Honestly Loveless by MBV really seems to be a case of the emperors new clothes. Im not even memeing. Yeah, it was very influential in the shoegaze genre but is it actually a good album? I mean the words are completely intelligible unless you are reading the lyrics and even then the words barley string together a cohesive idea. They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence. And i get sonically its very interesting how the sound has such a uniqe sound, feeling and texture. Like big pink soft furry walls.
I just dont understand why people obsess over it and why no one here usually gives a very straight and honest answer.
Agreed op, its been over rated for decades by shoe gaze fags but I always thought it average
Angel Watson
>I mean the words are completely intelligible Aaaaaaand he missed the point
Jacob Martinez
someday people will realize Isn't Anything is their only good album
someday...
James Campbell
I like the mood that it puts me in. I had a phase where I listened to it every day after a break-up and the songs resonated with me. I love Belinda's soft vocals and the walls of sound. When You Sleep is an all-time amazing track. I think certain sections are about boring and don't consider it perfect like a lot of people do, but it has such a unique sound and some standout tracks, and lyrically it's great if you care to look them up.
Dominic Garcia
OP here in your case it really just seems like you just associate this album with some kind of happiness and it puts you at ease. Which is completely valid and beautiful lol. but completely from a non biased person listening to it from a completely objective viewpoint you have to understand how i feel.
Adam Miller
No album seems to capture the magic of Loveless. It's very creative. The lyrics are supposed to be kind of "irrelevant," as you mention, and it isn't really an issue (to most people) that all they do is convey a feeling. Because that's what words are supposed to do right? Mostly the vocals and lyrics fade into the overwhelming walls of guitars to create this monolithic soundscape that is fun to try and pick out little sounds out of. Most of the songs have really catchy hooks to them and then just pile on all this sound that sounds extremely epic and beautiful. You mention how it is very interesting it has that sound. The main reason people like it is how its unique sound is able to put out such emotion with basically a few tracks of really creatively fucked with guitars. My thoughts were kind of a mess but hopefully this helps shine some light on things
Zachary Bell
>words
music might not be for you honestly
Jaxson White
>but completely from a non biased person listening to it from a completely objective viewpoint 404. kys fatty
Mason Kelly
I don't know, I can certainly understand you not liking the album, but I don't think you can claim objectivity any more than I can. The fact that it hits me emotionally means it has something going for it. Sonically, it's pretty damn interesting and I feel like maybe you haven't peeled back all the layers. I don't think it's the GOAT, but I do think maybe you just haven't been fully immersed in it. Not that it's a failing on your part, I have a lot of bands/albums I wish I could get into but just haven't been able to.
Anthony Brooks
>suggest a feeling The point of shoegaze, you mean?
Carter Young
>I mean the words are completely intelligible unless you are reading the lyrics You probably meant "unintelligible". Misusing words when you're trying to puff yourself up as a non-conformist ubermensch makes you look like a bigger twat than you otherwise would have.
Adam Taylor
try this instead
Nathan Adams
I love plebs
Blake Nelson
Hmm yeah i agree with you, i think my viewpoint is actually changing now that i am reading these comments. The reasons that i listed that described why I didnt undertand this album are actually what makes this album is cool and unique. I think I understand what shoegaze really means in general. It truly isnt traditional music The idea that lyrics could convey something besides a straightforward narrative was foreign to me so I sort of rejected it. BUT I UNDERSTAND NOW. yeah i get it now
relax i mistyped jesus christ
wow implying?
John Edwards
I'm totally with u my dude.
I'm a melody man and the melodies on this album to me are just not that compelling
Blake Bennett
Don't fret, my dear.
Charles Russell
glad to have your viewpoint expand. also how long have you been on this board? lmao
Cooper Gutierrez
>It's a unique, influential and interesting album but is it good?
