Finally was able to read a copy of this issue and I must say, I was impressed.
It was much worse than I thought it'd be.
Do you agree with my assessment that Franz Kafka would be proud that what is usually a political phenomenon to oppress unwanteds was so efficiently used against an unwanted by other unwanteds? In a story, so the characters in that story could be marginalized in order to make movies a certain way?
How many layers of The Crucible can they dump on Beast? Is that the question Disney and Marvel were asking themselves when they hired Michael Bendis?
I wonder, how big a scapegoat can they make a character to justify their business dealings? How deep can they shove a knife in to their consumer base's back to turn them in to an "unavoidable" externality, making way for a different consumer base? This issue was about -blame- and making a sham of Xavier's dream. The short exchange between Cyclops and Magneto was the tell-tale. Magneto placates Cyclops, so Cyclops can placate the audience. It was never about anything Cyclops did, they just wanted the whole issue to condescend to one of the most intelligent characters in the Marvel universe, to talk down to any Beast fans.
Dude, where's the fake lawyer demanding constant extortion payments? Where's the unmarked, anonymous vacant building where the trial shall be indefinitely held? Where's the vague, undefined continuous threats? What's the undisclosed "secret" charge of crime ... actually, check that - it's not meant to ever be revealed in that story...
William Davis
"we care about you" "we want to help you"
those are threats to any respect he has and any strong relationships he had ever built with friends or students. there's no need for a threat when your character has been assassinated and reputation destroyed.
no need for a "secret" charge of crime when it's replaced by the accusations of people who don't fully understand the processes or reasoning behind actions taken. imagine being accused of things by people who you know, when they aren't even lawyers or experts on what happened. yes, it's not meant to be revealed because to reveal what happened would mean that Beast asked for help from the FF and Avengers and never recieved it. it was never discussed because Beast acted unilaterally when the precedent to act unilaterally had already been made by Cyclops. No such "trial" was afforded to Cyclops when Cyclops acted unilaterally
Ryan Phillips
the other teammates literally are too stupid to understand that both beast and cyclops did crazy shit.
to condescend to beast because he acted in RESPONSE to something else is fucking hypocrisy.
Cyclops commits acts Beast commits acts in response to it
group blames Beast?
Ryder Brown
Oh, you wanna bring Cyke into this? Fine.
What's more of a threat than Professor X himself saying; "You need help and I WILL help you." "When you wake, hopefully you won't have any..." ( ... at which point it was clearly *right* to freak the fuck out. )
And, of course, I defy you to explain how creating world peace, ending starvation and hunger is a greater crime than wrecking the space/time continuum to achieve a petty vendetta?
Sebastian Long
I'm so sick of everyone saying "Scott Summers" like it's their coping mechanism to pretend they haven't known him for decades. That's rare in real life but every character does it now!
Liam Rivera
>petty vendetta >ending starvation and hunger
u wot mate?
Logan Morris
It's a cool name. Stan Lee has that style
Ian Anderson
Beast is saying it like an angry parent.
Jaxson Moore
makes sense. he's the only adult in the room.
Liam Perry
I've not read the issue. What happened? The X-Men are holding an intervention because Beast decided to side with the Inhumans to help them deal with the cloud?
Christian Williams
That's not always the case.
Eli Miller
uncanny x-men issue 600
i have no idea what cell phone crap you're talking about
Wyatt Brooks
Cyclops when he gained the Phoenix Force tried to keep the other four hosts calm and in control while also convincing them to use their new gained powers to better the world not only for mutants, but everyone else.
Beast decided to go back in time using Dr. Doom's time-travel machine and bring past versions of the O5 X-Men to the present and convince them to face Cyclops in hopes that Cyclops would be shamed by the past versions of himself and original friends, hopefully enough that he'd change his ways and turn himself in. This gamble of course created rips in the time-stream.
Matthew Hernandez
The Terregenesis cloud that's killing/sterilizing muties?
