*federalizes*

Jacob Carter
Jacob Carter

*federalizes*

All urls found in this thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Committee_on_United_Europe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/U.S.-Involvement-in-the-European-Union-20150918-0024.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/
https://www.euractiv.com/section/endocrine-disruptors/news/meps-back-down-from-eu-bisphenol-ban/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya#Chronology
Oliver Miller
Oliver Miller

Why are there so many pro-europeanist in this board?

Jaxon Anderson
Jaxon Anderson

pedos and pedo money running withing thier pedo circles like blueshare

Adam Campbell
Adam Campbell

Because EU is objectivly a good thing

Justin Rodriguez
Justin Rodriguez

say something about the EU
A german comes to defend it.

Always...

Gabriel Howard
Gabriel Howard

Because EU is objectivly a good thing

Josiah Myers
Josiah Myers

Thank you lord Macron.

Have you guys seen the anti-immigration laws he's just had drafted?

Aiden Long
Aiden Long

A german
I am European

James Lopez
James Lopez

Right my European friend, let's turn Europe into a bigger version of Yugoslavia, what could go wrong
In science we trust right?

Adrian White
Adrian White

Because Sup Forums is /pol/ for people that don't like /pol/.

Ian Ross
Ian Ross

You only said It is good but You are not giving proofs of your statements. All the trade We have in Europe could be done without an European Union.

Grayson James
Grayson James

The Germans would stand to lose the most if the EU actually federalizes, they profit the most off the current state of the Union.

Josiah Moore
Josiah Moore

I actually started a thread on that topic just amomen ago.

Justin Campbell
Justin Campbell

You are basically doing this to trigger the /pol/tards?

Kevin Jones
Kevin Jones

You're going to get banned though, watch it Vlad...

Jaxon Sanchez
Jaxon Sanchez

You really think we could have the same amount of trade without a single market?

elaborate please

Jordan Rodriguez
Jordan Rodriguez

single market, no quotas
EU as a whole can negotiate better trade deals than single countries(see all the recent EU trade deals)
freedom of movement
cohesion funds
environment protection
and many more

Joshua Bailey
Joshua Bailey

BASED EU friends <3

Levi Bennett
Levi Bennett

What exactly is wrong with a single European country.

Jose Lopez
Jose Lopez

Well, it implies Switzerland has joined, which is of course unacceptable.

Bentley Nguyen
Bentley Nguyen

I'm doing it because I support the EU.

William Nguyen
William Nguyen

US butthurt

Adam Brown
Adam Brown

you can have common regulations between 27 countries without having a dedicated body to draft them
you can remove non-tariff bariers without common regulations and standards
you can have just-on-time delivaries without doing away with internal borders
you can have all of the above without doing away with national subsidies

Jose Morgan
Jose Morgan

Just about everything for you, Ivan.

Nicholas Smith
Nicholas Smith

SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI

Christian Nelson
Christian Nelson

I don't care. My country is dead and I am planning to kill myself soon.

Ryan Bailey
Ryan Bailey

environment protection

That can be perfectly endorsed by national governments.

freedom of movement

You can have open borders with other nations, It is a matter of diplomacy .

EU as a whole can negotiate better trade deals than single countries(see all the recent EU trade deals)

That is true

single market, no quotas
The single market is benefitial for some countries. The fact is the very year my country entered the EU, our industry went to the hell.

cohesion funds

I guess that is positive as well.

Jose Butler
Jose Butler

Get the fuck outta here with your federalisation bullshit.
Y'all already know I'm moving to Switzerland if that actually happens

Josiah Phillips
Josiah Phillips

you will be always a second-class citizen there

Caleb Rodriguez
Caleb Rodriguez

Because EU is objectivly a good thing.
It has only increased Trade in Europe at loss of nothing.

Samuel Garcia
Samuel Garcia

Better than living in a federalised shithole country

Hunter Sanchez
Hunter Sanchez

Traitor.

Jonathan Taylor
Jonathan Taylor

how would a federalised EU personally affect you?

Aaron Morgan
Aaron Morgan

It may be something positive now but It is starting turning into something that may not be that good. If It is for real and the eurocrats want a further integration, that could be not so good.

Brody Nelson
Brody Nelson

It will happen one day, but this is still decades away
hopefully they'll be so wise to give the individual countries as much autonomy as possible, because there's always the question why countries like finland and portugal or ireland and greece for example should share the same government when they have barely anything in common anymore as the farthest extent

Nolan Perry
Nolan Perry

not really. the eu makes it even easier for us to control europe.

Connor Butler
Connor Butler

lol no

Thomas Williams
Thomas Williams

Ok Germany

Gavin Hughes
Gavin Hughes

If It is for real and the eurocrats want a further integration, that could be not so good
why not?

Tyler Flores
Tyler Flores

lol no

Matthew Morgan
Matthew Morgan

lol ebic meem

Anthony Gomez
Anthony Gomez

What is wrong with federalization? It would unify the tax code, integrate the markets, create bigger public healthcare unit that would cut costs down etc.

