This doc is compelling but why are people acting like it's any different for christianity...

This doc is compelling but why are people acting like it's any different for christianity? It was founded through deceit the same way scientology was except where scientology was founded much more recently in an era where people are a bit more educated and reasonable to believe such nonsense, people were gullible as fuck 2k years ago when science wasn't around to explain anything and the only reason its still around today is because of how far its spread through 2k years and human beings intrinsically have a mob mentality.

It's just sad that anyone can believe any of this shit nowadays. And I'm not talking about spirituality, which is something that may have merit in it's own right, I'm talking about all the religious non sense.

>scientology is the same as christianity

>gullible
>believe
Incidents on the Time Track are not "beliefs," they are auditing prompts which attempt to locate overts and withholds (per readings on the e-Meter). One can audit this material without "belief". One can audit the material and have it run completely flat. One can audit the material and only react to certain parts.

The idea that Scientologists believe in science fiction space empires is entirely a misinterpretation of materials by non-practitioners and a bullying fedora mentality.

This is why neckbeards who were spoonfed false data by apostates can't be trusted when it comes to opinions and thoughts on Scientology. You just have not the first clue about the subject you're talking about.

> Atheists
> Free from mob mentality

ok

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>2k years ago when science wasn't around to explain

How could science explain a miracle?

A christian can get into the mind of an atheist in order to gauge his argument but atheists are hardened of heart and mind and refuse to see things beond their own narrow view and therefore will never understand why certain people believe certain things other than they do.

In short: autism.

>le science and atheism are free from ideology

Fundamentally there's no difference between believing in the Bible and believing in Dianetics, but the actual practice of worship in Scientology and the structures of power are way different in Scientology than in Christianity. The Church of Scientology is way shittier than the vast majority of Christian churches. Or really any major religion. Hell, even Islam with its extremist sects is generally decent, while Scientology is pretty much universally shitty.

really wish Christfags would LEAVE this board.

We do not approve.

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Quick question, do you believe that humans can be divided into sub-species?

>It was founded through deceit the same way scientology was
It wasn't.

>the only reason its still around today is because of how far its spread through 2k years
Or maybe there was something of value in it that our ancestors thought was worth bringing forth. Big reason western civilization is so successful is because of Christianity. The values, ideals, your customs, world view and how you see appropriate to behave is largely shaped and influenced by Christianity.

>and human beings intrinsically have a mob mentality.
We are, and its not obvious that if you strip away Christianity that people are gonna take on a better way of living.

To say that all religion is created for the sole purpose of deceiving people is such a fucking "babies first criticism" that its unbelievable. You barely scratched the surface of belief and religion.

it's the business model that makes it stand out, nobody gives a shit what stupid shit you want to believe in

Who /Xenu/ here?

Why is this slanderous SP thread still up? MOOOOOOOODS

Really made me think OP

Of all the dipshit responses to various arguments, this had to be the dumbest.

>"religion is dumb"
>" well, then you must wear a fedora"

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>tfw reading some pretty good short story by L Ron
>wonder who he is
>tfw literally started his own religion
>tfw it survived his writing
>tfw you will never lead a mob of idiots and become their god while milking them for all they'r e worth
say what you want about scientology and the Hubs, but what he did is extraordinary

Not him, but do you?

I disagree. You only perceive it to be Christian values because you chose to make the association. Humans are fundamentally capable of all such values and ideals without the need for religion but there's a certain insecurity among most religious people that makes them think it isn't.

Sup Forums is and always has been a Christian website.

Take your fedoras and fuck off to Reddit

>how is Christianity any different
It's different in the fact that Scientology is literally, unambiguously, incontrovertibly a money making scheme in which the members of the church literally pay to play.

Yes, of course. As I truly am a man of science, and not a sheep who believes what their masters tell them to.

I think you'll find the Enlightenment was in direct opposition to Christianity and is responsible for the modern values of western civilisation. Look at the pre and post Enlightenment world and you'll see how much we owe to opposing faith.

This is some kind of logical flaw because human biology just developed those values and ideals through our evolution as a means for better odds of survival. Just because Christianity was created and as a believer you choose to associate all the good things to it doesn't make it the cause of such things, much the same way that scientology is not the cause of the good things that those people go through. They just happen to go through things and make the association themselves because they're indoctrinated to think that all the good in their lives must have come from this religion I chose to follow.

>I truly am a man of science, and not a sheep who believes what their masters tell them to.

not to defend christcucks but in the west christianity only gets creepy in the weird off-shoots (almost always in america lmao)

if you want to leave your local mainstream church they are not going to stalk you or force you to do hard labor

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And Christianity isn't?

Don't kid yourself. Just because it's become highly sophisticated at masking it over the centuries with all the ceremonial hoopla bullshit surrounding it doesn't mean it wasn't the same damn thing fundamentally. Along with being an easy means for control in the roman ages.

