I watched the first two episodes of The Young Pope...

I watched the first two episodes of The Young Pope. The main character was a complete piece of shit with no redeeming qualities. Why should I even think about finishing it? The show just made me feel bad.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Lux49tqeOlE
springfieldspringfield.co.uk/episode_scripts.php?tv-show=the-young-pope-2016
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Typical pleb reaction, to hate when they do not understand.

stick to marvel all their characters and likable and quirky.

Was just saying the same thing in another thread, man. The only thing interesting thus far is the head of the church not believing in God.

Explain the appeal. I'm serious, I want to know what you find interesting about him. I'm not calling you and edge lord, but I genuinely want to better understand.

youtube.com/watch?v=Lux49tqeOlE

But seriously, he's a saint.
Tbh if you are willing to watch it until the end I can assure you that you will be blown away. This is not series is about pure love and faith.

Because the general arc of unlikable characters is that they learn why they were wrong and the whole point of stories is understanding that transformation.

>doesn't catch quote from the show

are you fucking kidding me REEEEDDDITTT

>not believing in God
I keep seeing this and it needs to stop. Lenny obviously believes in God it's just that he's struggling with his faith

The show is thrusting you into the position of the cardinals. They've just elected a pope they don't understand, and they're terrified and bewildered by his erratic, seemingly insane behavior. As they spend more time around him and get to better know him, the show starts to humanize him a lot more.

Also, what said as well.

>not liking based Lenny
Fuck even my SJW friends like that dude

This show is kino.

He's not a "villain protagonist". He's the protagonist, and he's deliberately trying to appear to be a "villain" because that's what he sees his job as. The GoT/House of Cards political conflict is not the focus of the show, it's just a plot point in the early episodes as to whether he as protagonist will succeed in "breaking in" the political machine within the Vatican, which he does.

This view of him as a "villain" only gets stupider when plebs try to make the opposition to his papacy be the protagonists or "heroes". It's pretty frigging silly to make blackmailing money-grubbers and oath-breakers, and even literal child molestors be held up as the heroes just because the protagonist is a sincere right-winger who does what he says he'll do.

The biggest thing that's open to interpretation in my view is whether or not he is a "saint" being guided by God, and which of the two opposing interpretations of him, (that can be seen at the same time), are true: whether he's a sincere, devout man who's dealing with the pain of his parents' abandonment and questioning God over it, or a self-obsessed lunatic who is using that pain as an escape from his self-doubt, or possibly as a means to challenge God.
Personally I hold the former view, but it's pretty clear from the last episode that they left things open to interpretation.

TLDR: Good show, you should watch it because whether you like it or not, it has great semi-surreal comedic juxtaposition, and because it is inherently abrasive to the reddit mindset.

making himself a mystery and making the church a mystery, closing it off from the outside world under the guise of drawing people in; I always saw as a depresed isolation while still holding out hope, almost desperately that his parents would come back.

Almost fooling himself that closing off the church would bring people in, and closing off himself would bring his parents in

That was pretty obvious, it was commented on in the show.

Though it's not so clear-cut a case of psychoanalysis when it comes to his papal policy.
Tightening attitudes keeps out fairweather friends and draws in "fanatics", who he even says are what he wants more than popularity.

You can't judge the show on a few episodes. at least watch up to episode 6.

Episode 9 in my opinion is where the show could have ended.

>be Christian
>watched The Young Pope during the Euro airing
>tell everyone how great it is
>now it's in the US
>christbros watch the first episode and immediately assume it's just a catholic-bashing circlejerk and me being lutheran is the reason I like it

You'd love Lenny if you were an actual Catholic. The Church is infested with literal Marxists and liberal nonsense. Something like 60% of American Catholics are okay with abortion. The Church becomes more and more """progressive""" with each passing year and soon the only people left will be the elderly riding out their twilight years in a dwindling congregation that wants female priests and more Christian rock played during services.