John Lewis
John Lewis

Just by knowing the history of my own country. The ideo of Spain was to unite all iberians under one religion, one crown and one state. Everyone and every culture was respected, people talking of the spains and not spain. Guess what? Centralization happened and one of cultures started dominating the other. sooner or later It will happen in an European federation.

Owen Lopez
Owen Lopez

Yes of course do i want my region to be governed by Brussels
Yes of course do i want my region to be entirely unimportant because other regions absolutely trump us in population
Yes of course do i want a government that has no idea about all the different needs of the vastly different regions of Europe

Jaxson Sanchez
Jaxson Sanchez

That is a general global trend in the first place, old and small languages die all the time. I don`t really think that trying to hold onto old Europe at the cost of everything else is worth it.

Camden Powell
Camden Powell

Because a federation is comparable to two centralized monarchies united by a royal wedding

Alexander Harris
Alexander Harris

This.
The people in charge even in our national and federal states are way to removed from the common people.
I don't believe that it's possible to govern the EU.
Just look at it now.
We don't care about the problems of Bulgaria or romania, and I doubt that a finnish person really cares about what's going on in portugal. The only ones who will profit are the lobbies, because they can force their shit into politics on a bigger scale.

Landon Green
Landon Green

Read about what a federation is

Andrew Gomez
Andrew Gomez

Just because it happened to Spain doesn't mean it has to happen everywhere. My own country, Germany, is a federation, where the states were able to keep their influence and their identity.

People want an EU federation, not an EU centralised state

Evan Edwards
Evan Edwards

Why do all the libshits love the EU so much?

Basically zero democracy at the EU level. Is that what you want?

Jaxson Allen
Jaxson Allen

The crown of Aragon was not centralized, heck they did not even had a common currency in the Aragonese crown and the castillian kingdom gave a lot of privileges and self-govenment to places like the basque country.

Colton Price
Colton Price

Basically zero democracy at the EU level.
We do have a democratlically elected EU Parliament

Connor Baker
Connor Baker

Yes, but not to all regions like a federation would.

Christian Gonzalez
Christian Gonzalez

A federal EU would presumably come with a reshaping of the EU parliament and bureaucracy as it would take on many different functions previously held by national governments. I imagine they would make those positions accountable to the general population if they ever went through with this shit.

Henry Campbell
Henry Campbell

EP

First of all the EP is powerless. Secondly, they are a bunch of morons, and worst, traitors.

Don't kid yourself. We don't have democracy. Just look at how the Monsanto thing was handled. When the monied lobbyists come knocking the EC will bend over backwards for them, but not for you.

Robert Jones
Robert Jones

doesn't even have a single language

Nicholas Barnes
Nicholas Barnes

Chosen by politicians. yeah , I know they were elected by the people but I do not trust politicians or the state either even If they were elected.

There will be a dominant culture, You cannot avoid that. Once this happens the rest of cultures will be attacked and seen as things of peasants and people from the countryside till those cultures and people are destroyed forever.

Wyatt Peterson
Wyatt Peterson

Beshrenkt?
Where the fuck do you live? Besides Bavaria and the difference between the big blocks like east and west, north and south there are almost no differences left between our states?
NRW, RLP, Hessen are all the same.

Levi Campbell
Levi Campbell

Notice how everyone itt hates the eu except the germans. Makes you think

Samuel Morales
Samuel Morales

Petition to make this the european federation's flag, looks prettier than the EU one

Asher Gutierrez
Asher Gutierrez

EP is powerless because the sovereignty lies still within the member states, so the head of the states make all the decision. If EU was to federalize, the power would move to the European Parliament

Adrian Kelly
Adrian Kelly

toohabsburg/5

Levi Bennett
Levi Bennett

Or this

Nathaniel Peterson
Nathaniel Peterson

la creatura...

Oliver Perez
Oliver Perez

el goblino marrone...

Jaxon Ross
Jaxon Ross

Good observation from the mutt, the EU objectively benefits Germany above every other country, southern countries were better off without the EU.

Jackson Thompson
Jackson Thompson

If EU was to federalize, the power would move to the European Parliament

And doesnt that worry you?

I mean, Doesnt worry you that a bunch of politicians that have nothing to do with you, totally strangers and foreigners could rule and decide what you and your folks could and should do?

Jose Bailey
Jose Bailey

Not really. What you don't understand is that the Germans are very statist, very subservient to the state, very loyal to the politicians. That is why the NAZI flourished, there. That is why their worker unions work with the employer so effectively. It's a big part of their culture. In a way, if you look at history is it the reason they become Germany. It was all the Germanic tribes who were willing to surrender their power to become a great thing.

Sebastian Martinez
Sebastian Martinez

I know they were elected by the people but I do not trust politicians or the state either even If they were elected.
If you generally distrust the politicians, what difference does it make to you if Spain or EU is in charge?

There will be a dominant culture, You cannot avoid that.
EU gives a lot of subsidize for perservation of local culture and traditions

Easton Clark
Easton Clark

First one was better.

