Why is Dark Knight Joker the best Joker?

Discuss.

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because chaotic neutral>chaotic evil
its logical, fleshed out and had the best goddamn magic trick I've ever seen

because its not joker, joker doesnt plan like this joker did. he doesnt make grand philosophical statements like this joker did. people liked it because they dont read comics and it has good costume design.

>Muh source material

Like The Joker never changed in the 60 plus years he's been in the comic book medium.

>TDK Joker
>good

how was he bad?

why the fuck does Joker get a free pass and Superman/Batman in BvS don't? This characterization of Joker completely goes against the whole agent of chaos aspect, he literally has keikaku out the ass. Ledger does give an amazing performance though.

>constantly spouts idiotic pseudo-philosophical bullshit that makes him sound like an edgy teenager and makes it impossible to take him seriously as a villain
>fails to be menacing despite trying very hard to be
>idiotic plans that only work out because of luck and everyone else being an idiot

Because he actually actually pretty goddamn funny while being completely out of his goddamn mind, or at least made you believe he was. He was honestly the best part of that movie.

Because it was well done.

You're assuming I didn't like BVS.

He make pencil disappeared.
Amazing magic

gee wizz, that sure sounds like a bunch of baseless opinions!

Ledger was the best movie iteration of Joker to date, get over it

>Idiotic plans that only work out because of luck and everyone else being an idiot.

Like almost all comics?

oh sorry friendo, okay. well then, it was a fine progression of the character and his keikaku was a good parallel to bat's keikaku, ultimately forcing him to go to unethical keikaku lengths for the greater good, giving Joker at least some level of victory.

>M-MUH BASELESS OPINION IS BETTER THAN YOURS
Go die with your idiot kind, Ledgerfag.

you fuck right off bitch pleb

Planning and chaos aren't antithetical. Varying forms of order always arise out of chaos, order inevitably decays to forms of chaos, etc.

A character making orderly plans to advance his ambitions of showing humanity's chaotic, self-serving nature is more than reasonable.

Too bad outside of an idiot in rubber suit TDK tried very hard to pretend it's a serious criminal thriller despite being Se7en for people with ADHD, so it's much less forgivable.

Go back to Sup Forums and stay in your containment board.

How about you first instead of shitting up this board with godawful capeshit flick threads?

I can only remember few scenes with any humour in it, the hospital and the explosion being the best.

I'm not the OP here, you are you dirty Sup Forumsmemer, get loss

>any opinion I disagree with is a meme
Ah, nice to see TDKfags are as retarded and obnoxious as they were in 2008. At least some things stay consistent.

Have any Batman writers discussed Ledger's Joker?

because you're still 12 years old and have never read a comic book.

This t b h

Except I've read comics. Old friend of mine had long boxes of them he kept under his bed that were full of comics. The boxes they have in the comic store, the long ones.

>ROMERO
>Inspired how every iteration of the Joker would be played from then on. Mannerisms, the laugh- everything. This is the proto-Joker.

>NICHOLSON
>Re-interpreted Romero's Joker, but as a darker and more menacing character. Generally comes off as Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson, although his dryness balances his manic side pretty well.

>LEDGER
>Influenced an entire generation to believe that the Joker is a brooding nihilist philosopher who doesn't have to follow his stepdad's rules because FUCK YOU JERRY YOURE NOT MY REAL DAD.

>LETO
>A modern ganster inspired by Azzarello's Joker. Comes off more unhinged than any other Joker, and embraces the insanity of the character. Plus for the first time, we get to see a Joker that's actually a major player in Gotham's crime scene. For a street-level Batman movie, this is the perfect Joker.

Please, enlighten me on the philosophical things Ledger's Joker said.

>Leto

Please fuck off with this. Leto was cringey as fuck. He had the mannerisms of someone modeling for a Hot Topic commercial.

>DUDE CRINGE LMAO
>DUDE HOT TOPIC LMAO

wow, it's like I'm talking to a walking, breathing meme.

Take the contrarian stick out of your ass.

>I have nothing worthwhile to say
>better call him contrarian
Oh, fuck off you cunt.

>If I call everyone a hipster that means I'm right!

no.

>Dude I reference a meme while criticizing someone for using words that aren't even memes.

Wow, it's like I'm talking to a mongoloid.

