Robin Carolan's statement on Björk's control over her music

Do you believe him Sup Forums?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_revival
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Of course not. Even in that statement he leaves plenty of wiggle room for her to do basically nothing (though I'm sure she does more than basically nothing). It's her "vision" yeah ok... that doesn't specifically mean she writes produces or plays even one thing.

I'm sure she does a ton of stuff, writes all the lyrics, melodies, harmony, makes arrangement decisions, etc. but it's obvious that she doesn't "do everything" to the extent that her or her PR people, or whoever it is in her camp who's so obsessed over this is always trying to portray.

For instance. Vespertine is one record she claims to have "spent 3 years collecting sounds", "did everything", etc., but Undo and Cocoon are both basically unaltered loops from a producer named Opiate who she was probably dating at the time. If she was honest about that and said, "yeah, I did everything except these two songs are basically 100% someone elses work" that would be truthful and I'd be inclined to believe her claims in general as to how much she does. Instead she just lies and doesn't mention the dude who pretty much entirely made the best beats on the album....

Then you have Vulnicura which she also claims she made basically 100% before sending it to Arca. Listen to the sound design on Family. What's more likely? Bjork learned exactly how to make beats exactly like Arca, made an Arca track, and then sent it to him to put his touch on it, or Arca just made the track and signed a nondisclosure agreement in exchange for the massive exposure that being featured on a Bjork album comes with? Same for various other beats on the album.

She's clearly insecure about how much she does, and has made demonstrable omissions (or lies depending on how you see it) about it in the past (the Opiate thing). Seems to suggest she has something to hide. If you really do everything, you probably don't give a fuck. What other musician do you see constantly clamoring to tell you how much they do with their own music?

>she is the boss
>100 percent
>writes
>produces
>composes
>sings
>lot of wiggle room
explain.

One way of satisfying that statement: write one verse, produce on section of one track, sing. Yeah. There's massive wiggle room there. And as I said, I wold guess she does write all the lyrics, melodies, and does most arrangement and harmony decisions herself. It's just clear that she has an issue about it and has been dishonest about it in the past which is unfortunate.

Okay, that makes sense. I suppose I should pose a more important question now that you've stated your beliefs. Does it actually matter how much she does on these records? Also, where do you believe her insecurity about her work rises from?

That cover of "It's Oh So Quiet" was just a cheap attempt to jump on the 90s swing revival fad. I'm sure that some record company suit insisted on it.

>write one verse, produce on section of one track, sing
Except that's not 100%, as it was stated.

>attempt to jump on the 90s swing revival fad
[citation needed]

Bjork proves the old adage that people whose first language isn't English can't emote in English properly.

What relevance does that hold here?

I like that song.

It's a good song, I like the way she performs it live too.

Have you even heard Gling-Glo?

And even if it was just a bandwagon attempt, why can't she be the initiator of said bandwagoning? Bjork is perfectly capable of making her own shitheaded decisions.

This. I hate it when we strip away responsibility from the artist. I remember seeing someone saying Volta was a blemish Timbaland left on her career when only two tracks on the entire album were produced by him.

>What other musician do you see constantly clamoring to tell you how much they do with their own music?
Generally people don't assume a collaborator does all the work because they're guys.

she is a singer and a visual artist, telling me she is the "boss" doesn't make me feel any better about these projects. it's not like she is doing her own makeup either.

her credits in music are always minor, programmed, performed, or arranged by alongside 20 engineers and producers, it's not really 'her' vision.

>it's not really 'her' vision.
Now this could be debatable. Perhaps she uses her vast selection of producers and engineers as a way to facilitate her vision, as Robin said?

that fad only started to slowly pick up steam for mainstream audiences in 1996 and was full blown in 98-99, brainlet

>programmed, performed, or arranged
in what sense is this not the majority of the work?

>engineers and producers
so by definition people who are credited as engineers and producers do everything?

>a producer named Opiate who she was probably dating at the time.
I know this is a small part of your post but I'm pretty sure she was dating Matthew Barney at the time.

>Perhaps she uses her vast selection of producers and engineers as a way to facilitate her vision, as Robin said?
That's certainly the traditional way of doing things, and generally the way you want to work if you're recording a variety of instruments in a real studio environment rather than just staring at Ableton in a dirty bedroom.

how is it not her vision if it's her own idea and she's telling them what to do. what does makeup even have to do with this.

so, if she has an interesting idea for makeup and hires someone to do it, it's not her idea anymore? why do autists even nitpick about these mundane things. nvm answered my own question

Can't believe I didn't see him say this, yeah the whole album is about her relationship with Matthew at the time.

