Homestuck

Is (Tavros) the only character with a good arc?

And no, John and Roxy don't count, because they are mary sues.

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None of the arcs mattered.

what if tavros had control of every animal stand user in jojo

who could he beat

canw 2 = 1 > second half of II >> first half of II
If you were in the last part be ashamed of yourself

i remember laughing a lot at 1 and i havent laughed at all at either of these new ones

Me too, im just listing 2 as equal for the...effort. Revaluating,
canw 1 > 2 > second half of II >> first half of II
The reddit meme is real lmao.

"Arcs!" "Mary Sues!" Jesus, you dumbasses and your tv-tropes-level understanding of what makes a good story or character

I'd possibly say so.

His is the only one which seemingly pays off. We get to see him actually grow more maturely and learn how to ensemble people for a just cause.

Vriska doesn't even fucking grow. Counting in the retcon. Pre-retcon Vriska is basically told off and treated as a worthless person, negating all the things she learned about acting like a complete bitch.

Karkat is seemingly set up as a messiah, but just ends up being a fucking literal cuck.

Meenah... Seems to be still left with an unresolved arc. It's weird because it seems like her relationship with pre-retcon vriska seemed to have yet reached it's conclusion. It feels like Meenah had her own ongoing arc which was promptly interrupted.

I think Aranea is the only other one with a good arc. She starts out as an observant watcher, and then gets inspired by her Alternian self and ends up trying to control everything only to end up failing in the end.

Too bad that got retconned though.

Basically this. I think a lot of us characterfags look into it too much. Hussie puts emphasis mainly on the story, not the characters like Oda and Kishimoto do while trying to balance with their own story.

Dave and Dirk had good ones too.
No matter how much you hate davekat, being pissed over Dave rejecting violence and letting his walls down doesn't change the fact that him going from being an asshole on the outside to that was one development the comic was consistent on, even early on. It would have happened that way even if davejade was canon instead.

I think what I enjoyed about that character arc and other stuff in general is how Hussie expanded on the idea of a broader self.

Regardless of which version of someone did something they still have to answer to it, they were capable of doing it. It was outline with Jade and Jane's just death's under mind control.

You can't really force someone to do something they weren't already okay with doing. Hussie outlined that nicely and gave a great conclusion for Dave's acceptance of himself and denouncing toxic ideals.

Likewise Dirk learned a lot on easing off his friends and not seeing himself as the pinnacle of all that is strong and responsible for safety.

The ending didn't make sense, pls explain.

But Tavros is an awful character.

>We get to see him actually grow
you know all that shit happened off screen right

>tfw Gamzee literally stuffed in a fridge, never to be seen again
Amazing

best thing about the retcon

End of story! No moral.

Homestuck was a massive waste of time for everyone involved

Homestuck ended like it was some creepy PS1 era game that went way the fuck overbudget and had a horribly translated second half with really abrupt and eerie ending.

Sure is amazing when you consider the fact that he's the 2nd most important character in Homestuck.

I'd guess that the first and absolute most important would have to be Vriska since she seemingly ends Lord English.

3rd important is probably Caliborn/Lord english since pretty much most of what happens in Homestuck leads back to him.

...

>just ends up being a fucking literal cuck
How? Karkat finally got his wonderful relationship with Dave the hero and making fujos happy as hell! Leadership? Friends? Fuck it, Blood is about accepting your fate as macguffin and suffering for no reason.

Who doesn't like Karkat's arc???

where's the best place to look for homestuck porn

>oh shit I'm supposed to do something really important or some shit by seeing Echidna with Kanaya
>but not really
>all I do is beat a little leprechaun which may or may not have been a huge accomplishment considering it was Clover

Bofa

what is bofa

bank of america

goddamn it user you're not helping

ive posted before and i don't know how many times i will post it again, karkat showed pretty much the opposite of success by fighting clover. he worked hard for no reason and achieved nothing that he wouldn't have got peacefully.

clover is the least dangerous of all the felt members, he's pretty much a neutral party despite wearing the greens. he is happy to assist anyone with any action regardless of their allegiance as long as they watch him sing and dance and try to solve his riddles. he is overall cheerful, agreeable, likes to help others achieve positive outcomes, and likes to give information away freely. furthermore his luck power protects him from sustaining damage, but not from being mildly inconvenienced. he is able to be coralled into behaving by a light whapping with a rolled up newspaper.

