Is it true that South American schools teach people to hate him?

Is it true that South American schools teach people to hate him?

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youtube.com/watch?v=bSlX36QP_po
mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/home/clean-aztecs-dirty-spaniards
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_warfare#Organization
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
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I don't think they do, we are neutral towards Columbus over here.

m8 you wut?
He was a greath figure here teach us that he just was another euro explorer
>Also
His name is Cristóbal Colón

I heard he's a lot worse in Colombia and the other places he actually visited

Most schools in the US teach there lesson on him straight out of Hoawrd Zinn. It's rather strange because I live in an area with a major Italian presence, so there's statues of him everywhere.

Didn't he do despicable things to Natives that even some Natvies committed suicide because of it?

I assumed that South Americans just threw shit and sacrificed Humans before Columbus arrived; not sure what they have to complain about

that's a funny way of writing Kolombusz Kristóf

That doesn't really give you permission to do it tho

Even his crew were disgusted from his acts

Yeah, he was especially cruel, even for a conquistador. The Taino also didn't do anything to deserve it.

Why not? A means to an end to bring civilisation to the barbarians

It's hard to say that the Aztec, Maya, Inca, etc. didn't have civilization.

Even though they were civilized in a a sense, the Aztec were still the least sympathetic.

>Sympathising with people who made Human sacrifices
If you were to walk into their world, what's a bet they tie you to a table and remove your heart in the name of their God?

Of course not, he wasn't even a conquistador. In my school we were taught that Ferdinand was a cunt for not giving him his welfare when he was old.

Because of it a lot people died

Their sacrifices weren't in that high scale of casualties compared to European colonization

He is Japanese

>little australia thinks he knows about native american culture
You need to learn about your own country first. Study about the Maori culture, learn their language or something.

>A lot of people died
A lot of people died during many times throughout history. Lot's of people die to keep ISIS out of your country; if civilisation isn't important to you then you should let the goatfuckers in yourself

school
public=yes
private=no

Lmao wtf are you smoking?

I said the ones most notorious for sacrificing were the least sympathetic.

How many examples are there of Europeans being sacrificed?

No, we are white and we embrace our white heritance. Fuck Cristina Kirchner for what she did to this statue.

>mfw new worlder scum try to bash our national hero

youtube.com/watch?v=bSlX36QP_po

Conquistadors did literally nothing wrong.

I know that a vast majority of the population of South America was killed. You're more European than not
Europeans being sacrificed by Americans? Not many, because they put an end to it by force

Nah, they were legit civilized regardless of their religion, Moctezuma invited Cortés into his own home even after he'd gone to war with the Tlaxcaltecs and the Totonacs, sure it largely was a political move but he did mean to know his enemy and it appears he did establish a genuine friendship with Cortés.

The Spaniards weren't exactly model guests, they betrayed the Aztecs during one of their religious festivals despite the Aztecs adhering to the ban on human sacrifice they had agreed to with the Spaniards. This unprovoked massacre is what eventually led to the events of La Noche Triste, the Spaniards fleeing Tenochtitlán, those who didn't drown to the lake holding on to the gold they had stolen.

History is not made of ifs, the Aztec behaved as civilized peoples and went out of their way to acomodate Europeans when they first found them.

we can't judge them when we can't don't live in the myth world view

the death-life cycle is exceptionally important to the aztec culture

we see sacrifice as bad because of how the renaissance and greeks established people

in aztec and mayan society people are just the ultimate produce of life, and if life needs sustenance, ie, rain, you spill the proverbial essence, just as you would use very precious water to water your plants

and because they had a natural disaster/eclipse as a part of their foundation myth, it becomes urgent

and no they don't just sacrifice anyone, they were pretty specific, it is not just some throwaway for prisoners, they sacrificed their own first born

So you're telling me when meeting with a force who could crush him empire in an instant he decided to play nice? Surely he was just an honourable and trustworthy man

...

Cortez only won because he had the support of all the surrounding tribes.

And?

The Spaniards by themselves were no threat to the Aztecs, they were badly outnumbered. It was Cortés using those same Tlaxcaltec and Totonaca that allowed him a chance to use the advantages Europeans had. That and the smallpox epidemic no one was counting on.

Sure, Moctezuma did not underestimate Cortés and viceversa, the Spaniards did not arrive as a peaceful embassy however and it was them who started hostilities against the natives.

