This is the weakest Souls/Borne game. Yes, even weaker than DS2

This is the weakest Souls/Borne game. Yes, even weaker than DS2.

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No, it's not.

>ywn fight dudes online with random weapons/builds again
>ywn chase down fools on the rooftops of Boletaria
>ywn cheese people at the monk boss fight

A shame that once it got big, all people wanted were cookie cutter and "trolling" builds.

>that utter lack of weapon variety
>that utter lack of spell variety
>that utter lack of upgradable weapons
>only 11 explorable areas including the Nexus
>some of the bosses are a complete joke

Where is your counter argument? Muh atmosphere? Muh comfiness?

>Muh atmosphere? Muh comfiness?

Those are valid. I don't think any of the souls games have outdone in terms of level design. Haven't played Bloodborne though.

Also all other games have a rigid meta where variety is moot.

Top Tier:
Dark Souls

High Tier:
Demon's Souls

Mid Tier:
Dark Souls 2

Low Tier:
Dark Souls 3

Casual Tier:
Bloodborne

Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 level design shits all over Demon's Souls level design.

As for muh atmosphere argument, Dark Souls and Bloodborne objectively have the superior atmospheres, as to what one is better is another debate, but Demon's Soul's is nothing.

>lack of weapon variety
Do you play the Souls game for the combat? It's mediocre at best.
>spell variety
See above.
>upgradeable-
See above.
>only 11 explorable areas
All better than DS2's shitty areas.
>some bosses are a complete joke
That's a DS2 criticism, not a DeS criticism.
It's a game with the fucking Covetous Demon.

Agreed. Everything in DeS was done better in other games but amtosphere.

Go back to your safespace fatty.

>the best game in the series
>weakest
DeS is the only Souls game with advanced game design themes which resulted in god tier pacing. The overall level design was better as well. Also better atmosphere. The Dark Souls franchise is just plain bad, only KF4 and BB come close to its quality.

What are these "advanced game design themes" you speak of

No, it most certainly isn't. The level design, enemy placement, bosses, and lasting impact are far greater than DaS2.

DeS was the first Souls game I played, and DaS2 is the only other one I've played. I've beat them both at least 3-4 times.

Tower of Latria is the best level in any SoulsBorne game. Nothing since has come close.

combat IS the main reasons to play dark souls wtf are you talking about? it's easy to learn, difficult to master, and punishes you for fucking up. which is why it's so addicting.


the only way you could hate the combat is if you're some autistic dweeb that's played so much that he's mastered the enemy a.i and knows how to successfully parry and dodge every attack, in which case, you're a fucking loser, and you could break down any game to it's simplistic core with your autistic obsession of enemy a.i.

DeS has great atmosphere, audiovisual design and checkpointing.everything else
>bosses
>optional content
>weapon/set variety
>build variety
Is lackluster

>god tier pacing
>Except the pacing is far worse than DaS or 3

remarkable analysis

>combat IS the main reasons to play dark souls
No, the world and exploration is the main reason.
The combat is very basic.

Wtf man I'm a big Souls fan but the combat is definitely not the only reason nor the most important reason to play the games, it's also not difficult to master. Have you ever played an action game?

In terms of amtosphere, yeah. In terms of actual level design, no.

linear as fuck. enemies that use basic attacks, and it's just a lot of running down hall ways. Tower of Latria os objectively one of the worst designed levels in the game saved by it's dark atmosphere.

fpbp
DeS is the only game where invasions where actually invasions. You didn't have to bow twice every time your opponent took a step or suicide if you ate grass by accident.
Also, boss fights were unique and interesting instead of just spamming the roll button and poking your enemy to death.

>Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 level design shits all over Demon's Souls level design.
>t. did not play the game
Do any of the other games have a gameplay theme for each zone? For example, the Shrine of Storms was completely designed around keeping the player moving at all times where as Valley of the Defilement had a theme of resisting the urge to push forward as quickly as possible and proceeding patiently. DaS doesn't have that. DaS doesn't go any deeper than gimmicks.

DaS3 has far and away the worst pacing in all of Soulsborne.
>here are a bunch of mediocre areas in a row that you HAVE to go through
No fucking thank you

>Tower of Latria os objectively one of the worst designed levels
Literal pleb taste.
Latria is pure. Pure!

...

It was the only game where invading had an actual purpose other than "It's a staple feature, so we had to put it in".

If I don't like Bloodborne, is it possible I won't like DS3?

I think DeS is a casual filter for people who don't like dungeon crawlers and just play Souls for 'muh combat.' It's clearly the superior game.

>mfw I invaded in 3-3 for the first time

See If you want to discuss the game you need to play it. Watching it on youtube doesn't count.

Fog gates made sense too.
Soul form >>>> gay ass zombie

it's actually the best one

>Bloodborne level design was supposed to be inspired in part by Latria
>It actually isn't at all
The only place that could be said to be so was the Lecture Hall, and that was just a small intermission zone. Very disappointing.

