Are there any plotholes, mistakes in the story of Bestwolrd, that don't add up?

Are there any plotholes, mistakes in the story of Bestwolrd, that don't add up?

Theres gotta be some.

also ww memes

the key to the maze is literally:
>just be yourself

B R A V O
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A
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IS season 2 going to be Samurai ?

The story itself was solid, just a bit stupid.

All the office wonks being evil schemers, the working class dudes being punching bags for fucking everybody including the inanimate objects they clean. The OMG IT'S JUST LIKE THE RED WEDDING ending. I don't hate it, it had better directing and acting than GoT, but too many dumb things took me out of the story to really care about it.

It would take less time to catalogue the things that actually made sense on the show, plot-wise and from a storytelling perspective.

too drawn out, literally everything happening in 2-3 episodes

Not really

There are reasons people will not like it, but that isn't a plot hole.

Why do the technicians help Maeve?

>head of IT is the creator of west world
>no one knew

Pretty retarded

unrealistic that there they could see through the hosts and still their security doesnt notice all the shady shit going down

It was all sabotaged by Ford with Arnold's access.

My only complaints are , some things are way too drawn out while others suffer from exactly the opposite like William or Weaboo falling in love in 3 seconds.

Also the pleb tier dialogue.

Its a gaping plothole. How is it possible no one remembers what Arnold looks like?

>35 years
>before opening the fucking park
>when Bernard was created Ford was clearly older
>most of the staff is young
Most people don't even know Arnold exists.

I don't think it's been explained but I thought Ford and Arnold were never big names, with Ford only achieving his renown later. The company struggled until William bought it, whereupon Ford shot to fame. Earlier on its noted that a lot of people didn't know of Arnold at all, and this carries some parallels with people like Steve Jobs, who is famous and revered, and Steve Wozniak, who is relatively unknown to popular culture despite his arguably even greater contributions to technology and Apple.

There's plenty of similar real world comparisons if you end up looking into companies, quite frequently there's the big famous name, and another name or two behind the scenes that did a huge amount of work but never received the acclaim.

Of course, if anyone is going to know someone like Steve Wozniak or Arnold, it would be the people who work for the company that they built, so maybe my idea isn't rock solid, but whatever

Wouldn't they have needed billions of dollars for owning the land, developing the park, developing the hosts.

park was opened after he'd already died
throughout the show everyone asks literally who arnold is

But its a stupidly huge risk for Ford if anyone were to look into archival footage and photos of the park. It makes no sense to have robo-Arnold look like the original Arnold.

Why the fuck did Ford command Bernard to kill himself? It doesn't make any sense and does nothing for the plot. He knew that he would just be found and revived in time for his new narrative.

Didn't he say all traces of him were deleted.

HEY ARNOLD

Because this show is LOST tier and every corner they write themselves into they just say is part of Ford's master plan.

>Felix and the other guy helping Maeve for no fucking reason.
That looks like a friggin' huge plothole to me.

The show literally implies that Arnold was just some random guy no one knew about, when in reality he probably was some world reknown scientist/programmer and Westworld was some massively revolutionary thing that the whole world would've known about.

Unless the internet doesn't exist in the westworld universe this plot line is completely retarded.

The white guy simply doesn't want to get fired for fucking hosts on the sly. The asian, I have no idea. Guess he wants to become uber programmer and just follows along out of fascination/stupidity.

A lot of religious parallels involved, from Garden of Eden to the Tree of Knowledge and Lucifer screwing around with God's creations and their free will.

>be multi billion dollar company with technology that could be worth trillions
>Have armed trained security force to protect your trillion dollar technology
>Host's go awire in company building, killing employees with no remorse
>Armed guards don't shoot on sight at any point they see them

this was unbelievably stupid. At one point literally 3 guards come face to face with the scar guy and they take turns getting shot/killed without even firing once.

And apparently there was a scene after the credits where the girl, who was now unarmed and lost an actual arm, manages to kill the guards that were going after them.

So god damn stupid, The entire Maeve plot was just retarded

Stopped watching about two episodes ago. Is it fair to say that every bad feeling people had when realizing JJ Abrams and discount Nolan were involved was justified?

the girl i mentioned was the snake tattoo girl who got her arm stuck in the security door

It wasn't really just out of stupidity, sure you could say he was naive but in a sense there was a good heart to his decisions. He wanted to get a bird to fly, so allowing maive to accomplish her goals and realise his own futility wasn't really stupid but more humble than anything.

