Sludge sound

Why are the Melvins often credited for creating that sludgey sound? They didn't release anything until well after Filth and Cop by Swans were both released and I don't think they really added anything of note after those two albums. Is it just because they identify with metal and Swans (well at least Gira) hated metal so sludge bands just listened to the Melvins and had no idea who Swans were?

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what are you getting at here? Melvins sound nothing like those 2 swans albums (which are no-wave)

Cop and Filth sound more sludgey than the early Melvins

i think melvins are attributed to influencing the sludge-metal genre because their music is arguably more accessible than early swans, and sludge metal pretty much is the most accessible sub-genre of metal as we know it. but i get what you mean

Black Sabbath

Black Sabbath were very important to the foundation on sludge but you can't really say that Black Sabbath sounded sludgy at all. Not in the sense of the genre today at least.

>Why are the Melvins often credited for creating that sludgey sound?

objectively wrong

Thank you for adding to the conversation

But guys, Sludge was created Black Flag on My War

They at the very least predated the Melvins with it

The real argument happening here is where sludge fully came into it's own as a distinct genre. Niel Young, Black Flag and Swans were obviously hugely influental to the sound but weren't full on sludge yet, proto-sludge is a more appropriate way to look at it. I think the melvins are clearly sludge from the get go and used the influence from the artists above to craft a very distinct sound.

Also the idea that Swans is somehow more sludgey is a stretch for sure, yeah the feelings, pace and atmosphere present are clearly very similar (and as i said influential) but the actual tones of the instrumentation aren't quite sludge, while the melvins clearly nailed the sound.

>Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
>Sweet Leaf
>Lord of this World
>most accessible sub-genre of metal
Where does this assumption come from?

While the sludge is more riff oriented and set roots in both hardcore punk rawness and doom dark and heavy sound, the sound of these two swans albums is more noise, post punk, industrial oriented IMO

implying any of those sabbath tracks are sludge

>>most accessible sub-genre of metal
>Where does this assumption come from?

I would have to agree that sludge is the most acceptable form of metal. If its not sludge than what?

Anyone have a link to Crystal fairy? That Melvins + Butcherettes + At the drive in collab?

Sludge is in fact one of the less accesible genres of metal. Stoner, power, nu, alternative, progressive and heavy are for example 10 times more accesible.

It would be nice if people could define what they think 'Sludge' sounds like

A genre is accessible depending on what you listen to before,
One of the less accessible tho.
Most certainly not

youtube.com/watch?v=FafdwvD6qw0&t=
Did Blue Cheer invent the sludge sound?

This thread might be the worst I've ever seen

Second half of Doctor Please is basically sludge metal and this is 1968

You haven't been here very long

Have you listened to those songs?
Heavy metal
I would have to agree with this. My brother has absolute shit taste in metal only leaning towards the most trite garbage. He would never touch sludge metal.

>Swans are sludge

Pretty much this, melvins had the first true sludge sound, their instrumentals were heavy enough to distinguish it from post punk and no wave

I see where he is coming from, I feel like on Sup Forums the most common genre of metal to dabble in if you aren't a metal fan would be sludge. Either that or Black Metal.That being said in real life these genres are far from accessible and anyone saying they are spends too much time here and needs to talk to people outside of Sup Forums.

>I would have to agree with this. My brother has absolute shit taste in metal only leaning towards the most trite garbage. He would never touch sludge metal.

Curious what does he like?

listen to Cornucopia

You're saying the Melvins were heavier than Cop? What makes anything the Melvins released heavier or sludgier than any song on Cop? Not saying you're wrong I'm just asking you to actually substantiate your argument because I am curious and wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

Well the fact it has no shrieks or growls makes it more accessible than most other subgenres. Also it was the most mainstream metal other than nu or alt in the past 20 years.

i feel like peoples' perception of what sludge is on this board is really warped. the idea that swans 'invented' the sound is seriously fringe opinion that in my view can't really be sustained if you take a serious look at the subject- sludge as we understand it today emerged from a primordial soup of doom, thrash, and various kinds of hardcore/crust punk. the melvins were really, really influential in this regard and their influence is more readily and widely cited by sludge bands than any non-metal band.

actually I wouldn't say objectively heavier, but the melvins nailed the punk/ metal fusion with heavy instrumentals way better than early swans. Cop had a lot more focus on other sub genres like noise, no wave, Industrial. Basically melvins were more true to that one specific sound of punk and metal, which just turned out to be sludge

you're confusing the adjective 'sludgy' with the genre 'sludge metal'. call swans what you want, they're not sludge metal and their influence on metal generally is trivial at best.

Iron Maiden (gets a pass though he only listens to their greatest hits as in Run For the Hills, Trooper, Powerslave etc)
Avenged 7x
Bullet For My Valentine
Trivium (gets a pass though he only listens to the same few songs over and over)
Ozzy Osbourne (gets a pass though he literally, and I can't stress this enough, he literally only listens to a live version of Paranoid with fucking Zach Wilde and a live version of Crazy Train with Randy Roads. Yet he would still say that he he 'loves' Ozzy)
Metallica (gets a pass though his favorite album of theirs is Kill Them All, which is just like, really? Seriously? That's your favorite? Not Master of Puppets? Not Ride the Lightning?)

That's all I can think of. I don't live with him anymore but when I visit that is all I hear blasting from his room. He doesn't listen to full albums. The guy plays guitar in a fucking metal band and yet he has so little appreciation for the genre as a whole.

I remember I tried playing Pallbearer in the car not long ago (very accessible 'pop' doom band) and he told me to turn it off because it made him want to smoke weed.

I've only ever played in indie rock bands but I'd still consider myself a big fan of metal without being someone who calls themselves a 'metalhead' like my brother does.

Is pic related sludge?

yes, pretty definitively.

>The guy plays guitar in a fucking metal band

No.

Alright, I can fully respect this opinion. Thanks for broadening my horizons a little.

yes

Somehow

Yes

yes sir, I'm sure theres more to it, but you get what i mean

What are they then? Fucking aspie piece of cum.

Sludge is a genre of metal. The status of swans as a metal band is questionable at best.
Early swans is arty noise rock/no wave type stuff.

>Well the fact it has no shrieks or growls makes it more accessible than most other subgenres
most sludge is growled. it's not slam-tier but most sludge vocals are very far from cleans