Okay, okay, but how can I make this about Universal Basic Income?

>Okay, okay, but how can I make this about Universal Basic Income?

Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15651931/
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=FE80B381FB0B2B962F3F3ABDB0AE180E?doi=10.1.1.222.6003&rep=rep1&type=pdf
humanbiologicaldiversity.com/articles/Weiss, Volkmar. "The Population Cycle Drives Human History _ from a Eugenic Phase into a Dysgenic Phase and Eventual Collapse." The Journal of Social, Political and Economic Studies 32 (2007).pdf
twitter.com/AnonBabble

tell you what, I got this machine in the back that will decompress your spine..

All jobs will be gone by 2030. Socialism is the only viable long term economic model.

>pull that shit up jamie

Requesting chimpanzee pasta

being this delusional

Plant

>with these new tractor machines one man will be able to produce food for hundreds of people. We need socialism or everyone will be unemployed.
History has proven you wrong time and time again, my intellectually challenged friend.

Human/intellectual capital will just become even more important as technology continues to improve

Heavy socialism will only attract third world rats who will breed uncontrollably and tank the national IQ, dragging the host nation to a shithole level as the demographics shift.

It is very important that we know this as China is on the verge of genetically engineering smarter babies. This could result in an extreme shift as the West fills itself to the brim with shitskins while China is making blonde haired blue eyed 120+ IQ babies.

>implying history is circular
it's not, it's lineal. just because something never happened before doesn't mean it can't happen

>job in a field
>job in a factory
>job in an office
>can't find a steady job
next logical step is no job

>job in the matrix

There.

More like demand will simply shift to different goods and services, creating different jobs to compliment new technologies, just as it always has.

so you agree we need a universal basic foodtube and bodypod?
matrix is socialism

>slavery, genocide, and organ harvesting is socialism
I agree

A dim plant

Yeah but the capability required for those new jobs just keeps getting higher and higher. No matter how you look at it, the average person is exponentially more likely to be unemployed with each passing year. Where would the blue collars go in the age of automation? The average undergrad in the age of outsourcing?

>can't find a steady job
Then you're an idiot. There are millions of highly profitable, open opportunities in tech right now, and that's where the next generation of jobs are going to be. Likely producing and trading online goods and services from home.

You're akin to a farmer being unable to find a factory job and then joining the bolsheviks because you're an imbecile who believes every change in the market signifies the end of capitalism.

they'll become hard labor or die

Universal Basic Income = mass institutionalization

it's literally just semantic huckstering

the matrix gave it's inhabitants the freedom to leave and the fun of being meekly chased when they could've automatically culled dissidents.
Matrix gets a bad rap but you're only there if you want to be and you're always welcome to come back when your MGTOW group turns out not as fun as you were hoping.

So? We're going to be using Crispr to make eugenics babies in like five years anyway. Even if we went the UBI route, the lack of selection pressure for higher cognitive function is eventually going to compound to the point where the average American isn't going to be capable of maintaining the complex resource management system that ensures their continued existence. Eugenics is the future one way or the other, because if we don't jump on it now, China will.

You call him an idiot, completely ignorant of the big picture you paint.
What if he is an idiot? They're the majority and growing if demographic statistics are to be believed. Yet in your ideal future idiot and genius would stand side by side in the tech industry, the idiot, who couldn't even pass Calc I, doing some conveniently vague "tech job" and the genius already working on a way to automate it with more complex AI, as is the fate with all sufficiently simple tasks. Now when would the limit be reached? When the only jobs not automated are too complex for the average man? Whether you like it or not, that's a problem that has to be faced.

Let me spell it out for you so even you can understand.
Designer babies - minority that has to grow for at least 15 years. Majority - give up because they know they'll be replaced and their jobs automated.
And that's even disregarding your blind hype for crispr.

>Designer babies
yeah you can fuck off with your boogeyman

>and the genius already working on a way to automate it with more complex AI
you agreed with him that im an idiot but you're too dumb to realize being a genius will be meaningless when General AI self-learns into intelligence beyond human genius in every field we point it at.
when you make the machine that problem solves, problem solving is no longer a human endeavor.
all that's left is the arts. are we really going to reach full employment on the arts alone?

>its a joe says if I could go back in time I would always shaved my head episode
k joe, k

we dont yet know how the brain works well enough to even design for higher cognitive function.
and why bother designing babies with crispr when we can design viruses and cells to cure and heal us so we can become immortals?

What we should do is take on as many third worlders as we can to make the situation easier.

