Fuck this garbage

>Take a bullshit concept that does not make any sense at all
>act like it somehow makes sense


Seriously... I see that there are theories(?) or some shit about time not being linear or whatever, but making movies on this concept that does not make sense at all (yet?) is just fucking retarded. What? future, past and present exists at the same time somehow? Fucking bullshit. Stop trying to cash out a stupid concept for fuck's sake. It's nothing but bullshit, and that fact is not gonna change any fucking TIME soon.
I'm so fucking pissed that I wasted my time and money on this shit again.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_color_naming_debate
youtube.com/watch?v=pFrMLRQIT_k
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

It's called science FICTION

its called being sick of hollywood trash movies

It's called SCIENCE FICTION, so it's supposed to be at least somewhat believable, that's the whole fucking point isn't it?

You know the language thing is a real scientific theory, right?

Which language thing?

Seriously, go back.

It sounds like it just flew way over your head. Clearly it made sense to many people.

You're a complete fucking retard. That being said, humans gaining the ability to see through time just because they read some alien symbols is pure stupidity.

Do autists really get this anally devasted over fictional movies/and or nuanced concepts they don't get the first time? Jesus Christ, end yourself now. There's no hope for you outside of your basement.

You can be talking about multiple things related to language. I'm asking which one you're talking about, you fucking autist.
no
you gotta tell the reason if you're gonna call me a retard.

>user doesn't understand dimensions and determinism
wew lad

OP I am embarrassed for you.

The feeling of first contact was superb

Electrifying mysterious and scary

Good film

>nuanced concepts

Did you know that before the U.S. occupation and reconstruction effort in Japan, there was no linguistic differentiation between blue and green, and as such, the colors were not perceived as distinctly different?

In other words, sometimes we can't even see things we don't have the words to describe.

Sleep tight.

I'm not saying it's completely bullshit. I'm saying that it doesn't make sense right now, and it doesn't make sense to make a movie out of something that doesn't make sense. can YOU see the fucking difference?

That is literally the point of sci-fi. You can't possibly be this retarded.

Do you have autism

No, for sci-fi, it needs to make at least some sense. But it does not make any sense whatsoever.

Yeah, you can totally deduct from that it's possible that you can see through time. Fucking autist.

Man. that shot when they reveal the airship with the clouds going over the mountains and that ominous music was pure fucking kino.

Time and location are concepts that disappear in a quantum reality. Our brains are simply hard-wired to perceive their reality and a nice, safe linear unfolding of events to save us from having to comprehend being everywhere at once.

>they didn't have distinct terms for green and blue
>therefore they couldn't tell the difference between green and blue
Most people refer to both mauve and lavender as "violet". That doesn't mean they can't tell that they're different shades of violet. Fucking retard.

And yet to this day, there are still green and blue traffic lights in Japan, because to them, it's a hazy distinction and one serves just as well as the other.

Which does absolutely nothing to counter my point. It's like pointing out that traffic lights in America have different shades of red and they all signify the same thing, therefore Americans can't tell apart different shades of red.

Think about it this way you bumbling retard. Before a certain point in human evolution we didn't even know time existed as we lived purely in the present.
Eventually we learned to abstract ourselves(one of the byproducts is language) hence developing self consciousness and literally discovered time. Yeah the film is obviously science fiction but the concept isn't just out of nowhere stupid like you think. Time not being linear isn't a concept it's what time actually is you fucking dumb piece of shit.

The concept of time follows from the human ability to reason logically which relies on understanding causality, or the idea that the action comes before the consequence. How you get from that to the moronic concept of being able to perceive distortions in time (which is impossible by definition, since they affect the processes that govern the operations of your brain) is beyond me. I just have to conclude you're a literal retard.

Yeah, because there's a vast array of shades being used, right?

Guys, is Enemy as good as Sicario/Prisoners/Arrival?

>You can be talking about multiple things related to language. I'm asking which one you're talking about, you fucking autist.

The specific language hypothesis they focus on in the movie. If you were paying attention you'd know.