Tyler Richardson
So what happened in it?
Sebastian Harris
He has gradually turned into a full-on mad scientist over the years and it's getting dangerous.
Those O5 X-teens shouldn't have been kidnapped from history. Hank really screwed the pooch on that one. And amazingly that wasn't even the final straw.
Alexander Reed
all the mutants associated with x-men are called together so they can condescend to beast about something that ultimately saved his life and a situation concerning the younger versions of the O5 when everyone had already agreed to let them stay
there is then a moment towards the end where cyclops calls all the mutants except beast for peace and magneto is like "wtf are you doing, you crazy" and they smile for the cameras and shit before going back to beast being alone.
peace is achieved, but the issue is about ostracizing beast. the emphasis was shaming a character who was high moral standards.
oh and they talk about iceman being in the closet and shit.
everything in it takes a back seat to the marvel universe simply taking a shit on beast for doing something that happens in the marvel universe all the fucking time.
even the watcher in "Endangered Species" was all like "i despise you mccoy" when the watcher has interfered with events (and thus defeating the purpose of his character by participating instead of watching) and is in no position to judge anyone
Isaiah Adams
yeah you still haven't explained that shit about cyclops solving world hunger. sounds pretty made up. ;)
Jack Hughes
Angel says to the new O5 "you shouldn't be here"
Magneto said "we should send these children back"
cyclops' response?
"it doesn't matter"
the rest of the x-men's response? let them stay
but blame beast?
Jackson Kelly
He used the Phoenix Force to magically feed everyone, create free energy source, create houses for poor and homeless people, get rid of nuclear weapons, stop conflicts throughout the world and so on.
Oliver Scott
You're right, it DOES sound made up, like even "comical"...
Christopher Kelly
Him using a Doom Time Platform was a retcon so they could ignore Marvel's time travel rules that creates a giant hole in the logic of the story, as it implies that either Doom or the FF thought it the best solution or that Beast some how managed to break into the Baxter Building or Castle von Doom and hijack a time machine without anyone doing anything about it.
Jason Thomas
Cyclops was DEAD ALL ALONG
Logan Gutierrez
It's not some retcon, the time travel device co-created by Richards and Doom was always a threat to causality, and past FantasticFour stories have been about that danger. Of course, EVEN THE GUY NAMED DOCTOR DOOM managed to use that shit responsibly.
Jonathan Bailey
i'm unimpressed.
humans already have the ability to have renewable energy and food if they changed their resource management.
has the economy of earth 616 changed and led to a paradise?
if not, i call bullshit. not your fault and thanks for posting that pic.
Christian Ward
younger Scott sees younger Jean kiss younger Hank
Logan Gray
This is sad. Who does your mind tell you is responsible for personally grabbing those five kids out of history and dropping them in the middle of present-day drama? And HOW exactly was that going to make the situation any better? AT ALL?
Brayden King
>has the economy of earth 616 changed and led to a paradise?
No, because Obama told the Avengers to stop Cyclops because he was making the world's leaders uncomfortable.
Gabriel Smith
you're the one not thinking.
if someone commits an act, that's one thing.
for a group of others to come along and sanction it means they are also responsible.
Ayden Campbell
Beast's idea was that younger Scott would be horrified to see what future Scott was doing and that would convince him to never become the man Cyclops was right then.
Kevin Powell
are you fucking serious?
so cyclops did not in fact save the world?
****
so what you're telling me is that world leaders are uncomfortable with cyclops but when mutants get upset with beast it's a big deal?
Bentley Hall
Hark! And so... upon that day the fabled Scott the Younger was cast into an abyss of WOE, as such that mayhaps hath been a witch's enchantments! Foresooth, praytell, doth Henry the Elder bear thine blame forthwith, forsooth, four score?
Isaac Cooper
and lo
Jordan Fisher
Oh, i remember the issue now.