Ah, but Barry the man dropped this dope shit (just kidding, actually it's just shit) in 1994, even before Post came out.

she communicates her vision and it's interpreted by several other peoples artistic talents, you can associate it with her, but it's not really hers

But at that point it wasn't really a trend, correct?

But in the end, is it not her who decides what goes into the final product? Are these artists' interpretations of her idea not moot if they don't communicate ot the way she would like?

So by your logic no artist is really their own artist, because ALL of them rely on other musicians, engineers and producers.

...

This is kind of a retarded and overly inflexible interpretation of it. Because you're invested in viewing it that way and diminishing her contributions.

The writer and director of a film don't build the sets themselves. They don't do the special effects. But they still get the credit.

No I don't really care how much she does since I'm sure that for most tracks it's close to everything anyways. And I'm sure she writes the lyrics and songs herself which is the center of her music. So it doesn't matter to me at all really. I don't know why she's weird about it. May have something to do with having been put out as a "child star" kind of thing when she was too young which might make her feel like she looks fake to people or something.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_revival

It built up gradually and climaxed in 1998-ish.

Hey guys check out this classic car I restored 100% on my own
>wow, how did you do it?
I dropped it off at a shop and gave them a check
>wait, so you didn't do the restoration
Yes, I did. It was my vision that I accomplished by giving money to someone to do.

bedroom autists don't, and evidently they're the only ones who actually have the right to claim complete control over their work

oh wait, they're actually dependent on the efforts of many others who develop the tools they use; it's actually the people who program VST presets who really deserve the credit

oh wow thanks 1998 now if only someone had said th-

This situation would acutally be more akin to being the designer of a brand new car and having a team of manufacturers and engineers to make the car.

...I'm kind of amazed that someone would actually think this is a sensible argument

...

cars are too complex to attribute to one person, or small group of people; the person who designs the body doesn't really design the car, but just contributes a small part of it, inevitably someone else conceived the overall idea, specified the engine, intended features, price, etc. the analogy doesn't really work

It's well understood that no one person is "100% responsible" for the production of a new car

>paying a team of people to execute your project while taking credit for it is totally different than paying a team of people to execute your project while taking credit for it

I see, the conflict between being seen as no more than a brand icon when trying to attempt srrious artistry?

> You can't fly to Korea. Korea's an island.

See

you don't seem to have any reasoning skills at all, so continuing to attempt to communicate with you is a waste of time

That doesn't count for Scandinavian languages. It's been proven.

>>paying a team of people to execute your project while taking credit for it is totally different than paying a team of people to execute your project while taking credit for it
The difference is she is directly involved, while you are not directly involved. That is why you made a False Equivalency

Nice try though

This too. She doesn't just fucking drop a bag of cash in the studio and say "Make an album".

Yeah, typically the expected relationship is female singer and producer, where the perception is that Britney Spears sings and dances and acts and the public face and Max Martin does all the "hard stuff".

Bjork seems to find that working with anyone else for any reason, really anything short of "look guys here I am literally doing this by myself, all alone with my laptop in my fucking pajamas at 4 AM" is taken to be the Britney Spears/Max Martin relationship.

Post [Elektra, 1995]

This well-regarded little item rekindles my primeval suspicion of Europeans who presume to "improve" on rock and roll (or for that matter Betty Hutton, originator of the best song here). I don't miss the Sugarcubes' guitars per se so much as their commitment to the groove, which--sporadic though it would remain, Iceland not being one of your blues hotbeds--might shore up the limited but real intrinsic interest of her eccentric instrumentation, electronic timbres, etc. Then there's her, how shall I say it, self-involved vocal devices. Which brings us to, right, her lyrics, which might hit home harder if she'd grown up speaking the English she'll die singing, but probably wouldn't. Anybody out there remember Dagmar Krause? German, Henry Cow, into artsong and proud of it? Well, take my word for it. She was no great shakes either. But at least she had politics. C+

Nah, she’s on an indie label, she does what she wants, she does sort of regret doing it now though.

She’s weird about it because people keep on not believing her, or press don't give her credit, a couple of articles for Blissing Me said the new album was produced soley by Arca, when they both co produced it. She even said she did most of it yet again. This thread is an example of this. Loads of musicians don’t write and produce everything, yet Björk does and it’s always brought into question for some reason. There’s a few documentaries with her in the studio or on her laptop making music, she’s talked in depth about her songwriting and recording process, Carolan, Arca and Nellee Hooper and others have said she does nearly all the work, Hooper initially refused to return for Post as he thought she could do it all by herself, but she likes collaborating. How much proof do people need.