I have played it, I was genuinely curious about the themes you were talking about because I've only played it through once and don't have easy access to it nigger

>Most areas are boring
>Most bosses are so easy that you always expect a second phase and it never happens

>Mfw learning you can be invaded in 2-3
>He has a scraping spear

>lay summon sign down in obscure spot in Latria
>Moving to another world as black phantom
I must have done this for 6 months straight. So much fun.

>the Shrine of Storms was completely designed around keeping the player moving at all times
You can skip the 1-1 completely and trivialize it with the thief's Ring. Or just shoot them down with arrows or magic. That valley of defilement statement appilies to the whole series. And those are literally gimmicks since they don't appear anywhere else and aren't deep.

>People are still pretending Dark Souls 2 wasn't a total piece of shit
Do you defend Star Wars prequels in your spare time?

>people actually believe ToL was crap
>people actually believe the shooting down manta rays with a lightning sword wasn't the most kino shit ever
>people actually believe Boletaria wasn't the epitome of Souls level design
>people actually believe Maiden Astrea wasn't the most emotional story point in Souls lore

This... this is nu-Sup Forums's true face.

Betraying the MiB hit me harder than watching Astrea commit suicide desu.

Anybody who says Latria wasn't the hottest shit is either lying, or a contrarian faggot, who is also lying.

>You can skip the 1-1 completely and trivialize it with the thief's Ring
But the theme continues in 1-2 and onwards with monsters that spawn things and those ghost dudes that shoot giant lasers out of their face and fuck you if you aren't sprinting like a madman. The whole world is like that.
>That valley of defilement statement appilies to the whole series
No it does not. In fact, every single Dark Souls game is designed so you can sprint through any area no matter what and never bump into an enemy or get lost. BB is the only other Souls game where they started moving back away from that design. If you try to rush through Defilement you will get assraped.

Please tell me you did in NG+
Also... 200k souls, holy crap.

Thank you for your OPINION, OP. It's an OPINION that I happen to agree with. In fact, in my OPINION, DS1 was genuinely the best, but hey, that's just me.

>If you try to rush through Defilement you will get assraped.
Or fall in the first area as it's full of fucking narrow planks full of enemies which can knockback you

Can anyone post the doll and hunter no way fag edit for bloodborne?

Didn't you watch that Matthewmatosis video? Demons Souls is the only good one in the franchise.

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHG

Of course I did it during NG±.
Yurt murdered the shit out off my NPCs in my first playthrough so I had no idea I could kill the MiB in the first place.
Yurt was such an amazing character.

I agree.

It feels like a clunky beta of the subsequent games.

anyone who invaded 5-2 in demons souls is subhuman garbage. it's the swamp. 4-1 is equally as callus.

The only people who hate DeS have:

1) Never played it.
2) Are git gud "prepare to die XD" Dark Souls fans

No exceptions.

>tfw you didn't listen to the signs and let the hollow live in 3-1

no way fag

>There are people who don't think Valley of Defilement was a top tier world
>There are people who think Blighttown wasn't a complete disappointment in comparison
What a sad world we live in.

come on, please post it

Its better than 1 and 2, not 3 though.

your getting b8ed

I'll admit that it feels like a beta, but you can't call it clunky. The movement is so much smoother, quicker, and there's virtually no input delay, especially when compared to all the games after DaS1.

BB > DaS > DeS > DaS2 = DaS3

Fact

>Did you watch the literally who eCeleb cancer video?
Why no, I didn't, fancy that

Thank god that's why its actually good.

>Boletaria wasn't the epitome of Souls level design
Am I being baited right now? Central yharnam, undead burg, and the painted world are all superior. I swear this board get dumber as time goes on.

>with monsters that spawn things
Wot? Are you taking about the ghosts that the reaper spawns? That can be skipped too by just ignoring everyone and jumping down to kill the reaper. Only those ghosts with the laser count since they are all in linear hallways.
>If you try to rush through Defilement you will get assrape
Or you can just bypass everything since the level is entirely 1-1 is entirely linear and short. Only the big enemies near the end need to be dealt with since two are clumped with in a house. 2-2 can be speedrunned so easily on your first try.

DaS>BB>Des>DaS3>DaS2
^Only objective rating order^

>Yurt
Dude, his armor is fucking badass.
I always killed him just after getting him into the Nexus.

>entirely 1-1
*in 1-1 is

Boletaria>Shrine of Storms>Stonefang Tunnel>Valley of Defilement>Tower of Latria

Just a couple things to add:
1st Half of DaS>BB>2nd Half of DaS>Des>DaS3>DaS2 Scholar>DaS2

Just got DaS2:SotFS and enjoying it a lot.

You know I'll actually agree with you on that

>its a reggiefag has shit taste episode

I don't know why people put Dad above DeS when the game is just DeS 1.1 half the game is missing and controlling your character is somehow worse edition.

DeS>KF4>BB>Rest of the first person crawlers>DaS3>DaS1>DaS2

Great argument DeSbabby. It was my first game too, doesn't mean its the best outside of unique amtosphere.