Bunch of X-Men told Beast that he was going mad-scientist and you had:
Colossus making up with Magik and being cool with Kitty marrying Starlord. O5 Ice Man and O5 Jean trying to convince that Old Ice Man was gay too. X-23 hooking up with O5 Angel for good and O5 Jean kissing O5 Beast kissing in the clouds while O5 Cyclops watching the two chicks that he liked kissing his friends. Old Cyclops calling all the mutants to Washington DC and showing to the would that the mutants wouldn't chimp out because they're in one place all together and thus they had nothing to fear.
Connor Bennett
the DC thing is totally overshadowed by the narrative of shaming beast.
that's not what you call a happy ending, the focus of the story was not even on cyclops' accomplishments, nor did magneto say anything appropriate to the situation, they just shit on beast.
could the unifying of mutants in peace have been written any more haphazardly?
James Murphy
The world's leaders told the Avengers to attack Cyclops and his friends all because they dared to make the world a better place for everyone. In the end Cyclops was even arrested without trial because the US government knew he wouldn't be convicted by any court or even the public.
Beast was just shamed and told to stop being an asshole by his friends, which is fair because he threatened to destroy the time-space continuum for nothing but petty revenge.
So you really can't compare the two situations.
Dylan Hill
They arrested Cyclops for murdering Charles Xavier in front of over a dozen witnesses.
He bounced before the trial date because a mutie prisoner got killed in front of him or something.
Matthew Martinez
No it doesn't you wingbat, the jury in your murder trial is not responsible for that homicide you committed. Get it? Can you follow that basic logic?
Nathan Ortiz
Yeah, the issue was about Beast being shamed and even the X-Men were going all "THIS CHANGES NOTHING! CYCLOPS STILL MUST BE STOPPED! HE WON'T GET AWAY WITH THIS PEACE TALK BULLSHIT!" when Old Cyclops was doing his little speech in Washington DC.
So what you can take from this is that the X-Men are cunts.
Brody Miller
Caged Demonwolf, what the fuck are you doing shitposting about a Marvel comic?
Mason Johnson
>They arrested Cyclops for murdering Charles Xavier in front of over a dozen witnesses.
Something that happened as an accident because Professor X TRIED TO SHUT HIS MIND WHILE HE WAS POSSESSED BY THE ENTIRETY OF THE PHOENIX FORCE!
No court would find him guilty.
Nicholas Reed
BUT... if THAT was really Hank's plan then that means that he had decided to rewrite the timeline, the whole history of the world, on his own. That right there is some full-on evil supervillain shit. Kang does shit like that. The Red Skull has tried to do that. It's bad stuff.
Ryder Thompson
Plus there's that whole thing with how he was never going to get a trial. 'Merica!
Isaiah Collins
>petty revenge
there's that phrase again. perish the thought that when cyclops and emma kept secrets it destroyed their bonds of trust. has nothing to do with personal feelings.
>threatened to destroy the time space continuum
which happens all the time and everyone was fine with the O5 staying. that's called hypocrisy
the situations can be compared because it came to pass that the planet rejected help from mutants even when they proved they could make the world a better place. even when cyclops was right, it didn't matter to human leadership. this happened when cable had an island and S.H.I.E.L.D. had the FF get the silver surfer to take out cable.
this happened when cyclops had the x-men go to an island off the coast of california
>arrested without trial >without trial
so no trial.
the humans have made it abundantly clear that mutants aren't wanted and yet the writers continue to have cyclops do these things with no benefits to the mutants. what's going on with them now? is their situation better?
Aiden Parker
if the jury knowingly says you're innocent when they have the evidence in front of them, then yes, they are responsible.
Jayden Lee
Lookith man, some Secret Wars 3 multiverse shit happed to Demonwolf and next thine knowist, Demonwolf is hatin' on some Marvel...
Adrian Smith
He brought the O5 students from the past and told them that Cyclops had become a terrorist worst than Magneto and that he was going to bring about the mutant genocide. He then told them that they should band together and stop him.