Just because she had other musicians and programmers, doesn’t mean she doesn’t do most of the work, most albums have way more. What do people want her to do? Become a one-woman orchestra?

Yeah something like that probably. Also, like the other poster said - she's in the female pop singer role and most people in that role don't do things themselves so it probably makes her insecure about it.

>so, if she has an interesting idea for makeup and hires someone to do it, it's not her idea anymore?
Bjork is known for hiring people with interesting (at least to her) ideas and incorporating those ideas into her own works - not the other way around. Case in point - the album cover for Utopia is just an example of Jesse Kanda doing his own thing (in the same vein as pic related - another Jesse Kanda work that posters here might recognize...) Bjork using an example of his distinctive artwork for the cover of her album doesn't make his distinctive style of artwork her idea.

Saw it, dumb post, what do you want an applause?

>I'm right but I can't explain why, so I quit!
Great position to take, you got me dude!

>directly involved
I bought the shell and picked the color, plus put up the money, can't get more direct than that.


Look, I am a musician and I restore classic cars, I am also much smarter than any poster in this thread. The analogy is perfect. On the last restoration I did I wanted to do a lacquer paint job for that specific look from the pre urethane era. I had never done a lacquer job before. It would have been very easy for me to just pay someone else to do it, and the results would have been better. It also would have fulfilled my final vision for the car. Instead I spent several hundred hours learning and practicing lacquer paint. In the end the paint job wasn't all that great. But I was 100% responsible for it. I understand when a very creative musician wants to accomplish a certain sound, a new sound, the best option to achieve results is to hire on producers and engineers that have already pioneered it. That's not 100%. Paying someone to do "your idea" is not your music, even if the results are more true to how you imagined it than it would have been had you done it yourself. If you are truly creative and intelligent you will understand this (I know most of you aren't in this thread though).

In a sense it is, really. I've seen many people on this board discredit her as an artist and treat her as you would any top 40 popstar, and don't even get me started on that one obsessive Grimesposter.

Why does her son look like Bob Seger?

>Look, I am a musician
How many published songs do you have? How long have you been gigging? How many bands have you played in?

hey man I like Dagmar Krause

Christgau is great when he's on point but the other half the time he's just off the map entirely

As stated in my post I believe she probably does everything or almost everything for most tracks. What "more" I would like from her is honesty. As stated, there are demonstrable instances in which she claimed to have "done everything" for an album in her typical style, when she clearly didn't do nearly everything for at least a couple tracks. She should just be honest instead of being defensive and dishonest.

...

She looks like a discount Marina and the Diamonds these days

His review of that Barry Manilow album was pretty spot-on and hilarious.

What's your favorite episode of Rick and Morty? What can I do if I feel like I'm just not getting the show? pls help.

Fuck off. Talk about the topic at hand.

The thing is, it's kind of an easy assumption to make. I'd found myself assuming similar things about other artists (Miharu Koshi, for example), and learn later that they do the bulk of the work but prefer to collaborate for creative stimulation. I wouldn't have assumed that about a male artist. By default men get more credit.

That’s fair. My post wasn’t specifically calling you out by the way, mainly a few people on here that believe other producers do most of the work when that’s clearly not the case.

true. I am so bad at doing that lately.

t. certified bait and shitposter

So I suppose her and Robin's point stand to some extent, right?
Don't worry, I just don't want this to turn from good discussion to a waifubait thread.

>What do people want her to do? Become a one-woman orchestra?
Yes, and recording technician. She better mic her own instruments, plug in her own cables and make her own coffee.

>So by your logic no artist is really their own artist, because ALL of them rely on other musicians, engineers and producers.
Different user. Yes, except for the ones (like Grimes or Lupa J.) who DON'T rely on other musicians, engineers, and producers to make their art for them.

To be clear, I'm not saying that an artist has to make all of their own shit for their shit to be good. But if you're gonna go around marketing yourself as an artistically independent solo act while also openly relying on other artistic professionals to augment your artistic output - you're gonna get blowback .

It isn't even that most people in that role don't do things themselves- the problem is that it's assumed by default because people lack the ability to imagine it could be any other way. She's not the one with the problem.