>if civilisation isn't important to you then you should let the goatfuckers in yourself

What makes you think that South Americans didn't have civilization?

Sure they may be barbaric in a way but over time they would have been less barbaric as a lot of civilization did

>It was Cortés using those same Tlaxcaltec and Totonaca that allowed him a chance to use the advantages Europeans had.
So a superior European mind pulling the strings of the natives to his will? Just proving my point of how useless they were
Depends on how you define civilisation. I don't deny they had no state or culture, but civilised is the last word I would use to describe them. They perhaps would have grown over time, but a push in the right direction helped

Latin America really shows the best traits of the West in action, it should be a case study on how everything that West touches become instantly better.

Well it's not like you could have been worse. And maybe had the Europeans been allowed to stay things would have turned out better. You can't complain about a half cooked meal tasting like shit

Seriously man, it had nothing to do with Cortés being European, he was an exceptional man I'll grant you, and certainly a brave one, but a lot of it came down to others, he would have never succeeded without Malintzin his lover/translator and quite a bit of it was also chance. The man was ruthless, he betrayed his allies and committed enough crimes against the natives he could not be considered an honorable man in Spain at the time. If you want to go down the might makes right route then you should abandon the pretense this is about which persons can be considered civilized.

On that topic
mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/home/clean-aztecs-dirty-spaniards

>And maybe had the Europeans been allowed to stay
where did they go?

Oh man, I seriously hope you're not Mexican because that's some next tier brown nosing if you are

Napoleon forced them out in the 19th century.
I'm not referring to race if that's what you think, I'm referring to culture. If the Romans had sailed to South American in their time somehow and incorporated them that long ago it would be just as great as the height of Europe if not more

lol @ this whole post

The Romans would have probably been slaughtered by the natives.

A professional standing army will seasoned military leaders would be slaughtered by irregulars?

Did you read the article? I think it speaks volumes regarding culture. There weren't abos man, they had a written language and math, a universal education system which was compulsory as well as something similar to higher education, every man had a clean home, they had roads and a post system that allowed them to have fresh fish from Veracruz to be brought into Mexico City every day, etc.

The Spaniards may have destroyed most of Tenochtitlán during their siege, but most of the surrounding towns remained intact and the infrastructure of the Aztec empire was what they used to further their conquests and send vast amounts of wealth to Europe, Mexico has been the world's largest producer for a silver for half a millenia, it remains so today.

Yes, they were bronze age peoples, they didn't have the same headstart as the old world.

And what head start did the old world have?

The Romans could have never invaded in numbers large enough. And they would not have found irregulars, Mesoamerican civilizations had a very evolved warrior culture. The Aztecs were the height of that, they had a sense of military discipline and rank, they attacked in formations, they knew military strategy.

Disease resistance, animals of labour, the wheel.

Also it was easier for those things to spread because of Europe/Asia's relatively flat geography as opposed to Mesoamerica's mountainous geography

This is why Central America is a bunch of different countries as opposed to just 1 big one. There was no feeling of unification because travel was hindered because of thicc jungle and mountainous terrain

Sure they were trained well, sure they were fierce, but no standing army is the sign of disorganised enemy. The Gauls were fierce warriors too and their entire country was taken down by a man whom Rome didn't even want to help in war. Why go to such lengths to defend the people you've conquered?

Something like 100k years of behaviourally modern humans in the middle east? Summer and Egypt laid the foundations upon which later civilizations like the Phoenicians and the Greeks built from.

In Mesoamerica they had to start from scratch something like 12k years ago and they didn't have the advantages of cultural transmision across Eurasia, just what they could do on their own.

Also there were no draft animals in North America.

Remember this is the same time Europeans were burning witches. They were hardly civilized themselves.

And I never said I condoned everything they did. But one side is always better than the other

They had a standing army, wtf are you talking about? Orders like Eagle and Jaguar were permanent. That commoners were drafted for wars doesn't mean they did not have profesionals, Aztecs came up with the flower wars so they could be in a near permanent state of warfare.

They had the wheel, they used the spindle whorl and the potter's wheel. they even had toys which demonstrate they knew how to use wheels for transport. Mind you in an environment in which they could use trajineras (flat bottomed canoes) to transport goods and having no draft animals it wasn't necessary for them, they knew how to use large logs as wheels when trans´porting large pieces of stone for their construction projects.