See Altering the economy to accommodate lower IQ workers isn't going to pan out in the long run either way. I could maybe understand a system whereby the currently existing C-grade workers are given livable income to suppress chimpouts until they die, but a transition has to be made pretty soon where that level of performance is no longer deemed acceptable. China isn't going to play nice with its population and a world where they're churning out millions of genius-level IQ children every year while we're spending money on welfare queens is going to end with them as the center of world power and us at their feet.

>you need to know how the brain works to take iodine during pregnancy to raise your baby's IQ by a full standard deviation

>Majority - give up because they know they'll be replaced and their jobs automated
You're braindead if you believe the majority of people have no work potential in 2017. Also, this technology has been public information for years, where are all the people supposedly giving up and surrendering to designer babies and automation? They're working because they obviously still need money, dipshit.

Just stop posting.

Which is my point. You'll end up with majority of the population made obsolete by these new superhumans, so what will you do with them? Ship them off into space? Kill them? Well, at least the new ubermensch generation will probably solve that problem pretty quickly. Maybe we'd get hooked up in virtual reality machines that would also act as our living spaces, while the new generation would be the one actually living.

Pretty sad how we were born 30-50 years too soon.

>using "IQ"
the great thing about that is i dont even need to have your source to know it's bullshit. IQ is not a scientific measurement. there's no single valid measurement for something as broad as intelligence.

Yes we do. Scientists can easily identify traits regarding the size and shape of a brain that infuence intelligence. And the process doesn't involve building a brain from scratch, it's literally identifying genetic traits associated with higher intelligence and artificially selecting for them in a fertilized egg. Do a little bit of research before talking out of your ass.

What "General AI"? We're not even close to reaching that level and all signs point to stagnation. If you're holding your breath for the singularity, you better hope they make bionic lungs in the meantime.

>the size and shape of a brain that infuence intelligence
if only the stupid culling could start now.

Can you read? I wasn't talking about the current year, I was talking about the hypothetical scenario in which "we're going to be using Crispr to make eugenics babies in like five years anyway lol xd".

>stagnation in General AI
uwotm8?

>tfw you realize that most jobs existing today are either useless middle management positions or pointless finance positions designed to cause inflation and leech value out of the economy
>tfw the Jews realized that if you give a man a useless job, not only will he suck your cock in gratitude, his deeply rooted awareness of his own uselessness will cause him to hate everyone privileged enough to be allowed to make money from something with tangible benefits

>you can't quantify something complex and abstract

What is mathematics?

Why he is so shilled here?

>IQ is not a scientific measurement
t. low iq loser

>selection pressure
stopped reading here. natural selection hasn't applied to humans in 10,000 years you fucking idiot.

Is Joe a high IQ individual?

The "great superintelligence AI" will need great hardware to match it, right? The mind doesn't mean anything if the body can't support it. Just look up stagnation in AI and hardware. General AI isn't coming soon.

You're not wrong about it but American's are going to sperg out.

>pointless finance positions

lol you do realize making money is not pointless right?

fucking goyum

>Is Joe a high IQ individual?
joe has high meme IQ but low real IQ

But user, current selection pressure works against intelligence. Rich, successful people are too busy being rich and successful to have children.

How hard is it to understand? No matter how perfect humans and human brain, we will never outclass automation. AI's will outclass all of human accomplishment in a week.

something you flunked.

but general AI already exists and is advancing rapidly. go check a look at deepmind and openAI.

>majority of the population made obsolete by these new superhumans
Where are you getting this?? The majority of the population can make a living for themselves right now, where most jobs require you to be tech literate to some degree. And this new generation isn't going to be displacing any workers until they're at working age anyway. In what fucking world do people stop working because smarter people might replace them in 15+ years? Lmao

Clearly you've decided in your own head, and against all rational conclusions that LE SOCIALISM must be utilized.

Your argument doesn't even make sense. Genetically speaking, most office workers today are descended from the factory workers of the last generation, who are descended from the farmers before them. By your logic, we should have had tons of starving farmers and factory workers in the transition to new tech. That never happened because you live in a fantasy world.

probably the most objectively accurate post ITT

You're missing the point so hard. The new generation won't physically replace the old generation, they would automate their jobs. Even programming is being automated without a future influx of superintelligent humans, you think other jobs won't? You can keep believing that "there will always be jobs" as much as you want, but unless I'm seeing concrete reasoning for that argument I can't buy it.

By the way, unemployment rates are already rising.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15651931/
>Genetic influences on brain morphology and IQ are well studied. A variety of sophisticated brain-mapping approaches relating genetic influences on brain structure and intelligence establishes a regional distribution for this relationship that is consistent with behavioral studies. We highlight those studies that illustrate the complex cortical patterns associated with measures of cognitive ability. A measure of cognitive ability, known as g, has been shown highly heritable across many studies. We argue that these genetic links are partly mediated by brain structure that is likewise under strong genetic control. Other factors, such as the environment, obviously play a role, but the predominant determinant appears to be genetic

>"hurr durr I'm an idiot"
Thanks for posting.