karkat did soft bdsm with a completely willing and enthusiastic partner, that's his character arc

the problem is you thinking clover is the culmination of karkats character arc for some weird ass reason. hes not a fighter, so in the FINAL BATTLE he just had a comedy role. this is a fuckin comedy comic.

i can make a good guess that none of you give a shit but if you somehow do

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMXVVm-BDvr-83ChRnD8Q4YLA7rCAHC7A

voulem 1 has been uploaded to the official music team youtube account

correction: part of voulem 1

> hes not a fighter
That was the WHOLE point of keeping him alive by A6, lke kanaya's goal of reviving troll race that never showed up.

there was no point to keeping him alive. he just didnt die. people dont have points

Yes there was, the whole point of Terezi killing Vriska was because Karkat dying lead them to a doomed timeline. Even scrath said so.

if the trolls die theres no meteor to pick up dave and rose from the green sun and they never make it to the new session to create caliborns universe

It's impossible to keep surprising people when they expect being surprised

It has more to do with being funny and cool than surprising

Being funny is all about subverting expectations

>what sort of story would this be, with our KNIGHT and SEER made to stay cadavers? certainly not one the alpha timeline would allow.

re-read this again. ive capitalised for emphasis. never ever forget that doc scratch is doc scratch when you read his dialogue. assuming that he means karkat and terezi seems logical but thats how he lies.

thats the shittiest cliche excuse from a bad comedian

>oh yeah the matriorb

Bofa Deez Nutz Boye

>watch romcoms
>you are now destined to be a joke character

Dave had an OK arc.

(Vriska) may not be celebrated, but she learned. Unlike her living counterpart, I'd say she has a chance of finding genuine happiness one day.

We didn't see (Tavros) assemble the ghost army on-screen, but we did see him leave (Vriska) and give her a big old fuck you. That's already better closure than 90% of the cast got.

So you're telling me the conclusion to Karkat's character, who by the way has been building since Act 3 and took up more meaningless words than any other character (aka time that could have gone to making an actual good story) comes off screen, in a vague and unseen way, where Karkat will use the leadership powers that he has not once in the story used effectively (the trolls worked together because they had to work together, the Jack plan and Make Her Pay proved that if the trolls wanted to kill each other they could have easily without Karkat ever knowing), to shape the perfect society that he still thinks should be modeled after the hellhole that was Alternia, and who in an alt timeline got his dick wet for Young Thug Fish Hitler?

Let me say that again. Karkat's character arc concludes OFF SCREEN.

Bravo Hussie, how did I ever doubt you?

despite being based on a redditstuck song i actually really liked "Conflict?" surprisingly

coolandnewwebcomic.bandcamp.com/track/conflict

...

karkats words werent meaningless since they were funny and he was likeable

His love for Dave will transcend the quadrants and will be a catalyst for showing him that alternia was fucked up, desu.
Or at least that's what would have happened if Hussie spent more than 2 braincells writing davekat.

This

(Vriska) learned the wrong things. What should have happened was that Vriska teaches (Vriska) to be more assertive, and becomes the leader and the hero, while realizing that you don't have to be a bitch to have people listen to you, rather than implying that the "Ultimate Self" of VASKA is to be a huge bitch, and falling away from that is a sin across paradox space.

Both Daves (pre- and post- retcon) got good ends, or at least they got ends to speak of, and you could argue that post-retcon Dirk got an alright conclusion, though never so much as speaking with Jake before wordlessly hooking up with him despite all the numerous reasons it's been stated that this is a Bad Move for both of them did suck.

rule34.paheal.net

No, they were meaningless. After he stopped mattering, he stopped being interesting. His best moments, be it funniest or most engaging, were the ones that actually contributed to Karkat, be it his rants with Terezi, his first talk with John, that his rants with Jade, his Genesis Frog speech, and even some of his rants in A6I5 with Dave about TereI's wellbeing.