Ep 9 was certainly the high point of the series and cemented Gutierrez as best character, but ep 10 was still top-tier. The show ended perfectly imo.

Same, except Catholic and have to explain to other Catholics why the show is great

Think of it as a 10 hour film (it sort of is since Sorrentino co-wrote and directed all of it). 2 hours is like 20 minutes of a 2 hour film. You're judging the entire character on your initial impressions, ones that are sort of designed to make you see him one way when he *spoilers* really isn't

What's odder is being an atheist and explaining to other atheists why I loved this and Silence. I can't even explain to myself why I love films about faith so much, when I have none myself and no qualms about that

Does the HBO release subtitle the latin parts?

Faith and how someone deals with it is complicated and personal, it's only natural that it makes a good story. I don't know if you've ever read The Brothers Karamazov but if you're looking for a story about faith you won't find a better one.

That would be pretty pleb, I hope not.

even sister mary betrays him with the fake parents, what does that mean

I'm generally not a fan of "whoa dude, what really happened" endings.
When there are endings that don't just wrap up every possible character flaw or plot point, I prefer them to leave it clear what HAS happened, but leave it totally up in the air as to what is going to happen in future to these characters. A work that emphasises the possibility of multiple interpretations should let the information that has been revealed to the audience be the source of confusion and dispute, not leave cliff-hangers.

IIRC the only Latin parts are from mass and other ritual proceedings, not speech that directly or even indirectly means anything plot-crucial. The only non-English parts are Italian and a handful of snippets of Spanish.

I don't find it hard to understand, I find it hard to understand how apparently the "consensus" of critics dislike this show because they expected the show about the Catholic fanatic to portray him like he would be in plebbier shows like Game of Thrones or House of Cards, and how they can be so repulsed by the idea of, if not an actual "holy man", then a devout/fanatical Catholic, that they will hold up Voiello as the hero, when he's a Lannister/Underwood archetype at first and what they seemed to think Pius XIII was going to be.

>The Brothers Karamazov
Good choice

Are the Italian and Spanish parts important?

>I find it hard to understand how apparently the "consensus" of critics dislike this show because they expected the show about the Catholic fanatic to portray him like he would be in plebbier shows like Game of Thrones or House of Cards

This, for whatever reason people don't understand an honest reactionary played straight, he's got to be some cynical manipulator.

Italian, yes, especially if you want to understand Voiello, Spanish not really.

I watched it without subtitles, and though I understood the Spanish, I looked at the transcripts for context on the Italian.

springfieldspringfield.co.uk/episode_scripts.php?tv-show=the-young-pope-2016

It goes against their worldview that someone could be like that.

The whole season has three arcs and should be considered as a long ass kino.

It's not a TV show. It's a film.

Time for your snack Holy Father.

Where's my cherry coke zero!?

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

Mediocre show.

Isn't there a growing split between trad Caths and liberal Catholics?

I've heard a lot of the former talking about how shit will eventually hit the fan with Pope Selfie

t. Protestant

I'd call myself a more liberal Catholic but if he was to ever support the ordination of women that would be the final straw for myself and many other Catholics.

But I never see that happening in my lifetime.

Silence is easy for an atheist to like, considering most atheists dream of the kind of Christianity the apostates practice. Hidden away, completely unseen in public society.

>growing split
There've been splits before, it's not a question of "splits" anymore so much as people peeling off from Catholicism.
Pope Francis has been a major disappointment from a tradcath perspective, but from another perspective it's interesting to see what "third rails" and irreversible policy decisions even a hardcore liberal can't touch.

>ordination of women
Not trying to start a Sup Forums flamewar, but what do you define yourself as "liberal" on if you don't even accept liberalism 101: "gender equality"?

I support gender equality but the ordination of women is not that, or at least not to me.

Episcopalians can have all they want of that, it's just not the way of the Catholic Church and I feel that it is not even sexist.