I love that in any thread about Scientology, the same Sea Org shill drops in with the same lines every time.

C-come on guys. If we just keep saying they wear hats, they're bound to realise they're wrong eventually.

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Because they practice slavery and break families up now. The church isnt that bad.

Fuck off racist.

Of course not because Christianity is so big and established it doesn't give a rats ass about losing and gaining a few here and there. Its literally like saying McDs would make a big deal out losing 1000$ when they make fucking billions. But your local small food place probably will. That doesn't make one better than the other, it's just a different game for both.

If you had actually said something based on science, rather than acting all enlightened by your own intelligence, I would have actually debated you on it. say some stupid fedora-tier shit, and get spammed with fedora pics. It's that simple.

No... it isn't. Just because there is money in ALL western religion doesn't mean that they all can be reduced to money making scams.

Every religion may be an institution of power and control, but scientology is different in that it's unabashedly a pyramid scheme,

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>I disagree.
That is alright, you are just plain wrong and misinformed though.

>You only perceive it to be Christian values because you chose to make the association.
What the hell do you know about that?

>Humans are fundamentally capable of all such values and ideals without the need for religion
Absolutely. Of course you don't need religion to make or give people values or ideals, you can have that without religion. But societies do differ in how they make their justice systems and what is right and wrong and how to respond to right and wrong and so on. If we look at different customs around the world and we'll see a lot of different ways of handling things like stealing for example. Some places the custom is to chop the arm of, in other parts there are different ways of handling that particular situation. That is just one example of how religion can influence what people think is right or not. That is not to say that everyone without a religion would chop it off because they are evil and those with Christianity would find a better way of dealing with it, its just an example. Our lives are filled with these sorts of ethical dilemmas and Christianity influenced a lot of our thinking on how to deal with them.

>but there's a certain insecurity among most religious people that makes them think it isn't.
May be. Idk, i am not religious.

I said something based on history.

Lol I swear man I don't know how you guys keep trying so hard to convince yourselves of something fictional with all the mental gymnastics. There is nothing else people would ever believe with such lack of evidence than they do Christianity. And the only reason thats the case is because of the phenomenon of have a luring idea get spread through millenia and having generations grow up on it.

If this kind of thing were to make it's debut today people would laugh it off. You would some that would follow it still like scientology but most wouldn't intentionally blind their critical thinking for it like they do now.

You got your posts mixed up, friend. Trace back the conversation you were having with the first post you linked, and it was about human subspecies, not the enlightenment.

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the response is appropriate for the merit of hte claim.

Scientology can't find roots in societal structure and function like christianity can

>Christianity influenced a lot of our thinking on how to deal with them
Is that why Donald fucking Trump may be our next president? Is it because of Christian values that the religious party in the U.S. gave rise to him?

Religion is just philosophy + myth, and it will always take a back seat to tangible, real world politics.

I think that might just be a Blade cosplay.

I'll take what is a system of ethics and morality for 500 alex

I'm not a Christian, dumbass. Learn to nuance.

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Your first comment goes against the concept of critical thinking. The only way you can be sure of something is if you admit to knowing everything. And if you think you do you're ignorant anyway.

I grew up in a Christian family. You can even say I'm culturally Christian. So yes I do know about that.

>merit of the claim
What claim? Go back to Sup Forums with your fucking fedora-posting.

*tips fedora

>will always take a back seat to tangible, real world politics.
it's like you dont even know anything about America

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I can maintain one without the need for religion. You might have a weak mind and need something like that I guess.

I'm not this guy I got a fedora reply too. I was making a general point about people posting hat pictures in lieu of having a valid counterargument. Fair enough if there's no content in what's being said, but you tend to get hat pictures whether you make a point or not.

It's like you don't know anything about the founding fathers.

Anyway, saying that you're a Christian and talking the talk is =/= to acting like one, you fucking moron.

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Stay mad

Take Christianity. Replace anything that says Christ/Jesus with cookie monster and leave the rest the same. Why is this suddenly not believable?

I think if God did exist, he would embarrassed by how dumb some of his creations were. He would be humiliated by the fact that he gave humans the ability to think rationally, only to have it wasted in preference of "blind faith".

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Thank you good sir. I tip my hat to thee as well.

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>This is some kind of logical flaw because human biology just developed those values and ideals through our evolution as a means for better odds of survival.
And just like we go trough a process of evolution where what things do not work and what things do work, so do ideas. And just like someone thought that your genes where worth putting in to the next generation(or you made because you where effective and competent) , someone thought the ideals found in the stories of Christianity where also worth putting to the next generation. Ideas, culture and religion influence biology and vice versa. Some example of this is communities that suddenly changed their religion had such drastic decrease in birth rates the communicates died out. Some ideas can be destructive and lead the demise of the organism having them. Nihilism in particular seems to be a very destructive idea to have as it leads individuals to apathy, unproductivity, depression and just shitty lives.

