Why isn't VIDYA considered art?

Will gaming ever be perceived as art?

The only game that could be even considered art is MGS2.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Some are, just like movies, books and music.

I've been to a video game museum.

Art is pretentious. A retarded face made of boxes and geometric shapes means literally nothing. At least vidya is fun. So vidya is not art.

MGS 1 > 4 > 2 > PW > V > 3

...

They're mostly commercial toys for children, that's why.

Do you really see no difference between highbrow and lowbrow culture? Holding MGS2 as the only example of video games being 'art' should answer your own question. If that's the best video games can do, they have quite a long way to go.

It can't be considered art because a game at the end of the day must still be fun to play. So gameplay mechanics hinder it from being actual art.

Because a lot of games don't have anything to SAY or anything unique to make the player FEEL.

The issue is that most games are putting you in a world or a story but they are triggering very calculated emotional beats. Bioshock Infinite is a good example of this try-hard attitude towards being art without understanding what art is.

Incidentally, a much better example is Bioshock 2, which actually has messages built into both its world and mechanics.

you know, I don't care anymore, a woman putting beans inside her vagina is considered art. I guess videogames can be considered art too.

Say what you want about this SJW cuck but his video on MGS2 was spot fucking on

youtube.com/watch?v=T-2YuPGYabw

Well but the question is the same way you have popcorn entertainment movies and trashy books that couldn't be considered high-art, what do video games need to do to start generating their own high-art equivalents and make it out of the rut of making low-brow entertainment

>The only game that could be even considered art is MGS2.

>i saw a shitpost on Sup Forums abotu contemporary art once so i'm going to act like i know anything about art

This board is embarrassing.

The presence of fail states and the skill barrier for observing all "artistic" content.

Yes, but only in the context of games that are designed to cater to the tastes of the artistic elite, for much the same reasons that slow moving period dramas about modern and post modern themes are considered art, but loud and exhilarating action films are not. Honestly, the definition for art is useless, mostly because there seems to be an idea that you can't have a fun, exciting game also be thought provoking or have intrinsic cultural value, which creators like Kojima, Taro, and Johnathan Blow are trying to disprove.

How is that non-sensical drivel of a narrative remotely close to art?

The voice actor of Cambell was fucking god tier.

Actually get talented people working on them and an audience that isn't made up of complete manchildren

There just isn't an audience for highbrow games in the first place. I mean just look at Sup Forums, and these are the people who are meant to be the core audience.

I really wanna consider this game art but then it has moments where the president of the USA grabs a guys dick because he though raiden was a woman.

Shit like this is why it will never ever be considered art

Making things like Antichamber, the Black Swan, Limbo, and even high concept gonzo art like Suda 51's entire body of work, and most of Yoko Taro's. Ethereal experiences like El Shaddai would also fall under the category.

>mfw Kojima predicted Trump

>People here actually considering MGS art

First (You) Best (You)

What other bosses in videogames have a health bar for consistency purposes, even though you can't put a dent in it? Other games with undamageable bosses would just do away with the health bar as to emphasize how you're scripted not to win. Things like that can be given artistic credit, and in case of Fortune's fight it's even more provoking because it's so tiny.

By the way, if you artificially bring her health/stamina to zero, the game crashes.

I agree, there aren't a ton of people in the industry that have a strong command of the medium. It's why you see so many game mechanics re-used mindlessly.

An audience is a little trickier because games requires a certain level of 'literacy' to engage with. Movies and Music do too but they can be enjoyed at a basic level (with limited comprehension) by most people passively (that is, they are just passively taken in by our senses). Like reading comprehension, there's a lack of gaming literacy among the individuals who might make up an audience for high-brow games and it's not clear how to give that literacy. Basic shit like how you interact with a controller is lost on tons of people with no desire to learn.

>Sup Forums is meant to be the core audience
I suppose that's half true

There is a video in youtube and people admired it. are you retarded or something? Shoo shoo, go back to your safeplace.

Was she real?

Is he in a simulation?

No.

He thought Raiden was a woman because he knew Mr.X (an agent sent by the Patriots) was one, he just didn't know what she looked like. It's in the script.

Because all that people care about in the "videogames are art" discussion is story. No one gives a shit about gameplay. You know, the one thing that no other medium can replicate.

Imo, gameplay and mechanics are a video game's "art"

Great list. Other obvious additions I think would be:
Journey
Shadow of the Colossus
Katamari Damacy
Braid (maybe)

It doesn't matter if you consider it art or not, it is. Do the 14 year olds on this board not understand what art is? There isn't any real room to argue over it.

