It was good and all of your complaints about Snoke being an underdeveloped nobody are stupid as fuck because palpatine...

it was good and all of your complaints about Snoke being an underdeveloped nobody are stupid as fuck because palpatine was barely explained in the OT and you don't complain about him. discuss

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Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?


That line alone has more characterbuilding than anything in nuWars regarding Snoke

NuWars wants to pretend it's something it's not. The Emperor in the OT was just pure evil. They want to get all deep with the new movies and then unceremoniously kill the main villain off in the 2nd movie.

Can you not read? We are talking about Sheev in the original trilogy where he has no more character developement than Snoke.

I agree but palpatine didn't get killed like a little bitch in the middle of Empire. People would have gotten angry as well after him being presented at the big bad baddie in EP1

Palpatine barely explained????? Are you fucking dense?

>palpatine was barely explained in the OT and you don't complain about him

Because while he didn't get much backstory he was present from start to finish as the main puppeteer of events. The goal of the whole trilogy was stopping Sheev, the goal of this trilogy is ________.. It could have been stopping Snoke but Snoke's been stopped and there's still a film left.

Shit like this gets answered in expanded material you noob

He didn't need to be explained. It's called the "Empire" so it just follows there'd be an Emperor. If there's space wizards similarly it just follows that there'd be evil space wizards. That's all you need to know and it' all there/

With Snoke you now have 8 films as context. To just introduce some random character, have him hold a pivotal role in the narrative, and then anticlimactically toss him aside without any further deliberation is fucking sloppy writing and you know it.

You don't get the differences between the two characters. And never will. Is it because you want a set of movies that represents your generation in a similar fashion as the original trilogy did for past generations? Is it because you envy so much old generations for "their" Star Wars and there's nothing you can do than erase them? So please, go on with your pathetic comparisons full of nothing.

Do you remember a time before the prequels? FUCK

Palpatine was a constant Nigger wtf you talking about

As well as being an actual Sith! And not just some old guy with unexplained power

Do you want it to be just like the others?

I agree, OP. I'm actually loving how all of these defenses are basically just people saying you're wrong because the prequels exist, which is exactly the point.

>As well as being an actual Sith! And not just some old guy with unexplained power
He's not a Sith in the OT. The word "sith" is never even mentioned until the prequels. Palpatine is literally just an old guy with unexplained power who's Vader's boss.

You idiot we need to know who Snoke is because after Sheev died there was no more Sith yet randomly Snoke appears. A guy supposedly from the clone wars

He wasn't even shown in ANH, just mentioned in dialogue. He has like ten minutes of screen time in the whole OT.

The hell are you talking about Palpatine was a presence felt since the beginning, middle, and end.
Every movie slowly hypes him up as an evil monster that even Vader fears. You hear him mentioned, then you see his hologram, and then you finally see him. His minions alone are scared witless by his name and forces Vader to his knees.
Even the return of the jedi you see weak old man and think oh thats not a big deal until he force lightnings the hero into begging for his father.

My point: thanks to Darth Bane Sith only appear in 2 i.e. a master and an apprentice.

Is Snoke part of the Sith? Is he some other dark force user? Makes no sense to not explain this

>wall of text just to say absolutely nothing

See

im so bitter about this masterpiece that im going to create my 9th account on rotten tomaytoes and bash it again

Did you see the OT? Nothing is revealed about Palpatine until ROTJ and even then it extremely little. It isn't until the prequels where we learned all there is to know about Palpatine.

Where the fuck did you get that from what I said? I'm just saying that the Emperor is more than justified as a character in the OT. It makes sense that he'd exist and serves an integral and fully developed role in the plot. The same can't be said for Snoke. He's a half baked idea who's character just exists as filler and has no meaningful conclusion. This isn't that hard to understand.

This is the NINTH movie in the series, asshole. You can't drop villains without an explanation.

Doesn't matter, it's made abundantly clear that he's the one behind everything and that everything the Imperials are doing is because he wishes it.

see

>Empire is evil
>Emperor is mentioned as the one who runs shit

There, it's that simple.

It's almost like what works in one movie doesn't work in another. It's almost like anything will work as long as it's done right. It's almost as if movies are a work of art and not something that can be designed in a boardroom full of suits and focus groups.

Snoke is just as developed as Palpatine was at this point in their respective trilogies. You're allowing your knowledge of the character from the prequels to infect your argument. What did you know about Palpatine after ESB? Hardly anything.

