>In her solo career, past the juvenile Bjork (Falkinn, 1977), the Sugarcubes' singer Bjork Gudmundsdottir adopted the worst vice of their monotonous records, the propensity for trivial dance-pop, but took it to new heights. There is no question that she boasted uncommon vocal skills, although there is also no question that she is lacking in compositional skills, a fact that constantly forced her to team up with famous producers.
>Just like the Beatles before her, Bjork has made trivial pop music enhanced with studio wizardry. It's the studio wizardry, not the music, that people buy. And the tv-friendly image, of course. Anybody who thinks Bjork is a genius should try to listen at least to Solex. Let your ears, not publicity, judge.
>Just do not exaggerate her merits. During the 1990s, countless black soul stars have made albums that relied entirely on electronic production instead of traditional instruments. In a veiled case of "blackxploitation", Bjork has adopted that idea and bent it to the intellectual aesthetic ideals of the European culture. Like all pop stars, she pretends to straddle the line between experimentation and commercial sell-out, when in fact she is simply advertising her "product" over and over again, the ultimate commercial trick. Just like Madonna at her (commercial) best. It is an insult to all the experimental musicians in the world to claim that there is even a bit of experimentation in this album.
>She just is fundamentally a cold calculating mind that has trouble expressing an emotion but is very skilled at wrapping that emotion with all sorts of theories and practices. Last but not least, her voice is still an acquired taste (never acquired by me).
One person's career doesn't have to everything to everyone.
Matthew Jackson
I don't like Björk but also I don't care about Scaruffi so this is a bad thread and I don't know why I'm writing on it.
Chase Hughes
>She just is fundamentally a cold calculating mind that has trouble expressing an emotion but is very skilled at wrapping that emotion with all sorts of theories and practices. Last but not least, her voice is still an acquired taste (never acquired by me).
Sebastian Nguyen
How do her parents look like?
Adam Wood
Post [Elektra, 1995]
This well-regarded little item rekindles my primeval suspicion of Europeans who presume to "improve" on rock and roll (or for that matter Betty Hutton, originator of the best song here). I don't miss the Sugarcubes' guitars per se so much as their commitment to the groove, which--sporadic though it would remain, Iceland not being one of your blues hotbeds--might shore up the limited but real intrinsic interest of her eccentric instrumentation, electronic timbres, etc. Then there's her, how shall I say it, self-involved vocal devices. Which brings us to, right, her lyrics, which might hit home harder if she'd grown up speaking the English she'll die singing, but probably wouldn't. Anybody out there remember Dagmar Krause? German, Henry Cow, into artsong and proud of it? Well, take my word for it. She was no great shakes either. But at least she had politics. C+
Jordan Carter
Hmmmm...
Logan Allen
kek. There's probably something wrong with her, but fuck it there's also something wrong with me so I like her
Parker Richardson
im sure this'll turn into a bjork posting thread eventually. why don't you guys start now
Matthew Watson
that's a bit too obvious. honestly if you see her parents they're pretty scrubby hippies, with a bit of inbreeding going on on that island I can see why she'd have some fucked genes
Liam Brown
I listened to Post but I didn't like it very much and it's also severely dated.
Eli Ward
...
Henry Baker
I'm not sure what his problem is. He keeps comparing her against a non-existent standard, its pretty childish and poor reviewing (review the thing in front of you, not something you are imagining). When did Bjork ever claim to be an 'experimental artist' so he can say she isn't? Also treating Bjork as if she isn't the originator of her own work reeks of sexism. Nellee Hooper never thought she needed his help. She'd released more records than most people ever do before Debut came out.
Jeremiah Williams
Did someone mention Taylor Swift?
Colton Barnes
I don't think it is sexism... he rails against David Bowie for the same thing even more harshly. He undervalues the musical contributions of some people but to be fair sometimes people on this board and her PR machine really run with the 'she is the only experimental artist' thing when a tremendous part of her discography is pop music
Asher Baker
scaruffi's known for bashing well selling acts. He often leans a bit too much to the "not many people listen to it so it's good" side
Jason Martinez
She's fallen into the trap of someone like Prince where its not art-music exactly, its more that everything she does is a response to her own discography rather than the outside world. I always felt like Prince could probably dance to his own later records but he was forgetting hardly anyone else has his sense of time or a way into it.
I wish she'd do pop music again really, I also think it would be a bigger statement than anything she's done in years. Pop music is going through a bit of a tired, very bland period at the moment, it would be a funny thing if a 50 year old woman provided a kick up the arse. I wonder if she has the guts to try.
