Is stealth dead?

Is stealth dead?

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Yes, but it will live on in my heart. To me, nothing is more enjoyable than sneaking around like in Splinter Cell or MGS.

what a thrill

Too hard for the mainstream audience

MGS5 had some really good stealth. It gives you a lot of choices to approach your missions. A lot of gadgets to get creative. You can silently take down all your enemies or you can kill them like a skilled assassin or you can simple sneak by unnoticed.

I would say so. I haven't seen stealth in a while.

Yep, I had a lot of fun with that one.

No, it's just hiding.

it was too easy. you had too many resources which ruined the fun.

Yes, and good riddance.

Stealth was a neat gimmick for a while but its not popular anymore.

Yes. New Splinter Cell is obvious semi-stealth in a AAA action game and MGSV has no level design, which is important in stealth games. I was kind of excited for a Kickstarter game called Tangiers but it seems they took the money and ran and never released anything.

Thanks user, i watched a friend playing that game and now i'm slightly interested in that stuff.
I have never played a MSG game in my entire life, so i have no idea what i'm going to buy.
Hopefully i'll hook it up during the christmas sales.
Care to tell me about the game? All i ever played was the first good Splinter Cell games and they were amazing as fuck.

too bad it only rewarded straight run and gun tactics only getting the best score with the fastest time
otherwise it would have been real great stealth game but i dont know how much i've perfected stealth in that game completely avoiding any sort of detection only to just get an A rank because i was a minute off from the S rank cutoff

Shame they crammed in so much bullshit that distracted from that. The game should have been a series of ground zeros missions.

Wolfenstein 2 has the worst stealth I've seen in any game.

Basically, don't come for the story. It starts off strong but falls apart fairly early on. You don't really need to know anything about the series to enjoy this one.

>too bad it only rewarded
Well, for me, the real reward is having fun, and run-and-gun is not fun.

You can still get S rank by being stealthy in every mission. Its not just about the time bonus. You can take your sweet ass time but if you never get spotted and never kill anyone you can still get the S, unless you go afk for some shit.

Not him but MGS has always been worse than Splinter Cell, Thief, and Hitman when it comes to stealth. The games are good but not in the same way those games are. You're not going to understand anything if you don't play the other games. The earlier games were linear too and I don't think open world adds anything to the games. Sure, you get "choices" for how to approach things but the maps are so open that making a choice about how to approach objectives doesn't feel rewarding.

It gets loads of more fun when you start modding it. There's a trainer that adds tanks, helicopters, etc to the map when you're just roaming and the option to play any mission in subsistence mode, as well as a sort of scenario where you can have enemies invade mother base

>the story
>kojima
I know very well that i'm going to enjoy the gameplay and just that.
Is MSGO dead?

MGSV's online sucks. You can play MGS4's online on any PS3 now so go do that instead.

>top class special forces
>can't shoot for shit

stealth is fun but they have to find better ways to make combat unviable .

try fobs then

This isn't like the past mgs games. cutscenes in mgs 5 are short and far in between. MGS 5 is all about the gameplay.

No, but its in a tenuous state. Dishonored 2 and mankind divided performed badly, thi4f was a complete disaster, splinter cell is dead, and mgs6 isn't a sure thing at all given konami's general disdain for traditional videogames. It's looking like the only options in the near future are going to be an old series revival, or a new ip. I have heard rumors of a tenchu reboot.

>MGSV and Hitman 2016 are mainstream and cult hits respectively
>Dishonored got 3 full games + DLC in an era when publishers declared stealth a dead genre
>Mark of The Ninja and Styx gain cult followings
>modern stealth games show improvement in some areas over older titles, by adding more player options and by not having forced action sections during climatic story moments (even stealth giants like Chaos Theory committed that sin)

We haven't got our mainstream AAA stealth title yet (unless you count MGSV), but the genre is in a far better position now than it was 7-8 years ago.

No, but the recent revival it had is probably going to die down.

Dishonored and Styx aren't good stealth games. Including Mark of the Ninja is like saying platformer fans should be glad at all the indie sidescrolling platformers when people actually want 3D platformers.

Forced action sequences is bad but I'd rather have those with the rest of the gameplay being good rather than the gameplay being mediocre with no forced action sequences. Shame we can't have both.

Styx is fine. Dishonored is a superhero game hiding behind a stealth veneer

The last Hitman and Splinter Cell were pretty good so no, not yet.

