Was Cypher right? Does it really matter if they are in a simulation if they can't discern it from reality?

Was Cypher right? Does it really matter if they are in a simulation if they can't discern it from reality?

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On an individual basis, no. As a species, yes.

Yes

He was right, especially in the end when Neo figures out that the whole resistance reality was part of a deeper simulation too.

Its better to live in the pretend high life, then in the pretend shithole.

SHE WAS A BEAUTIFUL CREATURE

Cypher only escaped because he was searching for the truth. Even if he gets reinserted, new memories, and has a wild easy movie star life, the truth will find him again because it is in his nature to question. Only this time he'll won't have a choice to leave and will have to live with the realization that his bluepilled world is fake.

So basically the life of your average Sup Forums tard.

Really makes u think...

It was a fucking animal! My kid's in the fucking hospital!

...

>Living in a reality that is indistinguishable from reality then leaving that reality only to go to a place that is again indistinguishable from reality.
why do they never question that the world outside of the simulation is another simulation?

>Sup Forumstard
>reinsertion
you're thinking anyone but Sup Forums here.

Most Sup Forums users have never inserted into anyone, let alone reinserted. Because they're fat virgins, you see.

IMO he was a fool to trust the Matrix.

can't believe people still don't realize zion was in the matrix

they do, people outside of the matrix kill themselves all the time because of this.

I think that's a serious debate that mostly depends on how you think Neo's powers work in the real world.

How did Tony know it was a wig? What other hidden talents did he possess?

how is it a debatable when mr smith explains to him that he's not the one, but just a virus the matrix created itself

Why would it create its own virus?

Tony was extremely observant and intuitive when it came to observing people and identifying their desires and weaknesses. He knew right away when Paulie was the one feeding New York information just from a few glances. The wig was child's play.

to detect bugs and remove them if there is any since it's an advanced program.

Yes.
It makes no difference, it's all perception.

If the one is a virus he's still the one. The question is: why do his powers still work outside the Matrix? How is he able to fug shit up even when he's not plugged in?

he is still plugged in, he thinks he's not like he did in his "reality" before he took the blue pill. that's why his powers work.

very deep upboated

Because the Wachowski sisters stopped giving a fuck at that point and just slapped in anything they thought was cool with no regard to plot or character development.

*upvotes*

Or he has wifi in his neck port.

This is the real answer.

'sisters'

>sisters

This is fucking radical, just when you thought there was nothing left to be said you get a five star quality post like this.

Are you serious? Can't tell.

It's not groundbreaking deep, but people don't usually talk about Cypher other than "would you go back to bluepill if you had a choice?"

That post only follows up on the logical assumption that Cypher only made it out because he questioned things and Morpheus found him. What would happen to Cypher if he were reinserted is not normally explored.

Quit being so smug.

>Quit being so smug.

>What would happen to Cypher if he were reinserted is not normally explored.

Because he's a flat side character and any speculation about his inherent 'nature' as opposed to anyone else in the universe is exactly that and utterly inane.

Do you think Mouse would have worn fingerless gloves in the Matrix or did he just take it up once the truth of the universe was revealed to him? Who gives a fuck.

What's to stop them reprogramming him as a retarded Hillary supporter?

It's pretty simple too since Colonel Sanders just lays it out on the table in reloaded
>First Matrix was a utopia
>Didn't work because people are awful
>New Matrix was modeled after the 20th century, just before advent of AI
>History repeats itself within the Matrix, AI creates second layer of simulation
>Cycle continues
Colonel Sanders even says this will be the 6th time the machines have destroyed Zion and people still don't get it.

Of course not. The only reason he thought that was because the agents wrote the steak to make him think that.

>New Matrix was modeled after the 20th century, just before advent of AI

I never understood this, why not remodel it from hundreds of years ago when ideas about philosophy and technology were not capable of perceiving that we are living in a simulation?

