Is Christopher Tolkien Right?

>"Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time," Christopher Tolkien observes sadly. "The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: to turn my head away."

>"They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25," Christopher says regretfully. "And it seems that The Hobbit will be the same kind of film."

Can we all agree now that the LOTR film trilogy is a cheap hollow husk with no artistic merit to it?

The guy's got some balls, considering the money he's made exploiting his old man's genius.

Haha oh fuck would I have loved to see his face when he watched The Hobbit movies if he thought the LOTR films were shit.

White slavers strike again

>considering the money he's made exploiting his old man's genius
If you mean with the movies he didn't. The studio actually jewed him out of the profits.

what did he have to do with the hobbit?

I guess I get what he's saying, but at the same time I think LOTR did the best job it could at portraying it on a screen. I also think he's overrating the book when he talks of the aesthetic and philosophical impact of it.

If this is simply about the action scenes, well, what else did he expect? Tolkien had a substantial interest in military and battle description, I don't think it's unfair to have some mindless battle scenes.

that would be the same fucktard that 'finished' shat all over ... the children of hurin ??? the shallow of his writing is matched only by my lack of respect for his opinion

>REEEEEEE I LIKED IT FIRST!!!
>FUCKING REDDIT NORMIES MAKING IT POPULARITY
--Christopher Tolkien

The Lord of the Rings films were superior to the books, anyway.

The weinsteins broke his kneecaps to get him to sign over the rights and said if he told anyone they'd come back and cut his foreskin off.

>did the best job it could at portraying it on a screen

I could have done without Legolas doing super sick skateboard moves on a shield or a elephant tusk while 360 noscoping orcs.

Tonally, the action scenes felt like entirely different movies. They were terrible.

>eviscerated the book

Bruh the book was like a song every other page. Did he want a musical?

LOTR was pure fantasy kino, that faggot needs to take his head out of his ass. so what it wasn't 100% accurate to the novels? and yea some stuff in ROTK was thematically incorrect but overall it was a really good adaptation.

it's not got levels of divergent from the books. the hobbit trilogy is pure shit though, i'll give him that.

Pretty sure he's seeing things in the LOTR that aren't there. Yeah they're great books but they're not some perfect piece of beauty that are tarnished forever because of some movies and tie-in-merchandise. I know that the LOTR and in particular The Hobbit were written for him and his siblings when they were kids, and there's probably some meaning in those books that we'll never fully understand because of that and he'll see the stories in a way we'll never see because of that, but Christopher Tolkein needs to fuck off with this bullshit.

If my Dad wrote a book for me which was turned into an "action movie" I wouldn't get all pissy about it.

The Hobbit did suck balls though so I guess he was right about that

>do what he wants and make the lotr movies absolutely true to the books
>quadruple the length that it is now, with infinitely more fucking garbage crammed into it which objectively doesnt make for good film

what a smug faggot

Is Chris Tolkien the original muh ghosts muh bombadil fag?

Christopher is salty as fuck because his dad never loved him.

Tolkien welcomed the challenge, it's why he gave the rights up for free. Whether anybody does a good or bad job of it is relative to the viewer.

I disagree with a lot of what Christopher says, but I'm still glad he's there, you know? At least he gives a shit.

Christopher reserves the right to his opinions, and I reserve the right to count the days until he peacefully passes into the West so HBO can adapt a Silmarillion miniseries.

Who cares what this faggot thinks?

It's his dad's books, he probably heard them read to him as a kid. Has anyone had a book that has sentimental value to them made into a movie and wasn't outraged? I don't think so..

I can't imagine what I would do if they turned Mien Kumpf into a movie but my response wouldn't be too different.

Yes, adding in shit like Bombadil and Glorfindel would just be bad writing. In movies, if you introduce something once, never explain it and never return to it, you just lose viewer interest, they have no reason to care about it.

But I guess what he's complaining about is more the lack of poetry in it or something. I bet he wanted the same kind of tone of dialogue as in the books, which is just incompatible with 00s hollywood.

I love the books, and of course they're better, but I think those movies were the best you could hope for in terms of a Hollywood adaptation. Sure they have flaws but I they'll stand the test of time pretty well and hopefully get people to read the books. The Hobbit movies on the other hand...

so now that you've outed yourself as a pleb, what was the next step of your master plan?

Chris is a grumpy old shit living off his father's fame. He didn't write the books or create the ideas so he shouldn't have any say about them beyond what a normal person would.

>he probably heard them read to him as a kid
its a bit more intense then that m8 Jrr would send him chapters while he was fighting in africa, which he would read to his unit/company w/e

salty 15 - 25 year old plebs

Glorfindel would work just fine, they needed liv tyler to do something, but it would work just as well maybe better if done the right way

t. butthurt chris whose daddy didn't love him

yes he did, see their is a reason Chris is so protective of his dads work

Shouldn't you be churning out more fan fiction from the shit lying around in your attic, Chris?

