Trump addressed the UN, he is back to some of his old lies. For him to say these things isn't out of character for him, but to say them on the world stage? Where is the tact?
So, I was hoping a Trump supporter or two might see this thread and attempt to give me a genuine answer. Do you really think the things he says are true, and that the evidence to the contrary is just fabricated by the opposition? Or do you acknowledge that he tends to lie, and how does that make you feel?
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I used to support Trump and was really happy he won the election... But it turns out he's just another liar and a ZOG-puppet that doesnt keep any of his promises.
It's weird after how much shit the right gave the left for basically worshipping Obama they went and did the same thing with Trump but on steroids.
Trump is a symptom, not the problem itself. We can't just go back to pre-Trump politics (the swamp, as he put it) because it'd just breed another populist expression of anger. If the left doesn't drop failed neo-liberal policy I fear we'd just end up back where we are. I say this as a raging left tard; Trump is our fault as much as it is the GOP's. If you neglect people and give them no chance at decent political representation they'll vote with anger as their primary motivation, and rightly so. It's a shame there wasn't someone able to actually address their situation, and their only choice was voting for the guy causing the most upset.
Thanks for your response, assuming it is true.
If you were actually a trump supporter, what were your thoughts when he lied? did you think that he was really telling the truth and the opposition was fabricating evidence?
ITS A WONDERFUL NIGHT FOR EYEBROWS
>Trump is our fault as much as it is the GOP's.
Shit like this makes me laugh.
>I'm a raging left tard
>spouts Bernie and Trump campaign rhetoric
>pretends that Trump won the popular vote
can you please practice your false flagging? there are trump general threads on Sup Forums and the sub-reddit.
ignoring that, since even if you are a stormfag technically I am asking for opinions, could you address the issue in OP? when he tells overt lies, what is your opinion? do you think he is lying or what?
How come? I think it's pretty obvious that the lefts failed attempts at centrist policy and insistence on pushing unpopular neo-liberal candidates had a big part to play in Trump's victory. People were voting with 'Not Hilary' in mind as much as they were pro-Trump. I think it's a bit naive to reduce this massive political crisis to 'huh duh those right wing idiots elected an idiot', did you feel everything was perfect before Trump? Would reversing time and going back to how things were be any better?
Anger, yes and yes
>Would reversing time and going back to how things were be any better?
I'm no Hillary fan but this is an easy yes.
user I'm often called far-left for expressing my views, I'm no stormfag. Sorry if that came across as bashing the left, it was more a comment on how our political system is fucked all round so of course we'll end up with fucked politicians like Trump.
As for my opinion on OP, I think Trump lies and I expect most of his voter base knows that. I think they believe lying is part of politics, just a given, and so they don't mind as long as it's 'their guy' doing the lying. I think Trumps motivation is primarily in keeping what support he has, so he'll just say whatever his fan club want him too to secure those tasty votes.
tl;dr-Very few people believe what Trump says, but they don't believe any politician so that doesn't matter to them. It's all just part of politics.
So then we're back in the situation that allows a populist to win the hearts of the disenfranchised, and we're back here. This was my point; we can't just go back and pretend nothing happened, it has to lead to political change rather than burying our head in the sand over our broken system and failed policy making. Sure in the short term it would seem so bad, but all of what you see in the current political climate would be just under the surface.
She won the popular vote. Just as many citizens that voted for Trump voted for Hillary, and then some. Why do you keep framing it as if he won by some kind of landslide?
Also, I am the OP, not the other guy you are derailing the thread with. Can you answer the question and slow down with the stormfagging?
The electoral college failed the country.
No idea how you place the same amount of blame on the left aside from concern trolling.
Just count the legal ones and non dead voters.
thanks for the honest answer.
also, if people call you far-left then you must be hanging out with a bunch of neo-nazis. nothing you have suggested would indicate to me that you have ever voted for anyone other than a conservative.
I take this as meaning you are the kind of person who believes the opposition is fabricating evidence?
so then, my question for you, what exactly would need to happen before you start to believe that Trump has been disingenuous?
As long as the republicans don't try and fuck up the future of this country again by nominating another dumbass reality TV star we should be fine.
So basically we are screwed.
>She won the popular vote. Just as many citizens that voted for Trump voted for Hillary, and then some. Why do you keep framing it as if he won by some kind of landslide?
Not intentional. I was trying to frame it as a populist being able to game a broken system, though a combination of disenfranchised people and outdated electoral law, to win the presidency despite not having the popular vote. This was my point; the combination of failing neo-liberal policy making and the ability of Trump to pour massive amounts of resources into selected states allowed him to win without a focus on any clear policy.
tl;dr-Trump is a sign that our political system/policy making needs a lot of work, and simply undoing Trump won't fix the problems that lead to Trump.