How many buzzwords can you shove into one post holy shit

>Can't call it a meme. Fuck, I'll call it a buzzword.

The clothes and style he wore literally got their own Hot Topic clothing line. Kill yourself, please.

People being bitter over Leto being shit seems to have brought us back to 2008 when even saying that Ledger's Joker wasn't that good was more blasphemous than calling Jesus a faggot.

>LETO
>this is the perfect Joker.

>how dare somebody suck Based Ledger's dick!!!

I'm the only person I know who found Dark Knight Joker thoroughly boring.

Might have been because he only did one memorable joke in the movie, and I had it spoiled for me by people who hyped it up like crazy before I saw the movie. By the time I finally saw the pencil trick, my only reaction was "that was it?"

You weren't the only one.
Nolan's dialogue on bat-movies is awful. It's so inhuman and robotic it feels less like people talking and more like amateur writer reciting his bad prose, Ledger's Joker is not even slightly menacing despite the movie trying to make him some for of nature and everything else keeps dragging and dragging on.

So many empty words. There's no way you're older than 18.

Post an example and point out your criticisms.

>wahh wahh you disagree with me, must be underage LEDGER 4EVER XD
What an empty post. There's no way you're older than 18.

Because he was the only tolerable part of that pos movie

Every single line in the damn movie, you obnoxious butthurt Ledgerfag?

This. I have the same problem with Daredevil- it's so overwrought that it just comes off as laughable.

he's literally the worst joker
Great character, better than most jokers, but worst joker.

You continue to explain nothing. Embarrassing.

Triggered much? Is is too hard for you to show me one scene that you take issue with and explain why it's wrong?

>Great character
He was barely a character.

You continue shitposting like a moron. Embarrassing.

honestly he is, its just Joker is one of those characters that doesnt work too well outside of a comic and put into the real world, like Superman or Spiderman

Like, if the character was played perfectly they'd come across as cringy, awkward and none of their actions make sense, mostly because in comics you put your own interpretation onto each character (the way they act, talk, move)

I dunno, this probably doesnt make much sense because i'm just rambling here, but yeah.

I can smell the butthurt from here. Maybe you should go back to greentexting in order to argue your point without actually saying anything.

What should I do? Spoonfeed you by quoting your shit flick? You can go to fucking wikiquote for that.

>I disagree with you
>you're not saying anything XDD
Kill yourself. There's no butthurt, just being tired of Ledgerfag morons like you.

>honestly he is, its just Joker is one of those characters that doesnt work too well outside of a comic and put into the real world, like Superman or Spiderman
>Like, if the character was played perfectly they'd come across as cringy, awkward and none of their actions make sense, mostly because in comics you put your own interpretation onto each character (the way they act, talk, move)
>I dunno, this probably doesnt make much sense because i'm just rambling here, but yeah.

No, that makes a lot of sense. Very interesting prospective but I still think Heath's Joker is the most interesting. Maybe because the novelty, it remains fresh and original and really fits into the nolan-batman mythos.

There it is. Like clockwork.

Compelling argument. I'm sure everyone who enjoyed his joker are rethinking their stance right now.

>I cannot prove your points wrong, better shitpost like a complete moron and call the opposing party underage
Just kill yourself already.

Yeah, i've always felt Ledgers joker has been really great, like with most of the characters from those movies, they're a shit Joker/Bane/Ra's but they're really interesting and fun to watch characters in their own movies

Why bother? If you idiots think TDK has great dialogue, it's far too late to help you.
I'd recommend watching actual moving and reading actual literature.

Now you're just being boring, you could at least post some images or something.

You could just fuck off and do something productive with your life instead of being triggered by my opinion which you still offered no counterpoints to and shitposting, yet here we are.

Just think how easily they could have fucked it up. I'm still floored by the truck-flip scene to this very day.

B:TAS Joker is best joker. Fite me.

You're not doing yourself any favors with all this deflection.

Also please don't tell me you're about to compare high art or classic literature with a cape film. Even for an autist on Sup Forums, that's a bit much.

Why are you talking about me so much? Talk about Ledger's performance, since you seem to hold such a strong opinion on it.

You're not doing yourself any favors by not seeing how stiff Nolan's dialogue is and how generic Ledger's Joker is, but here we are.
>Also please don't tell me you're about to compare high art or classic literature with a cape film. Even for an autist on Sup Forums, that's a bit much.
Of course it's expected of an idiot like you to put words in others mouths, but fuck off.

