Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

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No one, like real life.

Fry

Fry was being sentimental and stupid.

Clearly the aliens. They are not like you and me, which means they must be evil.

The worms have the right to want to exist and they need a host, Fry has the right not to want to be infested by parasites.

Bit overall I'd say that Fry was in the wrong because he crippled himself for sentimental reasons.

>Muh grey morality

Fuck you. Real life has its own fair share of wanton villains and sociopaths.

Calm down, this isnt pocahontas

Leela

seems to me it's the exact same thing as it was with Nibbler fucking with Fry's past
If he had just ASKED him, he would have been awesome with it, whether it's going to the future or having your body superenhanced by intelligent little workers (maybe he'd leave out that theyre worms)
the policy of going behind his back or hiding in gas station egg salad sandwiches.. backfired basically.

Fry. The aliens were making him the best he could be, they weren't changing the core part of who he was. Self-improvement is not a bad thing.

Fry wasn't morally wrong, but he was stupid.

Everybody should have gotten infected by the worms.

>Self-improvement is not a bad thing.
But it wasn't 'self' improvement.

It would be if he allowed them to do as they did. They needed a home and food, he needed the improvements to his body that they provided.

except most things in the real world are still gray, often even with sociopaths involved.

There's a difference between self-improvement and self-improvement. Gosh.

>Disney Ratcliffe is a greedy, fat, racist one-dimensional villain
>Real life Ratcliffe was just the leader of a group of starving pilgrims to which the Indians promised food and then betrayed and killed in a incredibly gruesome way

Being made to conform to some else's idea of what's "better" is not self-improvement

They work only making him healthier stronger and smarter. That's definitely better.

True. But a direct upgrade to intelligence and physical fitness most definitely is.

Yes, but he didn't do it himself, so it's not really a matter of "self" improvement. He didn't choose to become smarter and stronger, he was just made to be, with no real undertaking on his part to do so. I think morally speaking he was right to reject the worms since he didn't earn anything that they gave him.

Leela, for only liking Fry after he was the perfect human.

>worms improve your life immensely
>all you have to do is give them a place to stay and deal with the occasional itchy butthole
>"I HAVE TO GET RID OF THESE WORMS BECAUSE STATUS QU- UHHH I MEAN BECAUSE LOVE INTEREST!"
Fry fucked up.
He could've become a millionaire playing the holophone, but he squandered it over a mid-tier waifu.

Nope they changed his personality. Whereas before, he would laugh at that lamp falling, with the worms, he wouldn't do that anymore. They changed his sense of humor.

>tfw no worms turning you into Gumbercules

This, especially for sabotaging the attempt to get rid of them.

>Yes, but he didn't do it himself, so it's not really a matter of "self" improvement
So? Why is that important? Most of the changes you undertake in life aren't a matter of your personal decision making. If an accidental brain injury somehow turned a sociopath into a nice guy would you go, "not good enough he didn't change on his own." That's retarded. As retarded as Fry is without the worms.

He was just better able to express himself and articulate his thoughts better than before.

>He was just better able to express himself and articulate his thoughts better than before.

This. Fry was still Fry, the worms were just flying wingman.

>parasitic entities host inside your body
>they live and prosper while they increase your intelligence, physical abilities, body strength and else
>get rid of them because muh feels

I don't think they had any direct effect on his personality. The lamp example is just a side product of humor naturally changing with new intelligence and understanding. If the worms could affect personality, they would make it so Fry wouldn't want them removed.

I agree they were well intentioned but good intentions doesn't make it okay to override someone's personal choices.
For example if the government shut down Sup Forums and banned all forms of shit posting we'd all be happier, healthier and more productive people but we'd all still be pretty pissed off about it

>Most of the changes you undertake in life aren't a matter of your personal decision making
I would argue that a great deal of the changes you make in your life are the result of personal decision making, regardless of whether you actively puzzled them and made an overt, conscious choice. You still made a decision, and it's a decision that you carry.
>If an accidental brain injury somehow turned a sociopath into a nice guy would you go, "not good enough he didn't change on his own."
The act of deciding something for one's self carries weight to it, it has value as the result of free will. If someone is forced to be a certain way, then they're not really a thinking organism, they're just a kind of automaton. They did not choose their actions, and they do not choose who they are. If someone is brainwashed into being nice, polite, and friendly, then they've been robbed of their free will and as such their actions no longer belong to them. Fry wasn't himself, he had no part in what the worms did to him, as such, those improvements were not his, they were simply being done to him. Leela didn't love Fry, she loved the worms. Had he chosen to change himself, it would have been a completely different story. But he didn't.

I remember watching that episode right when it first aired and wanting those little parasites more than anything.

Fuck I STILL want those parasites. Symbiotic mutualism FTW.

>I love what you've become.

This is all Leela's fault desu.

I can't say that Fry was in the wrong here. If the only reason my life got better was because I ate a sandwich, I'd feel like shit about myself too. That's not even cheating to get ahead, that's dumb luck.

>You still made a decision, and it's a decision that you carry.
Like how Fry mad the decision to eat a gas station egg sandwich?