Hence the whole "you make a terrible human being" line.

That was obvious from episode 1 you dumb fuck.

>A huge amount of coworkers gets killed because, apparently, I'm "fascinated" with some robot
>I'm facing not only the loss of my job but also imprisonment
>"I want this bird to fly LMAO"
No fucking sense.

Taking into account that the park was a novelty in a world where they have laser pointers which repair tissue damage. The probably isn't seen as a huge deal.

The QA armed guards looked like they had a protocol which was yell "CEASE FUNCTIONS" as many times as possible. A few of them got shots off but realistically the hosts would be much better shots, it's like playing chess against a computer but in this case it's cs:go in real life.

>He wanted to get a bird to fly
No, he wanted to get a robot to fly out of a desire to get a better job. It was a selfish motive. He's also stupid for knowingly allowing himself to be duped by a robot that can legitimately kill him. No matter how many safety protocols are in place, anyone with a brain wouldn't be comfortable around those things, unless he was utterly unaware they could be programmed for super-human strength and intelligence.

william's wife kills herself because of the man he was, but william was convinced that he was a good person - despite previously murdering his brother in law in cold blood

They never resolved the obvious Shrinkray utilization in creating the park.

Plenty of people make sacrifices to get change in this world. Martyrdom is a thing and all, look at suicide bombers, high school shooters, people who go to war, countless sacrifices made throughout history.

The average person probably wouldn't do what he did but the point is there are is always a few people that make decisions that deviate from the norm. In fact that is a primary part of our society, hence the whole "thinking outside the box" ideology we venerate so much.

Love the show but:
>If the entire Maeve plotline is masterminded by Ford, what would happen if the labcats did turn her in? She gets decommissioned? Or people find out Ford was ploting his plan.
> Why would Ford have himself killed other than that his actor is too expensive to commit to
> Have lockdown in the compound, but not have sleeping gas/emp/something similar to disable all hosts

Also: Sizemore wasn't fired/suspended for drunk pissing on the control room

Plot holes not much but some push over things that annoys me:

- Why Dumb and dumber helped Maeve until the end? were they being following Ford's order?

-How can the Delos soldiers be so incompetent?

They were both hosts. If they weren't, they would have been able to see Maeve's true narrative while they were working on her.

No one can convince me otherwise because if that is not correct, the entire show is fucking retarded and makes no sense.

>fat and lazy guests have no problem shooting fake robot people
>security guards called in to shoot the malfunctioning robots literally don't shoot at them
>generic brand Matt Damon doesn't shoot the hosts that he doesn't trust because the plot needs him to go away now because Nolan is a hack

One of the worst parts of WW.

The dumb techs get to rebuild Maeve without anyone knowing or - if they know - while allowing them to remove the explosive in her spine

Maeves story is so out of place bad.

The photo of William's fiance falls in the buried city and magically makes a 30 year trip exactly to the Abernathy ranch

It's possible that they weren't sure if they were hosts or not.

Dolores picked it up on one of her many trips to the 1st city.

>fully autonomous workers who at essentially 90% human and can be programmed and reprogramed to do whatever you want and think whatever you want them to think

the park was literally only a novelty because Ford didn't allow anyone else to use his tech or coding. There have been numerous attempts to smuggle it out/steal it over the years.

>The hosts would be much better shots
Except for the fact the hosts can only use what they've been programmed to use. They mention that they don't allow the code for hosts to wield specific weapons if they don't need to, ex) when the one host goes awire in the mountains, they mention the other memebers of his camp were stuck in an endless loop because no one else could wield the axe to chop wood

>inb4 you claim Maeve reprogrammed them
Maeve wasn't even capable of seeing her own programming, which is why she was suprised when Bernard told her someone had given her the ability to do everything she did, even planned it out step by step. Which is ANOTHER PLOT HOLE because if maeve wasn't capable of seeing someone gave her the ability to awaken from sleep mode she wouldn't have been able to give it to the other hosts.

Maive had that paper that said which park 1. Could be SW.

I missed that, do you know what episode that happened?

The entire Maeve plotline was just retarded.