Luke Brooks
>music must be "intelligible" and "cohesive"
plebe spotted
Nolan Price
is it really that unique..........I mean....guitar music. let's just say twin peaks did it first
Jaxon Anderson
making an update.
revising the album on spotify and am currently digging "Come in Alone"...sounds fairly epic and huge with eastern overtones
if y'all are still shitposting in a bit I'll post some updates as I re-review it
Angel Garcia
umm since like 2011 or 2012 i think
yeah I understand that was actually the entire point Here i wrote an entire shitty post about it I implore you to read it nigga
Isaiah Russell
What the fuck are you even talking about?
William Martin
>but completely from a non biased person listening to it from a completely objective viewpoint you have to understand how i feel. Why are people still posting in this thread?
shitty drummer being recorded by a tin can. no thanks
Sometimes:
pretty unremarkable melody. bore
Soon:
oh shit Black and white by MIchael Jackson!
plus muh drone detuned guitars.
samey samey samey
Charles Price
>but completely from a non biased person listening to it from a completely objective viewpoint you have to understand how i feel. nugger
Josiah Cook
update:
Loomer:
pretty razed by the various production decisions on this album. song has bizarre layering. I would have made the toms deafening. instead they are barely audible. singer is not demonstrating much versatility.
seriously, if the toms were loud and resonant this would be pretty cool. instead kev gives himself center stage with his muh drone
Austin Jones
how the fuck do you think something becomes so influential in the first place?
I get if you're just not that into the record... but you sound like a fucking 12 year old pleb
Jaxson Sanders
the you made me realize and feed me with your kiss eps are where it's at
Brody Ward
update:
Touched:
follows in the fine tradition of bands self-indulging with literal shit interludes. wow this is bad.
To here knows when:
apart from the surrealist title, intro is gleaming. descends into samey muh drone. this entire sounds like a b-side collection
again, strange decision-- outro should be loud and clear. instead its subdued and dull. interesting solo guitar idea nonetheless. would move it forward
Connor Clark
lyrics aren't important in shoegaze dummy, it's about the overall feel. they are simply another instrument. ...look at them like a synthesizer or something.. it IS like "suggesting" a feeling. Haven't you ever listened to Cocteau Twins or Sigur Ros or Dead Can Dance. Their lyrics are usually/always/often not intelligible because it's more about the feels they give you in conjunction with the entire composition.
it's a great album because when that record came out, people were trying to understand how he made all those sounds come out of a guitar.
for someone grew up listening to the artists that were influenced by loveless and have explored ever deeper into the ideas that loveless brought to the fore, i can get you thinking it's overrated. but for starters, consider why the artists you do respect like it so much, also, try not to apply your 18 year old pleb outlook to a fucking classic.
go listen to tokio hotel or chainsmokers or whatever the fuck gay teenagers listen to these days if this record goes over your head
Josiah Turner
>how he made all those sounds come out of a guitar.
its one sound. its a detuned drone
Joshua Roberts
It's called the Dionysian sublime. Let the music absorb you. Don't try to figure anything out. Just put it on, pay attention to the layers of melody, and enjoy.
Thomas Perry
touched was always one of my favorite parts and it's the only one that's credited exclusively to the drummer
Jose Bailey
Yeah, you act like you know what your talking about, but you are trying way to hard to intellectualize a pop album. And I have no idea where you are getting this idea that there is a "drone" in there. It's literally just melody.
Jacob Sanders
>but is it actually a good album? Yes.
Christopher Perez
Literally everyone who likes it was once "non biased with an objective point of view." We didn't come to the album knowing we would love it.
Music is subjective. It's impossible not to be biased.
Julian Gomez
I guess he's not into merzbow either
Gavin Bell
>muh lyrics
Good job pleb
Samuel Rogers
>They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence. And i get sonically its very interesting how the sound has such a uniqe sound, feeling and texture I've recently gotten into shoegaze and I have definitely noticed that most albums from the genre grow on you after multiple listens. At first, I Only Said was an instant favorite, but I didn't care as much for the rest of the songs on the album. Learning to play that song, listening to the album at different times in the day and watching this video gave me a new perspective on it: youtube.com/watch?v=KQsdO8e8fwY If you are familiar with instrumental music, shoegaze shouldn't be indigestable. And I don't think that's what the genre is for. However, I'm yet to find another shoegaze album this unique and meticulously made.