Why was his dream speech so drastically different?

Because it was his nightmare, which is basically the modern Vatican/church.

What about removing celibacy as a expectation for priests?

It's actually just a tradition so apparently a Pope through a Council could end the celibacy requirement.

Personally, I wouldn't fight to see celibacy end but at the same time I realize it's pretty awful having to choose between human instinct to reproduce/have a family and God. Especially when the Apostles all had wives and shit.

I don't really have a source for this beyond some Canadian user on Sup Forums, but aren't they implicitly vetting for that now to stem the influx of homosexuals with no socially acceptable alternative?

Not sure, I'd imagine that'd be big news if Pope Francis was planning anything like that.

It wouldn't help fag priests any though, they still can't fuck men and would still need to be married to any women they fuck.

I guess it would make the job more appealing to heterosexuals though.

It is technically "sexist" though. Nothing wrong with "sexism" as in treating the sexes differently.

In a historical context, I suppose it would be fine to call yourself a "liberal [who is a] Catholic", but in most modern contexts "liberal Catholic" usually means heretic, or someone who plays dumb to raise doubt about the possibility of formally approving heresy.

Conflating "liberal" in secular politics (which was historically looked down upon and should still be IMO) with """liberal""" in adherence to the religion is a deliberate rhetorical ploy designed to guilt-trip people into equating conservation of religious order with the boogeymen liberal society indoctrinates people to fear as the only alternative to social liberalism. It's dishonest enough word games in secular politics, worse in religious.

>A FUCKING LEAF
Not sure what you're talking about. What are they vetting for? I can't parse this post.

I see that also as a core part of the Priesthood, I don't see how your can devote and serve your life to God and of course your congregation if you have wife and kids.

When I was young I was of course more enamored with the Church than I am now and saw Priests above those things. It also made it feel more serious than other denominations that and the pomp and circumstance of it all and it's extremely hard to be above something like sex when we are sexual beings and only devoted to God; which is basically the definition of being pious.

I feel it would take away some of the credibility of the Catholic Church, they might as well be a different denomination.

Well something about Pius Xlll going full Wraith of God in his actions and speech have me smiling check to check so maybe this will make me more of a Traditionalist.

Young Sister Mary is so qt

that scene with her playing basketball made me feel things

LMAOING @ THIS POST

Religion is stupid, the fact that because of a dogma they consider abortion to always be a bad thing shows you how truly stupid religion is.

Get your spirituality back in your own hands and don't let some faggot in robes tell you what is correct based on some interpretation of the words and acts of guy who lived more than 2000 years ago. Which is not even true because first the gospels ain't even univocal and second the church later made up theory which had no connection at all with the old and new testament.

It's not our job to prove to you that the show is good, it's your job to prove to us that it isn't good.

>religion is stupid because it doesn't agree with my 21st century liberal secular morality

not even a christian but fuck off dude

Never said a word about myself so I don't know where you got all that shit. Note how you haven't responded to single thing I've said.

You must be retarded.

Not really the case. The natural order of the world is for the show to not exist. Since it was made it needs to justify itself.

>Never said a word about myself
You told us what you think about religion, you idiot; that user is criticising you for it.

Even if we "argue" with your reddit-tier faux-philosophising, you come out as an idiot.
Its existence is its own justification, particularly when its specific nature as a TV show means that it was brought into existence by the efforts and resources of hundreds of people who thought it worth making.

Mentioning reddit is an instant disqualification. You lose the debate.

Not being able to handle the use of a synecdoche and getting triggered over a word is the real disqualifier m8

>The show just made me feel bad

that's god chasing your faggotry and perversion
you'll be alright

>Even if we "argue" with your reddit-tier faux-philosophising, you come out as an idiot.
>Its existence is its own justification, particularly when its specific nature as a TV show means that it was brought into existence by the efforts and resources of hundreds of people who thought it worth making.
This would imply that no bad product of the same kind can ever be made.
I didn't tell you what I think about religion, I told you facts about religion. It's different.