>philosophical impact of the creation
Muh deep fantasy.

>the lotr franchise made $6 billion worldwide
>the lotr estate filed a lawsuit laying claim to 7.5% of those $6 billion
>settle for $10 million
the guy is a cuck lets face it, but his father was the worst, he sold everything for a penny to those pesky jews.

>guys i swear it's really deep
>deeper than helms
>trust me

Last I checked, the books still exist separately from the films. I agree with his sentiment, but he's being a bit dramatic.

That would be Brian, not Chris, Chris produced good shit, and every JRR fan is grateful

you have any idea how many years we waited for Children of Hurin?

>lol elfs all fire bows and they hate dwarfs and dwarfs work in the mountains blacksmithing lol it's so original guys

listen, i am huge tolkien buff. chris is exaggerating, probably because the memories are so dear to him of his father writing it.

but the movies are objectively very good and they don't lessen the impact of the books. he needs to relax.

>but his father was the worst, he sold everything for a penny to those pesky jews

this, why would someone ever let those moneygrubbing kikes get their hands on their life's work for northing

yea but he recanted which is why the infamous 'Disney can never touch lotr' clause

>objectively very good

No movie is "objectively" good

>lol, your an idiot, lol so retarded guys

Are you trying to say this mockingly? Yes, there would be a shitload of more music in a more accurate adaptation

that's a bold statement to make on this board

The film Trilogy is good enough. They changed a lot, and in certain aspects I think they went too far, like with Faramir, but for the most part, it's just a movie adaptation. Is it as good as Tolkien's books? Hell no. Is it degenerate shit? No.

the term good itself is spook but there's no reason to play pointless games m8

chris is entitled to his opinion but his screeching about the original trilogy is womanish tbqhwy

this, the only real criticism I can level at Chris, is he is acting like an emo kid who found out 'his' thing is now popular.

The books are and always will be, he shouldn't be so butthurt over an adaptation, its not like it affects the books except to increase sales

He only made that statement because of Walts anti-semetic views.
It was only after Walt died that the jews ran rampant with disney.

who is this nigger

>bruh

I'd tell you to kill yourself but it seems you have already participated in intellectual suicide

it was because he didn't want a song and dance number on the bridge of khazad-dum.

also remember he was hardcore christian

They settled with him for a rumored 21 million out of the 80 the foundation sued for.

>he thinks Tolkien actually created these tropes
Read more books, plebshit.

Are you mentally defected? That's a genuine question.

>tfw you'll never see a 100+ episode LOTR cartoon
>with all that cheesy dialogue and those fucking songs
>and those moments where fictional languages aren't translated
>narrated by Viggo Mortensen
>hobbits are cute with nice voices unlike that fucking Bakshi film
>same slow boring pace as the books broken up by quick, intense fight scenes
>entire episodes where they're just walking and nothing happens
>Quickbeam being so fucking stoked about life he's just laughing at rivers, branches and other kinds of every day shit
>that moment where Bilbo autistically interrupts Boromir with the "Renewed shall be blade that was broken" poem at the Council
>whole episode dedicated to the gang camping out with Gildor Inglorion, comfy under the stars, singing songs, learning about Elbereth and becoming Elf-friends

Why even live?

>comprehension skills

get some

Tolkien became boring to me after reading The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever.

Made me realize that despite his innovation in worldbuilding, language and setting, Tolkien is a poor author with poor characters.

>Can we all agree now that the LOTR film trilogy is a cheap hollow husk with no artistic merit to it?

I feel that way about LOTR in general

>Poor Author
I completely disagree. His prose is quite good, his verse is decent, and his plot is really fucking good

>Poor characters
You're an idiot. His characters are actually really good. Aragorn, Sam, Gimli, Legolas, Faramir, Boromir, they're all fucking good. I swear to god if you mention George "RR" Martin, I'll kick your ass, because his characters completely deteriorate by ADWD.

The LOTR films had some merit and spirit of the original books scattered among Jackson's mindless action scenes and lazy revisions.

how do you think they'd hold up these days?

I've read most fantasy written before 1990, but never Thomas Covenant, does it still hold up? would you recommend it?

One of my favorite tolkien is when his actions scenes just happen, their exciting af maybe because its been so long since something action related happened, but for instance the Moria fight is awesome just kinda comes outta nowhere

>"The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me.

Accurate. They were fun movies but they're only a rung or two above capeshit, basically.
PJ's adaptation was impressive because it had been such a monumental task and it was so much less butchered than people had expected; but it still didn't faithfully reflect the tone of the book. Though if it had, it probably wouldn't have been as successful.