>The act of deciding something for one's self carries weight to it, it has value as the result of free will.
>free will
>being real
Wew.

> Leela didn't love Fry, she loved the worms
No, she loved Fry. A Fry that wasn't an annoying dumbass.

The worms weren't doing anything like what you describe.

The door's that-a-way, Sup Forums.

I think this whole episode was a jab at those numbnuts who ingest a Tapeworm to help them lose weight.

I mean, some people will do anything to be fit, but jesus christ. Did you really think having worms in your body was a good idea?

sociopaths are those who can't control their inner urges

psychopaths are those who understand their urges would see them landed in jail and act accordingly, either avoiding acting on those urges (the more common type) or acting them out in elaborate ways

contrary to popular belief, sociopaths are not raving lunatics who rampage through the streets, nor are psychopaths (or sociopaths) of above-average intelligence as a general rule (they tend to be of general intelligence except in areas where the skills they lack come into play)

the thing that separates a psychopath from a sociopath is a bad day; the thing that separates you the ordinary average person from a (violent) psychopath is a string of bad decisions and poorly understood concepts

to act violently does not make one a sociopath (but neither does a brain scan) any more than acting against your personal interests makes someone else a "wanton villain"

sociopathic behavior is more like, for example, bringing your personal beliefs about who is responsible for the state of the world/politics/whatever into every conversation without any real reason, simply because you cannot comprehend that it is not relevant and that you are wrong (and doing so in a way which ignored reasonable rebuttals, sought to shock and offend, etc) whereas a psychopath in the same situation would seek to insinuate that their own bugbears were to blame, not because of a genuine belief that they are in all instances blameworthy, but out of a desire to incriminate them

as ever the fine line between one and the other is easily crossed, but they're a far cry from people who just want to hurt you one time (who might be villains or might simply not understand that they'll hurt you), and it's worth learning the difference

psychopath, sociopath, and even villain are not terms you want to throw around lightly

> Did you really think having worms in your body was a good idea?
If they're purely beneficial, yes.

>grey

According to who? Them?

According to observations by medical professionals. Or the professor.

>sociopaths are those who can't control their inner urges
psychopaths are those who understand their urges would see them landed in jail and act accordingly
Wait, what, I thought it was the other way around?

not really Sup Forums.

disney's pocahontas was hilariously inaccurate.
>In December 1609, Ratcliffe and 14 fellow colonists were invited to a gathering with the a tribe of Powhatan Indians. The Powhatans promised the starving colonists would be given corn, but it was a trap. The colonists were ambushed. Ratcliffe suffered a particular gruesome fate: Ratcliffe was tied to a stake in front of a fire. Women removed the skin from his face with mussel shells and tossed the pieces into the flame as he watched. Finally, he was burned at the stake.


that's not even getting into detail about how much of a scumbag john smith was.

Alright, say it was just you, from this day forth you are banned from any and all interaction with Sup Forums and similar sites. You will be better off by all objective measures but you have no choice in the matter. How do you feel about that?

It was a symbiotic relationship. Should we destroy all the digestive bacteria we have?

If we didn't need them? Yeah.

Me too, could it be TV lied to me?

Your analogy doesn't make any sense. The worms weren't limiting his actions in any way. In fact they were facilitating actions that he wanted to take anyway and do it better. He wanted to protect Leela but couldn't cause he was weak. He wanted to play the holophone but couldn't because he was stupid.
Its more like if I was given free access to wifi anywhere and allowed to browse Sup Forums as I like. Did I ask for it? No. Is it an improvement? Hell yeah.

sociopaths lack empathy and cannot see other people as equals, and therefore have no problems with doing horrible things.

psychopaths lack true emotions, but still understand that they exist. many psychopaths move on to be successful in jobs that require no hangups or guilt, like law or politics.

And not only healthier and stronger, but also basically immune to injury

Source? I've heard similar things happening the Jesuits who had a good relationship with local tribes until a group broke away from the main tribe

I really liked how Nibbler always looked out for Fry afterwards though. Hit a sentimental spot in my black heart.

The only good episode of Comedy Central Futurama was the one where Nibbler let Fry see his mom one last time. It is so dusty in my room goddamn. ;_;

...

Not that user, but it was relatively common knowledge John Smith was a shithead. That story about Pocahantus saving his life? He was caught 20 years later saying he was saved in Turkey by a local princess. No idea about Ratcliffe, however.

But yeah. Not the most historical movie out there.

Yeah, there's a reason they weren't viewed as a respectable peoples.

And it wasn't just because they were different.

There were tribes that were upright and civilized, but a lot of them were outright vile cultures that were as far from the noble, nature-harmonic savage as a marshmellow peep is from a pissed off rooster.

The silly thing is that Fry kicked out the worms, but he was fine with taking the Devil's hands. Same concept, different execution.

well i mean id rather have satans hands as my own than have worms in my asshole

the idea that fry really is a talented musician/composer but just has shitty hands is kind of ludicrous in and of itself

but it's a cartoon and the episode was funny so who cares

And then people have the gall to try and imply that they were all kind-hearted, noble people who lived with each other in peace when there is solid evidence that western tribes warred each other to extinction.