Owen Hernandez
Owen Hernandez

"hey lets set up this group to trade coal and steel kinda more effective with the chinks since our economies are so connected anyway"

Jack Morales
Jack Morales

How is it different from politicians who sit in German parliament? You seem to have a problem with politicians in general

Anthony Lee
Anthony Lee

That is not true. The EC holds considerable sway. I was contrasting the two.

Of course the Council is most powerful still, but for EU wide legislation you can clearly see that the EC is getting it their way all the time and the EP is for show.

Cameron Robinson
Cameron Robinson

Kinda blank desu

Justin Ramirez
Justin Ramirez

"I don't trust the pilots, I think the passengers of this plane should pilot it! Who is with me?"

Jayden James
Jayden James

what difference does it make to you if Spain or EU is in charge?

That the govenment of Spain is closer. If spain becomes a despotic regime, It will beeasier to fight back against a spanish state than fighting against a supranational state like an European federation. The closer the government are to the people, the easier It is to control them.

Leo Collins
Leo Collins

Oh you meant the first i posted, my bad

Camden Cooper
Camden Cooper

EP politicians who are Europhiles do not see themselves as members of their native land, but rather as members of the EU. This is problematic because sometimes they support legislation that actively harms their native land. And they are the ones in charge of representing that land. If they don't nobody will.

Jordan Young
Jordan Young

The mechanic is putting sugar in my cars engine, but that's fine, because he's a mechanic

Juan Brooks
Juan Brooks

Have fun. This should go really well for you, Icarus.

Joshua Thompson
Joshua Thompson

No, their heads of state are in charge of representing their lands in the Council. The representatives in parliament are there for the UE-wide population, which elected them.

Jordan Stewart
Jordan Stewart

Most Americans don't know or care about the European Union

Hunter Gonzalez
Hunter Gonzalez

I mean, Doesnt worry you that a bunch of politicians that have nothing to do with you, totally strangers and foreigners could rule and decide what you and your folks could and should do?

How is that different from national parliaments, do you know them personally?
You probably have a lot more in common with the average Sup Forums user than most of your countrymen, despite most of them being foreigners.

Every time I see someone writing about a lack of democracy in the EU it comes down to "the EU didn't do exactly what I/my country" wanted it to do, therefore it's undemocratic."

Zachary Roberts
Zachary Roberts

So they work for the good of all European people, instead of trying to amass special privileges for their local tribe? And that is a bad thing?

EP can't be powerful as long as the sovereignty lies within the member states

Thomas Green
Thomas Green

So elect different politicians to the EP.

Daniel Jenkins
Daniel Jenkins

A multinational federal state would presumably have legal means of secession, if such a polarizing issue arose between one people and the rest, they could then exercise this right.

Aiden Perry
Aiden Perry

If spain becomes a despotic regime, It will beeasier to fight back against a spanish state
Didn't work out so well with Franco, did it?

Easton Davis
Easton Davis

*dissolves*

Carson Collins
Carson Collins

Il demonio....

Eli Evans
Eli Evans

Francos government was benovolent and people had no complaints.

Luis Morgan
Luis Morgan

il miscuglio mannaro...

Julian Campbell
Julian Campbell

El terrone...

Mason Flores
Mason Flores

How is that different from national parliaments, do you know them personally?

yes, It does. That is why I am in favour of a smaller government and descentralization. Heck, with all the technology There is, It is not that difficult to implement some kind of direct democracy with a very limited government which its only purpuse would be to ensure the security and rights of the people.

Levi Turner
Levi Turner

Neither did the EU manage to stop the war in the ukraine, eventhough they are our neighbours.

Blake Taylor
Blake Taylor

implement some kind of direct democracy
Where did you get that from? States have only become more and more complex to run.

Wyatt Torres
Wyatt Torres

he thinks Americans think about Europe as often as Europeans think about the USA

Henry Robinson
Henry Robinson

Franco was helped by Germany and Italy and had a professional army. The republican side was peasants with arms and yet Franco needed three years to win the war.

Angel Clark
Angel Clark

Fuxk the EU xhristian club
USA ftw
We Albanians wont give in to europian power, ever again

Jaxon Lopez
Jaxon Lopez

Ukraine isn't in the EU or NATO
We were under no obligation

Samuel Watson
Samuel Watson

why are albanians so cancerous?

Adrian Cox
Adrian Cox

posts in this thread

Nicholas Morales
Nicholas Morales

Shut up, Benito. Did Merkel gave you permission to speak?

Luis Carter
Luis Carter

I recognize that a state is needed but desicions like laws that could affect the people and other things could be voted by the people.

Jackson Gonzalez
Jackson Gonzalez

So, you're telling me you would be willing to die for some dumb german conflict that has absolutely nothing to do with Britain and wouldn't affect you at all under normal circumstances?

Henry Long
Henry Long

no really, every albanian acts like some cheap whore to americans or turks
why is that?

James Russell
James Russell

El veneziANO....