The advances in tech brought about by this next generation aren't going to affect the work environment until the next generation develops them. Do you really need this spelled out for you?

General brain size \ gray matter volume only has 0.33-4 correlation with intelligence, which is considered weak. The prefrontal cortex and hippocampus may play larger roles than the rest of the brain though, but either way there are animals with larger brains than ours that are less intelligent, and women have smaller brains but have the same average IQ.

>2005
so surely this has peer reviewed validation of the findings by now right?

>there's no single valid measurement for something as broad as intelligence.

Yet IQ is a great predictor of future earnings, up there with education and certain personality traits such as extraversion.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=FE80B381FB0B2B962F3F3ABDB0AE180E?doi=10.1.1.222.6003&rep=rep1&type=pdf

So while it may not be perfect and all-encompassing, it is obviously meaningful data if it can be used to create models that are consistent with real world results.

Furthermore I'd like to point out that what IQ tests are attempting to measure is pattern recognition ability. Pattern recognition is the foundation of all knowledge, it is the only known method of drawing good conclusions. Someone who is good at recognizing patterns is generally going to learn and adapt faster than others.

Wrong.
humanbiologicaldiversity.com/articles/Weiss, Volkmar. "The Population Cycle Drives Human History _ from a Eugenic Phase into a Dysgenic Phase and Eventual Collapse." The Journal of Social, Political and Economic Studies 32 (2007).pdf

Fuck no. He was never a bright guy to begin with, and all the drugs probably fried his brain even further.

He's basically just a ventriloquist doll for whoever he has on, just parroting back whatever opinions they throw at him. The only time he won't just agree 100% with whatever the person is talking about is on DMT and kettlebells.

Also, Eddie Bravo did NOTHING wrong.

>can't accurately measure intelligence
>can accurately measure grey matter
>find correlation of genetics and grey matter
and so???

Wow, you must be a genius or something... damn.. what then? There's more than one generation alive at any given time. The older generations would still be affected.

I don't think you understand how finance works. It doesn't create value. What it does is create money in the same sense as a mint. They're reducing the value of money by effectively debasing the currency, and granting themselves an unearned share of money that's circulating in the process.

Before:
>$100 worth of stuff
>$100 of money circulating
>Finance guy has $0

After:
>$100 worth of stuff (in pre-inflationary dollars)
>$110 of money circulating
>Finance guy has $10

All he's done is leech money away from those who actually do the work to make things and add value to the system.

Not a source.

0.4 is a moderate positive correlation by any standard.

True, but that's because we fell for the feminism meme and encourage our best and brightest women to go be "strong independent business womyn" who don't have time for families, rather than housewives.

The pushing of the dual income household really fucked us all over. People originally thought it was a good idea because double the breadwinners = more money for the house, right? Well no, because it also doubled the labor force and effectively drove down all our wages from the surplus of labor. So before it was the case that a single breadwinner could support his wife and children on all his own. And after we had women working too, things are actually worse off now, and it's harder to afford a decent living even with two earners, and nobody has time for kids, and there are also hidden expenses like childcare and preschool and summer camp and all the shit people pay for because they aren't around to raise their kids.

>Yet IQ is a great predictor of future earnings
There's a chicken and egg factor between IQ and socioeconomic status. Just correlating income with IQ doesn't show the whole picture.

>natural selection only occurs in a hunter-gatherer environment

t. brainlet. Go read the 10,000 year explosion. Civilization itself has brought a fuckton of selection pressures.

Look up the twin studies. Both placed at different socioeconomic environments, both end up with around the same IQ in adulthood.

That's still a modest correlation. And you're only looking at pure size/volume without taking other anatomical differences into account. Different races, for example, have differences in type and number of folds in the cortex.

The moment humanity developed medicine is the moment natural selection stopped applying.

>The older generations would still be affected
No shit. Only your definition of "affected" seems to be "the end of the world" as opposed to a slow advancement like every other genenerational change in employment ever.

flat out wrong.

Nice argument.

>disease resistance is the totality of natural selection
Just kys.

Somehow, genetically engineered transhumans alongside the AI singularity doesn't really sound analogous to the beginning of the industrial age to me.

Absolute bullshit excuse. You are a massive retard.

Yes, poor upbringing can have a negative effect, but it does not mean that everyone has the same genetic potential.