>Also, I am the OP, not the other guy you are derailing the thread with. Can you answer the question and slow down with the stormfagging?
See
>it's the republicans fault
Try again, nigger.
I'll place some blame on how bad public education has been and how dumb this country is but yes most of the blame for having a giant orange manbaby reality TV star in our highest office lays at the feet of the republicans.
>No idea how you place the same amount of blame on the left
Not just the left, the right and the center too. Everyone, not just Trump voters, for allowing those at the top to shit on everyone bellow, for not taking politics seriously enough, for allowing corporate cronyism, for not seeking electoral reform and so on. It's not a right/left thing in my eyes and I might have been misleading for wording it as such. Hope that clarifies.
I live in the UK and have always voted left, either Greens or Labour depending on manifestos and the like. I just accept that the politics I subscribe to is imperfect too, and that a failing political system is everyone's fault, not just the fault of reactionaries.
Elton John and Donald Trump made a deal a few weeks back. Now what is he calling that one guy?
Coincidence? I think not.
>failing neo-liberal policy
>populists are gaming the system
see what you keep doing? how can you, in one hand, acknowledge that the system was gamed by Trump and then place equal blame on the opposition? at least half of this country agreed with the "neo-liberal" policies but their opinions ultimately did not matter. they all voted, more so than the populists, but the system was exploited in favor of the later.
since I think my question was answered by yourself and a few others, I will shift focus onto some of your points.
>simply undoing Trump wont fix the problems that lead to Trump
what problems? a good portion of his voter base have extreme racial bias. he started his campaign bid on bigotry. are you saying that overt racism is to blame for his election? sure, I can see that, but fixing the problem should not include non-racists adopting more racist views in order to reach out to the other side.
>inb4 "hurr durr everyone I don't like is a Nazi racist"
to even suggest that Trumps support does not draw heavy from bigotry is willful ignorance.
haha yeah there's no evidence of those assertions, like so much that dribbles out of Trump's anus into the mouths of his hungry baby birds
not to toss out your opinions, but your observation of the US political climate is about as insightful and an American's observation on UK political climate.
also, just placing equal blame on everyone doesn't get us anywhere. those who are responsible get off easy, and those who are not responsible get their reputation tarnished for no reason. your desire to allow those directly responsible to have no accountability greater than anyone else really makes me think you are much more conservative than you are letting on.
>how can you, in one hand, acknowledge that the system was gamed by Trump and then place equal blame on the opposition
Trump was only able to game the election because of mass disenfranchisement. If more people voted or if less people reactionary voted, he'd have had a much harder time exploiting the gaps in the US voting system. That's the fault of everyone who's allowed for the issues as described in I'm not saying the left is responsible for Trump, I'm saying the left takes part of the responsibility for the situation that led to Trump.
>what problems?
Prostitution of politicians at the hand of corporations, a lack of electoral reform for some time, low voter turn outs, lack of trust for the ability of politics to be a force for good, large areas of the US being allowed to live in poverty or is deteriorating conditions, lack of prospects in these same areas and so on. It's a cocktail of angry, disenfranchised voters and a dated electoral system bulging at the seams. That's on all of our heads, not just Trump voters, and undoing Trump doesn't fix any of these residual issues.
Elton John and Donald Trump made a deal a few weeks back. Now what is he calling that one guy?
Coincidence? I think not.
>implying both sides can't be fucking up
You're an absolute sheep if you think one side is flawless because you don't like the other. Keep sipping that kool-aid far-winged nutjob.
I don't think you know how presidential campaigns work.
They parties have primaries and the republicans had many times to vote him yet they didn't and he eventually won the nominee.
Democrats cannot vote in those races.
>but your observation of the US political climate is about as insightful and an American's observation on UK political climate.
Fair point, no arguments there.
>also, just placing equal blame on everyone doesn't get us anywhere.
I disagree, I'm saying it less literally than you're framing it as. I think maybe the use of 'blame' here is causing some misunderstanding; I don't think the left are literally to blame for Trump but they certianly didn't do enough to help the issues that lead to Trump. See
as I'd rather not type it twice. Not a blame/repercussions thing, rather an indicator that some ideological change is needed in the left. More of the same will only lead to more situations like Trump, that was my point from the start. It's about using Trump to grow rather than simply demonising his supporters and pushing them further away.
I simply don't know how you took from my reply that I thought Democrats voted in the primaries. I think we have crossed wires desu
kill the president
That wasn't the point.
The point was that the republicans had plenty of opportunities to vote Trump out and didn't yet you're still applying blame to everyone/thing but the republicans.
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All politicians lie. Why would Trump be any different?