Not better, in the old world it wasn't the most advanced peoples that won wars but those who specialized in warfare, take the Mongols as an example of peoples who conquered civilizations far more advanced than them.

The Eagle and Jaguar were not a standing army of the state. The Aztecs never had a true standing army. A permanent state of war is not something to be desired by any decent country either

The Mongols conquered empty land in central Asia and a dying Muslim sultanate. If they didn't have such backward laws they would have maybe actually pushed into Europe a far amount. Unless of course you consider China of the 12th and 13th century to really be advanced

Im on your side. I meant for Transport animals/animals of burden and wheels for transportation still would have given them a better advantage than canoes

They were professional orders composed of nobility, not all that different from the feudal system in Europe. And don't start with morality regarding war and it's organization, you just keep moving the posts here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_warfare#Organization

I know what the Jaguar and Eagle are and my point still stands that they aren't a standing army, had you had asked me about Feudalism I would have said the same thing so your point is irrelevant

Seriously people believe he is a meh figure? His mentality is america mentality itself: become a major figure through braveness and ignorance and disrespect of european Authority

I'm also not talking about the morality of war. I'm talking about men dying for no reason. It's wasteful

What about the Turks and the Byzantines? Or the Muslims in their initial expansion? Or Romans falling to Germanic tribes? It's easy to talk about civilized empires being decadent in hindsight and early 20th century historians evolved this into a theory (try reading nonfiction by HG Wells) by which peoples became "softer" as they became sedentary, then ripe to be conquered by nomadic peoples which in turn asimilated into the conquered to continue the cycle.

And medieval China was certainly advanced, much the same as Persians and Indians and other peoples who fell to the Khans.

Oh, my bad, yes I absolutely agree.

You think that the Mongols really conquered them? Answer me these questions. What language do they speak in Mexico? And what language do they speak in Turkey? Tell me who the real conqueror is

Well, he was a cunt and the castillian crown judged him for his crimes in america

They were not killed in war, the flower wars to take prisoners

So if Medieval Europe isn't civilized to you we are dealing with an impossible standard, as I have explained the old world had a head start, what did you expect? Flying ships? They were, by bronze age standards, an extraordinary civilization, that's what I'm saying. My nation is what remains of them and I'll grant we are as much European, if not more so, at this point. Still, it doesn't take away from the fact it was a unique civilization, Only a handful of peoples in history have come up with a writing system on their own, Mesoamerica was one of those.

Europeans burned witches. Spanish Inquisition was extremely skeptic about their existence.

*Kristoff Kolumbus

>If they didn't have such backward laws they would have maybe actually pushed into Europe a far amount.
Didn't Genghis die right when they started pushing into Europe?

That was mainly a Germanic thing. The closet Spain got to it was the Basque trials
Sure it was unique, nobody denies that. Unique doesn't mean it was the right way to go along. Tell me, honestly; would your life be better if the Europeans hadn't discovered America, had you been left alone to evolve your own way instead?

Yes, my point. They dropped everything despite being successful and went all the way back to the middle of fucking nothing to name a successor

>You think that the Mongols really conquered them? Answer me these questions. What language do they speak in Mexico? And what language do they speak in Turkey? Tell me who the real conqueror is

The Mongols didn't give a shit about imposing their culture on people of other civilizations. As long as you submit and paid tax to them they accepted your way of life.

Exceptions go to people living in direct Mongol territory. Hui Muslims and Persian immigrants were discriminated against because the Mongols thought they should adhere to their way of live for things like halal butchery and other shit.

Dude I'm a white guy, do you want me to tell you I'm proud of what my ancestors did? I'm not. I'm not ashamed either, we are talking history, but being a Mexican means I'm as much a heir to the Aztecs as to the Spaniards, maybe even more so. So who won? Because at this point of history I see both as equally valuable, except my flag and my identity are based on the Aztec one and my loyalty is to this land and its people.

It isn't as balck and white as you're making it out to be.

He was a retarded fag, if not for the Pinzon brothers they would have never arrived to the Americas.

I've lived in New Zealand my whole life just as my parents and grand parents but I never once claimed to be Maori. You're picking the side of dead men in the ground

and he died convinced that he arrived to asia

>I've lived in New Zealand my whole life just as my parents and grand parents but I never once claimed to be Maori.
No but they're your countrymen and you should appreciate them and their culture.
You're (probably) Anglo-Saxon in ethnicity and they're Maori but you're both New Zealanders at the end of the day.