I'd gladly not talk about you or ever interact with you, but you just keep bugging me

Again you continue to deride without explanation, but you obviously care enough to reply. Also you're the one bringing up "watching actual moving and reading actual literature" yet I doubt you'll expand on that point.

It was different from the comics, but in a good way.

Ledger's Joker had visible mannerisms, tics, and a style of speaking that made him seem real, almost. He was genuinely terrifying in some scenes. His humor was more deadpan, but it was still genuinely funny.

Leto's Joker well first had the problem of barely appearing, but it also seemed like Leto was putting on an act the entire movie, and it takes you out of it. I liked that they brought the gangster part of Joker back but I think what they tried with him sort of fell flat on its face. It wasn't entirely Leto's fault, however. If he dials down the METHOD ACTING in the Bat solo film I think he could do just as well as Ledger.

Ledger was just good, Leto needs to stop trying to be Ledger 2.0 (not in how the Joker acts but in the whole, 'getting into the feel of the character' bullshit) and just needs to have better on screen presence. All Ledger's scenes had you on the edge of your seat, Leto just seemed kind of bland.

youtube.com/watch?v=Etst4t3ES8Y
RoTJ Joker is the best by the virtue of being the only actually disturbing without being too edgy non-comic Joker.
Also
Eye/I on the other hand > pencil trick.

(I know it's the same character as BTAS, but you catch the drift)

I suppose it doesn't take much for you then. Just explain your argument without using meaningless buzzwords and juvenile greentext.

What explanation do you want, fuckface? Do I need to drag your autistic ass into the streets where you can see how real people talk and that Nolan's lifeless emotionless dialogue sounds like a crappy writer thinking he's writing serious literature? Do I need to show you that Ledger's Joker is nothing more beyond your average "intelligent but" Hannibal Lecter rip-off you have in every police procedural?

Except I already did. You just keep ignoring and dismissing everything while contributing nothing of value.

*intelligent but evil

>lifeless
>emotionless

Not true at all. If you actually believe that then show me some examples. You're an actual idiot.

Also would you care to explain why authors like Paul Dini and Grant Morrison loved it, but you hated it? What grand insight into the Joker do you have that they don't? Not to mention 99% of the people that saw it. It provided a level of cultural relevance homogeneous enjoyment that the character will NEVER reach again.

You're just a contrarian who is too idiotic to stress his points in a specific manner or provide any actual evidence to his claims.

youtube.com/watch?v=MsLYoqjgl_Y
youtube.com/watch?v=lY7xhnJtlkE
youtube.com/watch?v=jAj20UOc3DE
youtube.com/watch?v=K4GAQtGtd_0
So natural. Definitely doesn't feel forced and stiff in the slightest.
Now, satisfied? Now get off my dick already, you annoying cunt.
>You're an actual idiot.
That's rich coming from an unbelievable moron like you.
>Also would you care to explain why authors like Paul Dini and Grant Morrison loved it
Creator of The Wire thinks Buffy is better than The Wire. Shocking, but creators are not always right.
>Not to mention 99% of the people that saw it. It provided a level of cultural relevance homogeneous enjoyment that the character will NEVER reach again.
Oh look, argumentum ad populum. Seems like you idiots are incapable of arguing beyond PEOPLE LIKED IT SO IT'S GOOD
>contrarian
Just get cancer you shitty memeing faggot.

Again, zero actual explanation. You're just trolling at this point. If you aren't, then you're too stupid to have an opinion worth listening to in the first place.

>zero actual explanation
Not my fault you're either ridiculously retarded or just plain obtuse. I keep shoving this in your face and you still refuse to acknowledge that it's there.
>WAHH U DISAGREE WITH ME U TROLLING
>then you're too stupid to have an opinion worth listening to in the first place.
Pot kettle black. Just fuck off.

Again, the criticisms you levied are that he's lifeless and emotionless, yet in the very first clip you posted he incredibly emotive and virile. There is no conclusion to draw other than you being completely incapable making valid criticisms.

While I agree with you, "best movie iteration of Joker" doesn't mean much. I think Jerome Valeska from the Gotham TV show was a better Joker, and he isn't even really the Joker yet.