He's interesting when we see how with every talk he changes and grows as a person. When he's playing off the always changing scenery and plot. Which is why when he's put in static nowhereland, re:the meteor, he becomes bland. He becomes a boring meme, sort of like WV.

Also you can "muh nihilism" all you want, but people do change. If Homestuck were just an arbitrary sequence of events put in place for no particular reason, then Hussie could have ended the story after Game Over, or after A6I5, or after Cascade. But he didn't, because up until recently he actually gave a shit about the idea of narrative completion and satisfaction.

But how is he supposed to control them? What's stopping a hypothetical Vriska/Meenah 2 from being an infinitely better leader and just jacking the show and making Alternia 2? Karkat has never shown good leaders qualities, actually his very best moments come when he's playing a secondary role. Hell his class is built around secondary roles.

"Karkat is a gud leader" is just a meme put in place to justify why any second now Karkat should start becoming an interesting character again. It never comes.

>tabors
>not arabia
nice bait

he was excellent in all the intermissions in the first half of act 6. absolutely standout character during that period even though he didnt have any goals or greater purpose. he was just really fuckin funny

Well we can't all account for bad taste.

Anyways you never answered my question. If there never was a "point", then why bother playing out a story to its conclusion if true realism is allowing life to play out a la Simpsons, where people change but don't grow and Status Quo is ultimately supreme, then why bother ending it? If this was a sandbox for Hussie to stretch his wings, then why even bother to put so much effort into making what Hussie thought was a satisfying conclusion? All the time and effort put into organizing Collide, and Act 7, and even making a game to expand the universe, why? He could have been stretching out his wings in a new sandbox with less restrictions and constraints?

>(Vriska) learned the wrong things.
I can't really agree here. Now, this is mostly my interpretation, but if we can trust (Vriska)'s words about herself, she couldn't live without a carefully constructed megabitch antihero facade around her, the existence of which she wouldn't even acknowledge. To reinforce it, she acted in ways that caused much harm to people around her, and in the end she felt unhappy and unfulfilled.

During her time with Meenah, (Vriska) basically dropped that entire facade and was left with nothing else. No direction, no way of knowing she was worth anything, so she ended up turning to Meenah for approval. It was a mistake, but it doesn't invalidate what she's doing. She -needs- that time alone on the sidelines in order to rebuild herself. Retcon Vriska pretends she fights for the greater good, but feeding her ego is her only real motivation. (Vriska) needs to find a real reason to care about her friends and the world around her, other than it validating her bitch facade.

(OK, this could have been written better. I hope I'm making sense.)

well the story is about beating the game. everything else is ultimately hussie having fun and improvising on the way. he was committed to completing the story by ending the game, but clearly not that committed to any of the rest of the threads

I thought the story was supposed to be creation myth. Y'know, like every religion has.

Hussie repeatedly called the story a creation myth and a comic about kids being friends and growing up. There's more to it than just Jumanji 2: Jumanji Harder.

beating the game is the fucking creation myth

See, I get that, but I wish that we had seen her progress beyond that, rather than having her flail around aimlessly.

But he was.

That's what I hate about this line of reasoning. In order to absolve Hussie of responsibility, it claims that Hussie never really had any idea in the first place. Is makes Hussie out as a far worse writer than he is.

Hussie isn't a planning sort, sure, but does, or at least did, understand the concept of narrative satisfaction. He did care about character development, and plot line resolution, that's why we remember moments like Cascade so fondly. I cast extreme doubt at the idea that the man who made Descend work and Cascade work never had any idea of what he was doing. Even if he came up with these threads on the spot, he still weaved them in and out to make a wonderfully complex storyline. He made emotional peaks, he made characters change and shape, not for the sake of realism but to create progression. Terezi killing Vriska, Karkat pacifying Gamzee, the creation of the Green Sun, all plot threads tied together over the course of months and years, plot points introduced at random but ultimately tied together by the grand Dungeon Master, Andrew Hussie. That's why Homestuck worked, that's what made it click.

And just because he gave up on that for one reason or another in the conclusion doesn't mean he never did care.