Jaxson Clark
Jaxson Clark

What the fuck are you even on about? How would Germany start some pointless war without being a sovereign entity?

Zachary Miller
Zachary Miller

You're sucking German cock atm

Chase Garcia
Chase Garcia

I don't know about turks, but USA is the best. The only thing you eurocucks can do is cry about it here.
Long live USA and its power!

Lincoln Walker
Lincoln Walker

Why do Euros not value Democracy, Freedom and independence?

Jack Rivera
Jack Rivera

If it's a federal state there can be conflicts, just like in every civil war, but if the Bavarians and the Swabians would start a war against each other it wouldn't even directly effect all of germany.
Just like the conflict between catalunya and the rest of spain (even if that's far from a real war) doesn't effect german life.

Jackson Richardson
Jackson Richardson

t. Burger in vacation

Lucas Cooper
Lucas Cooper

Dude centralize everything to Benelux area lmao
The eternal Burgandian does it again. They tried with the Habsburgers and now with this crap

Landon Murphy
Landon Murphy

don't project your faggotry on me, those are my first 2 posts ITT

Leo Ortiz
Leo Ortiz

Democracy is flawed

Evan Thomas
Evan Thomas

Im pure Albanian

Xavier Ortiz
Xavier Ortiz

Because they are turks.

Henry Hernandez
Henry Hernandez

Did you start learning Albanian yet, Hasanoviç?

Asher Roberts
Asher Roberts

I'm a nerdy weirdo. Do you think Sup Forums is a popular site, and that the user base here is in any way representative of any population?

Easton Cook
Easton Cook

When would Germans ever go to war with each other? The era of the HRE is over. If Russia was invading the Baltic's or any other East EU country then I would.
A successful Russian invasion of the East means they would eventually come for Britain.

Brody Torres
Brody Torres

You cray cray if you think civil wars don't affect other countries. Countries rely on each other to provide stuff to their people. Countries in Europe are very interdependent economically, even the ones outside the EU.

Jaxon Collins
Jaxon Collins

Pro-European grand coalition government confirmed in Germany today

Prepare for European military, fiscal union, eurozone budget, European finance and foreign ministry direct election of the commission president.

Juan Collins
Juan Collins

A successful Russian invasion of the East means they would eventually come for Britain.
Bullshit

Landon Wood
Landon Wood

direct election of the commission president
About time.

Matthew Murphy
Matthew Murphy

Lets put the the comission and the second chamber in Brussel
Oh and the main chamber in Strasbourg
And the justice and courts? Oh I know in Hague
Jeez I wonder who is behind the EU. They coukd just call it Charles the Bold wettest dream at the pace crap is going

Michael Brown
Michael Brown

There are no legitimate reasons to dissolve the EU and nationalism is not one of them.

Ethan Mitchell
Ethan Mitchell

I didn't.

Ryan Davis
Ryan Davis

Prepare for European military, fiscal union, eurozone budget, European finance and foreign ministry direct election of the commission president.

Christopher Cooper
Christopher Cooper

The court is in Luxembourg. What's the problem with putting several government branches in different cities? About 20-30 states in the world do this but someone who's lives in a cucked unitary state wouldn't know this.

Carter Barnes
Carter Barnes

There are no legitimate reasons to dissolve the EU
Jeez. Who could be behind this post?

Ayden Garcia
Ayden Garcia

Either that or support an internal coup

William Morales
William Morales

ah yes

Cameron Miller
Cameron Miller

The court is in Luxembourg
Oh goy this other court is not in this Burgandian city, it is in this other one!
Louis XI did nothing wrong . You ruined Castile once and you won't do it again you fucking waffle eating psychos

Brody Stewart
Brody Stewart

Nothing is better than watching remainers cry. Bring it on.

Elijah Scott
Elijah Scott

I hope the Swiss BTFO this neoBurgandian empire as they did in the XV century you people are psycopaths

Tyler Long
Tyler Long

I've got a directly-democratic veto right on my national parliament.

Asher Walker
Asher Walker

Based Swiss BTFOing the eternal Burgandian yet again

Daniel Morales
Daniel Morales

The Swiss are a de facto EU vassal state. They are paying more into the budget than like half of all full EU member states while having zero democratic representation. They are also adopting virtually all legislation.

Adam Cox
Adam Cox

Understimating the Swiss
How did that go for you Burgandian fucks the last time you tried?

Asher Cruz
Asher Cruz

dismal post

Austin Williams
Austin Williams

Paying tribute to another political power whose directives you have to adopt. What's that called again?

Brayden Richardson
Brayden Richardson

I really hope not. I don't want another Grandson.

Carson Clark
Carson Clark

Oh Charlie Charlie how arrogant and dumb can you be? People can see through your Burgandian perfidouness

Hudson Russell
Hudson Russell

Oh goy give your sovereignity to use good Burgandians.
We are good with Shekels and not imperialistic at all
Just send some envoys to Brussels or Strasbourg or Luxembourg and we will do what you ask!