> It's an "user tries to hate on Arrival and gets completely BTFO" thread

It doesn't need to make sense. It's just entertainment from Hollywood and not a science documentary Not everyone out there is a scientists. Majority of people have no clue how space-time works.

this is fine for things like edge of tomorrow, where everything so well executed that I just didn't care about plotholes, the ride was too good. this movie on the other hand had a serious tone, so I had to take its science at least somewhat seriously, and it just falls apart

Just saw this. I read the story a couple years ago and loved it, so I've been looking forward to this.
I thought it was executed really well as an adaptation, and I'm glad a movie this smart can get made in 2016.
That being said I didn't absolutely love it, I guess I partly just wished we'd learn a little more about the aliens but they leave you with a lot of questions.
Still it was well filmed and acted, and about as good an adaptation of a story/book as I've ever seen. I'd definitely recommend it if you're not a restarted autist like OP.
7/10

No, it's more like saying that stop lights in America are sometimes red and sometimes purple because we can't tell the difference. Or do you think that blue is just a shade of green?

Some are distinctly more orange than others, yet they're all just "red" and they all signify the same thing in the context of traffic control. Since you can't seem to comprehend what I'm getting at, I'll can give you a more extreme example: my grandparents still refer to eggplants as "blues" because they grew up in rural Russia, where they didn't have a separate name for purple, and the color of eggplants was considered blue. Go try to tell them they can't tell apart the color off an eggplant from the color of the ocean. The root of your idiotic misunderstanding is that you conflate a difference in how people perceive something (as a distinct concept or merely variation on something more general) with being able to perceive something at all or being completely oblivious to it.

If you want logic and sense I'm afraid you consume wrong entertainment. Sci fi is not there to teach you but to make you feel less bored by watching cool magical machines and hot chicks.

They think of blue and green as shades of the same color. See

Op here. This is pretty much how I feel about it.

it's called being a braindead pleb

No, I understand that THEY think that. Re-read my post.

Easily the worst movie of the year. I can't believe you Redditors actually like this shit

I did read your post. This part:
>because we can't tell the difference
Is what I take issue with. If you don't understand why, re-read my post () until you do.
[pic related] is one of many Japanese painting from the 16th century demonstrating that they do perceive green and blue as different.

>It's called SCIENCE FICTION, so it's supposed to be at least somewhat believable, that's the whole fucking point isn't it?

No two people can possibly agree on where to draw the line of "somewhat" believable. Arrival doesn't require more suspension of disbelief than the average movie in the sci-fi genre, in fact I'd say it requires less.

Can you name a sci-fi movie that I can't hold my hand out and say "that's bullshit"? Maybe, but how many?

Forgot pic.

Actually, the ability to perceive color variations is quite heavily tied into linguistics.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_color_naming_debate

It may seem trivial to you, but as the guy who is so quick to label others as idiots, I imagine a great number of interesting topics strike you as trivial, you being way up there in your ivory tower and all.

Some user told us of another example where a village uses a language that has no words for relative directions, only absolute directions. So they must know the directions of north, south, east, west at all times.

Of course they don't have some super direction detecting powers like they are a human compass or some shit, they simply keep track which direction is which.

This japanese blue/green argument is total non sense. Both parties understand that they named blue and green the same name, yet they can still perceive the difference between the two. When the west introduced them as separate entities in our culture, it didn't improve their color perception. So it's not analogous to being able to perceive 4 dimensions because you learned an alien language. In other words movies are fucking real. WOW

Not an argument. Empirical difference demonstrates that you are wrong: many Japanese paintings from long before the US occupation use many different shades of both blue and green, often in the same painting, often coloring vegetation green and water blue, just as you'd expect from people who can tell apart the color of green things from the color of blue things.

aren't fucking real*

>we have to ask them questions before china teaches them retard mahjong language

empirical evidence*

if time being linear is just a human perception does it mean that matter is in multiple different states at all times?

It means things don't occupy space in the way we imagine they do.

