Is Makoto the worst character in the Persona universe? Hell, I even liked Marie more than Makoto

Is Makoto the worst character in the Persona universe? Hell, I even liked Marie more than Makoto.

Chie exists so no.

Goro exists, so no.

She's pretty bad. You can tell that only P5babbies like her while the rest of the fanbase call out her shit.

No, she's one of the best.

The only ones that hate Makoto is the ones that like worst girl Chie.

>spoiled bratty girl who has no idea how the world works
>still tries to assert herself as if she knows
>a completely nonsense personality that flip flops between shy and aggressive/assertive for no fucking reason

You're right op, but most people on Sup Forums are fucking idiots.

>Can't date Sae
Shit game

>Only people who have actually played the game like her
>People who don't play the game say she's shit

Really causes one to ponder

I played the game and I don't like her very much, she's a boring safe waifu no personality. Sae is better in every way and gets maybe a quarter of the attention and not even a real social link.

Your reading comprehension is abysmal. I guess that's what it takes to like makoto.

Put 150 hours in the game and she's certainly not the best. She's not a bad character, I liked the whole persona 5 crew, but she definitely isn't the best.

This is how I feel as well. She was a safe choice on behalf of the writers, they made her just interesting enough without taking any big chances. I liked her dynamic with Sae but was less convinced by how she fit into the PT group dynamic. Her social link was alright, better than Futaba, though not as good as Haru and Ann.

Having said all of this, she is solidly mid on my waifu tier list. Kawakami remains the thinking man's waifu.

>Hating the best boy

>whole point of the outfits the PT gang wear is adorning the expectations imposed upon them by society
>most of the characters even play the part
>Makoto's gives off the impression of a dominatrix
>her PT codename even references this inspiration
>still acts like the goody two-shoes she is
>could've had the assertive, bipolar "Queen" she was clearly meant to be
>get an abomination of Yukiko and Naoto and Mitsuru instead, with all the personality of Aigis pre-Arena
I know it's too much to ask for, but I wish the whole script could get rewritten for the eventual P5 upgrade.

Teddy and Youske, both terrible by themselves but together they become a shit voltron

This

>not Yosuke and Chie
They do nothing but treat each other like shit and the game wants me to believe they're friends. The whole P4 cast is like this.

Main probably with Makoto, aside from how she's forced, is that it seems like they were just trying to make her a character that would be as popular as possible.

>Junpei and Yukari
>Ryuji and Morgana
I see a running theme of "friends" who actually treat each other like shit

The guy in charge of Persona should have stepped down awhile ago. He clearly doesn't understand what actual friendship is.

Wow. Imagine having a taste this bad.

In P3 at least it made sense and felt like part of the story. Junpei and Yukari along with MC were thrust into this fucked up situation and forced to work together despite disliking each other, and their bond developed naturally through their shared experiences.

>what is comedic relief?

Haru is best girl

doesn't matter, every girl deserves BIG BLACK COCK

Only girl better than Makoto is femJoker

Saeshit is worst though
You don't talk to your sister like that especially when she is clearly doing her best (#1 at her prestigious school)
Sae is literally a wojack screaming "it's not fair, why is life so hard hurr" womanchild

I completed the game last night, I disagree, I think Mokoto was very nice but many of the girls are... Haru, Hifumi, Kawakami.

Characters aren't allowed to have real flaws that the game actually draws attention to. That's why we have Makoto, who even when she fucks up did nothing wrong.

Hackino did. That's why P6 will hopefully be good.

I think she's an OK character but the fact she essentially becomes the leader of the group in all but name after joining is retarded.

>kill shadows and solve puzzles until the treasure room and then send a card
>makoto joins and whines about how dumb this is and how you need a real strategy
>kill shadows and solve puzzles until the treasure room and then send a card
why do people keep talking like she's supposed to be the brains of the group?

Because when Makoto isn't around, everyone is thinking "Where's Makoto/WWMD?"

jesus i want to FUCK sae so bad

Hifumi was queen by they changed it. They already had a few code names with the title so they just kept it when they made a shitty replacement.

Sae is pure

>someone who has unresolved emotional baggage, is overworked and on edge all the time will never ever snap
>sae is the child even though makoto is the one pushing her about phantom thief shit she has to deal with at work all the time

>like Marie
Your opinion is invalidated instantly by saying that.

>almost a cake
Better hurry up

I didn't hate Makoto, but I didn't find her very memorable either. She just kind of felt like a slightly more akward Mitsuru to me.

Sae was bizarrely harsh when she randomly started yelling at her though. Her mood flipped around faster than fricking Gollum.

I don't think you understand what the point of this sentence was. Everyone knows marie is shit. But makoto is even worse. Let's say there were 100 persona characters, by saying makoto is the worst of them you don't automatically say you like the other 99 characters, do you?

TL;DR Marie is shit, but makoto is even more shit.

>Hifumi was queen
Stop spreading this meme.