His intention was to shame Old Cyclops. He thought that if Old Cyclops witnessed his past self and the past versions of his friends all angry and disappointed at him, that this sight would take the fight out of him and shame him that he'd finally turn himself in.
That was his plan. It wasn't so much about changing the past, because he knew that Professor X would wipe the minds of the O5 once they came back to the past. It was about shaming Old Cyclops.
That's actually one of the reasons why O5 Jean decided to remain in the present. She was so shocked by all the fucked up shit that happened in her life - becoming the Hellfire's sex-slave, becoming the Dark Phoenix, dying several times, being cheated by Cyclops with a clone of herself, having future kids with Cyclops, kissing Wolverine, dying again by Wolverine's claws - that she decided to not go back because she knew that Professor X would wipe her mind once she went back to the past thus forcing her to relive all that shit.
Colton Evans
he was dying at the time. he was genuinely concerned that after he died cyclops would make things worse.
younger Beast helped him solve his problem and older Beast's life was actually saved
that is not full on evil supervillain shit, he called the avengers and ff for help
Tyler Thomas
>she knew that Professor X would wipe her mind
but that's an unknowable fact. xavier would have seen it and you can't predict what xavier would do
Tyler Richardson
Old Beast and the O5 students of the pas theorized that was a possibility that could happen. One, in fact, that Old Beast was counting on.
He was betting on Old Cyclops being shamed enough to turn himself in, thus giving him what he wanted, and that once he send back the O5 students to the past that the Professor X would wipe their minds to secure the future, thus not altering the time-space continuum.
That was Old Beast plans, but then O5 Jean freaked out refusing to go back and later the O5 students found out there was something stopping them from going to the past for some odd reason that i think hasn't been explained yet. So know they have this whole mess going on.
Henry Myers
Dude, trust *IS* a personal feeling.
The time-space continuum is indeed threatened all the time... BY SUPERVILLAINS... like Hank!
And I just have to point out: Scott is imprisoned without trial, Beast has this "trial" without even a threat of imprisonment... or apparently any consequences at all, because he never renounced his crazy shit and simply walked away back to his lab!
Thomas Smith
you forgot the part about cyclops saying that it didn't matter and the other x-men almost totally agreeing to let the O5 stay
Asher Roberts
trust is not personal.
you cannot objectively trust someone who keeps life or death secrets from you. period. that's not feelings, that's game theory.
Christian Bailey
Yeah, once O5 Jean decided to not go back the other X-Men decided to support her.
As for Old Cyclops saying it didn't matter, i think he was just trying to make Old Beast's life harder as a strike back. He later convinced the O5 students to side with him and smiled like a little school-girl when Storm was pissed about it.
Zachary Turner
>The time-space continuum is indeed threatened all the time... BY SUPERVILLAINS... like Hank!
tell us your opinions of Cable and Bishop, fucktard
David Gutierrez
Cable is a good boy, you leave him out of this!
Michael White
Yeah, but it's a really-really big secret. If Hank trusted Scott, he would respect Scott's privacy.
Carson Taylor
tell that to user --->>
Asher Hall
but hank knows that if scott trusted hank, scott would have told him.
neither of them trust each other. first scott didn't choose to trust hank, and hank's logical, reasonable, rational response was to NOT trust scott in response.
let me guess, you have multiple significant others who have cheated on you.
Hudson Flores
Yes, Nate is a good boy who just comes from a troubled home environment.
And FYI: neither of those two CHOSE to time-travel.
... the first time.
Cooper Turner
hmm... doesn't Uncanny X-Force REVOLVE around time travel?
GOSH.
Hunter Carter
Hey man, people have been hurt before by secrets getting revealed. You never know how someone's going to react: some people surprise you... some people scar you for life...
Dominic Perry
how could they?
could you imagine being on the jury of that trial? What practicing law must be like in the marvel universe. Super hero law has to be its own crazy field.