James Edwards
All artists do this when they get past a certain age, they fall into making self-indulgent malarkey that no one but themselves can possibly appreciate.
Benjamin Young
>I wish she'd do pop music again really, I also think it would be a bigger statement than anything she's done in years. Pop music is going through a bit of a tired, very bland period at the moment, it would be a funny thing if a 50 year old woman provided a kick up the arse It's happened before.
Logan Murphy
I don't think that is true. He seems to assess Madonna and Eminem kind of positively. He infamously gave Limp Bizkit a 7/10...
His thing is more that he hates pop artists given endless plaudits for being experimental, that is why he's quite harsh on Bjork, Bowie, Prince, MJ, any britpop act, etc.
Logan Ross
Yeah but we'd all be better off without that song inventing Autotune.
Luke Green
she's just a self absorbed adult toddler. Seriously, it was cute in the beginning but now it's just gross. Getting all those people to work for her so she can feel like a goddess. It's disgusting actually, all the while hiding it with that manipulative mask of "cuteness"
Matthew Brown
>she's just a self absorbed adult toddler. Seriously, it was cute in the beginning but now it's just gross Especially at the age of menopause.
Henry Adams
So he's got the same issue as Christgau I see. Any time a pop artist does something that isn't in 4/4 time, it becomes faux art rock.
Aiden Bailey
youtube.com/watch?v=ZEZeBB_SHWo&ab_channel=krisztiánlipták >huhuh let's go pick out some random people I want for me next project and bring them over. I feel like a kid in a candy shop >Get a producer of course cause I can't mix for shit >Alright guys let's scream like wild animals and pitch shift it until it sounds decent. >muh experimental
Nicholas Flores
You wouldn't say that about a male solo artist.
David Cruz
It worked for Yoko Ono, didn't it?
Nicholas Scott
also: from that youtube comment section > There's something very shady and honestly kind of gross about a multimillionaire European woman going to a slum in one of Brazil's poorest cities to record poor black men playing traditional drums, only to use that recording to make her fashionable experimental pop statement, without any sort of consideration for the culture the music comes from (Bjork once said Rio de Janeiro reminds her of Ricky Martin, or something like that). Honestly, that's what Medulla's recording sessions boil down to: Bjork going around the world and picking and choosing traditional forms of music to add to her album like she is at grocery store looking for spices. I don't see what is so genius about that. If anything, Medulla is a statement of Bjork's privilege.
Anthony Bailey
I don't think it's about time signatures, He sees it as unjust that some pop music (for example U2) is taken seriously by the media and some is considered lame teeny garbage (Limp Bizkit) because of marketing, PR and/or a discrepancy in image or lyrics. To him musically, much of the time, with all those factors removed, they're actually on the same level
Christgau is more likely to align with basic cultural consensus and is way more influenced by lyrical concerns but has some idiosyncrasies of his own (namely his general hatred of European attempts at sophistication, in the case of Bjork him and Scaruffi find common ground)
Bentley Ortiz
>>Just do not exaggerate her merits. During the 1990s, countless black soul stars have made albums that relied entirely on electronic production instead of traditional instruments. In a veiled case of "blackxploitation", Bjork has adopted that idea and bent it to the intellectual aesthetic ideals of the European culture. When do black people not complain about non-blacks "stealing their music"?
Leo Robinson
>Christgau is more likely to align with basic cultural consensus and is way more influenced by lyrical concerns Though it's interesting that he gave Reign In Blood a B plus simply because it was fast and sloppy. In that case, it wasn't the lyrics so much as the sound.
Jordan Hernandez
Yeah that's why I think genre elitism is stupid. Listen to a punk or a metal or an R&B song from any given year and they're all reflecting the same general ideas in a slightly different way.
James Hernandez
I never understood the appeal of making it sound like the singer just got punched in the windpipe.
Hudson Rodriguez
Yes and let's be honest as well. Her parents were bigshot labor leaders in Iceland, she was hardly not born into a comfortable life.
Eli Morgan
Not him, but with a male doing the same thing we see the situation as being equally as shitty, just without the cuteness involved. Like with Kanye and his famous producers, except instead of "cuteness" it's "coolness" and "street cred" or whatever Kanye's fans like him for.
And I say this as someone who likes Bjork's and Kanye's music. I just recognize that the merit for making this stuff that I like isn't to be attributed to Bjork or Kanye. But maybe it's just me caring mostly about the production (even though it's objectively a huge part in their music).