There's Styx and....

I hope so

It's a niche genre. Be happy that you still have hitman.

I hope they make another Thief game just to see how much more awful they can make it.

Just play fan missions for Thief 1/2.
That or buy Styx 2.

ignoring the fact that people got their 3D platformers this year, 2D stealth isn't exactly abundant and your own expectations don't devalue mark of the ninja's quality

t. clumsy casual dad

does anybody have blacklist on PC?
is there enough people here to make a game of spies vs mercs?

...

>give the player character abilities besides shooting guns and sleeper holds, and its not a stealth game anymore

Sidescrolling stealth sucks. Even top down 2D stealth like Metal Gear is pretty mediocre. Stealth works the best in 3D. I'm not even saying that Mark of the Ninja is a bad game but sidescrolling doesn't do stealth gameplay justice.

There seem to be more stealth games than ever

They're just not AAA games anymore. I for one have been shocked and appalled by the stealth in AC games when I can bring myself to give one a chance. Never again

No, it's just hiding really well.

the splinter cell enemies will kill you almost immediately if you get spotted. the pinpoint accuracy of even airport security guards gave me fits when i tried to run through assault style.

Good stealth isn't necessarily about having a lot of options. In fact, it's a lot stronger if a stealth game plays out like a puzzle which forces you to commit to a certain course of action which you execute perfectly instead of a dynamic tactical situation where you can accomplish your objective by just about any means under the sun.

heh and I got S rank by simply headshotting everyone
game is a joke

Anyone else miss lethal stealth games like the Tenchu series?

I'm sick of every stealth game ever encouraging pacifist runs. It's especially weird in games where you play as a soldier of some sort.

Pacifist runs are good when they make the game harder

>tfw we will never have something like Chaos Theory or the original Thief ever again

Styx is trash.

It's a stealth game.
Fucking eat me.

What are your problems with Styx?
The writing was ass, but I thought the level design and gameplay was pretty solid.

make combat boring or make detection a failstate

There are those 2 games where you play as a goblin that came out.

That's not really what I meant. It's more of a sandbox. Sure, stealth is pushed, but you get fucking superpowers with some really nice level design to use it with

The key is striking a balance between the two.

Obviously you don't want things to be too open, because then developing dominant strategies becomes easy (see the Far Cry series and how silenced Sniper Rifles trivialise the stealth). On the other hand, if there's only one solution, then you kill all replay value.

If I was designing a stealth game, I would have the early missions be very open and forgiving with glaring holes in security while towards the end, I'd have the levels become slightly more restrictive, which would force players to use advanced techniques just to stay alive; never mind get the top rank.

Splinter Cell; Basically dead
Deus Ex: Last game didn't sell well. Basically dead
Thief: Dead series
MG5: Getting a spinoff without the creator
Styx: New series. Not dead. I didn't like it.


Did I miss any game series?

Blacklist did it fairly well. NuSam is literally John Wick, but it's a pain in the ass to run full assault since his armor can only take a few hits and there's a shitload of enemies that surround you, some have insane armor, some are shotgunners that can put you on your ass in one hit, etc. Sadly, Sup Forums is blinded by nostalgia googles when it comes to Blacklist.

Forgot Hitman. It seems to have the most mainstream appeal. Several movies. But I don't like the gameplay.

Shadow Tactics was fucking great and the devs are making a new game with the same mechanics but set in a different setting.

Quest markers and wallhack vision. It's also pretty clunky and in the first game at least I'm not a fan of the "get from point A to point B" objectives. I didn't play more than a couple hours of it so maybe it gets better later on (and with the second game, though I have seen some gameplay of 2 that didn't impress me).

This shit literally came out last month.

Ubi mentioned Splinter Cell is being handled and there's still an unannounced franchise title they're keeping under wraps. I'm like 90% sure it's Splinter Cell.

I'm not necessarily saying that level design should only accomodate one solution, only that you shouldn't be able to do anything at any time.
Good game design is about forcing the player to engage with all of the game's mechanics on a meaningful level.

far cry 2 stealth is insanely hard but intense and rewarding. you can't even abuse with the dart rifle or w/e because it has a lot of claustrophobic jungle areas. but IIRC the stealth suit is bugged and does nothing and it becomes much easier with a mod that fixes it

Better idea:

Give combat long-term consequences. Dishonored had an interesting idea where getting detected a lot and killing excessively impacted the world. Even a scoring system is enough, since true stealth enthusiasts are going to want to be perfectionists and chase the highest possible rating.