Bentley Nelson
OP, if you are still here, please listen to this song I linked. Some fans of shoegaze may consider this song a high point comparable to shoegaze, maybe you'll like it because it doesn't have some of the stuff you were complaining about
>but you are trying way to hard to intellectualize a pop album Not him, but a pop album? Is Eno's Another Green World just a pop album by your criteria? I'm not a fan of pop music, but I like shoegaze nonetheless. At the core it is pop, but disfigured, often lighthearted and drowned in pleasant noise.
Kevin Collins
>They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence. answered your own question
Ryan Thompson
>They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence. And i get sonically its very interesting how the sound has such a uniqe sound, feeling and texture. Like big pink soft furry walls.
You kind of answered your own question. Loveless is a triumph in texture and production. Things like melody and lyrics are only there enough to form a functional song and rarely any more than that. Those things aren't the point of the album.
Jace Baker
This is probably my favorite album, everytime I listen to it I'm it's entirety I realized, there's more beauty to it
The bad thing is that it doesn't really match its title and how people describe it. Whenever I listen to it I feel like I'm in the midst of mania that you get when intensely crushing on a person and listening to it when you are in a bad romantic period just fucking hurts
Nathaniel Sullivan
>I mean the words are completely intelligible unless you are reading the lyrics and even then the words barley string together a cohesive idea. They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence.
Dumbest thing I've read on Sup Forums today. Good job.
Adam Nguyen
is "touched" about rape?
Hudson Flores
>They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence. so?
Ryder Clark
Touched is about revisiting distorted VHS tapes.
Brayden Howard
OP, your analysis and inability to understand anything beyond it being a conventional, literal work tells me you have a mental disability.
Loveless is good, you understand what it was made to convey to you instantly which is the mark of anything that is good.
Don't approach things critically if you are mentally incapable of understanding a simple concept.
Noah Garcia
so if a song is trying to convey a feeling but does a poor job doing so its bad. That makes sense, yeah i realize i was wrong, read my other posts.
Joshua Carter
I'm a melody man
Dominic Thompson
I read the whole thread and am scared by how fickle you are.
Most music is made purely for monetary gain. Music, in the context most often discussed, is an entertainment stage show so technically anything that gets an audience excited is 'good' in that regard.
Something can only be critiqued with regard to what it is, what it is designed to be and then how successful it is under those headings. One of the reasons Loveless is so popular is because it works as a pop record as well as actually having value conceptually. Generally speaking, if something is really popular like Radiohead or NMH or MBV then it adheres enough to pop music conventions to appeal to a broad enough audience to facilitate massive popularity.
Luke Edwards
>if something is really popular like NMH or MBV Sup Forumstards are fucking delusional desu
Isaiah Thompson
Loveless doesn't do a poor job of it, though. Its melding of harsh noise and pop melody is almost parodoxical in its execution. The listener is very clearly being assaulted with walls of loud guitars but there's a sweetness underlying it all that betrays the intensity. It's like Psychocandy if the feedback were somehow fused to the pop undercurrent rather than just being a top layer to it. That's not easy to pull off and considering how troubled the creation of the album was it certainly wasn't easy for MBV. There's definitely been louder shoegaze and there's been more melodic shoegaze but it's pretty damn hard to find another act that synergized the two extremes as well as Loveless did.
Grayson Johnson
I don't care about the lyrics, it sounds good.
Hudson Diaz
Don't get upset because you've never left your house. MBV and NMH are incredibly popular. Playing 'Oh Comely' for 10 hours straight at a house party is typical of middle class kids in their early 20s, and when I was in college literally everyone listened to MBV to try and fit in.
Xavier Smith
>apart from the surrealist title >surrealist title >surrealist >surreal
Logan Scott
please stop and never start again
Dominic Myers
>And i get sonically its very interesting how the sound has such a uniqe sound, feeling and texture. This is what I go for in music. So, there ya go, that's why it's awesome.