The world I live in would not exist without the conquest, it isn't about what would have been better but leaving out my own personal stake on this it would have been really cool if a truly Aztec nation existed in the world today, much like the Japanese. As it is Mexico has contributed a lot to the world from products such as tomato, chocolate or vanilla to a culture which is distinctively unique. what world would it have been had Aztecs been treated better and allowed to evolve on their own.

I always wondered, how did the conquistadors communicate with the aztecs if they spoke different languages

Which we had already colonized 1000 years prior using magic rocks because it's literally impossible to go west and not run into the Americas.

While polynesians had been sailing in a straight line between 10,000 islands the size of small thimbles using coconut trees for the past 3000 years.

is even worst with thes two

>Yes, my point. They dropped everything despite being successful and went all the way back to the middle of fucking nothing to name a successor
It was Genghis that kept them united. It was Subutai's tactics that won the majority of their battles but without Temujin holding everything together there was nothing apart from a bunch of bickering backward tribes.

Says the fucking Aussie. Every Aussie I've ever met has fucking hated Abos
I don't really see your point. My point is that their rules stated that they needed to abandon everything despite the fact they were doing so well, and convene together back in Mongolia.

nigga, vikings just jumped from island to island, don't compare the baby tier viking journey with crossing the entire ocean, or like polyniesians did to arrive to easter island

They destroyed the COMBINED armies of Poland and Hungary on two separate locations in the span of three days.

It was colder though.

Abos have no culture.

Compare Genghis to Alexander and you should see my point.

>It was colder though.

oh, it was colder, even in summer, right? also that's not true, when vikings arrived to greenland the weather was warmer, actually when it changed was when vikings got rekt and had to leave

I may be wrong but your country isn't all that different from other Anglo countries (USA, Canada, Australia) in which Europeans simply took over and wiped out or drove into reservations the natives. That's not Mexico, we became one people regardless of our different origins.

And we've been succesful enough at it the rest of the world looks at us as if we were all one race and whatever porblems our country has it isn't ethnic tensions driving it apart. We are not perfect but each generation grows prouder of its Amerindian roots and culture.It's how our people decided to build a nation.

i thinking you'll find it was Christian Columbington

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

for the people that don't know about this event

>The Medieval Warm Period (MWP), Medieval Climate Optimum, or Medieval Climatic Anomaly was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region that may also have been related to other climate events around the world during that time, including China[1] and other areas,[2][3] lasting from about 950 to 1250

>had the wheel
Only that they didn't use for what is supposed to you desilusional faggot, Egypt had electricity 3000 years ago but was used for gild cheap methals not for ligth or move things, don't you have cars there now? that's what is supposed to be the use of the wheel you Cosmic Aztec piece of filth

Mesoamerica is mostly hills and jungle, wheels would have been a liability compared to Egypt's flatlands.

They used translator, Malintzin pictured here and here was the most influential of those.

On how they first learned there was a Spanish sailor who got shipwrecked amongst the Maya and learned their language a decade prior, Malintzin could translate from Maya to Nahuatl and eventually learned to speak Spanish.

Yes they did, crushed them. Poland and Hungary never stood a chance. And how much of Poland and Hungary did Mongolia end up annexing?
Tell yourself what you like. You speak the language of your invaders. You took their religion, you took their customers, their men took your women. It's not about race, that doesn't matter. Recite me a poem in Nahuatl and then tear the heart from a man and then you can tell me you're one people

ok just remove the roads and cars from there now you wannabe viking

also the lack of horses and oxes

Chill Venancio, if weaving textiles and making pottery are useless to you then fine, like we've mentioned they had no draft animals and plenty of lakes and canals to use. I don't get it why it doesn't make sense to you.

How much of Mongolia did Poland and Hungary annex?

>their men took your women.
It went both ways for some tribes that lasted longer than the Aztecs. They'd raid and take Spanish supplies like food, guns and women.

None at all. They were smart enough not to conquer a bunch of shit flinging barbarians who hated them and spoke no language or held no customs similar to their own

Because you don't use that anymore, that's why makes no sense, isn't hard to explain

They would never recover and gradually get annexed by Austria/Russia/the Ottomans.