Jonathan Sanders
Jonathan Sanders

We are the fourth economy of the EU with brits out, and yet we have no real voice on it, we're a second class country.

Jaxon Turner
Jaxon Turner

Cast off your shackles medman! Revolt against your Northman oppressors!

Aaron Brown
Aaron Brown

friendly reminder that european union is foremost to avoid another war across all european coutries again.

Jonathan Bailey
Jonathan Bailey

you go girl

Leo Cruz
Leo Cruz

contrarianism and third worlders

Carson Scott
Carson Scott

The eternal Anglo fears the EU

Dominic Smith
Dominic Smith

tfw you will never become euro killing separatist

Jack Hernandez
Jack Hernandez

no one fears the EU

Tyler Sullivan
Tyler Sullivan

true that. its also something quite dissapointing about europe

some governements inside europe are not even afraid of fucking over EU laws. brussels parliament gets cuked frow eveywhere and never show anything else than a generic "we are upset about this"

not even talking about brexit

Alexander Adams
Alexander Adams

some governements inside europe are not even afraid of fucking over EU laws.
What do you think federalism is all about?

Dylan Powell
Dylan Powell

That's why we are going full USE

Justin Sanchez
Justin Sanchez

Because everyone knows the EU is toothless and laughable. The whole migrant crisis showed how weak and impudent Europe really is.

Adrian Morris
Adrian Morris

That is exactly why a federation is needed.

Michael Hernandez
Michael Hernandez

based

Ryan Jones
Ryan Jones

Giving the EU bureaucrats more power will only make the problems worse.

Jordan Parker
Jordan Parker

Not really, Spain and Portugal were poor as hell (and under dictatorships).

Jayden Perry
Jayden Perry

This might be the most accurate thing I've heard.

Jeremiah Cook
Jeremiah Cook

You aren't giving "the EU bureaucrats" more power. Nobody in their right mind would federalize and keep the old administration the same. All positions from national governments would have to go somewhere.

Bentley Wright
Bentley Wright

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP
mon derrier!

Alexander Reyes
Alexander Reyes

Because the EU is objectively a good thing.

Lincoln Walker
Lincoln Walker

*dissolves

Honestly, EU is just another Austria-Hungary waiting to happen.

Jordan Nelson
Jordan Nelson

I don't really see how you can compare the two aside from centralized rule of one entity and many different ethnicities.

Nolan Mitchell
Nolan Mitchell

Muh prison of nations xdddd

Aaron Butler
Aaron Butler

multicultural
multilingual
parts of it hate other parts
vast economic differences between the parts
ruled by ivory tower elites
convinced of its own necessity

Seriously, even the motto of the EU is an oxymoron.

Angel Price
Angel Price

I'm making fun of him, not you

Thomas Bailey
Thomas Bailey

muh perfect western politicians

James Jenkins
James Jenkins

Having an Austrian ruling over Italy
Having a Greek ruling over the UK

Its ludacris, if we mixed and became european mutts and adopted a single culture and language it would work, but right now its impossible.

John Jackson
John Jackson

An USE would eliminate all those billions of laws and deals between the EU countries, making shit much, much more convinient. Also it would make a stronger player in the global market.

Nathan Cook
Nathan Cook

Please support Transylvanian independence

Samuel Mitchell
Samuel Mitchell

The EU doesn't need homogeneity to work, it just needs a democratic structure that doesn't enable a handful of politicians to rule over the different states

Jack Myers
Jack Myers

letting foreigners vote about what you can and can't do

Jackson Lee
Jackson Lee

MFW i will be able to vote on what happens in the Czech Republic in my lifetime
Good times to come!!!

Brody Sanders
Brody Sanders

The whole thing is going to dissolve in a few years after Italy goes bankrupt and Germans refuse to bail them out.

Logan Allen
Logan Allen

italy goes bankerupt
Say what. This is the nation where slightly half the year you can be on paid vacation.

Jack Bell
Jack Bell

As an american who thinks more federalization would be good for U.S. interests, it seems from the outside that the EU basically has three problems:
1. There is no pan-EU right-wing. The concept suggested in the name 'PEGIDA' was promising, but that was just misdirection.
2. The division of rights and powers between national and EU bodies is not easy for common people to understand. The treaties are too long, and it isn't easy to simply sum up in a few sentences how powers are divided. What this means it that it becomes rational to worry about power-grabs and slippery slopes, leading to eventual dissolution of national difference.
3. The structures created by the treaties and the rules of the treaties themselves lock in place certain policies that in a typical polity would be subject to left-right debate. In most cases, the policies locked in are neoliberal, which means that this unnecessarily creates an euro-skeptic left (e.g. the Corbyns and the Podemos guys).

Lincoln Edwards
Lincoln Edwards

objectively good for a country that rigs its export economy at the expense of Italy, Greece, and Spain?

you created a monetary union but demand other countries play by your fiscal rules too. that's not the original spirit of the EU at all

Daniel Brown
Daniel Brown

Have a look at their debt to GDP ratio, how long on average does one government last and the news about their banks. They are another Greece waiting to happen and Greece is still happening.