"Your honor this is madness my client, Who will not use his real name and from here out will go by his moniker Black Talon, is not culpable for the murder of those three children." "Does he deny the charges?" "No, those children were murdered by his clawed hand but he was deceived into doing it by Mysterio. Its clearly stated in the ruling of Logan v. The Dominion of Canada that culpability for a crime committed under mind control goes to the mind controller not the controllee. My Client Should not be on trial here!" "Objection, your Honor. Mysterio's power is a result of hallucinogenic gasses and has been ruled a schedule I drug under the controlled substances Act. Your client wasn't under mind control. HE WAS HIGH!
James Hernandez
the longer you keep a secret, the worse it will be when another finds out
if someone else finds out a secret that you should have just told them and been upfront about, it will be worse.
if you can't understand that, it is a sign that you have some maturing to do
>that pic >that pic where rightclops says beast was right
>HOLY FUCKING SHIT BEAST WAS RIGHT AND THE ONLY WAY HE WAS WRONG IS IF CYCLOPS IS WRONG
>THAT PIC
Kevin Butler
I'm not saying that Cable was right there, but the situation was different.
Cable had learned that the world had been burned by the Phoenix Force because the Avengers had killed Hope Summers, his adoptive daughter, and so he took the weapons the Avengers used in their war against the X-Men and used Dr. Doom's time-travel machine to travel back to the past and stop the Avengers before they could hurt his adoptive daughter and doom the world.
Old Beast just wanted to shame and guilt-trip Old Cyclops one last time before he died because he was feeling sick.
Landon Smith
hey guess what.
don't keep secrets.
Evan Cox
*from trusted allies*
keeping secrets from trusted allies means you don't actually trust them
Jack Perez
Beast is a little bitch, though.
He was mad about Cyclops creating a black-ops that worked in mutants' interest called the X-Force. He told that Cyclops had crossed a line with that and that he wouldn't be around anymore if that's how he'd take things.
Then he went to Wolverine's school and was much happier. But what happened when he found out that Wolverine had created another X-Force, which did the same thing, once Cyclops had disbanded the original team after his heart-to-heart talk with Beast? He did nothing. He said nothing. He fucking turned a blind eye and remained by Wolverine's side.
Fuck Beast.
Beast's a little bitch that always envied Cyclops. He was wanted to be Professor X's prized student, to be the one leading the X-Men, to be the one fucking Jean Grey. That's why he's always mad about anything that Cyclops might do.
John Miller
Also, didn't he show up to Kurt's funeral ONLY to tell Scott "this is your fault"?, even tho Kurt died pretty much sacrificing himself to save someone else's life?
Camden Anderson
Okay, (A): Scott's dead and the world hates his guts, Emma's gone nuts, and the secret's still safe so far, so I guess they've already hit the worst that can happen and it has nothing to do with secret keeping. And (B): the X-Men who have found out after prolonged deception adjusted well. Same can't be said for the villains... The personal nature and impact of the secret obviously justifies the secrecy to those who now know.
Luke Anderson
Yup. Old Beast has been blaming Old Cyclops for shit for years now.
You can see that even in regards to O5 Beast. He was loving the future because for the first time in his life the entire team, including Old Beast and the future X-Men, was depending on him for answer and looking up to him for guidance. Then O5 Jean left O5 Cyclops and he finally made his move, being super happy about finally getting the girl.
Jaxson James
Remember when Beast was mad with Cyclops because Cyclops didn't come right away to rescue him from Norman Osborn? All because when it came to decide between rescuing Beast and saving the rest of the X-Men, Cyclops decided to help the other X-Men. So Beast was mad about that.
You know, despite Cyclops once deciding to give himself up so he could be tortured and killed several times, all for the good of the team.
Wyatt Wilson
Man, Hank is kind of a bitch isn't he? What's he up to this days? I stopped keeping up with X-men after Bendis hoped on board and all I know is that he's now sucking inhuman dick.