98% of Star Wars fans that continue to watch these movies are idiots that have no clue as to what makes a good movie. We have unironic fans of the prequel trilogy here.

The only problem with the the handling of Snoke in this movie was the lack of an explanation as to why he wasn't a visible player in the OT. That could have been fixed with 2 or 3 lines of dialogue.

- There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that Snoke is not a pre-established character. Movies should not exist to confirm stupid and obvious fan theories. I don't understand why people would pay to watch, hoping that they know exactly what's going to happen.

- There is absolutely nothing wrong with Snoke getting killed in this movie. He fulfilled his role in the story, particularly in Ren's characterization. All he was was one-half of Ren's internal tug-of-war, the other half being pulled by Rey.

>But how did he not feel the lightsaber moving?
The same reason Palpatine thought he can try to torture a man to death in front of his father with no repercussions; Hubris.

>But now there's no main antagonist.

I suppose you think the Emperor was also the main antagonist of the OT as well? Pro-tip, being the highest ranking guy associated with the antagonist faction does not make you "the main antagonist". Leia is not the main protagonist because she is the leader of the Resistance.

I don't know what's a worse movie: TLJ that we got, or TLJ you people wanted.

>Emperor scares vader and men shitless.
>Corrupted one of the jedi knights
>able to massacre an entire knighthood.
>Rules the known Galaxy with an iron fist.
>Thoughts of resistance is a dream
>Any resistance will be met by genocide
Whats the emperor's character? Complete fucking evil
Now you do Snope

No, he isn't. Palpatine was built up in ANH and ESB. Snoke was just dropped on us and killed off in an anti-climatic way.

>Palpatine was built up in ANH and ESB

Any more than Snoke in TFA? How so?

>What did you know about Palpatine after ESB? Hardly anything.
THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT. He's an evil presence that's the head of the Empire. That's all you need to know and the mystique just adds to the intrigue. And sure he's just as developed, the thing is he's played a far larger role in TFA and TLA than the Emperor ever did at that point, except now he's just fucking dead leaving no point for further development, in a context that now at least requires some kind of development.

You can't jump into the 9th film of a series and treat characters the same way when it was just envisioned as a simple heroes journey trilogy. My whole point is that I'm not taking the prequels into account for OT.

>Vader calls him master
>the one whoe teached him in the dark side of the force
>the one who will teach Luke as well if he joins them
>a literla who with wizard powers that didn't get build up over the course of three movies

So after your failed attempts to explain SuperLeia and the hyperspace weapon of mass destruction you try to shift the discussion to Snoke and that Sheev was the same, when every 6 year old can see trough your bullshit.

asperger's

*snoke has played

ANH the resistance wants to stop the Emperors scheme of the Death Star. Leia stolen data plans makes the emperor destroy her homeworld and disband the imperial senate effectively taking all power for himself.
ESB Vader one of the main villains bends his knee to the emperor you understand the emperor his leagues above Vader he also knows everything Skywalker and Vader is doing implying he's omniscient.

It was very childlike

Who’s the manchild now

The Emperor didn't have a whole history of previous content to fit into. His role was evil emperor and that's all the original trilogy required him to be.

Somebody needs a rewatch of ANH and ESB. Even just judging by pure screen time Snoke comes out way ahead of the Emperor after two films. Snoke interacts with multiple characters. He is talked about and mentioned outside of his presence by both resistance characters and First Order characters. He gives orders to his military. He strategizes about countering Luke and the resistance. The emperor is only mentioned in ANH and we see him in one hologram conversation with Vader in ESB. How can you not see the difference in development?

What are you arguing? That the Sith Order was a concept that existed in the OT? Because that's absolutely false, and you're just projecting shit from the prequels (and EU) onto movies made before "Sith" was even a concept.

>defending this shitty movie

Emperor Sheev required less character development because his title was emperor. Pretty fucking self explanatory. He was the emperor and commanded respect and power.

We have a character named “Snoke” and that’s it

The reason Palpatine was good is they developed him even less than they developed Snoke making him more enigmatic. They also had a longer buildup. The issue I had with Snoke is they revealed enough about him for him to not be that much of an unknown but not enough about him for me to actually care about the character.

Beyond that Snoke just sucked compared to Palpatine. Palpatines apprentice? Vader. Snokes apprentice? Ragebaby that got beat up by a girl.