Henry Stewart
>put the album on >BUUUUUUWWWWEEEEEE BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA >BUUUUUUWWWWEEEEEE BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA >BUUUUUUWWWWEEEEEE BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA >BUUUUUUWWWWEEEEEE BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I can't say I really like it too much at all. Muh innovation, muh different sounds, muh interesting sound layouts and all, whatever you want to say. It's not good music. You can like listening to the sound, but that just makes it sound that you like.
Robert Reyes
>Oh, boy, isn't the Internet just great? Everything is a meme!
Nathan Johnson
>Yeah, it was very influential in the shoegaze genre but is it actually a good album? Quite the opposite to what you're implying, Loveless is actually the only good shoegaze album. The fact that it created millions of awful clones is the downside, and the fact that it's a masterpiece itself is the upside.
Daniel Ward
You can meme all you like, but that doesn't make it good.
Ryder Long
yeah your opinion is the be-all and end-all when it comes to music. thread over!
Benjamin Carter
Sarcasm is not something you can easily convey in plain text on a drumming sub forum of a Polynesian shadow puppet theater blog.
Hunter Reyes
But this is surely a valid point of criticism. >BUUUUUUWWWWEEEEEE BUWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I know it's too tempting not to shitpost, but can we at least try to make this place less cancerous? Here's a video wtih a competent analysis of the album: youtube.com/watch?v=KQsdO8e8fwY
Jordan Evans
That's almost the exact sounds it bombards you with as soon as the album starts though. It's hard to put into words but that's pretty much the sound being blasted at you immediately.
Ethan Rogers
If you can't hear the melodies, listen to it louder and listen to it more. At first I thought it was just wall of noise after wall of noise but after a while the melodies start to appear.
Took me about 15 listens before I finally heard that synth-sounding melody behind the crushing guitars in the chorus of What You Want.
Brody Martinez
it is literally one of a few albums that is perfect cover to cover.
not my fault people try too hard to listen to albums.
Christian Mitchell
I agree, but that shouldn't make you dismiss the album. While I don't think shoegaze is a challenging genre, Loveless definitely grew on me after multiple listens. At first, I Only Said was an instant favorite and I didn't care that much about the rest of the tracks. Watch the video I linked, try to get a different perspective on it and listen to it again.
Grayson Murphy
I mean the entire point was that it's nonsense placed on this ridiculous pedestal, people can like it or not, but revering it as something groundbreaking is absolutely silly
Asher Long
Again, I don't think Loveless is a piece of art comparable to The Rite of Spring, but I guess you would call that nonsense too, because of the atonality. If you are a musician, you can have a better grasp of why Loveless is so revered. That's not to say that you have to be a musician to understand music.
Mason Mitchell
It's catchy as hell and there is some interesting texture. Pretty good. I prefer Nowhere though.
Jack Ward
Putting "muh" before positive descriptions of the album isn't criticism, you complete retard.
Ryan Taylor
It wasn't about the album, it was about praising things just because they're atypical of "regular" sound.
That's all Sup Forums ever does for most things anyway. Fucking Captain Beefheart, Radiohead, Neutral Milk Hotel, shit gets memed everywhere just because it's different, but not necessarily good at all.
Gabriel Jenkins
Or maybe you just don't understand why those albums are acclaimed in the first place? Jesus christ I hate Sup Forums
Blake Thompson
>They're more like words that suggest a feeling rather than make a complete sentence That's probably the point
Kevin Turner
The albums sound like shit, who gives a fuck about them being acclaimed. They have some redeemable parts but they're largely sound and some parts even are just whining in the case of NMH. It's a joke to be honest.
Nathan Ortiz
All right, not all albums frequently discussed here are the end all be all of music. But please don't tell me you're not of those who think the increased complexity of music equates to it being "objectively" worse. Should rock and other genres of music have remained at the beginning stages and not dare question and expand on them?
Hudson Collins
>who gives a fuck about them being acclaimed. You were the one making the points about why they were acclaimed, apparently only because they sound different.