Yes, agreed. What we need to do is let Peter Jackson direct 20 hour remakes of the films

>listen, i am huge tolkien buff.
Clearly not.
>chris is exaggerating, probably because the memories are so dear to him of his father writing it.
Projecting.
>but the movies are objectively very good
Opinion discarded.*
>and they don't lessen the impact of the books.
They change the meaning of the books in the eye of the general public. The place of "lord of the rings" in culture is now the blockbuster movie trilogy rather than the books.
>he needs to relax.
It's his father's legacy. Why should he relax if it is being tarnished based on the ideals his father had instilled in him?

*no movie is objectively good or bad. There are many things wrong with the lotr trilogy and, compared with other movies, they are mediocre or bad.

Or when he establishes cool shit.

Moria is cool, especially Durin's Bane, that shit is cool as fuck. But probably my favorite part is his description of Gondor and its history. It just hits you. Pippin's whole story line is kind of boring, but when Gandalf explains Gondor and its stewards, and the throne, it's just so good. So much of the plot you read previously makes sense, and it ties everything together.

Lord Foul's Bane is a very difficult book to read. The lead is an unsympathetic cripple and is widely considered one of the most unlikable protagonists in fantasy.

The books are heavily based in guilt and the impotence of the innocent. Covenant is a sick, diseased leper, clinging to the one things that reminds him of his previous life. He is a man made in insecurity that the idea of asking for help has become abhorrent to him.

The books hold up because they're unique in fantasy. The first chronicles are up there with Book of the New Sun in terms of literary merit. The prose is a little archaic, but nothing that was out of line with the period.

>philosophical impact

My god this guy clearly spent his whole life riding his father's coattails and put LOTR on a god damn pedal stool. It's OK but not THAT good.

But what is his stance on Smaug being a wyvern or a dragon?

Why is modern fantasy so terrible

>unique in fantasy
that's a big claim, but I have been hearing about it since childhood so I guess its about time

Don't stop at around page 50. Something like 90% of people that dropped the book drop it there.

He'd have to cast more women and POC in lead roles.
He'd never get away with a cast as white, male and cis as the one he used in the 00s.

Because it's all faux-epic shit doesn't even try to seem like a charming fairy tale. Everything has to be a huge war that spans several countries instead of a small, personal story; and everyone's belt-buckle needs a long, boring backstory.

nah not me, it would have to be pretty fucking bad not boring bad, can't even remember the last time I just dropped a book 1/2 way through

Black elves? Oh wow I'd totally watch that!

So brave.

I typically read books through, even if they suck.

But Huck Finn I stopped halfway through. That book is so fucking boring it's not even funny.

this is what drow look like, not exactly black

>inb4 tolkien dark elves

they weren't physically different

>be military
>faggy kid keeps reading stories about wizards and shit out loud

Nigga, blacks only shared some similarities

I suppose I did technically drop Malazan on House of Chains, but I just didn't have the time for something that in-depth, it wasn't bad at all just bad timing for me to read it.

b-but thats what I said, drow aren't black

Most people drop it at 50 due to the content, not how boring it is.

Some real nasty shit happens, which basically dictate the tone of the remaining books in the first trilogy

actually it was mostly Frodo and Sams trek through the marshes, mordor etc. so regular guys in a fucked up wasteland, would've been incredible for a unit in Africa during ww2

I'd argue that people like Sanderson aside, fantasy is currently in a bit of a golden age.

>pedal stool

just replying to tell no one else to reply to this

>nasty shit happens
hahahaha, ok no problem then. Probably still not as bad as the shit that goes down in the Witcher books

sorta, maybe, their has been some great ones, e.g. Locke Lamore

Wowwow, it's 2016

Cool it with the racism

but they aren't

to put it another way Drow are not Niggers

>funny thing is of course their sadistic murderous fucks, so why would nigs what to be them?

Not all blacks deserve the hate, they are good people that have done nothing wrong.
I'm pretty sure they are a great fit to potray Drows

His old man was able to fully realize a fictional reality, something that few authors, even those with a more impressive literary pedigree than Tolkien, have failed to do.

He was, however, a poor storyteller. His prose is incredibly stale at times, the extraneous descriptions immensely tedious, and the pacing is middling at best. The LOTR books' themes were fairly basic philosophically, and the old fucker who wrote them was happy to spend ten pages describing the elven craftsmanship of a door.

Tolkien was a genius worldbuilder, but a shit writer. It is understandable why autistic people hold his work in such high regard; they value setting detail over character development and thematic nuance.

yea evil psychotic demon worshiping assholes, sound about right

>is boring
>i don't like it
>everyone who enjoys it must be autistic
>I like Sanderson

pleb

Ironically, Tolkien has more in common with Sanderson than someone like Abercrombie, Rothfuss or Lynch.

>they value setting detail over character development and thematic nuance.

Kind of like the star wars prequels.

>likes crombie and rothfuss

how pleb can u get bud?

Considering that Lynch is easily the worst of who I named, I think you're the bigger pleb for liking HIM.

what is thematic nuance

that nice, stay cucked fgt.

tbqh I like rothfuss, crombie is a fucking hack tho

>salty
t. 14 year old wigga