i already paid 60k on a porsche why doesnt it come with a turbo 12v engine and sports tires?! I ALREADY PAID FOR IT

Brandon Hernandez
Brandon Hernandez

60dollar/euro product
so if you could pay 120€ to get all the dlc with all the lootbox rewards would you?

once you bring up numbers you arent arguing if its right or wrong, you argue if the number was high enough or not

Robert Wright
Robert Wright

How fucking retarded are you? More like I already bought the car so why do I now need to buy 1.99e lootboxes until I get the wheels and backseats that used to come with the product 10 years ago

so if you could pay 120€ to get all the dlc with all the lootbox rewards would you?

Depends on the game, 99% of the time no because they simply havent earned it. The nickle and dime bullshit big corporations pull on you is the definition of greed because the only things truly giving them a big budget in this age of technological marvel is overbloated marketing costs and extremely pricey things like high key voice actors

I paid 100e for Injustice 2 since it was an actual full game on release and the additional 40e gets you 9 DLC characters which are releasing monthly, 4 shaders for every single character in the game and 3 premier skins

Adam Miller
Adam Miller

ITS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF CAR ENTIRELY
YOU ARENT BUYING A BENTLEY YOU RE BUYING A GTR AND THE SPORTS WHEELS ARE OPTIONAL WHERE AS THE BENTLEY JUST CAME WITH THEM 20 YEARS AGO FOR SOME REASON

Joshua Bell
Joshua Bell

definition of greed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
the great part about all of this is that its entirely optional to get some pink skin for tracer, or a golden fun for junkrat, it doesnt affect gameplay and its not mandatory

Isaiah Miller
Isaiah Miller

go kill yourself

Matthew Campbell
Matthew Campbell

nah fuck the law, its made by kikes

Ayden Richardson
Ayden Richardson

nobody claimed to have an "argument", you should simply kill yourself for actually promoting corporate greed. alt colors and skins used to be something unlockable within games but retarded numales like you who grew up during the seventh gen actually think that laughably rich corporations like EA and Blizzard would simply be unable to fund their content without nickle and dime DLC

Ayden Reyes
Ayden Reyes

They also said that the other problem is lootboxes guarantee a return. You idiots always look at things in a convenient vacuum. The law isn't trying to hurt your feelings it's trying to set order in as clear cut a way as possible.

Jace Rogers
Jace Rogers

Not looking to shill, just looking to give credit where credit is due. On the subject of skins and recolors being unlockable in game, Yono and the Celestial Elephants is a rare recent example of that happening. I just watched the trailer for it so it came to mind when I finished this thread.

Asher Richardson
Asher Richardson

u still unlock it by just playing the game, eoither but getting it in the boxes when u level up or by buying it with the gold direct you get from the boxes/duplicates

Nathaniel Taylor
Nathaniel Taylor

set order in as clear cut a way as possible.
fuck off
laws are only followed as long as the majority of people can agree that it makes sense
we can all agree on making murder illegal
can we agree on making abortion illegal?
why do you need a license if some kids wanna sell lemonade?

do you never jaywalk? speed? ever had a noise complaint?

government is the reason why monopolies exist

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