>muh plot

kys

I was just sick of them cutting to that fucking kid. That kid is like half the fucking movie. Also when did the soliders agree to a suicide pact? They plant the bombs and we hear gunshots but its barely mentioned after.

t. someone who read a few popsci articles

If you had to communicate with the aliens what language would you have choose?

English syntaxis is great but it had too many phonetic sounds. Maybe Spanish is a better first language if we keep it simplified

language change perspective of reality

It doesn't change the way the laws of physics apply to your brain or the capacity of your sense.

A contact and translation like shown in Arrival would be impossible, because there was no basis for them to translate their language

>Actually, the ability to perceive color variations is quite heavily tied into linguistics.

No, the ability of a person to tell you what color something is, not perception itself, is heavily tied to linguistics.

I only know a handful of artsy fartsy color names, like lavender, crimson, vermilion, sage, khaki, burgundy, etc. You might ask me to compare to two different colors that vary slightly in hue and shade, but they are both in the range of bluish purple, and maybe I would call them both indigo. But if you asked me if they were exactly the same, I could tell you fuck no. Any human with healthy eyes can do the same.

And to demonstrate why language effects the ability to tell you what color something is, just google indigo. You'll see many variations of blue and purple. It doesn't mean that the culture responsible for these google results can't tell the different between a color that's more blue and a color that's more purple.

I agree, but it was implied the aliens already knew our language.

We'd present them with a word, they'd respond with a symbol.

It was more "them teaching us" than "us teaching them"

>2 DEEP 4 U

esperanto

There was a few brief shots of the soldiers listening to some militant Alex Jones and looking angry.

>there was no basis for them to translate their language

Yes there was. They performed actions and wrote them down and then the aliens also wrote them down. For example, they established who Ian was and how we wrote his name, then they wrote "Ian walks" and had Ian walk across the room and then the aliens wrote that down for them as well. Rinse and repeat for several hours a day for 29 days, presumably using different arrays of objects and actions, then they eventually could piece together how the language worked.

There's so much idiot ball in this movie.

All the aliens have done is float in scenic areas that would make good desktop wallpapers, and the soldiers decide to fucking bomb them because fictional alex jones.

Also the chinese interpreted that the aliens wanted man kind to fight themselves until a single victor remained. Why did they go under radio silence? How does radio silence prevent this? How does cutting off communication with the rest of the human protect the human race from itself? Instead everyone just sweats wondering what the fuck the other countries are doing.

Does the film go over the idea presented in the short were thinking in different languages, even sign language, can affect your perception and shit? iirc that is how it implies she can see the future by thinking in their language, haven't seen the film yet but wondering

You're right that they already knew our language because they had future memories of being taught it during their arrival. But even if they didn't know our language, exchanging written symbols while showing objects and actions would still work on both sides.

Can someone answer this faggot so I know too.

This movie would have made way more sense if they used a 3d printer to make objects for the aliens.

Yeah how do figure that 3 lines bent upwards and a little dot underneath means "use" in octopi alien language?


The whole talking with them thing implies that they are basically human if they understand concepts like "get" "use" "name" etc

>Also the chinese interpreted that the aliens wanted man kind to fight themselves until a single victor remained. Why did they go under radio silence? How does radio silence prevent this? How does cutting off communication with the rest of the human protect the human race from itself? Instead everyone just sweats wondering what the fuck the other countries are doing.

The Chinese were looking after themselves. They cut radio silence because they could not trust other countries. If the aliens did want to start WW3, you have to assume some countries would take the initiative.

They planned the bomb after watching the breitbart stream

how did she not remember calling sheng? that's a pretty big thing to forget happening.

There's no reason they couldn't have brought in groups of objects each day. It was pretty much fucking implied that they did just that. If you didn't pick up on how the translation worked from the time lapse with Hawkeye literally explaining how it worked that's not the movie's fault.