>that utter lack of weapon variety
That's still a problem even now
Quantity doesn't always equal variety

shut up reggie, go play your wahoos

That looks more like a Bloodborne area then Anor Londo.

BB = DeS > DS > DS3

Don't bother. Sup Forums is filled with legitimate nostalgiafags who don't know anything about game design. If it is the first one they played, it's the best.

>the world and exploration is the main reason
Combat is in included in that. It may be simple, but there's a reason the series has evolved beyond DeS with shit like trick weapons and power stancing.

Tenchu>all

>m-muh weapon and spell variety
Having a higher number of weapons and spells doesn't mean shit when half of them are useless like they are in the Dark Souls games. What matters most is build variety, and DeS does that well because there's viable builds for every stat, even Luck. DeS also did a better job of incorporating unique effects into weapons.
>m-muh lack of upgradeable weapons
What are you even talking about, almost every weapon im the game is upgradeable. I'm starting to think you didn't even play it.
>only 11 explorable areas including the Nexus
If you're including the Nexus there's actually 12, and if you go by the same criteria then Dark Souls 1 only has 14 zones (15 if you want to count Lost Izalith). Considering Demon's Souls was the low budget niche title that almost got passed over while Dark Souls is the mid budget meme game made in response to DeS' success, that's a shockingly small difference.
>some of the bosses are a complete joke
This is just pathetic, every Souls game has pathetic bosses. DeS wasn't even meant to be a PREPARE TO DIE meme game that markets itself on being HARD so this isn't even a proper criticism, not to mention that every boss in DeS has a unique arena and gimmick to differentiate them from the rest while later games do shit like reusing the same boss multiple times or using a horde of regular enemies as a boss.

>but there's a reason the series has evolved beyond DeS with shit like trick weapons and power stancing.
If it "evolved" then those changes would have been maintained instead of being 1 game gimmicks.

Every Souls games does something new. Leaping, charging, Plunging, dead angling and important of spacing, are all nice additions to the combat.

(You), now begone.

>Demon's Souls is the only game where your character can climb small ledges

what the fuck?

I beat Dark Souls without knowing you could fucking parry

Agreed.

>Using the phrase Soulsborne instead of just Souls

No you can't. 1-1 isn't made of only storm beasts. Plus the fun of souls games is exploring, not rushing like some idiot, so skiping isn't really an argument unless you're in NG+

>using an OnlyAfro meme pic

Climbing is too complex and limits level design. It means you actually need to use obstacles that would stop people in real life, instead of slapping on waist-high walls.

Nigga dead angles existed since Demons Souls.

>No you can't
youtube.com/watch?v=_iDnktksr0
Yeah exploring while taking your time.

>What matters most is build variety, and DeS does that well
DeS in fact had arguably the most varied PvP in the franchise. All these weapons were top tier and considered PvP staples:

>Greataxe
>Estoc
>Uchigatana
>Mirdan Hammer
>Dragon Bone Smasher
>Kiliji
>Blueblood Sword

And they all played completely differently. PvP has actually been significantly downgraded in the Dark games, which was one of my main annoyances during release. But this knowledge seems to have faded with the passage of time.

this is the standard for b8 in this board now? Broken links as argument?

Please be bait if you think that the shrine of storms requires you to rush.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=_iDnktksr0E

He already cleared out the level, retard. You can even see the dead things on the ground. Oh and btw, since you obviously didn't play the game this reminds me of another genius thing. See those skeletons on the ground? Even their dodge roll hurts. Literally everything about Shrine has emphasis on constant danger.

In some ways, yes. It's arguably the easiest Souls game. It has the least intelligent enemy AI. The AI is just so easy to exploit. You thought manipulating the villagers and zealots in Resident Evil 4 was easy? The AI in Demon's Souls is so stupid it can make those Resident Evil 4 enemies blush.

What makes it even easier is how incredibly easy it is to create an overpowered character. Not only can you grind for so many goddamn healing items so easily, it's also easy to weapons. gear and even spells that can break the game like crazy.

Yet at the same time, Demon's Souls is still in some ways the strongest Souls game, at least in terms of innovation.

It's the game that introduced the whole system of organic online interactions that has become the most unique and creative thing to have come out of the series. Every other Souls game has been a derivative of DeS that hasn't really created any radical new innovations the way DeS has.

Which is obviously not to say that the other Souls games are bad, it's just that what makes them good isn't innovation. It's polish. The other Souls games improve upon DeS in the way of polish, but they don't actually have anything new in the way of innovation.

For example, one popular view is that Dark Souls 1 is the best Souls game, when in fact all it does is simply polish upon what Demon's Souls did. Which is a great feat in and of itself. But it didn't do anything new at all. For example, Resident Evil 2 really polished upon what Resident Evil 1 did, and I like it better than Resident Evil 1. But its greatness similarly has nothing to do with innovation the way Resident Evil 1's greatness is based on innovation.

If I had to choose which of the Souls games should go into gaming museums, it definitely will be DeS, because it's the game that actually has the influential mechanics.