Instead of going "but those aren't facts, they're just your opinion" please tell me how any of those aren't facts.
Tell me how can they know life is sacred? How can they know an inseminated egg is alive as a human being? Isn't the whole religion based on some unverifiable sources? Aren't the gospel not univocal? Didn't the late church make up their religious theory with no connection to the original sources?

Use your brain.

>This would imply that no bad product of the same kind can ever be made.
Wrong. You said that the natural order of the world was one where this show would not exist, and that justification was needed for it to exist. I rejected that belief, and provided a reason for its existence to boot.
This isn't the same question as the one that was being addressed previously.

>I didn't tell you what I think about religion, I told you facts about religion. It's different.
Do you even read through your own bullshit?
You clearly made a value judgement and expressed your opinion on it.

it was shit

what is that pic?

>that justification was needed for it to exist
Not what I said at all.

Considering all the expressed facts I would say that calling religion stupid is only natural.

Notice how you haven't responded to one single thing yet again.

its funny watching Sup Forums shit themselves over this show, when in the end lenny had to embrace love and all the closed off traditionalism was literally just a coping mechanism for his parents

nvm shitty asmr whore for lonely losers

I've been in enough "arguments" with people who can't keep their questions and positions straight from post to post to know not to bother. Maybe when you get out of high school you'll be able to deal with religion on a philosophical level, but shitposting is something (You) can do without us. Preferably back on reddit.

>sincere right-winger who does what he says he'll do.

he folds on every single policy that you think is so edgy and hardcore , you're an embarrassment

the director of the young pope hates you
you do not have a place in his church

Leave my judgement with that "stupid" aside for a moment, simply tell me if you don't think the things are listed are proven facts.

If you're talking about faggotry, then you're reading too much into it for this baitpost.
All that Lenny agreed to was to allow Gutierrez to remain his advisor and confidante, because he trusted him and knew his status as a homosexual addled by rape as a child would make him ideal as a weapon to use the gay-pedo underculture against those who spread its influence.
He also kept him on his side from the outset of his papacy, not after some watershed moment the damage-control types are claiming.

>this is a fisher of men

>Leave my judgement with that "stupid" aside for a moment,
No, because that was what I took objection to, and I refuse to have strawman words put in my mouth, particularly when you don't maintain any consistency in those coming from your own.

You said "religion is stupid because [*tipping*]".
Another user said "fuck off dude". You then said, (incorrectly) that you never said anything about your own religious views, when your previous post was all about religion.I pointed this contradiction out , and then your response was to double down on the incorrect assertion that you did not state what you think about religion, and started trying to reframe the discussion by shifting the focus from your pleb opinions to a deluge of contextless pre-packaged atheist rhetorical irrelevancies you only brought up for damage-control purposes, and are now trying to pass off as having been the object of contention all along. HEEM yourself.

>No, because that was what I took objection to
Christ, religiousfags are so insecure.

Go hang yourself so that you can be with your god now, I've had enough of you, I'm not even going to read your post, I tried to discuss calmly but you've your head deep up your ass.

I love americanposting, best meme of 2017

>Christ, religiousfags are so insecure.
Funny considering how you got so touchy about others presuming to know what you think based on what you told them what you think, that you'll project so strongly onto religious people.

> I'm not even going to read your post, I tried to discuss calmly but you've your head deep up your ass.
I conclusively proved that you did not, and it was in fact your anus that was obstructed by your cranium.

>dumb frogposter
I'm not reading your comments anymore, you wasted your choice.

I think I made the right choice given how buttflustered you are.

Thanks for the (You), feel free to give me more.

(You)'s are only consolation if you were only pretending to be retarded.

You're just wallowing in your patheticness at this point.