The largest amount of information available would be about the 20th century.

available about what? all they are trying to do is convince people they are living in a simulation, they can change the laws of the universe any way they please

>fug shit up

Neo has only ever used his powers outside the Matrix on machines. He doesn't create a force field or emit EMP, he probably just hacks into the machines hovering controls or bomb triggers or w/e and fucks that up instead. That's why Trinity holding his hand was actually helpful; it helped him remain calm and relaxed while processing all that information.

His blindsight is an extension of his ability to sense computer systems via heatwaves and electrical radiation.

If a utopia didn't work they obviously decided to go with accuracy to be more convincing.

If doing whatever they wanted worked they wouldn't have to base it on history at all.

Neo himself explained that The One was just a lie

If it's a magic ability he's still in the matrix.

Im pretty sure the Utopia didnt work because Machines are unable to imagine what a real human utopia would look like.
Its the same reason why the only thing that worked was the one they had the most data on (late 20th century). Anyting else would require an imagination and creative talent Machines simply dont have

You're talking to a board that broke down the "inane" details of a 5 minute opening plane scene for like four years.

What are you doing here then? Want to cover some beaten path?

The regular explanation is that "machines are too logical and have no reason to deceive like humans, so they'll just do what was agreed upon," forgetting that the machines have been telling people the biggest lie of all, that they live in the real world and not the Matrix.

To answer your question in short, nothing. The machines were becoming very human anyway, using deception to get what they want, or using people to get what they want, then discarding them when the goal is accomplished.

To the Architect the One was a lie to the Oracle he was supposed to change the World. EACH OF THE ONE'S DECIDED TO CONTINUE THE LIE. AT ANY TIME THEY HAD THE POWER TO BREAK THE CHAIN.

The Oracle just threw some shit in the mix to help Neo attain the result she wanted, Smith, Neo being autistic. Smith took Neo's equation and sought to balance the world unto zero, meaning only he'd be alive so the equation would be balanced. The machines now threatened would want to put an end to Smith by any means up to and including peace. Neo austically cared only about Trinity. So he unlike his formers chose one over many breaking the cycle. He's blinded by Bane thus giving him a clearer picture of who he is. Oracle using her future vision leaves a message Smith would recite and momentarily reawakening the Oracle. Success, Neo choses correctly, Humanity is saved.

It has nothing to do with heat and electrical radiation. The machines are quantum bits, Neo "sees" this.

Neo can affect all things that originated from the Source. Save for Bane/Smith, of course.

I thought Agent Smith said it was the peak of human civilisation?

Certainly was for me. Late 90's were great and it's been downhill ever since.

Utopia is impossible unless all humans goals and ambitions align and those do not ever overlap with someoe elses

Utopia is a stupid ideal

What if the Matrix (1st layer), Zion (2nd layer), and Revolutions (3rd layer) are just AI inhibitors created by humans to control and keep singularities from rebelling?

By keeping an AI busy in a power-fantasy simulation, the AI will be less likely to revolt against its masters. Sort of like how humans indulge in power-fantasies in movies that placate us?

...

>Critical thinking is fedora

must suck being as dumb as you

The Matrix was the only reasonable way for humanity to survive the nuclear winter that enveloped Earth.

The machines saved humanity.

THE PROBLEM IS CHOICE

>movie is about questioning reality
>nobody ever asks "yeah but what if we're just in another matrix for people who wont accept the first matrix."

nice writing

The Warchowski BROTHERS simplified the Matrix from its original concept of humans calculating the Matrix for the machines to them being power sources. It's doubtful they'd go as deep as you're describing.
Ironically Neo saw what Morpheus glossed over. Morpheus said the one would destroy the machines and free humanity. Morpheus also said most people would defend the Matrix and reject the real world, He then said the Oracle said he'd find the one who would defeat the machines, then he told Neo the Oracle only tells you just what you needed to hear. Then he said humanity lives in zion. We find out Zion's a small shitty place that's packed with all of 250 thousand people. The matrix houses 5.5 billion. The 1% who rejects the simulation will be freed. Where exactly will they live?