Different concept, same execution

He chose the hands. He didn't chose the worms. But both made Leela like him for something that wasn't actually him.

They were also prolific lumberjacks. Basically wiped out trees in North America in some places until the massive plague die-off bought them time to regrow.

>Different concept, same execution
Um no. Both the hands and the worms improved things he was inherently deficient at. Same concept.

>He didn't chose the worms
Actually he did after he found out what they were doing but changed his mind later.

That's the execution. But one thing he chose, and the other was thrust on him. Concept.

Adopting is not the same as choosing.

both lack empathy it's just a sociopath understands the concept of right and wrong where a psychopath doesn't.

Both understand the concept of right and wrong. They're not retarded.

You don't know what concept means.

They're both terms for antisocial personality disorder you fucking tards.

Neither do you, apparently.

Oh yeah, there's at least one mass grave in... wanna say Minnesota, that predates European Colonialism by a good margin, where an entire tribe was slaughtered down to the women and infant children.

Even during the westward expansion, they were driven off and the treaties broken because they would raid the homes of settlers and torture everyone they could get their hands on to death.

Precolonial Americas were basically Africa. Hell, most of South America still is.

>actual history is Sup Forums
What?

They're used interchangeably sometimes but just as often psychologists have made a distinction between the two.

>"Listen, this is going to be one hell of a bowel movement. Afterwards he'll be lucky if he has any bones left."
I legitimately laughed so hard at that line that I hurt my stomach. I don't know why, probably the visual image of Fry farting his skeleton through his ass. I'm so juvenile sometimes.

This. "I love what you've become" was such a horrible thing to say.

It's mostly just that he had everything already in his head, his hands lacked the dexterity to play well

I can sort of relate, my hands (especially my left) are generally pretty shitty. I'm definitely not a genius or even good composer

Didn't DMC abandon those terms in favour of Anti-Social Personality Disorder?

Just so were clear.
Concept; meaning a general abstract idea
Execution; how that idea is enacted practically.
So the concept we have linking both the worms and the devils hands is "improvement of Fry's deficiency". An abstract idea. And the execution of that of course being the worms and the devils hands.
Just so we're all clear here.

Neither. Fry was fine with what they were doing until he got that self-esteem blow.

If you have to ask, you've obviously never been in love.

Sup Forums is always right user

psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

>DMC
? Do you mean the dsm? And if so then the DSM has dropped a whole lot of shit out of political reasons so be careful about those distinctions.

Sure, but that shit's constantly under revision and being revised. A lot of psychologists, including Robert Hare, who's the biggest name in the study of ASPD, make a distinction between sociopath and psychopath and are calling for the DMC to reclarify.

I don't totally remember the distinction but I think it had to do with a sociopath being born that way and a psychopath undergoing trauma, so a sociopath might become a CEO because he's a relatively normal guy who doesn't give a shit about others, where a psychopath will be a criminal or serial killer. It's like they both have the same issue but arrive at it in different ways, and behave in different ways.

But it wasn't earned improvement, and Fry knew it. It was a cheat, and Fry is too honest to accept being cheated into someone Leela loves. It's why he starts practicing the holophoner at the end.

Like he says, he wants Leela to love him for him, not for the worms or what the worms can do for him.

Is being in love mean engaging in self-sabotage to narcissistically subject object of my desire to test she couldn't pass by not being a person worth of her love?

>No, she loved Fry. A Fry that wasn't an annoying dumbass.

Then she didn't love Fry.

Just so we're all clear here, you're being overly vague. The concept is first, Fry making a deal with the devil for his hands, and then Fry having a parasite.

I mean, if you're going to be that abstract, then the concept is just that Fry wants to fuck Leela and fails

go back to tumblr retard

Yeah, because a fucking magazine full of armchair pop-psychology is obviously the best place to get your information.

It always has been.

For people who cry about not wanting to be affected by any entity be it financial or ideological and strong independent neckbeards who need no help you guys are really eager to let yourself be molded into something (and someone) else by parasitic worms.

Fry was right.

>A Fry that wasn't an annoying dumbass.

That's the problem. Much of Fry's character is being a dumbass.

>vague
Using dictionary definitions is vague now?

>Fry making a deal with the devil for his hands, and then Fry having a parasite.
Neither of these things are abstract. You don't know what that word means either do you?

>Using dictionary definitions is vague now
I'm talking about your summary of the episodes retard

The dictionary definition of a concept is different from what a writer would call the concept of their narrative. Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

What is wrong with being made smarter, stronger and healthier?

How does it make sense to expect a woman to love an inferior version of you instead?

What difference does it make if Fry wasn't that person anymore? Might as well be upset that she didn't love him the way he was as a twelve year old (which is probably about the same). The only reason he should have had to change back is if he didn't personally like his new self but he only did it all for Leela.

>I'm talking about your summary of the episodes retard
I'm not talking about the episodes. I'm talking about the worms and the hands specifically.