Would what Lemmy is doing actually destroy the Church?

you've been primed to hate egoists so much so that you can never learn from them and improve yourself. Imagine the ego on the (((people))) who made you believe that.

I like the show a lot, but Sup Forums trying to be "deep" about it like this is the most reddit thing I've seen in my life.

DUDE CATHOLICS LMAO

your mom is deep

Why?

Opposing abortion seems like a pretty reasonable thing for a religion to do, you know with the whole sanctity of life thing

Why wouldn't you pick something that's less about morality like them opposing homosexuality which really hurts no one?

I'm not even religious and I think abortion is wrong
I'm not going to make it illegal, I'm pro choice, but it's something I would never want to happen to my child and I would oppose someone wanting to abort my child regardless of circumstances

>all religious believe human life is sacred. But only human life, hehe ;)
>only religiousfags can be stupid
I don't like abortion either per se. I don't use any dogma to hide behind, though.

why the fuck did the protagonist have to be this HAHA FUNNY SARCASTIC FAGGOT? couldn't there be just one show with a super serious no-smiles protagonist?
his character was just so fucking retarded with the constant out of place awful jokes for no reason, and whilst i'd like to say that the plot is too deep for the likes of you but perfectly intelligible for intellectuals such as myself the plot wasn't deep it was pointless
i didn't like this show all that much, it wasn't worth watching at all, sure some of the things he says and does makes me think the character is smart, just what i want, but then he does something retarded and i lose all sense of respect for him and the writers, there are several completely out of place scenes just for the FUNNIES, why did they need to be there?
not to mention that they just make him "smart" and "knows everything" without proving that he's actually smart without displaying how he gathers whatever information he pertains

maybe i'm just a fucking faggot myself for not wanting to witness him dealing with his inner turmoil about his parents, but what sort of plebeian plot is that? inner turmoil is for wusses

have you ever considered that some people agree with their religion and that's why they follow it?

People within a religion can still read into their beliefs, I'm a strict vegan and I think this brings me closer to what god wants

God gave us dominion over animals, dumbo.

>have you ever considered that some people agree with their religion and that's why they follow it?
That's a stupid behaviour symptom of not having a will.
>People within a religion can still read into their beliefs
No, you can't. Certainly not if you're catholic. It's called heresy.

Maybe the way he's going about it.
But going back to tradition is going to be the answer eventually. Traditionalist churches are the only ones that are growing and have young families in love with the faith.

plebeian asmr hag

>the main character was a complete piece of shit with no redeeming qualities

I love when people fault works of fiction for realism.

Reddit seems to be trash-talking this show, saying that it's NOT deep.

It's a bit jarring sometimes, but Jude Law makes it work.
I accept it as part of the show not being about hyper-realism; the characters do things and think things in ways that aren't exactly "true" to life, but are designed to be evocative more than in a "descriptive" portrayal.

In that context, the quippiness and sarcasm make sense as a "flighty" way to portray the character as incredibly smart but incredibly abrasive.
The early episodes especially make him come across as perhaps the greatest autismo to ever be put on screen, though as the show winds on the emphasis on his weirdness is on him as a "misunderstood artistic soul".

K I N O

This. OP is too pleb to understand how a tv series is supposed to work

>getting this triggered

He doesn't fold on too much actually. So far

The Church is already destroyed. Christian Europe is being invaded and the only thing that the Pope does is kiss the feet of migrants. Lenny would be a step in the right direction, though.

> Lenny
> Not believe in God
You have to listen. He's believing in God because he's doubting Him. You can't doubt if you don't believe.

He wants to show God how his faith is perfect and how God failed him despite that. God failed him (because of his parents) so sometimes Lenny thinks He failed because He doesn't exist, sometimes he thinks He failed him because his faith wasn't strongh enough (meaning Lenny believes in God)

That's the story of most deeply religious people. They just don't get to be Pope most of the time.

Also is show is extremely esthetic and that's why we love it. For the italian parts, get subs.