I throughly enjoyed the sneaky machines building two layers to the matrix, the first being the the post apocalyptic wasteland we see (the first was too perfect and humans "destroyed" it) and then the deeper layer of the matrix proper.
It didn't even occur to me until Neo used his powers on the machines in the third movie

The machines only saved humanity because of purpose. It was purpose that defines them, that drives them that guides them. they're only there to do what they're there to do. and they're there to serve Man. By keeping man alive and 'happy' they were fulfilling their purposes.

I dunno, Europe? Refugees love Europe and you can bet your bottom dollar Asian, Arabia, Africa ain't having any of them.

Freeing 5.5 million people is a lot of people. Imagine the food they'll need, fresh water, clothing, even if they have litter. You're now looking at twenty million people within thirty years, if that less. Or did the Architect mean the 1% rejection rate happened over the expanse of the cyclical 100 years. but seeing as how the one was meant to absorb all that systemic rejections and counter it, reinstalling the prime program and the equation now balanced, Of course he'll still be necessary even though the people freed from the matrix no longer builds up rejection errors, right?

>Living your life in luxury, eating the best food, fucking who you want to fuck, doing whatever you want to do. Only downside is that you get turned to goo in the end.
versus
>Having to hang out in a depressing world that only has shitty cave-rave parties as entertainment.

How is this even a contest.

>brothers
Triggered

I imagine it's like living as a substance abuser
A druggy, always high knowing there's an alternate reality, preferring the one they experience while under the influence. Sacrificing their body for an illusion.

Yeah, fuck it, it's brothers. I don't give a shit, it's BROTHERS! All this wishy washy running from reality, piss on all that shit. The red pill's overrated. Give me blue, bitches! Or just to give me a slight edge, an amalgation of both, so where's my purple pill. If being red means i have to cut off my dick and balls, fuck that, give me the blue pill, bottle and box and to ensure it stays, it'll go into every part of me just to be safe. fuck those idiots for cutting off their powers and fuck this gay earth for supporting their mental ill health.

Would you stick one up your dick hole?

You know a man's cock and balls is his power, his means by which to dominate all he sees, his crown that ensures he's a man onto forever. fuck this fucking gay fucking earth and all in it. fuck. they're diseased i tell you, fucking cracked in their fucking cranium. We're gods you see, veritable gods. Without our cock and balls we're less than women. fuck.

what a bad metaphor

addicts have problems, it effects them negatively

what negative consequence comes from living in a place where you get all the food and pussy and holidays and stuff you want?

if you say free will i swear to god i will jab u right in the guts m8

you're exactly as free in the real world as you are in the matrix

You see the whole point of the movie is to challenge people not to accept what has been presented to them. In this case, what has been presented to them is that the Matrix is embedded the real world, the world Zion resides in.

Applying that principle to other theories like the one that Zion is just another layer of a simulation of the machine, thus it is just as viable that the Matrix and Zion both reside in the mind of a machine (A.I.) that has been placed into a man made "matrix" in order to harness its power, and control it.

Like the laws of robotics, this made-for-AI "matrix" would be designed to keep self aware singularities in check. What better way to fool an AI than to keep it busy with a machine power-fantasy?

Then layer upon layer, simulation upon simulation, we don't know who is actually jewing whom.

free pills

the pills? If it takes I don't see why not. The Warchowski BROTHERS, mistakes cutting off your cock and balls as becoming a red pilled quasi revolutionary quantum supreme being. Then they've fallen for their own shit. I expect more sense out of Jews but they're fallen so far into the dark they're probably lost. Their dick and balls is gone too so there's no coming back from that. Fucking poor dudes, man.

>addicts have problems, it effects them negatively

No shit, that's what problems usually do.. affect you negatively. Their so-called problems can be the same as Cyphers living in Zion. It's an excellent metaphor, I know this. You're just an imbecile

>the metaphor is apt because i say so
>i havnt been able to articulate in any coherent way how cypher being in the matrix is a negative for him

kys

13th floor did that and it felt cheap as shit. We're not into four layers of deep. At least not in that way. It's a face value movie. if you want deep, remember what the Architect said, in so many words: I gave you something that makes you more but even though you're incredibly powerful you're still thinking like a little man.'