That's why Blacklist was the best. You had options to ghost, panther, or assault so fit in all playstyles and maps were fluidly designed around them all being viable.

Too bad Sup Forums hated the game.

that's exactly the problem with blacklist though. the guards are supposed to be sort of lazy and slow, with light armor and a good sense of humor. not a trace of that banter/humor was found in blacklist, it's all serious business tactical shooter. in the old games guards would have full conversations with each other. it was part of the charm and what made splinter cell unique.

Dishonored only changed the ending (and the last level) and people already hat4ed it and said they were being punished.

>Quest markers and wallhack vision
It's been a while since I played the game, but I didn't remember either of those things.
Wallhack vision seems really redundant in a third person game.

Problem is they can't keep relying upon Sam Fisher. He is way too old. He complained about his age all through the games and the original voice actor is pretty damn old. They probably need to reboot with a new voice actor and name to properly milk it.

It has always annoyed me greatly that in most stealth games the point is to sneak around killing or knocking people out. A stealth game should be about getting in and out without anybody ever noticing you were there, not leaving a trail of devastation in your wake.

Nobody is ever going to like a Splinter Cell game without Michael Ironside voicing the protagonist.
Best bet is simply to make a spiritual successor.

Don't remember if you could turn the quest markers off but even if you could the game isn't designed for them being off. The second game from the gameplay I've seen clutters your screen even more.

>muh thief
>muh splinter cell

Try a full stealth run in STALKER SoC, faggots

the maps were designed for panther and assault, the only reason ghost is viable is because of that massively overpowered crossbow and soundless suit.

Stalker isn't a stealth game and isn't designed to be played that. Way you can be somewhat stealthy but it isn't reliable and is basically the same as trying to play Call of Duty like a stealth game.

>They probably need to reboot with a new voice actor and name to properly milk it.
But they already rebooted Sam in Blacklist. They didn't even mention his age once.

No the games have just gotten so good you don't know where to find them.

So which one is it going to be?

Sneaking past all the terrorists without anyone noticing is supposed to be difficult, how about you git gud

...

Sam Fisher is best stealth daddy

there's a difference between difficult and virtually impossible. half the missions take place in broad daylight and every encounter was clearly balanced to accommodate the crutchbow.

You could definitely guess where you had to go in the game if they were off.
Maybe there's an option for it or maybe I'm just not remembering correctly, but in any case I don't think it impacts the game that dramatically.
It ticked all of the right boxes for me outside of that fact. Levels allowed you to experiment with your path (and were challenging enough to regularly force some creativity), the player character was rightly fragile as grass, and the skills were all very useful but not overpowered.

that makes me happy,
while I didn't like it as much as Desperados, it was still great

youtube.com/watch?v=dSUihB4tkTM
You were saying?

Hello roleplayer.

Goodbye roleplayer.

yes and thank god. i fucking hated how devs tried to incorporate stealth into their non stealth games. it ALWAYS winds up being the worst part of the game.

I just want both rather than one or the other.

90% of stealth games have tried to copy Thief's approach and it's getting stale.

Recently, I played the next gen version of SC: Double Agent and one of the best levels in that was the stranded tanker level, purely thanks to the novelty of having a mission in a stealth game where your objective is to kill everyone.

I agree on some maps (mainly the introductory middle east segment), but most others it's pretty clear they made it so you could stealth. Site F is still my favourite level in all of Splinter Cell franchise.

or prequel

try the stealth scenarios in the original ofp game/arma games, it's basically just crawling through pitch black areas and the moment you step into the light or stand up you get shot

How is that fun though? It's hard to make games like that have challenging combat so it's basically like playing Thief by just knocking everyone out. It's way too easy and not fun.

Posting best stealth track.
youtube.com/watch?v=4X0tDvCpxmY

Sam is the most underrated husbando desu.

Splinter Cell Double Agent's online is underrated.

>yfw original sam was supposed to be EXACTLY this bland edgelord but based ironside refused to voice an edgy self insert
guess they finally got their way

Gotta give Chaos Theory another playthrough soon. It's about time.

Word of advice: play SC Conviction