Easton Perry
Easton Perry

kek
lmao at your delusions

Christian James
Christian James

We just need to dump southern Italy and we are good to go

Parker Martin
Parker Martin

The e""""u""""is a corrupt and higly bureaucratic corporate shithole. It is bound for disbanding.

Ayden Ramirez
Ayden Ramirez

I really don't see it happening. Maybe if it was only the OGs of ECSC, but as is, there are too many members who don't want it. Maybe bit by bit.

Also, common army is objectively the best option for European security. With 1% of EUs GDP we could have an army that eclipses Russia, yet doesn't threaten the US.

Nolan Barnes
Nolan Barnes

The german GroCo agreed to pay more into EU today.
It's happening.

William Turner
William Turner

US butthurt
Can't believe an EU shill doesn't know all about how much we pushed for the ECSC, EC, and consequently the EU back in the day. We even threatened to cut France off from Marshall Plan aid if they did not cooperate with Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Committee_on_United_Europe

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/U.S.-Involvement-in-the-European-Union-20150918-0024.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

Your nigger-barbarian antics in the first half of the 20th century caused millions of our soldiers to die, all for fucking nothing but a childish tantrum. Forcing you into the ECSC like a petulant child into the corner is exactly what the USA needed to stop sending our citizens over to die on your shitstained soil.

So fuck off you uninformed and ungrateful peasant.

Wyatt Peterson
Wyatt Peterson

Because a federal Europe could easily counter both America and Russia and be a global superpower

Nathan Scott
Nathan Scott

1. Don't buy products made in what's left of the e""""u"""".

2. Push the southern/northern divide to the extreme by any means necessary. A southern secession will lead to a greatly revalued euro and thus a negative trade balance for what's left of the e""""u"""".

3. Push more refugees into western Europe. Westerners will try to coerce eastern countries into accepting refugees even harder, making an eastern/western schism even more plausible.

4. Sabotage their production facilities both domestic and abroad.

5. Execute all their executives, agents and local collaborators.

Cameron Allen
Cameron Allen

Parliament doesn't have any testicles because its influence over the budget is minuscule. The real power is in the Commission and always has been.

The EU as an organization can't be called undemocratic (as all officials are either voted upon or appointed by elected officials), but the way it passes legislation is undemocratic. If you want to call it democratic, you need to grant full "power of the purse" to the Parliament.

Hudson Reyes
Hudson Reyes

That was back when USSR was your big enemy and you wanted a strong united western Europe.
USSR is no more, Russia is a mere shadow of it.

Andrew Howard
Andrew Howard

pay more into the EU
How much? We are not talking pennies like Bulgaria's education budget. We are talking about bailing out a 60 million people country. Every sane German politician is going to be against it and this time the excuse of saving the Euro and losing less isn't going to work.

Jaxson Turner
Jaxson Turner

Northern Italy has a better productivity than some areas of Germany. You don't know what you're talking about

Matthew Myers
Matthew Myers

Federal Europe is a pipe dream of a few intellectuals willing to disregard how European nations can't agree on anything and how the rules that are already in place are broken with no repercussions.

That's nice. It won't help you once your banks go bust though.

Jordan Murphy
Jordan Murphy

US thank you for your help in Europe.

Can you give me a link? What exactly is the law, all I can find is "some people are upset about the new laws" on news sites.

A bit tacky.

no real voice on it
What about all your MEPs? And doesn't Spain have someone in the EC? Even Lithuania has a guy there.

Alexander Young
Alexander Young

corrupt and higly bureaucratic corporate shithole
exhibit A
https://www.euractiv.com/section/endocrine-disruptors/news/meps-back-down-from-eu-bisphenol-ban/

Adam Reed
Adam Reed

Germany's trade surplux is artificial and relies solely on the common market. German multinationals would just force Germany to pay anything to save their interests

Jaxson White
Jaxson White

They might. But if they do, they are going to be facing 50+% government of AfD come next election.

Oliver Ward
Oliver Ward

The biggest problem with the EU is it doesn't have any sort of geopolitical force exertion anywhere else in the world except within the confines of Europe.

It's a theoretical union held together by economic means and struggles to establish itself as recognizable. It doesn't help that it let a country go into massive debt despite it masquerading as a economic wank zone.

Nobody gives a shit about it.

It also doesn't help that it has let Russia into its good ol' soviet ways the moment the US started wanking off somewhere else.

I'll wait till an EU army invades a sovereign country, then the fun begins.

Isaac Sanchez
Isaac Sanchez

just force Germany to pay
doesn't work exactly like that
when German banks went bust Merkel bailed them once, when another bail out package was needed she didn't dare bring such a proposal to parliament.
Instead they masqueraded that package as a greek bail out. The French, Dutch, Belgians, Italians were in on it too,

Thomas Cook
Thomas Cook

True, but Russia still presents an asymmetric threat that we currently (both USA and EU) are awful and sluggish at responding to. Cyber warfare is not a meme, especially now that the internet is the main information diet for our citizens.