Jaxon Sanders
Confession time: I've never actively listened to any Kanye song except Stronger.
Dylan Young
I agree. She got away with being a bitch and a retard when she was young and cute, but now that she's in her 50s it's just gross.
Jonathan Morgan
...
Christian Long
I watched that video but her voice was so abrasive I couldn't stand it.
Angel Perez
>without any sort of consideration for the culture the music comes from What would an example of her having consideration for the culture be? I mean, she's appreciating it enough to incorporate it in her music (without saying it's her creation, but instead making it very clear that it's their music that they're giving to her), what is she supposed to do more than that? Get a degree in their culture and writing a book on how great it is before being able to do anything artistic with it?
I don't understand the logic behind this mentality.
I'm an Egyptian living in Europe, and growing up I've had friends belly dancing to egyptian music at the school play, dressing as mummies at halloween, etc. and I was always happy that they were appreciating my people's culture. Was I supposed to be angry because they didn't study it in depth before even thinking about it? Or it's ok because they weren't rich?
Bentley Diaz
>beating people's asses What happened?
I bet it was during her relationship with Goldie.
John Powell
i'm not big on the whole 'cultural appropriation' either. But this was a pretty clear example. She paid some poor guys money, and obviously they agreed. Only to then exploit it without any credit and make thousands of dollars for her own pocket. Alright you see them in the docu but honestly who watches that other than hardcore bjork fans?
Michael Evans
guys i think i have fatal alcohol syndromes
Aaron Butler
and also, shes a fucking hypocrite for saying that from a young age she knew she wouldn't want a record that said bjork on it unless it was her music. It's hardly her music, she just writes the lyrics and probably some of the arrangements. Medulla literally consisted of samples other people made for her
Julian Lee
Giving credit or royalties to them or having them as a feature? I mean, it just comes across as being kind of out there to attach this to her brand when it's not really emanating from her alone
As an example in Egyptian music (and this is fairly worse than Bjork), Timbaland stole various pieces of it (along with Indian music) for samples on various songs without any kind of credit and people weren't aware of the originals until years and years later. The dangerous precedent being set there is that Egyptian music is basically worthless, Egyptian artists are not equal to Western artists and can be pillaged at a whim
Gavin Myers
So aphex was right after all, and not a sexist. That guy was ahead of his time on every front. Wouldn’t you be interested in doing something with Björk the musician rather then with only Björk the vocalist. Oh yeah. I always tell her that anyway. I always say to her: „I don’t understand why you get all these people you should just do it by yourself.“ And she’s been trying. She got her laptop and everything. Maybe she will do that when she’s really old and everyone thinks that she’s not pretty anymore. I think then she’ll have to do it. Because then she won’t be able to get all the little techno boys to work with her because they will be like „Björk? Oh yeah, you mean that old woman. I’m not going to work for her!“ At the moment she can just phone them up, talk some Icelandic and they will be willing to do everything. ... With Björk she’s really business when it come to things like that. When you deal with Björk she‘s like: „Ok, I’m going to fax you the details and you are going to send me that...“ If I‘m going to do a track with someone I’d have to be their friend. I’d have to spend some time with them and you’d have to come around my house and drink fifty cups of tea and smoke some spliffs and get pissed. You can’t just send me the track. That’s really cold and I think she didn’t really understand because she has done it that way all her life. I think she has forgotten how to relate to people.
Anthony Lee
But she's not stealing anything because they accepted the deal of taking money in exchange for their music.
I'm an aspiring musician myself, and if a famous artist came and told me he'd pay me for ghost-producing a song for him, and I accepted to work for money but not credit, would that meaan that I'm being exploited? Even if I'm happy making money with my music? Is it not exploitation only if credit is given? Had she given them proper credit, would those people in the comments be happy and stop calling it exploitation? I don't think so. The only reason they're calling it exploitation is because she's making money by cheaply buying something that poor non-whites have made, that they supposedly sold her because they're poor. But what she did doesn't hurt them (in fact it helps them), because she allowed them to choose between being poor and not sell her their music, and being slightly less poor and sell them their music. They chose the latter because it's the better option for them. It's not like without Bjork they'd have made her amounts of money with that music (or any money at all). They would be exploited if she deliberately destroyed their other sources of income so that they'd be forced to work for her, but she didn't do that. She just offered them some work. I don't see how that can be called exploitation. I'm sure if they were poor icelanders it wouldn't even be an issue.