>a comic about kids being friends and growing up.
Good thing we got to see a single conversation with all the kids

So does literally everyone, considering the Vriska we got to focus endlessly on instead was barely even a character and more a plot device casually draped in the skin of the original Vriska. What always made the (Vriska) Vriska situation so fucking terrible in my mind was the idea that an actual character who had gone through changes, both developed and regressed in response to their environment in the form of (Vriska) is put down by a shallow retconned plot device who has the world bend over backwards to accommodate that terrible personality the original died trying to sustain.

It's like spitting in the face the character we actually gave some consideration to and being told we should enjoy it because the new one got away with everything because reasons.

There's so many other things wrong with the whole situation, but the other major one in my eyes is that retcon Vriska never even had to exist. The original Vriska could have just done the Juju related things in the dream bubbles and interacted with the main cast when they drifted through the bubbles if Hussie was so fucking desperate to include his pet in the direct plot shenanigans. This could have easily provided a clean division between the main plot in the form of dealing with Bec Noir and developing the end game threat in the form of Lord English through the dream bubbles and/or Alphas.

Reminder that character arcs don't exist

but dude subversions lmao

... Says Dave Strider, the character with the most rigid, obvious, longest, and most drawn out character arc in the story bar none.

>irony?
>in my homestuck?

No, I get that, it's just that morons try to use that to excuse why other characters went absolutely nowhere.

Homestuck ruined irony so hard.

>DAVE: i am not gay bro
>is gay
>DAVE: i don't really fucking hate niggers
>hates niggers

>it's a creation myth
>the video game which creates universes fades into the background halfway into the comic to make room for teenage drama
>it's a story about internet friendship
>the internet friends all drift apart and fail to care when they finally meet up in real life
>it's about growing up
>the immense majority of the cast ignores or magically bypasses their problems, therefore stagnating and learning absolutely nothing; some characters forget what they have learned; a couple of them even end up worse than they were at the beginning

>it's a story about some 37 year old dude making up some bullshit and then ending it

don't forget the fujobait pairing and him getting his money back to finance Hiveswap again

This

Now that the dust has settled

who was the worst character introduced in acts 1-4

I want to suck Vriska's 8ig futa 8ulge.

Vriska sucks so bad she has a pussy instead of a dick

How much would John enjoy the new Ghostbusters movie?

andrews self insert

hed love it

Vriska

Hard to say, was his thing liking all bad films or just those that pass as so bad it's good in a slock kinda manner. From what I've heard the new Ghostbusters is just bad, as opposed to funny bad.

>pass as so bad it's good in
Mostly for the actors than the movie, considering his fav was mcchanneuy
Newbusters was an unfuny comedy, a poor action movie, and lacking any sense of suspense that the original had, it was a failure in every conceivable way, do not give that movie your sheckels

John would either throw another autism tantrum or consider it a ghostbusters masterpiece.

>THIS SUCKS

Quality contribution there buddy.

>good arc
His shining moment was played as a joke and vriska was only a little annoyed by it, meenah literally stepped on him moments later, and vriska was laughing and acting like his pal a few more moments later

After everything she did to him, it all came down to one moment of her saying "Wow, ok Tavros, you did something right for once" and that's it

jane would love it. in the post-scratch world it would have been released in 1984, and the original film would get released in 2016

Living Vriska seemed pretty genuinely happy about being right about everything, directing everybody efficiently, and having her big moment unleashing the juju against the big bad

(Vriska) was downright depressed

>bad taste

Your whole argument boils down to not liking Karkat so this entire discussion is completely pointless.

Not always. Comedy is incredibly hard to nail down.

I 8M A GOOD CH8RCTER!!!!!!!!
I SWEAR!!!!!!!!
ST8P 8ULLYING ME

*shoves*

*PULLS DOWN YOUR PANTS*
WEENIE

How would homestuck be different if it was more of a comedy like problem sleuth? Would removing all the over-serious garbage at the end be worth getting rid of all the serious "o shit" moments in the earlier acts?

>yfw you realise all the 'serious' stuff was just andrew taking irony to a level no one imagined before

What the fuck am I reading

> includes many many examples of where Karkat shines
> y-you just don't like Karkat11!1!

How to fix Karkat:

Vriska is his split-personality and everyone tolerates it

They just want the old Karkat back