>I talk the entire thread about dialogues
>you bring up acting of a scene with wooden absolutely dialogue like a low-IQ failed abortion idiot you are
You retarded motherfucker, what do I have to do to make you shut up? Every post you make makes me want to puke with how stupid and self-righteous is it.

*absolutely wooden dialogue
Goddamn, your stupidity pisses me off so much I can't even type straight anymore.

Not that dude, you can dislike Ledger's Joker for many reasons, but you are delusional if you claim being lifeless and wooden is a reason. He is anything but.

>visible mannerisms, tics, and a style of speaking that made him seem real, almost
They made him look like a goddamn cartoon character.
>He was genuinely terrifying in some scenes
Thanks again for proving that Sup Forums has very low standards when it comes to "terrifying".

I never said anything about Ledger's acting. It's the only salvageable part of the character, but it doesn't salvage character itself being shit.
I'm talking about the dialogue. Nolan is not good with it. Ironically Joker sounds slightly more like a human being than the rest of the cast and he's supposed to be insane.

>They made him look like a goddamn cartoon character.
What the fuck, are you fucking serious? The Joker is supposed to look like a fucking cartoon character. And besides his suit being purple, nothing screamed out of place.
What is terrifying to you then? Him being terrifying didn't come from a crazy laugh or shooting people, it was the insane tension and unpredictability he brought to the movie.

It sounded as real as a comic book movie's dialogue can sound. Outside of the occasional psuedo intellectual line some characters spout, what makes the dialogue seem wooden to you? It's incredibly real at times, like in the 'I won't bury you' scene.

>The joker doesn't plan like this one did

What is death of the family
What is the real origin story of the red hood in the new 52

He's not.

Your posts have been very eye-opening about the kind of person you are. Not one complaint you have had is valid at all. You are literally and objectively wrong. You call that "wooden?" What the fuck? Anyone who bothered to watch the scene can tell you otherwise. The dialogue was poignant, relevant, entertaining and were enunciated on a scale befitting a such an outlandish, larger-than-life character.

Seek help.

...

> The Joker is supposed to look like a fucking cartoon character.
So what is it then? "Almost real" or "cartoon character"?
>What is terrifying to you then?
Anton Chigurh. That's what an actually terrifying villain is like.
>insane tension
Funny, but I didn't feel much of it.
>unpredictability
There wasn't much unpredictability too.

>IMDB ARE PLEBS XDD
>IMDB AGREE WITH ME BASED IMDB
Fuck off, Sup Forums.
>objectively
>The dialogue was poignant
Okay, thanks for outing yourself as a troll. You had a good run, tricked me too.

If I wanted to trick you it wouldn't be hard. You're just asspained that Ledger's performance was incredibly popular and lauded by hundreds of people more knowledgeable and well-read/well-watched than you, so you try and take a stance against it, even though you can't make any actual arguments. You're pathetic, and are most likely a Sup Forums cross-boarder.

>So what is it then? "Almost real" or "cartoon character"?
He's supposed to look like a painted up freak, and he does. The smudged makeup and the more realistic clothes despite being an odd color makes it a bit more realistic, but at the end of the day he's SUPPOSED to look out of place, and he does.
>Anton Chigurh. That's what an actually terrifying villain is like.
So calm and collected instead of manic? I like Anton as well, but what makes his attitude more terrifying than the Joker's? In fact, the tension of who they're going to kill and not is central to both characters.
>Funny, but I didn't feel much of it.
I'm sure you didn't, because you had a grip with it from the beginning. It's a subjective feeling anyways, I can't make you feel it.
>There wasn't much unpredictability too.
The bank scene in the opening minutes was unpredictable you fucking dingus. This response is bait-tier.

Don't blind yourself with all that projection.
You can go now. I'm tired of your annoying shitposting.

Wow. You guys sure get upset about this.

It's because their 'anonymous.'

>but what makes his attitude more terrifying than the Joker's
The fact that he has lots of menacing presence Joker doesn't and that personality-wise he's not an outlandish capeshit character but someone who actually feels like a realistic sociopath?
He definitely sounds like Richard Kuklinski.
>It's a subjective feeling
Probably. I just found Joker's scenes boring.
>The bank scene in the opening minutes was unpredictable
Okay, I give you that. Everything else was predictable though.