All those people in North Korea weren't going to be 7ft tall NBA players if they had a proper diet in their youth - most likely they would only be a few inches taller. There is still a genetic limit in all of us for everything. All you are saying here is that a shitty upbringing can yield subpar results - wow amazing discovery, user. It totally negates all of biology!

Biology is real and it matters. Get over it.

>medicine is only referring to treatment of disease
brainlet

What am I supposed to argue against? Your assertions are flat-out baseless, and I suspect you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what natural selection even is.

This is why we need UBI. Pre-feminism, there were X number of people in the labor pool, and the value of labor was Y. Now, there's 2X people in the labor pool, and the value is Y/2. What we need to do to bring the value of labor back to where it should be is to incentivize people to not work. The way we do that is with a UBI set at a value where enough people drop out of the labor market to bring it back to its historical value (or maybe value labor a bit more), without making the UBI so high that people with genuine potential for success aren't driven to succeed. That number is probably going to be around 0.75-1.5 times poverty level.

Members of Gen X and some younger Boomers who are undereducated in 'tech' will never develop the skills to make a decent living going forward. You can already see it coming. There should be a safety net of some sort for people who are being squeezed out through no real fault of their own. Are we just gonna start mass retiring these people or what?

We're gonna fucking kill them.

I too can easily make an overdramatic hyperbole for the advancement of farm and factory equipment.
>hurr durr somehow massive autonomous robots collecting thousands of pounds of grain per hour doesn't seem analogous to the cotton gin

It's the invisible force of nature "selecting" for certain traits that allow organisms to breed more viable offspring. When you can ignore all of those pressures with be technology, medicine, etc then it no longer applies. Schizophrenia and related hereditary mental illnesses should have been bred out of the gene pool if natural selection still applied to humans. Same with short people, ugly people, etc, but they weren't and they never will be. Natural selection only applies to organisms that are at the mercy of the environment; not the other way around.

The rate of advancement back then was way less rapid. Technology is advancing exponentially while human ability to learn and retain stays the same, with the added benefit of overpopulation. Soon enough the majority of the people living would be left behind without the sufficient time to adapt. It's already happening.

No, UBI would make things infinitely worse. Women are psychologically hardwired to go for breadwinners, just as men are psychologically hardwired to select for fertility among women. This is paradoxically why high-income women actually have a self-imposed harder time dating, because they (for the most part) inherently don't find any man who makes less than them to be desirable (in terms of relationships, not one night stand stuff). So a woman who makes more money actually ends up cutting off more of the dating pool because she'll only desire the top 1% of men who make more than her and also satisfy a bunch of other requirements.

Bringing it back to UBI, you create a society where everyone is giving a basal level of wealth. This pretty much kills any desire for women to seek out men for long term relationships, because none of the men are good earners, and they make their own money from the state handouts anyway. If you want a current example of this, just look at niggers and how they don't bother having any stable family units because welfare takes care of them instead. It'd be more or less similar to that (although less extreme) for the entire rest of the population.

It'd be a fucking terrible move.

Ok, so you do have a fundamentally misunderstanding, because you think the only things that can be selected are obvious things like shortness, ugliness, schizophrenia, etc.

>le redpill evopsych pseudoscience
post discarded

humans reproduce sexually, you still can't ignore finding a gf, more than 50% of men don't reproduce and get culled out of the gene pool

I don't see how this is a bad thing with the invention of anime women making real women defunct.

I'm always kind of curious what the IQ scores of people fellating IQ scores as the one true measurement of the value of human life are. On the one hand, I can't be entirely against your plans for an intelligocracy because it would put me in the top 0.01% of society, but on the other hand it's a terrible idea that's massively unfair, could never be made to work, and wouldn't fix anything even if it could.

>evolution magically stopped at the neck and human behavior is completely arbitrary
post discarded

not an argument.
source for 50% of men in developed countries never having children?

>Women are hardwired to go for Chad!

>Then you're an idiot. There are millions of highly profitable, open opportunities in tech right now

Lol the tech bubble is over, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Society is already unfair. People with ability can manipulate the system, get rich and fulfill the dreams but only because they were born with the intelligence to do so.
Besides, IQ correlates highly with happiness and life satisfaction, so genetic engineering is inherently a good thing.

>This pretty much kills any desire for women to seek out men for long term relationships, because none of the men are good earners, and they make their own money from the state handouts anyway
But what about the men who aren't content making poverty-level wages and go out there and tear up the competition with their competence and drive? Now those will be the men getting all the women, while the dumb frogposting NEETs will just sit in their basements alone.

individual IQ means shit, there are a 100 different ways in which you can be a failure with high IQ

population average IQ means a lot

if china starts churning out genetically engineered people, all of them won't succeed, but it will make a huge difference of how they fare overall compared with other countries