>and as a believer
I am not a believer.

>think that all the good in their lives must have come from this religion I chose to follow.
Thoughts, ideas, culture, and so on, hold values, values which leads to action. Some courses of action leads to ruined lives, other leads to good lives. What religion early on tried to figure out was what actions leads to good lives and what actions leads to bad lives. Its not like you can predict or know what every action will lead to, but our ancestors did find out some things. Try and see what happens with your life and your self if you for example start doing the 7 deadly sins. You'll end up in a bad place, not because god sent you there as a punishment, but rather because the consequences of the actions are gonna make people dislike you (just an example) and that is gonna have negative repercussions for your life. "but everyone knows that!" No they don't.

how do you not understand that you can be an active member of a cristian church without having to pay thousands of dollars, yea sure you will spent a little money on donations and shit but not thousand and thousands of dollars like in scientology

both are shit we all agree but scientology is worse

You too sir. It's always a pleasure (for the mind) to be in the company of educated gentlemen.

Hey guys this is god. I just wanted to say that you guys are all idiots. I gave you all these tools to think and rationalize. And some of you have created amazing things like math and science that have allowed you to thrive but then you have my other children who choose to intentionally stop themselves from using these tools because they think they're doing it for me. Aww how sweet. Although appreciated, I never told you to do that shit and I didn't give you those things for nothing you fucking idiot so use them.

I just want to fuck bitches.

> DUDE!
> Like...put the words of Abraham Lincoln in Hitlers mouth and they sound bad

I think atheists are so far up their own ass that they think they dont have to try anymore.

You do realize the argument is not whether there is functional value in Christianity, it's whether it's fundamentally real, which it isn't.

There are things even in Scientology that can be deemed of value in a functional sense. But the religion itself is still based on horse shit.

Holy fuck, how much negative products of a religion did you have to ignore to reach this conclusion? Not to say that there aren't some positive things that have resulted from Christian values, but Kant (or various other philosophers) would have been much more sufficient and beneficial than the superficial doctrines of the church. Some of the founders identifies as Christian but as far as policy is concerned, they were concerned with philosophy in general.

Corrolation =/= causation, dummy.

Not user btw

>inb4 *correlation
Heh

You just my point dumbass. I'm not atheist by the way.

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Not user, but you're not too bright, are you?

>There are people on Fortune who haven't grown out of atheism

Christ be with you friends.

Because it's nothing like Christianity.

From: Atheistfag.

Examine the predicates of that word salad and see if it makes sense.

I haven't seen a Christfag this buttmad in a while. May I have another fedora, sir?

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This is very applicable to Mormons. Also anons pretending to be Christians on 4 chan triggers me, post more fedoras and maybe christ will forgive yr sins.

More and more atheists. Less and less religious. We're getting to a point where people are more reasonable and there's too much access to information for them to continue believing the non-sense. One day in a distant future, this whole Christianity thing will be studied like the old multi-god eras are today.

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I think with most of them, it's basically like the hipster mentality that drives their contrarianism.

And proud of it. Problem?

This.

Why is it that atheists think not being able to understand something makes them smart?

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Because mainstream western christianity hasn't done culty shit in living memory

Then you haven't been to a Catholic mass in a while.

Because you christfags are so fucking stupid that you think if something can't YET be understood you immedietly jump to the conclusion that it must be god. God of the gaps.

You used that same logic to explain everything from the sky being blue to the earth being flat. Until science came and actually looked into it and found that it was different. Now you cling to whatever's left and still can't understand the concept of progressive understanding. Just because we can't explain it now doesn't mean we won't explain it eventually through continued research and study.

That way of thinking literally forces you to stay closed minded and never attempt to look into things until an exterior thing proves it to be different. In essence making religious nuts just a step behind all the time like a retarded limb having to be dragged along while others do the real work. Fucking tools man.

Grouping up in a church and submitting to an all-mighty fictional being isn't culty?

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He's just going to respond with a fedora, m8 -- this one is a special kind of stupid.

If you don't understand the difference between a cult and a religion after watching that documentary you must be a total dolt.

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Are you some doltphobic asshole?

Scientology teaches pretty much the same thing that Christianity does.

Scientology
>Thetan spirits attacking your soul

Christianity
>Satanic spirits attacking your soul

Scientology is pretty much like any other religion with its belief of the immortal spirit that will exist forever once our mortal flesh dies and we move onto the next world.

I have no idea why people call Scientology so crazy or Hubbard insane? Oh because he was a science fiction author.

Go and study all the ancient religions about the soul and about Gods creating mankind or even the ancient alien theory which teaches that God created humans (what Ridley Scott's Prometheus film is based off).