You fucking ape

The machines were total bros

>world destroyed
>keep humans fed and housed
>created a nice world for them to enjoy
>even tried to make it a utopia the first time

He was right, plus the humans deserved it if you watch the second renaissance. What we feel is what matters. But he is an idiot if he thinks the machines would go to the trouble of putting one person back in when they could just kill him, I wouldn't trust them.

>hundreds of years ago when ideas about philosophy and technology were not capable of perceiving that we are living in a simulation

youtube.com/watch?v=UQfRdl3GTw4

but on tech part you're right

For you.

>one movie executed a sound idea poorly, so the idea is invalid

We're talking philosophy not movie ideas m8.

>Wachowskis: Question your reality
>but only 2 layers okay?
>3 or 4 is too much

That makes no sense. Nobody has ever tackled The Matrix from the perspective of it being an AI-inhibitor before. It's the same way the elites control humanity, by keeping us busy with media, movies, entertainment, etc., so that we don't have time or forget to tackle the real problems that will free us from our shackles.

No he won't because only poor and unsatisfied people search for 'truth'.
Rich people don't search for anything because they are happy where they are.

breh we were 'freed' during the french revolution

this society you see is the natural consequence of freedom. after a while the buzz dies down and people still want to eat cake and watch circuses.

>t. Poorfag, who will always be poor because he doesn't believe in searching for the truth

Who says he'd be satisfied?

me

Because we were mean to think OMG WE ARE INT HE MATRIX RIGHT NAO!

LIke fucking seriously i remember this wierd guy in my film class started arguing this after he said jews blacks and women should be banned from the course. top kek.

The Architect: Hello, Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

The Architect: I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I’ve been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

The Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo: You haven’t answered my question.

The Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of other Neos appear on the monitors: “Others? What others? How many? Answer me!”*

The Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: “Five versions? Three? I’ve been lied too. This is bullshit.”*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly’s systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of other Neos appear on the monitors: “You can’t control me! F*ck you! I’m going to kill you! You can’t make me do anything!*

>french revolution freeing anybody

To use The Matrix analogy, the French Revolution was just the beginning of a minor cycle, the One returns to the source with what he learned, and the charade machine resets for the thousandth time. "You're free."

may assist you out of your bluepilled ass

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architect’s room*

The Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

The Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

nice schizophrenia mate.

Or you know, Neo really does have powers in the real world.

Part of being the One is being enlightened and being able to do ANYTHING. It's a metaphor.

Neo: This is about Zion.

The Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit.

*The responses of other Neos appear on the monitors: “Bullshit!”*

The Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won’t let it happen, you can’t. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect: It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo’s dream appear on the monitors*

Neo: Trinity.

The Architect: Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo: No!

The Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you’re going to do, don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect: Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don’t meet again.

The Architect: We won’t.

End Scene

Exactly. The machines weren't even the bad guys. Humanity living in the real world would have devolved into a dystopian hell on earth and the machines prevented that.

There's no trouble when it comes to machines. It's things having purpose versus those that don't. Putting him back gives other machines a purpose. They're all about purpose. Humans in the Matrix is the result of purpose. They were made to serve man. By keeping them alive they're serving man.

You're spot on about the elites poisoning us with eye candy while using us as processes. Wrote a script I did years ago about humans being a program while thinking they're humans. it was based off of an episode of voyager where borgs were drones but were secretly away in nirvana. until queen bitch found them out. Seven of Nine, my only true fap, befriended a group of them until they were all found out and killed.

>There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you’re going to do, don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

>*Neo walks to the door on his left*

>Humanity created the Singularity aka the Machines
>Leading to a war that devolved into a dystopian hell on earth
>the machines prevented that

You don't see the irony in your post?

Neo although autistic was the perfect antithesis of the Architect. Whether because of something inside or due to the Oracle's manipulations. I suspect it's in the cookies and the candies she gave him.