Except he doesn't kill his brother in law?? he sends him off on a horse when they reached the edge of the park

I'm pretty sure that never happened.

yes, a little black girl fits right into a world of 17th century Japanese feudal swordsmen

PARK 1 IS WW YOU NONCE

the last episode when MiB tells Dolores that she must have followed that path dozens of times.

Shrink ray. We don't really know the situation of the outside world, it might be the case that many people are immensely rich, or that being a recluse is common place, or that Ford had the money and Arnold was the code monkey and so nobody paid him much mind

After his suicide they removed a lot of mentions of him; he had no legacy so it stands to good reason that he's got no family that'll ever see him as well.

>they would have been able to see Maeve's true narrative while they were working on her
Would they? They're relatively low level techs and wouldn't necessarily need access to narratives. Yes, they saw that code was modified and even the code name of the person who did it, but that might mean nothing to repair people.

>axe chopping

No they have a clear ability to be adaptive especially because they're conversing with humans so often. The issue with the axe was that they did not have the PERMISSIONS to use it. We see the same thing with Dolores at one stage.

>Maeve

Actually all this is wrong, look at the entire character of Bernard. The hosts can have parameters which disallow them from doing certain things. See Bernard with the door, see literally every reference to the outside world. It Bernard can be a character then Maeve can also program while not being able to understand her code properly.

>They're relatively low level techs
and yet they're able to mess with her skills, lock up entire sections of the place and etc
yeah right

Hosts can't see things that would hurt them like Bernard with the door, so they wouldn't be able to see the true narrative.

Lot of convoluted mess to basically just arrive at 'lol robutt uprising'
Basically the most predictable, boring, generic 'twist'

Why is Westworld, which is full of guns, built with glass that is so weak that people can be easily thrown through them but SamuraiWorld made of bullet proof glass? And only in plot sensative areas? Budget cuts?

Just like how a seemingly educated free black woman with a British accents fits in the fucking wild west

I mean Park 1 is obviously WW but not for that reason

They aren't truly adaptive though, this is explained when maeve learns she's a host and doesn't have free will. They are capable of improvisation, which is why she's able to communicate about whatever with Felix, but on the tablet you can see every word she's about to use before she says it. they clearly come from a word bank of preprogrammed phrases.

Deloris also shows this when conversing with teddy about leaving earlier on. He keeps saying "we'll leave someday soon" which she calls him out for being an ambiguous phrase teddy uses that has no definitive meaning.

>Deloris at one stage
yeah except for the fact it's later revealed she was programmed to murder all the hosts in the park. When teddy tried teaching her to shoot, she isn't capable of it because she didn't have the programming to do so at that time. BUT she did at one point, meaning the coding was in her. Examples of this being: they have memories which alot of them are capable of calling upon (The outlaw shooting up everyone who had previously wronged him in previous iterations in the saloon; And deloris' father going cult leader after seeing the photo causing him to reprocess his coding) Without the previous coding, none of them would've acted that way.
Honestly, a huge portion of the show revolves around the fact they remember shit they were programmed to do.

Deloris also shows this when conversing with teddy about leaving earlier on. He keeps saying "we'll leave someday soon" which she calls him out for being an ambiguous phrase teddy uses that has no definitive meaning.

>Actually this is wrong
actually it isn't because she was completely capable of seeing it when bernard showed her, she gets angry and smashes the tablet because of it. Meaning she was capable of actually seeing it, but she wasn't capable of accessing that level of coding.

When the hosts are programmed not to see specific things, they always reply with "it doesn't look like anything to me" or being completely oblivious to certain things (like the door in fords cottage, or when the guests talk about the outside world around the hosts)

Bernard doesn't actually do anything important after he's revived, just watches

it's all part of the narrative

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I guess it was kind of brilliant to spend whole season to make audience believe the host have become self aware, put us follow their doings, and then reveal it was just one crazy senile old man after all, and everything we just saw was kind of pointless entertainment.

Look they are guns there isn't much difference in the use of their western weapons and a P90 especially the way they were using them. The hosts would require some form of adaptability to be able to get dragged across the park and rework narratives. Couple this with the changes Maeve made it isn't really a stretch to suggest they couldn't use the weapons. Maeve could also talk about programming and shit but wasn't adaptable.

They don't have TRUE free will but there is some wiggle room in there and that just gets bigger and bigger. The hosts have a consciousness but have parameters which limit their abilities thereby removing complete free will but they have to have the ability to adapt due to being a conscious organism. Insects are adaptable and don't have consciousness, so a host can adapt within it's limitations.