Nonlinear time =/= Linear time except she knows the future too

Cause and effect doesn't work in any classical sense. She didn't learn Shang's wife's dying words from the future to integrate it into the past. She learned it as she learned it. She's experiencing both the future, present, and past at the same time. She's perceiving time both forwards and backwards.

>They cut radio silence because they could not trust other countries. If the aliens did want to start WW3, you have to assume some countries would take the initiative.

If you don't trust other countries, then don't share information with them. You can still leave a line open to listen. We still talked to russia during the cold war, we just didn't share secrets and we didn't take them at their word.

>Yeah how do figure that 3 lines bent upwards and a little dot underneath means "use" in octopi alien language?

Because they spend several hours per day for an entire fucking month with an entire base full of people working on it along with computer programs analyzing patterns to help with the translation.

Oh I know, it's a non essential gap the audience can fill in themselves. But I think the movie would have been more interesting if they went into detail. Instead they whiteboard their names, and time lapses with editing, and suddenly the aliens have a huge vocabulary.

>She didn't learn Shang's wife's dying words from the future
>She's experiencing both the future

user

It could have been neat to see the actual translation process, but it would have required some kind of miniseries rather than just a single 2-hour movie, and unfortunately too many people would find it boring so no one would ever make that.

but there's one timeline right? so she remembers what has happened to her after the events. She can experience all at the same time but does she forget her actions?

or she has the memory of her whole life and it's hard to recall what happened when.

those FUCKING LOUD alien droning sounds
almost distorted the speakers

just watched the trailer, actually looks interesting

watch the camrip or wait for a proper rip?

>to integrate it into the past
That would be like cutting out "I didn't grab the ball to score a point, I grabbed it to block a point"

and then you going

>I didn't grab the ball
>I grabbed it
>user...

Not as good, but it's really disturbing, like incendies. Worth a watch.

if I really had to compare it to something, then yes the closest possible explanation that our understanding of linear time would be that since being born she has had knowledge/memory of her entire life. It's just that because she literally just learned the language which started affecting her perception of time, she had a hard time actually recalling those "memories" cause well... it's an alien language and she has only been speaking and understanding it for a month

Sounded like whales to me

>aliens gets to earth
>they somehow teach you their language because they are going to need you help in 3000 years
>somehow learning the language makes you a fortune teller
>now we leave
>cancer baby

????

so everyone who learned the language after she starting teaching it was able to see the future as well?

It's hard being dumb, huh?

I understood that everyone knows their entire life, but until they learn heptapod their brains are wired so they can only experience it linearly

General Chang sure seemed to see time in the same way since he went out of his way to have that awkward conversation at the party. I guess in the future, everybody can.

If you look at it from a Lovecraftian prespective it's not so bad

youtube.com/watch?v=pFrMLRQIT_k

Vocabulary is too limited to express these concepts without recycling those words, because nonlinear time is an impossible concept to us linear beings.

What he's saying is the "future Louise" that we see isn't a Louise that's experienced everything in her own life already and could have memories of calling Sheng, she's a Louise who hadn't even called Sheng yet because she was experiencing it in the exact order we saw it.

Sheng's perspective (linear time):
>Hostilities to the aliens escalates
>Louise calls him
>She tells him his wife's dying words
>She explains what he needs to do and why
>He meets her after everything is over and gives her his phone number and wife's dying words

Louise's perspective (nonlinear time):
>Hostilities to the aliens escalates
>She meets Sheng after everything is over and he gives her his phone number and tells her his wife's dying words
>She calls him
>She tells him his wife's dying words and explains what he needs to do and why

Causality is fucked when you can perceive/experience time in a nonlinear fashion. It works nothing like we know it to work in our linear experience.

i think everybody can understand what louise can do. but not everybody can do it. because shang says something like "I don't understand how your brain works"

The study took a group of people who don't differentiate red and orange linguistically, then showed them a series of various shades of red and orange, many displaying the same shade in multiple locations, and asked them to circle all the boxes that contained the same shade as an example they provided.

They couldn't do it.

Does that clear it up?

Oh I read that too fast, sorry user