The Soviet Union was extremely good at information warfare and Putin is ex-KGB, so this makes perfect sense. They're leveraging the one thing they were excellent at (beyond any other country).

You're welcome my litwa friend, just make sure that Western and Central Europeans don't trample over your participation in the EU. Baltics and V4 should band together to make sure your interests are represented

Mason Adams
Mason Adams

implying he doesn't want this purely for the fact that it'll make him money/relevant again

Jack Nguyen
Jack Nguyen

The biggest problem with the EU is it doesn't have any sort of geopolitical force exertion anywhere else in the world except within the confines of Europe.

Nobody gives a shit about it.

THIS

Zachary Ortiz
Zachary Ortiz

He wanks off on attention and the radio shows have given him an appetite for more.

Another 350m bus incoming

Hudson Smith
Hudson Smith

If the EU had a geopolitical force projection to it, the refugee crisis would have been solved much better

Bentley White
Bentley White

It would first need to know what it wants to do.

Robert Mitchell
Robert Mitchell

claims to be a union
unironically a confederacy

Logan Gomez
Logan Gomez

There wouldn't be a refugee crisis if they had developed an EU army the moment Arab spring happened. Perfect excuse, wrong time to hold on to nonsensical ideals.

It would have forced Libya and Egypt to actually reform into capitalist countries without USA's jizz dollars.

Dylan Murphy
Dylan Murphy

Germany is running a superavit thanks to the EU. If the bailout is just to secure that Italy can pay the interests of its debt it would be peanuts compared to the one given 10 years ago.

Carson Allen
Carson Allen

wrong time to hold on to nonsensical ideals
But EU is based on nonsensical ideals.

Asher Torres
Asher Torres

It would have forced Libya
Gaddafi was winning before the French intervened

Joseph Sanders
Joseph Sanders

Eh, "Free men" is a nonsensical, cuckoo ideal and when it came down to exerting will on Europe/Japan/Carribean/Vietnam/Middle East/Soviet, The Americans threw it out like used rubber and still do.

Andrew Green
Andrew Green

You're right, that's the major hurdle. History doesn't show a smooth path to that, either.

The USA obviously started as a union of 13 states, but those states weren't settled or founded on similar ideals or purposes. The two big camps were "Puritan religious settlements" in the north due to Anglican and Catholic persecution in England, and "Cotton and tobacco exploitation zones" in the south based on pure economic interest. Slaves were necessary for the latter, not the former. Eventually the two sides found themselves at war with each other simply due to disagreements over the direction of the country, less than 1 century after fighting off the British.

Europe has the same situation but multiplied by 10 centuries, not 1. Different economies, different interests, different colonies, different languages, different everything. Agreeing on a common military and common foreign policy may be impossible unless you face an extremely dangerous threat

Russia, African/MENA immigration crises, climate change, and even a hostile USA are more of a malaise rather than a true threat. The true threat to the EU that would spark a common military/FP would probably come from within, just like how the American Civil War started.

Jonathan Reed
Jonathan Reed

Bullshit

Lincoln Jones
Lincoln Jones

finally a European who blames Libya on the correct aggressor and not the USA

we can be blamed for providing NATO support, but ultimately it was France who pushed for Libyan intervention.

Andrew Reed
Andrew Reed

Nope. It's no surprise when he had fucking airforce.

Oliver Lewis
Oliver Lewis

Intervention didn't lose him the war. Prove me wrong.

Dylan Robinson
Dylan Robinson

for what reason?

Josiah Sanchez
Josiah Sanchez

No fly zone = attrition = eventual loss

Grayson Adams
Grayson Adams

The difference is far greater than an American only boxing duets.

When Europe comes to blow for shits and giggles within itself, all of their former colonies will get shit upon, South America/Africa/Turkey and the former Soviet Union buddies.

Clusterfuck on epic proportions.

Christopher Perry
Christopher Perry

it's true

Asher Turner
Asher Turner

Imagine a european civil war.
Black chads from southern europe fighting off weak huites.

Cooper Garcia
Cooper Garcia

Sarkozy was an American puppet. You're not fooling anyone.

Xavier Gutierrez
Xavier Gutierrez

Also Hilldog was very eager to prove herself. She thought Libya would be a success story that would win her the election.

William Bailey
William Bailey

Wasn't he the frog that caused the freedom fries shit?

Lincoln Richardson
Lincoln Richardson

That was over the Iraq intervention.

In general Sarkozy was, in policy, very American.

Connor Green
Connor Green

Sarkozy was indeed pro-US, but that doesn't change the fact that he acted earlier on Libya than anyone else. We responded sluggishly after 1-2 weeks. He "dealt" (as in said: Remove Gadaffi!) with the situation immediately as it was presented to the UN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya#Chronology

21 February 2011: Libyan deputy Permanent Representative to the UN Ibrahim Dabbashi called "on the UN to impose a no-fly zone on all Tripoli to cut off all supplies of arms and mercenaries to the regime."[40]
23 February 2011: French President Nicolas Sarkozy pushed for the European Union (EU) to pass sanctions against Gaddafi (freezing Gaddafi family funds abroad) and demand he stop attacks against civilians.