Honestly, if this was his perspective the show should've spent some time on it. All the show did to explain it was having Maeve say that the asian dude has a lot of "compassion."

If a character has such strange, complex motivations, time must be spent explaining the motivations. If you just hand-wave through them like the show did, then everyone assumes that the character has no complex motivation and exists solely for plot convenience. If this show had actually spent time on his motivations, we could defend him, but they didn't spend enough time to convince me that your interpretation is true without a LOT of reaching.

What did the Ghost Nation do with Stubbs?

...But delores did become self-aware. Did you miss the whole point?

They don't always reply with "it doesn't look like anything to me" they use a string of words to dismiss it. Bernard also entered that doorway. So it shouldn't be a stretch for a host to be able to understand when explicitly required to understand it.

So Maeve could have been just as easily programmed not to access her storyline or even not want to look at her storyline because she was adamant on her own free will regarding that. In the end we also find out she overwrites her storyline.

>They're relatively low level techs and wouldn't necessarily need access to narratives
But then Maeve shut down security of the whole complex with that same pad.
Maeve story is the worst garbage I've seen in years.

It probably wasn't but the compassion was the initial motivator and then it is ambiguous from that point. Sure they could have had a scene with him at the holodeck or whatever fucking Maeve and then being completely dissatisfied. The further build upon an idea that he was disenfranchised with the company and how fucked up the whole idea of keeping sentient robots to rape and fuck was.

But I can understand them not because he was a supporting character. Just like the chick who found the antenna. In a show this big I can understand them glazing over supporting character motivations.

Getting so worked up over this stuff is genuinely shrink ray tier because explaining every supporting character would require an episode in itself. We would need three seasons to get to the point we got in the last ten eps.

Dolores was self aware when she killed Ford. Ford gave the choice to kill him to her and she did it of her own free will.

>isn't much different between western weapons and a p90
lmao except for the fact that the scar faced guy is literally shown reloading a fucking gun 200 years into the future, with a magazine, back when nothing had magazines or even saftey's. Were talking about revolvers and bolt/crank action rifles capable of holding about 10 bullets, to automatic sub-machine guns.

Now this made some sense when they started shooting, shooting is simple enough, and they get excited about how the guns work compared to what they used. But they shouldn't have known how to reload the gun.

>It's not a stretch to suggest maeve made a couple of changes
It's actually really funny you mentioned that, because i just now remembered that Maeve explicitly states she didn't alter the scar faced guy at all because she wanted to work with him naturally like they did before.
Unless i'm forgetting a scene inwhich Maeve tampers with the code of the scar faced and tattooed faced girl. But still they wouldnt be capable of using the guns as proficiently as they could.

>adaptability to rework narratives
except it's mentioned 200 times that ford's new narrative throw's a bunch of other narratives into disarray and it was really problematic. Because the hosts don't have that level of adaptability. Again, they are capable of IMPROV, not genuine adaptability/learning.

Maeve had her own permissions in the end remember, she got given admin rights. We also Ford was in on the entire thing so it isn't a stretch for two retarded techs to not even realise that they didn't have permissions to give admins and it was an internal thing. Then you also have the "Bernard" changes which were apparently Ford.

Final episode was pure torture
90 minutes of
>Ford saying some dumb shit about art, soul blablabla
>smug dipshits led by nigress and asian cuck effortlessly gunning down 1000000 people
>Dolores making the same dumb face she was making for 9 episodes prior
>what the hell was even the point of Charlotte's time padding
The only good part was MiB, like usual

>implying ford is dead
>implying dolores didn't kill host ford, that was being created in the old lab

LUl what a cuckshitshowfest this turned into

Because he needed Bernard out of the way if his plan was going to go smoothly, since Bernard was planning on opposing him.

He wasn't capable of seeing the door, that by no means includes the doorway. Merely preventing him from seeing the door prevented him from interacting with it, with theresa being able to open it she bypassed that prevention.


>in the end she overwrites her storyline
yes literally at the end she was capable of making her first genuine choice. ONLY then, everything else she had done up to that point was pre planned.

She was supposed to leave westworld, you can see it in the scene inwhich bernard shows her her programming. You can literally see the words saying she was supposed to reach mainland.

>reload
No he doesn't he smacks a mag. There is no explicit reloading scene.