I feel like that was done to greater effect with the Armstrong fight in MGR:R. Watching your blows barely even leave a scratch was a very effective way of integrating story and gameplay.

Video games are new compared to Movies, music, and books.

Japanese, Eastern-European and indie games are art because they have a model of director-centric development.
Western AAA games aren't because it's all design-by-committee lowest common-denominator pandering garbage.

Remember how executive meddling ruined Final Fantasy XII by, for example, forcing the inclusion of Vaan due to Square Enix's need to capitalise on the pre-teen girl demographic because they like hunky boys? That's the west, but for the entire game top-to-bottom.
Here's the lesson: Stop buying Western AAA games. They're literally made for morons.

>The Black Swan
Loved it.

I agree for the most part.
I would say Hideo Kojima's MGS series would also count, even if they have serious design flaws.
There are very few pieces of art that lineup with the exact experiences and ideas that the creator imagined and I imagine MGS has similar discrepancies between the end result and Kojima's imagined piece.

I think the general issue is two fold: a lack of vision and a lack of mastery.

There aren't that many game developers who have a strong, original set of ideas or interpretations of social or natural issues such that when they make games, they may include mentions of things but they have very little to say.

The other issue is that most game developers rest on the cliches and mechanical tropes of the industry, they think very little of new mechanics because their interest is more in franchise world-building rather than expressing ideas to the audience through interaction.

Kojima has tons of issues but he came up with tons of unique interaction ideas to express certain sentiments and ideas to the player

You mean Unfinished Swan?

Hell, all of thatgamecompany's work would count. I forgot how incredible flower was, just as a raw experience.

Wait, we are talking about Black Swan by Taleb Nassim, ye?

>he's never seen Interior Semiotics
Uncultured swine.

Because people are too busy and obsessed with trying to make artful games that they're putting less and less time into making games that are art.

Nobody is stopping you from considering it art.

Yeah, that's the one. It's been a minute since I played it, so I must have juxtaposed the title with that movie.

>people admired a youtube video art is dead guys

That was one of the first indie titles I got for the PS3. Its message was kind of obvious but the delivery and experience really sort of hit home for me.
This.

IT's why you won't ever get a crazy interesting Marvel movie from a thematic perspective

No, I screwed up. I meant the Unfinished Swan. I am gonna check out that book, though, it sound very interesting.

Because many people, including you, have the false impression that "art" means "quality."

Nobody denies that books, music, and film are artforms.
Yet Stinky Steve, Hot Problems and The Room exist.

Video games are just as much works of art as any other creative medium.
And just like every other creative medium, the majority of works made are nothing special and many are made for profit over expression.

Metal Gear Solid 2 is art.
Gone Home is art.
Call of Duty is art.
Crazy Taxi is art.
Tetris is art.
NetHack is art.
Super Mario Strikers is art.

Art in videogames use the gameplay to show what they are about. In someplace virtua fighter is on a museum

>"A retarded face made of boxes and geometric shapes means literally nothing"

I hate calling people brainlets but holy shit man how can someone be so dense?

Because video games are games. Games are not art. Chess is not art, football is not art, soccer is not art, Starcraft is not art.

I'll always contend that Flower was better than Journey (even though Journey was phenominal)

at least use proper English when replying a post. I guess you lack self awareness but this an american image board, if you didn't know English is their official language.

cuck

>make all kinds of mistakes in his own post

Just stop

Depends purely on people. Cucks, for example, say that Gone Home is art.

No. I consider a video game to be multiple pieces of bad art, Frankensteined together for the sake of escapism.
It's actually kind of depressing sometimes, you can see some amazing talent in every medium of art, music, design, writing, coding, but it's bogged down by being in a video game.

As a pure experience, it can't be beat. Journey is more of a game-like game, with the secrets and the hiding from monsters and the like. Flower just is. It's probably one of the most accessible gaming experiences I've ever tried. I could hand the controller to anyone with working arms and they could enjoy it and make progress.

As a generalization, this is mostly true. As a creative team is forced to work around decisions made by a committee, the artistic value of a game is greatly diminished.

See: Edgar Wright vs Marvel, and why any lead who values their vision (and isn’t scrambling for money) will leave such a project

There are so many decisions made on AAA games that I guarantee the actual developers disagree with

...

>music, design, writing, coding

because those things, unlike videogames, are always the work of one guy, right?

Art doesn't have to be made by one person you retard.