Jace Brooks
Are you sure that's the problem? Seems kinda petty.
Owen Wood
Nigga, Beast is petty as fuck.
The thing about Beast is that fitting in was never enough for him, he always wanted to stand out.
That's why he felt unappreciated in the X-Men, since he always played second fiddle to Cyclops. So he left the X-Men and joined the Avengers, where he thought he'd feel more welcomed and appreciated, but then even that wasn't good enough. That's also why he's constantly messing with his body.
Oliver Barnes
Hanging with Inhumans to try to fix the Terregenisis problem
Thomas Taylor
>BTFO
Luis Scott
IN HANK'S DEFENSE... He grew up standing out, his mutant abilities didn't kick in at puberty like with other mutants, so his raw superior physique, his super agility, his mental abilities, and his ... "large hands" were all there from birth. The guy never knew underperforming until he met other superheroes, and then he became the guy readers pointed at and said; "Why's he a superhero? He doesn't have any real powers!" I grew up a smart kid, let me tell you, when you find your academic high-level and finally meet people more intelligent than you, it is a painfully humbling adjustment. So of course he's desperately trying to make a grand gesture to justify himself as "homo-superior".
Elijah Reyes
>BTFO
Camden Young
>Cyclops doesn't trust Beast and keep secrets
bruh, Cyclops fucked up and made an enemy out of Beast. Uncanny 600 shows younger jean smoochin on younger hank.
scott's a cuck
Joseph Murphy
emma's worse than mystique.
Michael James
Cyclops made an enemy out of Beast just because he was a good leader and decided to place others above him and Beast. So since Beast wasn't Cyclops' priority anymore he threw a tantrum.
Cooper Scott
you're bargaining.
the worst happened specifically because secrets were kept.
but look on the bright side. Beast may have died if it weren't for the fact that Cyclops wasn't being a fucking chad just to impress snow bitch
Austin Ross
Is Bitch Monkey considered a brilliant scientist? I haven't seen him do anything particularly brilliant in the last decades and his most notable accomplishment is worsening his blue hairy balls problem every time he tried to fix it.
Joshua Richardson
what's that? you're BTFOed because hank was right about secrets sowing distrust and scott even knew it, admitted it to snow bitch?
Wyatt Phillips
Beast has nothing to do demand after the sacrifice Cyclops made in Breakworld.
Wyatt Hill
How is that in any way relevant to Hank Mcoy being a good scientist or not?
Aiden Long
what secrets are you guys even arguing about? Scott was pretty open the plan was train Hope to get the Phoenix and use it without destroying planets.
if anyone keeping secrets is causing problems it's the inhumans and their terrigen shit
Gabriel Nguyen
Hank's super genius is one of his oldest traits, that was the gimmick the super jock was a giant nerd.
Camden Roberts
I think they're talking about Scott keeping his death squad secret from Bitch Monkey, but like they mentioned earlier when Wolverine did the same and Beast found out he didn't seem to think nothing of it, or at least not to the level he did with Scott.
Justin Carter
I know he's clamored as one what I mean is that aside from people bringing it up he hasn't seem to have done anything particularly super genious-y this past few decades, I don't even remember if he was part of the Super Science Squad that Scott formed in Utopia.
Camden Davis
This is truthy. Emma there went utterly crazy decades ago. It's a whole sad thing, multiple mental breakdowns. She's just a shell of her former self. You could hardly recognize her compared to her first appearance.
Meanwhile, Mystique is oddly static in her nature. She's always been like that.
Liam Harris
>didn't seem to think nothing of it
have you even read UXF? serious question.
Jason Ward
i mean he still went to go teach with wolverine instead of staying on Utopia
William Nguyen
Wolverine also had the guts to come clean about death squads though.
think about it. Cyclops was such a bitch that he couldn't even bring himself to tell Beast or have a conversation with him. Scott's the petty one to make himself look so weak that the only alternative is that he has much more to hide.