I agree. I'm . But that has little to do with exploiting the poor brazilians.
Angel Cook
>Giving credit or royalties to them or having them as a feature? I mean, it just comes across as being kind of out there to attach this to her brand when it's not really emanating from her alone If they agreed to this, then she hasn't done them any wrong. If she's pretending it's her music then she's only doing wrong to their fans, not the musicians, since it's the fans being lied to.
>As an example in Egyptian music (and this is fairly worse than Bjork), Timbaland stole various pieces of it (along with Indian music) for samples on various songs without any kind of credit and people weren't aware of the originals until years and years later. This is worse from an artist-to artist standpoint, because it's Timbaland being unfair to another artist because he knows/thinks he can get away with it. Nothing to do with the cultural appropriation/exploitation thing.
>The dangerous precedent being set there is that Egyptian music is basically worthless, Egyptian artists are not equal to Western artists and can be pillaged at a whim I disagree. The only precedent it sets is that Egyptian artists are POWERLESS, not WORTHLESS (sorry for the caps. Imagine it's italics lol). The reason why he felt ok with doing that (I suppose) isn't because he felt "those inferior Egyptians" were below him, and that their music isn't as good/valuable, but instead it was because he knew the Egyptian artists wouldn't find out (being in a semi-separate culture) and would have a hard time going after him. Nothing to do with cultural appropriation, and more about him being a piece of shit, stealing from powerless musicians. It wouldn't be any different than stealing from his poor cousin.
Jonathan Evans
>During the 1990s, countless black soul stars have made albums that relied entirely on electronic production instead of traditional instruments. In a veiled case of "blackxploitation", Bjork has adopted that idea and bent it to the intellectual aesthetic ideals of the European culture What the fuck does this even mean
Colton King
that whole interview is interesting as fuck. I want him to do a podcast or something. Bet he's got so much to say, unfortunately he's not the guy for that. But you can tell he's really intelligent, down to earth and honest.
Ryan Collins
But that isn't what happened. She was there because they were employing her husband to develop a float concerning their culture and history.
They also aren't really on the record if you listen to it.
Social justice is cool, Social Justice is immensely racist if it leaves people to casually assume that Salvador has the same culture as Rio (it doesn't at all) and that they can't possibly themselves commission international artists for major cultural events.
Funnily enough I've seen both Bjork and Gilberto Gil/Cortejo Afro at the same venue in London and her ticket prices were a lot more reasonable. Someone should have told them that they are poor and need to stay out of places like that because they seem to tour them continuously.
Camden Morgan
>In her solo career, past the juvenile Bjork (Falkinn, 1977), the Sugarcubes' singer Bjork Gudmundsdottir adopted the worst vice of their monotonous records, the propensity for trivial dance-pop, but took it to new heights. There is no question that she boasted uncommon vocal skills, although there is also no question that she is lacking in compositional skills, a fact that constantly forced her to team up with famous producers
I never understood the appeal of records made by children unless it was literal children's music. I think Christgau maybe was right in his Jackson 5 reviews when he said that only pedophiles and parents would listen to this kind of thing.
Thomas White
Bjork is extremely annoyed by that general suggestion and the comparison specifically with Kanye West.
funny, this is almost entirely applicable to grimes as well.
Christian Nguyen
Except the cute part.
Josiah Roberts
If people keep saying it and it isn't true. Look at the Matmos interview, they even say she sent the tracks to them complete and couldn't see the point of adding anything to them until she talked them into it.
Thomas Perry
Kanye can produce on his own as well.
Gavin Wright
But you're saying you know, for sure, what she has and hasn't done since 1993. I find this unlikely.
Blake Ramirez
No. I'm just saying that they can both produce and both use talented producers to make their music better or more interesting than it would be if they did everything. This is enough of a similarity between the two to make the comparison valid despite all the other differences (which of course are gonna be there, since they're two different persons).
Tue, but I think people's tendency to discount her input is greatly exaggerated. Everyone knows she's not some DJ Khaled type of musician (that does nothing more than telling others what to do), and that she deserves credit for what she does, but people not that her music is not entirely her own if she employs other producers. Saying this doesn't equal to saying that she has no significant input.
Jonathan Sanchez
Whose music is "all their own"? We don't talk about Bob Dylan or David Bowie like this.
Carson Jones
I'll admit I'm not really sure about those two, but if they hired producers whose input is integral to the music they were making, then their music should also be seen as not entirely theirs.