Oh great another politics thread on Sup Forums. Prepare to read the dumbest most fucking retarded shit you ever read in your life.
We're going round in circles mate. I'll say it once more to try and clear things up;
>People don't trust politics, because both the left and the right gave them no reason to
>This led to Trump being able to gain power
>People don't understand electoral reform well enough, because the left and the right did nothing to push it
>This lead to an easy to exploit electoral system
>People were angry and happy to use their vote as a 'Fuck you!', because the left and the right both ignored them
>This lead to Trump being the go-to anti-establishment vote
>The left and the right allowed for corporate cronyism
>This lead to a Corporate crony being the GOP candidate
Trump is the fault of the GOP's failings. Trump's success is has a lot more context to consider and is not so easily explained. I'm not placing blame on any specific group, I'm saying a better electoral system and political climate is everyone responsibility. Putting your fingers in your ears and yelling 'FUCK THE GOP TRUMP VOTERS ARE DUMB' is true, but reductionist and naive in the grand scheme of things.
Sure the system is far from perfect especially with the GOP gerrymandering but it has worked fine for hundreds of years until now.
I'll point my fingers at those responsible.
/thread
>but it has worked fine for hundreds of years until now.
So everything was peachy until Trump? No lasting issues, no point looking at context or trying to prevent mistakes from the past? Just as simple as rewinding time and trusting that'll sort it all?
What about the law passed in the mid-2000's that lead to Corporations being treated as beings, and therefore given political sway akin to you and me?
What about the cronyism of previous governments on both sides, like Nixon or Clinton?
What about the failed electoral promises of Obama, such at GitMo, or the hugely unpopular wars of Bush?
Like I said there's plenty of context to our current political climate and you're acting like all this anger and outrage just cropped up because those darn republicans did the bad thing. They did do the bad thing, but they're not alone in doing so and it all plays into the political crisis we're currently facing. Seems very single-issue focused to put this down to just bad luck or whatever.
>People don't trust politics, because both the left and the right gave them no reason to
you keep saying stuff like that, but the only people who think every politician is a crook are the kind of people who bought into Trump's lies. granted, this might somehow be part of your larger point, but you keep framing it as tho the vast majority of citizens think like Trump, which the popular vote demonstrates to be untrue.
>This led to Trump being able to gain power
Gerrymandering led to that. Unchecked gerrymandering, but gerrymandering none the less. exploitation of a broken system is not the same as winning the hearts and minds of the people.
>People don't understand electoral reform well enough, because the left and the right did nothing to push it
I guess? but the thing is, it is a system that can be gamed so those who aim to game it have a vested interest in keeping the system in place. the Democratic Party has pushed for several reforms, but it gets shut down at the local level by Republican leadership. if you are interested, I can link you to the failed bills.
>This lead to an easy to exploit electoral system
See previous
>People were angry and happy to use their vote as a 'Fuck you!', because the left and the right both ignored them
I guess, but a lot of people were voting the whole "Never Hillary" thing because of the extreme misinformation campaign as well as general Swift boating.
>This lead to Trump being the go-to anti-establishment vote
See previous.
>The left and the right allowed for corporate cronyism
If the left is responsible for that, there is no way it can even compare to the right since cronyism is basically a platform for them.
>This lead to a Corporate crony being the GOP candidate
That isn't how party primaries work in this country. Nomination is not based on general elections, its closed elections for registered party voters.
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Hi Supreme Leader!
>granted, this might somehow be part of your larger point
It is exactly my point, yes.
>but you keep framing it as tho the vast majority of citizens think like Trump
Not intentional, but enough people did (in the right places) to make him PotUS so he evidently did something right.
>exploitation of a broken system is not the same as winning the hearts and minds of the people.
He didn't need to, he's PotUS without. He exploited a broken system that both the right and the left allowed to stay broken, that was my point.
> if you are interested, I can link you to the failed bills.
Please do, it'll be interesting to see if it was properly supported by the left or pushed aside like Sanders. If it were the latter, I'd suggest I'm right in saying the left holds some responsibility for keeping the system broken.
>I guess, but a lot of people were voting the whole "Never Hillary" thing because of the extreme misinformation campaign as well as general Swift boating.
Agreed, but the media conglomerates exploit laws passed by both the left and the right to assume such massive power. They're a beast of all of our creation, not just the rights. See Citizens United v FEC 2010, which was bipartisan and allowed unchecked spending by corporations for political causes.
>If the left is responsible for that, there is no way it can even compare to the right since cronyism is basically a platform for them.
See cases such as the one above for what I mean when I say both sides hold some responsibility
>That isn't how party primaries work in this country. Nomination is not based on general elections, its closed elections for registered party voters.