I understood perfectly, user.
My post was just telling OP that he has shit taste and that his opinion is garbage. Because no one is worse than Marie

You literally said
>like marie
which is the complete opposite of understanding the post. You can't weasel your way out of this one, retard.

>creator commentary
Cool user. Got any more of this? I hear Sup Forums say a lot of stuff about how the game was supposed to be but i'd like to read the source material from the devs themselves.
sauce boss?

Yes thank god I don't like Makoto

...

None of the P5 girls are memorable besides her, literally all of them and Yusuke fade into obscurity as the game progresses

Makoto is Mitsuru, Chie, Yukiko and Naoto put into a blender.

Makoto is Aigis with even less of a personality.

Not him, but OP said he liked Marie over Makoto.
Learn to read brainlet.

I quote:
>I even liked Marie more than Makoto
Which in no way means
>I like marie
Is english not your first language?

I don't but there's probably more on /pg/ or reddit maybe.

>Hell, I even liked Marie more than Makoto
Using the word "liked" implies he does indeed "like" Marie compared to Makoto. I never said he loved her.

No. By your logic he also likes makoto because he liked marie more than he liked makoto.

Yeah no
Sae and makoto share the same emotional bagage about their backstory (father), both are overworked too. Makoto doesn't even know the real world since she studies all the time.
Sae is the child for throwing tantrum about "muh life it's not fair why god are you doing this to me REEE" + shitting on her younger sister in the same situation as her when they should be supporting each others like you know a real family. Literally womanchild who blame others for her autism. But that's not all, her palace confirms she is a bitch who shit on others

>For the design, we went with the image of a distinctly Japanese beauty.

God bless the Japanese. Can you imagine if some western developer tried to go with the image of a distinctly American beauty for a female character?

Aside from Sae actually being a character with a personality that isn't waifu pandering, the two grew up with different circumstances. Sae was forced into the role of 'parent' before she was ready, and essentially became a workaholic who ended up having her idealistic beliefs stripped away. She has been exposed to a much more cynical world and became cynical herself. She also wants to blame that idealism for her father's death.

Makoto, as you say, still doesn't know the 'real world' and is very 'pure'. That purity runs contrast to Sae, and it was because of her pushing that very sensitive button that Sae lashed out at her. However people can have more complicated emotions than a robot waifu like Makoto, which is why Sae lashed out and then immediately felt bad about it. That's part of having a persronality. She also has character development over time, and the world doesn't constantly suck up to her, unlike Makoto.

BEEP BOOP

The thing I dislike about Makoto is that hint at her fiery, hot-blooded, not taking this shit anymore inner self is absolutely never touched upon again past her chapter. You could argue there's a glimpse of it in her confidant link, but her link is utter garbage that's more about her dumbass friend than herself. Why couldn't there have been more cute scenes like getting her out of her bubble, like that first arcade scene? Or maybe more insight on why she has a motorcycle license? Anything other than the shit we got. Not to mention her role in the group becomes stick in the mud voice of reason, which completely clashes with just about everyone else in your party.

A major problem with character development, specifically in persona 4 and 5, stem from the development for your party members being optional. If you don't hang out with your party members in their link, they can't develop. But hold on, we have to write the scenes OUTSIDE of social links to work if you've seen them or not, since it's optional and can happen at any point, depending on how fast you rush them or put them off.

What we get because of this is poorly written characters that are ultimately static past their initial chapters. Persona 3 had it right by not having their development be optional, and the entire cast growing and changing as the plot came to a head at the end of the game. If Atlus continues to use both the calendar system and this formula of party members being optional to develop, then you will always see half-assed characters like these returning.

I didn't think it was possible to have less personality than that.

>her link is utter garbage that's more about her dumbass friend than herself
That was a recurring problem with the party social links.

I wanted to learn more about Ryuji and Anne, not the assholes on Ryuji's track team, or that girl who's pissed that Anne doesn't take modeling more seriously,

I forget, is 25 or 26 what they consider christmas cake?

26 and over.

25. Sae is either 23 or 24.

>A major problem with character development, specifically in persona 4 and 5, stem from the development for your party members being optional. If you don't hang out with your party members in their link, they can't develop. But hold on, we have to write the scenes OUTSIDE of social links to work if you've seen them or not, since it's optional and can happen at any point, depending on how fast you rush them or put them off.
This man.
Hell didn't P3 and P3P at least have party members who do get social link development and the plot development?

iktf

Thanks for the clarification

Yeah, I still like the idea of being able to hang out with your party members in optional ways, but the characters either need an established story arc outside of that, or a system that lets the social link development and relationships actually affect interactions within the main story.

Otherwise that sense of overarching character development starts to feel disconnected from everything else that's going on.

Marie and Makoto are the reddit bait for normalfags. Makoto is worse since the spotlight could have gone to other characters but Makoto needed 2 palaces and ruin all social scenes with no attitude. Ann doesn't even have a palace, Makoto got the bank and casino taking the spotlight again. Makoto is cancer.