>It's a joke to be honest. You're a joke. Just leave this board.
Evan Baker
>The albums sound like shit Great constructive criticism. I'm glad we can all see where you're coming from.
David Ortiz
Never acted like they were supposed to be the end all be all, but god forbid anything gets discussed that isn't "Sup Forumscore" by way of being needlessly complex or just having noise. There's a reason all those meme charts exist with images of space and whatnot while having a bunch of made up genres. They're a parody of what is already a parody of musical discussion that takes place here.
But that's just it. They are only acclaimed because of "groundbreaking" or "new" sounds. They aren't very good. >Just leave this board. Looks like I hit a nerve. Sorry I insulted your favorite music but guess what, I didn't tell you to stop listening to it or anything ridiculous. Why don't you fuck off, me and that other guy were having an actual civil discussion.
You sure showed me.
Juan Williams
>They are only acclaimed because of "groundbreaking" or "new" sounds. They aren't very good. You really love repeating this sentence as if it's a fact, when it really isn't.
>me and that other guy were having an actual civil discussion. Civil discussion, meaning nothing actually constructive going on?
Sebastian Brown
Every single post on Sup Forums has to be a constructive criticism or else!
And you haven't posted anything to the contrary, so why are they good? Especially when it's entirely subjective?
Josiah Gray
this is a reasonable assessment. Sup Forums is a herd of sheep. Good record though.
Ian Evans
>these albums sound like shit They don't though
Michael Brooks
>Sup Forums core is needlessly complex How utterly fucking retarded do you have to be to think this?
Jason Martinez
>They aren't very good Why not?
Jack Clark
>but god forbid anything gets discussed that isn't "Sup Forumscore" by way of being needlessly complex or just having noise I agree, discussing the same albums over and over gets tiresome and the board becomes stale. And what's your solution? Discussing Top 40 and manufactured music? Another day of nothing but DAMN. threads?
Jason Kelly
>emperors new clothes That's a term I have to look up every time I see it used.
Wyatt Reyes
You're allowed to have that opinion, but they're not better than any other album that doesn't try so hard to be "groundbreaking".
Wow you refuted the point and didn't shitpost, in a manner that made you look not hypocritical because you were just complaining about it not 2 posts ago.
I already posted why.
No, but simply discussing within a thread should be at least fine to break up the monotony that this board has become.
And holy shit I wish there were a 1 thread limit on albums, maybe if not upon release the second day or something. The DAMN threads are kind of ridiculous.
Brandon Bailey
>Misusing words when you're trying to puff yourself up as a non-conformist ubermensch probably the most ironic sentence i've ever read why don't you just say pretentious buddy ubermensch fucking lol
Carter Powell
>Every single post on Sup Forums has to be a constructive criticism or else! Every post doesn't have to be constructive criticism, but every criticism has to hold at least some constructive merit.
>And you haven't posted anything to the contrary, so why are they good? Because these albums are loved by pretty much everyone, the burden of proof is on you. I'd list reasons, but then I'd be repeating what millions of listeners have said over decades.
>Especially when it's entirely subjective? YOU are the one saying these albums are only loved because they are different, which is a quite objective stance.
Bentley Ortiz
>but they're not better than any other album that doesn't try so hard to be "groundbreaking". Can you elaborate on this? Everything you've said until now revolves around: >I don't like it >It's not groundbreaking >No album should even attempt to be groundbreaking >Innovation in music is something I don't appreciate
Mason White
People 'obsess' over it because they like the way it sounds, OP, is it that hard to understand?
Cameron Butler
>loved by pretty much everyone [citation needed]
And the reason the albums are loved is because they are different, any description of them will include "groundbreaking, avant-garde, experimental, art-rock" or some other synonym. The subjective part is whether or not you like it.
>>It's not groundbreaking >>No album should even attempt to be groundbreaking >>Innovation in music is something I don't appreciate
I literally never said any of those. Groundbreaking is the primary reason those albums are touted as good. I like parts of them but largely they are just not great to listen to. And you don't have to be so mad over some music my dude.