>didn't change scarface
Well she did but she didn't change his personality, that was the implication. If he was still park factory set he wouldn't even be able to kill people. There is a scene where she is maxing sliders and shit.

>adaptability
You are arguing semantics are this stage because you are looking for things to be wrong. Why haven't they addressed the shrink rays either? They also explain that while the other narratives were throw into disarray they were using fallback mechanisms in the robots.

The act of improvising is essentially adapting with what you have. If given a different tool they improvise also known as adapting. They don't need to be sat down on a 3 week seminar about P90s or even have the data because it was literally pull the trigger and shoot.

Then you have Bernard. He was CREATING code and was surpassing Ford, which he specifically said. If this isn't an example of adapting and learning then it has no meaning.

>first episode
>think they are going to go the smart route
>nope
>turns out they were going full retard the entire time
>figure 10 episodes is a lot of time to kill they'll eventually get smart, it's about conciousness after all!
>nope it's just a dumb dude bro show like got

no hype for season 2

Hard to believe it wasnt coded, it was one last attempt to convince audience that the hosts are making real choices. Ford had everything set up just as he wanted, to have revenge on people about to fire him and go same way Arnold did. He was too much of a control freak to let change have any part in his plan, and had shown over and over again how he controls everyone and everything in the park to the smallest detail.

Felix would have been busted for stealing IP with the bird stuff.
Sylvester would have been an accomplice.
They wouldn't be ale to destroy Maeve without an investigation, which would bring the IP shit to light.

Yeah and she never did. Her story line was to escape then assimilate then we never found out Bernard just looked shocked. It could have been "create a robot army and destroy the world" or anything.

The point of the scene was to show that the reveries/memories are a primary and overwriting function of the hosts thereby giving them that free will. She was following her storyline until her reveries kicked in and gave her more choice just as Arnold was explaining with Dolores.

>season 2 is an emerging war between humans and androids
>essentially Terminator with relateable machines
The only thing that could make me watch S2.

Supporting characters are supposed to have simple motivations. If the motivations are simple, you don't have to spend any time on them, and the character can just fit into his slot of the story. Elise was this kind of supporting character. She never did anything complex or outside of normalcy.

The asian tech was really complicated, and they spent hardly any time on him. It's sort of a basic tenant of storytelling that you spend time on complex things in order to explain them, and you don't spend time on simple things. It's a plot hole or just bad writing to have a character with complex goals and motivations and to only give him the screentime of a supporting character. I guess, maybe it isn't a plot hole per se, because it doesn't contradict itself, but it definitely is poor writing.

It's not if you look at her actions as simply an extension of what Ford is capable of. Just think of every single thing she's done as Ford doing it by programming her.

>Ford saying some dumb shit about art, soul blablabla
I agree with all of your points but this. The parts with ford talking about art and the soul are pretty much the whole point of the story. If you think that was boring then it's definitely not the show for you

You could argue the entire show was complex. He was a supporting character with some depth, they don't need to explain his every action because of the supporting aspect.

I'm not arguing that the whole show is complex. I'm saying that he was a main character with the screentime of a supporting character.

If you were going to tell the story of how an AI was let out of its containment, you would focus on the guy who let it happen. You would wonder, "What was that guy thinking? Why did he overlook the existential danger of such a thing? What about a person would cause them to make such a dangerous choice?"

In fact, there are other stories about AI which DO focus on the character who lets them out. Neuromancer comes to mind. Ex Machina. These are stories that recognize that the complex choice of letting an AI out deserves the focus of the story. And, by all rights, Ford does get the story attention he needs in order to explain why he programs Maeve the way he does. But the other character who is central to Maeve getting out, the asian tech, gets no attention whatsoever and just seems like a dumb pawn or a crazy person.

>women are stronk the tv show xD

what a terrible series

how insecure are you?

This isn't GoT General, friend.

>not liking terrible writing and storyline means I'm insecure.

okay

He's right though, the amount of cucking in the last episode went overboard
>Dolores smacks MiB around
>Charlotte bosses the story cuck around
>Maeve and Snakegirl bully fucking white males
>Dolores ends Ford's patriarchy

man baby no like tv show wah waaah

Also he was the first death in Westworld, even if no one knew him as a scientist surely he would make the headlines as that.
Or at least the investors.

>Strong female characters are AWESUM, get over it!