>Yes, except for the ones (like Grimes or Lupa J.) who DON'T rely on other musicians,
Grimes doesn't master her own music. She also has a publicist and a road crew. She relies on others just as well.

>I am also much smarter than any poster in this thread.
lol, get a load of this retard

Nice you guys almost got to the second step of the pyramid. You'll have to do better than that though, maybe hire someone to form a counterpoint for you while taking credit for it.

>But they still get the credit.
Yeah, for writing or directing and NOT for set design (unless they actually did that too.)

>Nice you guys almost got to the second step of the pyramid
Just pointing out your Appeal to Authority in defense of your False Equivalency

Still waiting for a valid argument. Are you going to answer my question? You made two unsubstantiated claims, I wonder if you can back them up.

I think a major problem here is that "producer" is ambiguous and not specific at all. It ranges from "I help the artist record and mix" to "I do everything but the vocals".

>others are morally obligated to participate in my retarded argument even though I'm repeating myself and haven't made a decent point yet

kind of like how albums list credits for things too

>She also has a publicist
Many publicists, some of whom spam Sup Forums daily.

I doubt that. Sup Forums can't be very important. Especially for an established artist with a permanent, dedicated fanbase.

It literally made Fartano, Odd Future and Death Grip's careers

If you want to make an artist appear to have a grass roots following, you can anonymously plant it in Sup Forums to create buzz.

Lorde's producer used to post here before PH came out.

>but she likes collaborating.
People who actually like collaborating don't waste time whining whenever people point out that they like apparently like collaborating. I have no doubts that plenty of people in the music industry are prone to belittling her self-directed talents for making music (since successful lindependent operators are always anathema to ANY kind of industry), but the reason why the "Bjork doesn't make her own music" meme persists after all these years is because of what she says vs what she does. You can't market yourself as an independent diy artist while also employing DOZENS of artistic collaborators to assist you in making entire albums of music which you then release under your own name.

they have to be gud for Sup Forums to pass a band around. We have the best music taste in all 7 continents, including Rode Island

But how many people actually come here? Post rate seems to suggest the number is low. And I see people making the same post, copying ideas they heard in other threads, etc., all the time. Seems like there are like 20 people here.

Post has aged pretty poorly anyway.

>gud for Sup Forums to pass a band around
Then explain Kanye West and Odd Future and other memerap bullshit
>But how many people actually come here?
Doesn't matter when it's an endless sea of anons. 20 people could appear to be 20,000. Especially if one or two anons samefag the same ideas and make it seem like it's a status quo (see Stormfront's propaganda on Sup Forums)

Right but if there aren't that many people here in total, then how would spamming the board influence anything outside of here?

Kanye West kek he was in the mainstream for decades dude

Non sequitor
See

just looked up your fancy meme word, yes it does follow. Why would Sup Forums need to make Kanye West popular dude? y'all playin!

>Why would Sup Forums need to make Kanye West popular dude?
That's not what I said. Learn2read

You misread the post. He wasn't saying Sup Forums made Kanye. He was saying "if Sup Forums only passes around good bands, explain why Kanye and meme rap are posted so often", i.e. he was saying Kanye is bad. Which is true.

Mixing and mastering aren't part of the CREATIVE process behind making music. They are part of the NON-CREATIVE process of taking already-created music and making it listenable by end consumers. Hence why the Grammys classifies things like mixing and mastering as CRAFTS rather than arts, and subjects Grammy nominations for mixing, mastering and the like to pre-screening by Craft Committees (see pic related.)

Also, why are you ignoring Lupa J's existence?

There's a Grammy for best album notes? What a WANK. Hope none of you watch that shit.

>Mixing and mastering aren't part of the CREATIVE process behind making music.
It certainly can be. See: Oasis, Metallica, etc.

Regardless, it is an aspect of her art she needs other people for. Nice goalpost shifting though
>Hence why the Grammys
Irrelevant

>Also, why are you ignoring Lupa J's existence?
I don't even know who the fuck that is. But since it was brought up by someone who is using The Grammy's as some sort of rubric, I'd assume it's just garbage of little musical interest or merit

ok but a band doesn't have to be "passed around'" if they were already famous.

OK but learn2read

>Metallica
I'm not sure ruining albums counts as creative

>Regardless, it is an aspect of her art she needs other people for.
along with every other artist, not sure what your point is

lrn2comprehend

>my opinion on the quality of the Metallica's mastering is...
Not relevant.
>along with every other artist, not sure what your point is
Did you read the thread, dipshit?
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