25 February 2011: Sarkozy said Gaddafi "must go."[55]

[...]

1 March 2011: The US Senate unanimously passed non-binding Senate resolution S.RES.85 urging the United Nations Security Council to impose a Libyan no-fly zone and encouraging Gaddafi to step down. The US had naval forces positioned off the coast of Libya, as well as forces already in the region, including the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise.[57]

14 March 2011: In Paris at the Élysée Palace, before the summit with the G8 Minister for Foreign Affairs, Sarkozy, who is also the president of the G8, along with French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé met with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and pressed her to push for intervention in Libya.[62]

Note who convinces whom, who acts first.

No, that was President Chirac. The 'freedom fries' thing was overblown by the media, by the way. It was one government official doing a dumb action in a government cafeteria IIRC. The media blow-back to the event was more influential than the actual action itself, which is sad

Chase Cruz
Chase Cruz

Yes, but without US approval it wouldn't have happened. You wanted it just as much as the French did.

Christian Turner
Christian Turner

I wouldn't be surprised if the Americans advised Sarkozy to act independent. Would probably come out 10 years from now.

Andrew Lewis
Andrew Lewis

It's possible. Looking at declassified CIA documents, it would be unfathomable for anyone to trust the CIA in 2018, for example

Of course NATO actions rely on US approval since we own a lot of the hardware. But the majority of airplanes involved in the Libyan operation were in fact French, which is an area that they are excellent at. France could enforce a no-fly zone by itself without NATO or the USA, but the point of going through NATO is to achieve legitimacy in the action.

It's France's Iraq, really. The USA formed a coalition in Iraq not because it needed 2000 Polish soldiers or British reconnaissance skills, but because it would hypothetically grant legitimacy to the action of invasion. The USA could have conquered Iraq just fine without anyone else (note that I'm not talking about occupation). This is the mentality of the French going through NATO.

The result of Gadhaffi being killed, of course, is that African refugees flood into Europe.

Noah Kelly
Noah Kelly

I've heard it had a personal element to it, Kadaffi had given money to the french prez.

Charles Bailey
Charles Bailey

For you

Blake Cooper
Blake Cooper

God Bless the EU

Caleb Young
Caleb Young

There is nothing to amount to trust. It is a geopolitical move followed with high doses of propaganda. USA has had its hand in France's cookie jar since the World War, Vietnam being a prime example.

The only countries the USA doesn't have a hand in is Russia/China/Australia/Brazil and India.

Connor Myers
Connor Myers

USA has had its hand in France's cookie jar since the World War, Vietnam being a prime example.
Vietnam is the other way around. France couldn't sufficiently defend the colony from communists at Dien Bien Phu. Then France made the mistake of electing a socialist government that recognized the communist Vietnamese.

The 130,000 French/Vietnamese soldiers who died did so for jack shit, all because the French appointed Pierre Mendès France. In many ways, French and American military history is very much alike

Isaac Gonzalez
Isaac Gonzalez

Dien Bien Phu
French were the aggressors, just like the British in the Suez, the opportunity presented itself and Americans took it.

If a situation in Yemen develops further, the French will intervene and the US slide in later.

Owen Price
Owen Price

How were the French the aggressors? Maybe in 1880 when they first colonized Vietnam, but by 1950 they were the regime. It moves from "aggrieve" to "protect."

That being said, while the USA has generally followed a policy of decolonization, the only strict enforcement of that philosophy was the Monroe Doctrine in South America. There are countless other colonies, to this day, that we don't consistently involve ourselves in. Vietnam wasn't so much a matter of American decolonization but rather picking up the pieces of French failure or withdrawal. France failed in Vietnam and we picked up the rest. The USA failed in Iraq and ISIS picked up the rest. It's a common pattern

Samuel Allen
Samuel Allen

fuck anti-EU shills

in varietate concordia!

Carson Collins
Carson Collins

we are just united because of our common dictatorship. Nation States are being glued together like if they are pieces from different puzzles. Any reasonable man would consider the European prison a bad idea.

Brayden Nelson
Brayden Nelson

Glorious pro-EU Poland poster!!!

Dylan Turner
Dylan Turner

The fuck are you on about

go suck putin dick shitty kremlinbot fuck off to your containment zone on /pol/

piece of shit i hope bundeswehra invades and rapes your country, the whole invasion on it would last 2-3 days, weak country, weak people, shithole without future

Adam Adams
Adam Adams

We agree on the notion of good and evil, The French and the Americans are good and communists + terrorists + ISIS are bad. In essence America picked up American failures in Iraq. Or rather republicans took up the failures of the democrats.

I prefer to call the good sides aggressors. Because it would be exactly how I will move forward in case of an evil committed by the evil side.

In all the cases of good vs evil including the World War, America has won out except with the countries I mentioned

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