>Kawakami
She is perfect. Even angry she is beautiful.

>Sae asks what's bothering Makoto, showing concern.
>Makoto asks hypothetical question.
>Sae spergs out like she just saw her little sister shit all over the sofa.

Perhaps something got lost in translation because it is an absolutely baffling scene the way it is now.

I think the reason I also prefer how P3 did it is that they still get some development in their SLs, but it is separate from their development in the story. It's also more focused on their relationship with MC by itself, rather than attempting to tie up loose ends.

Yeah, I get that stress can make people say stupid things, but that interaction was such a sudden 180 on Sae's part I thought I had skipped a few lines. Or scenes.

>a system that lets the social link development and relationships actually affect interactions within the main story.
I always hope for this whenever there's a new Persona.

It doesn't seem like it would be take a huge amount of effort to splice in a few branching unvoiced lines of dialogue every once in a while based on who your best friends/girlfriend was.

she isn't worse than marie but she is pretty fucking terrible. She isn't badly made, more just not made if you know what i mean.

>which completely clashes with just about everyone else in your party.

She punches Yusuke more times than Ann. She brings Akechi to the school which brings blackmail despite how Ryuji was right about it being a bad idea and you get bossed inviting Akechi by her, several people said even if Akechi got the most votes making a case on the phone for him to come was still another way out of doing it. Then when you're at the cultural festival Makoto is leading the group to stay together, she handles the Akechi Q and A session too. Holy fuck, I wanted to strangle the writer. Your character arc was in the summer, fuck off Makoto you're not the leader. Even if you like perfect girls, this is borderline usurping the founding members spot as seniors.

Ryujis leg bothered me. It was a big deal in kamoshidas palace but is never mentioned again.

It's from the p5 artbook, I have it and could take some pics if there is any chracter you want to see.

I think the only issue I had P3's system was that you couldn't hang out with the dudes in the original, and that hanging out with any of the girls was an automatic declaration of love.

Otherwise I think it had the strongest character arcs as far as weaving their growth into the actual story.

I thought ST:TNG was big enough world wide to teach writers that no one likes smug characters that cause everyone else around them to turn into retards just to jerk off how great the smug character is.

I find the social links rather dull.

The only change of pace I can even recall was when I entered mementos with Yusuke.

The game is rather dull right now, currently I'm at Okumuras palace.

Those times after beating a palace where the game constantly railroads you from day to day without anything to do but read dialogue and sleep makes me want to strangle the guy who came up with this.

>Your character arc was in the summer, fuck off Makoto you're not the leader.
Fuck off p4fag, p3 was better because characters weren't just restrained to a single arc and than irrelevant for the rest of the game, why would you even like that?

literally mentioned at the end of shidos and in ryujis confidant.

crusher?

I like Makoto

Why is she even being pushed into this role of a tactician, it doesn't even seem amount to anything other than her bloody telling me shit I already know.

What's with the group being so in awe of her when she shows her "commandering" attitude for the first time.

Me too, user

>people unironically shitting on Mechoto
This cannot continue

Yeah, I refer to them as cutscene weeks myself, and they flat out ruin the game for me.

The game is structured to make you want to finish palace trips in as few of visits as possible. If you do Takemi's link, it's an easy process, since you have the SP restoring items on everyone. You beat each palace in a day or two max, at the start, and then have 25+ days of nothing but social linking. This is mentally draining and repetitive, especially when the social links themselves aren't particularly interesting or engaging. Not to mention the only interaction with your party members in these 25+ days are text messages of them repeating themselves over and over. I started just straight up skimming these halfway through the game. And what do you get when those 25+ days are up? Over a week of linear and relentless cutscenes. You have zero control, and can only continue watching the poorly written plot unfold, until the cycle is reset by the next palace.

So really, what is to blame here? Their reliance on a system that "worked" for a game half a decade ago in Persona 4? Their inability to do something new and interesting, tricking people into falling into their style over substance approach? Or do you blame yourself for playing this garbage over their actual good games(mainline megaten and some of the more interesting spinoffs)?

It's okay user lots of people are brainlets just like you

There is something in place; the girls react to the marriage question depending on if you've maxed them or not but that's the only instance I've seen.

>using p3 as an example
>when only junpei had a character arc
causes one to ponder

future Persona games need more stuff like that, weird how they emphasize the interpersonal character relationships so much yet they have absolutely no bearing on anything else outside the individual bubbles

You must have skipped a lot of dialogue then.

Marie's problem was that EVERYONE loved her and she was directly inserted into the plot. At least Makoto had conflict before she joined, Marie is the definition of OC ruining a decent plotline. Even after her boss fight, she wasn't punished

Yup. show became so much more tolerable when they booted him off to star fleet. Shame they brought him back later on to give him power over time and space just because of how gosh darn special and amazing he is.

There are far more "annoying" characters but Makoto is pretty bad. I think in general the Persona 5 cast is underwhelming