Thanks for clarifying. It's been a good chat, hope you've come to understand my point a bit more as it was never an outright attack on the left, more of a call to look at what we could do better. I actually agree with most of what you said for what it's worth. Much love user.
If you dont see the difference in what they said. and not just the badly snipped part of the comments. You sir are a new kind of retard
and you're back to crying.
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
sure kid
>muh popular vote
If popular vote mattered then the only States that would matter are the big coastal ones. Maybe popular vote would matter if we had voter id so there isn't massive (MASSIVE) voter fraud. Trump did win by a landslide with the electoral college.
5/10 I replied on my lunch break you pathetic inbred swine
because they are not democrats
what part do you not uderstand about that kid?
and once more it is nothing more than your bullshit opinion.
sure kid
cry more bitch millennial
plays the blame game
sure kid
>if the popular vote mattered then the only States what would matter are the ones where most of the population lives
>massive voter fraud
>only for democrats tho, stfu bout Russia lol amirtie?
kek
is that you share blue, is that me?
Lol you're fucking retarded you don't even have a response for these people you fucking loser.
When the samefag comes out and white knights for a politician.
>kek
Nice life you got there bro.
what lies?
>asking for a friend
>the world stage
don't be retard
fact check: massive voter fraud does not exist
the solar eclipse is made up by China to push the global warming agenda. trump straight up called them out by looking right at it. wake the fuck up. you can read all about it in Hillary's emails.
Name one thing he said was bad or a lie. His UN speech was amazing.
>doesnt keep any of his promises.
pastabin
com/
Erx7YZ1p
Your welcome.
Remove the "a" in pastbin obviously.
what happened to the infograph? did you stormfags realize everyone knows its all bullshit propaganda so now you are spreading it as a pastebin text? fucking kek
>Why do you keep framing it as if he won by some kind of landslide?
Because he did. The popular vote is pretty meaningless. For example many people who live in a a very blue or red state and are of the opposing view simply don't vote as they think its a waste of time. And the bluest areas typically have very high populations.
lulz
(really hope you're trollin)
The Trump acc. info-graph? It' too big to post on Sup Forums.
>those who support Trump are stormfags
>people actually believe this
Top kek m8.
>actually stormfagging
>lol u just call me a stormfag because I'm stormfagging
you guys are getting lazy
I legitimately want to know what was bad about it.
His main points were
1.) Kim needs to cut this shit out or he will be wasted
2.) The UN needs to do its job, and people need to pay their share
3.) A leaders first priority is to its citizens
4.) Venezuela didn't "fail because socialism was implemented incorrectly, but because it was implemented faithfully"
5.) Communism is also crap
Name one problem with any of his key points.
covfefe!!
>anyone who likes free speech and facts over feels is a storm fag
>people actually believe this
Tell me, did your parents kill themselves after they found out you are retarded?
conflating Iran and Venezuela with the Norks
neither are threatening anyone with nuclear weapons
anyways, stay dumb faggot
He looked at it for a fraction of a second, with is 100 safe. Stop being a fear mongering retard.
covfefe!!
which encouraged thousands of young children to follow his example but they didn't know about the fraction of a second part so now they are blind and it is because he is a horrible role model in addition to being an overall horrible person.
>true story
He never said Venezuela was, just that their people are shit.
He also said the main issue with Iran is their support of Hezbollah.
Stop conflating things and watch the damn speech. And again, tell me one thing wrong with his main points (though I will admit I forgot about Iran as a main point, but it was still a good one).
And why wouldn't they know that? Because if they watched him they would know. Only "news" organizations posted the still pic. And guess what? IT WOULD STILL BE FINE. I takes a stupid amount of time staring at the sun for permanent "sun spots" to occur. And any kid who doesn't know staring at it for long periods is bad (either from a lack of parenting, basic common sense, or the immediate psychical response not to) deserves their fate.
covfefe!!
"Frankly, that [Iran nuclear]deal is an embarrassment to the United States.…It is time for the entire world to join us in demanding that Iran's government end its pursuit of death and destruction."
The International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, found Iran to be in compliance. Iran has twicebarely crept overits limit for "heavy water," a liquid that can be used nuclear reactors, but that those were considered minor infractions.
He talked about Iran using oil profits to fund Hezbollah, but that is just global politics in general.
> She won the popular vote.
She won nothing. There isn't a popular vote.
The "popular vote" is an invention of the Democrats.
All winning the "popular vote" means is you ran as a Democrat and lost the election.
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> The electoral college failed the country.
It sure did. Far too many voted Hillary.
don't be retard
Thanks for the salt! Enjoy the next 8ish years!
Sorry. Didn't mean to take your job.