Gone Home isn’t art imo, but it’s at least an exploration into delivery of a story.

This.

>The only game that could be even considered art is MGS2

Oh boy I wonder who could be behind this post

>Basch was initially meant to be the main protagonist of the story, but the focus was eventually shifted to Vaan and Penelo when the two characters were created later in development. The development team explained that their previous game, Vagrant Story, which featured a "strong man in his prime" as the protagonist had been unsuccessful and unpopular; the change regarding Final Fantasy XII from a "big and tough" protagonist to a younger, youthful one was thus decided after targeting demographics were considered

Even after dead I will be fucking mad about this shit

>I consider a video game to be multiple pieces of bad art

Ah... I see.

It doesn't have to be made by one person but it needs to have vision, a thing which is difficult when the messaging of a game is pulled in all directions by a team that is too large to coherently synthesize their thoughts into an actual philosophy or message

Video games are entertainment not art, art if for fags.

HEY HEY! COME ON OVER, HAVE SOME FUN WITH CRAYYYZY TAXI!

YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH

Art is something that inspires strong emotion.
That said, MGS1 with its combination of setting, music and memorable characters is more art than MGS2, which tried the same but kinda fell short for me and only really has the political messages going for it.

>retarded enough to separate japan and "eastern europe" and then put everything else under le west

How fucking retarded are these weeaboos? Yes, Im sure your average game coming out from finland, denmark, spain etc etc is going to be exactly the same as your american AAA dlcfest trash

I still listen to that OST from time to time. Relaxing and magical-sounding

Is a game art? Compared to illiad, beatles, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, odyssey ,Goethe, Dante, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Mozart and others. I really think game is not art. There are games who is at the same tier at these guys ?

>Chess is not art, football is not art, soccer is not art

None of these involve graphics, music, writing etc etc

>japanese games are excluded from this

gatcha games are art now

How does that imply the amount of people working on the project?

I agree. It's a similar situation as film, it can be a bunch of disjointed pieces of art and be a bad movie, it takes a lot of work from a lot of people to make a good movie, and it's something video games are lacking.

Vydia games are considered new media art. Thats what my professor tells us anyway. There once was some guy who joined an Americas Army game during the Iraq war and Started typing the names of every single KIA US soldier who died in that war. It was a protest of sorts, since Americas Army was a recruitment tool. Was kinda interesting. He also described Max Payne 3 as Kino

Fucking Artes Liberales universities. I wanna focus on Law, not this shit

>finland, denmark, spain
Call me when they make any games worth a shit, or any games period.
The only Western European country that makes games is France, and aside from stuff like Shaq-Fu and Little Big Adventure (made 20 years ago) it's all developed now by Ubisoft.

Do you think gatcha games aren't designed by committee? I'm generalising obviously, because pretty much every country makes shovelware.

>finland

>reddit spacing

Because video games haven't done anything truly interesting with the only thing that separates them from other mediums; the interactivity. It's just the same boiler plate genre gameplay with a few updates mostly.

Everything else is just dumbed down stuff that other mediums (partly because of their longer history) have done a lot better.

>The only game that could be even considered art is MGS2.
Kill yourself, just because it's the only video game you've played worth mentioning doesn't magically make it the only game worth mentioning.

A LIGHT SHINING IN DARKNESS

Life imitates art, user

The problem is that art means different things to different generations, it actually evolved with various inventions and has no firm definition. If some work will be proclaimed art or not depends on how much people love it, how good it makes them feel, not some measurable parameters.

>video games haven't done anything truly interesting with the only thing that separates them from other mediums; the interactivity
Maybe you should stop playing shitty games.

Actually a fantastic example of this is Mirrors Edge.

I would absolutely categorize the original as a work of art. It was a side project by a smaller team, it had a very strong vision, and as a result it became a semi-cult classic where some people truly love it.

Then after it held strong over many years, EA realized there was a market for it and approved a new, bigger one. But this time they got their mitts involved and made changes to the design that ignored what made the original appealing.

Art is a wishy washy, abstract term.

not bad but 3 at the end?

Name of examples then.

Plus it's more of a point that the interactivity itself doesn't produce good art, and because all the other elements are so lacking, it brings the whole medium down.

This man understands that Kojima is a fucking hack.

>posting django
>literally the same kind of art as MGS

why didn't we listen Sup Forums?

To play chess you require a chessboard. Is chess not art?

>Not Pathologic

>actually listing the Beatles among everything else on that list
The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.

I unironically agree with that statement.

How is he an SJW cuck?

...