So you agree with the thread starter. Ok. Cool.

...

>First Order is evil
>Snoke is mentioned as the one who runs shit

B-but it's different now!

How was the First order Created?
Who created it?
Snoke? how interesting but wait what makes him the leader why does he have force powers if Palpatine only taught Vader? Was Vader his master?
He's dead now.

>Sith Lords are from the prequels

Retard

youtube.com/watch?v=8Erf6s_wYJk

Supreme Leader*

Becasue one of them didn't need development you utter moron.
The emperor reigns over the mepire.
That's it. doesn't need anymore. He's at the top of the food chain as the emperor. The title itself inplies it already. Everything else like corrupting Vader was fluff added to him.

Now comes Snoke out of fucking nowhere and restores the broken empire into something bigger then what it was before when it had total hegemony over the galaxy.
If the OT didn't exist, he wouldn't need any further explenation. He'd be just the dude at the top of the food chain comanding everyone around.
Yet precisly because the OT exists Snokes whole existance in a walking contradiction without any further explenation.
He shouldn't be there. Not as a powerful force user let alone as the leader of the nuEmpire.

This.

How the fuck was he that powerful as a dark side user? I think that was what pissed people off the most... who trained this guy who then turned a beloved characters son against him?

>who comes out of the woods
>has the same authority as the emperor
>manages to rebuild the Empire into it's former glory if not bigger then what it was under the emperor
>basically renders the meperor useless without any explenation

>How was the First order Created?
>Who created it?
How would you know the Emperor created the empire without watching the prequels? You know emperor is a title, right? As in there may have been previous emperors before him?

>what makes him the leader why does he have force powers if Palpatine only taught Vader?
Multiple Star Wars movies have shown characters to be force sensitive without being Jedi/Sith. Furthermore, there is no evidence without the prequels that Palpatine only taught Vader. He looks old as fuck, he could have been a thousand years old.

Star Wars was new and every character had no back story. It was different.

These movies are sequels. We should know who this guy is and how he rose to power in such an important position. Absolutely fucking dumb and unforgivable. But we got the casino scene where they save the horses!

He was the big bad at the end of the final movie, you moron.

Now, there's no big bad but Emo Boy.

What's the point to explain something to someone that can't understand?

>the OT totally talks about the Sith!
>posts rare deleted scene

Are you serious? I figured you would at least bring up the novelization calling Vader a Lord of the Sith, because that's something people actually saw. That's still meaningless, though, because the word was never defined; it was just something Lucas ripped off from the John Carter novels because it sounded cool. The idea that there was Sith Order that was made up of dark side users is entirely from the prequels. That's why early EU novels called evil force users Dark Jedi and Zahn originally called the Noghri the Sith, because he wanted to explain that title.

Emperor created the Empire by subjugating all other planets by force. We know this because of the clone wars mentioned. Even if it was his ancestors that created the Empire the current regime is implied to be tyrannical and heavy handed with its punishment. He has the resources to build a planet destroying weapon and is willing to use it.
>Multiple Star Wars movies have shown characters to be force sensitive without being Jedi/Sith.
Only in the expanded universe sadly.
>no evidence without the prequels that Palpatine only taught Vader
Agreed did he teach Snoke? Was Snoke a part of a master plan to replace Vader a vengeance from beyond the grave. Too late it doesn't matter he's dead.

it pisses me off because now everyone theories is worth jack shit. Want to know his secret buy the retarded Sheep/Whale edition for deleted scenes.

Plot of TFA: OMFG WHO IS SNOKE? WHO ARE REYS PARENTS?

Plot of TLJ: You are dumb for caring about these questions

The way these questions were handled by the plot was so derisive and shitty, they were literally the main build up in TFA.

and now theres no reason to see the next movie.

The Empire is not comparable. It’s clear the Empire was a long running organization. The First Order appeared out of a power vacuum over the course of a few decades.

You're being hypocritical. You didn't need backstory for Palpatine. You shouldn't need it for Snoke. But now you move the goalposts to suit your Nu-trilogy Sucks narrative. I and others were fine with Snoke's development. He's the new big bad. Full stop.

>Plot of TFA: OMFG WHO IS SNOKE? WHO ARE REYS PARENTS?
Is that seriously what you thought the plot was about? Jesus, is right.

Snoke's identity is irrelevant and the movie doesn't dwell on it at all. Rey's parents were just a plot device to keep her on Jakku, and they're no longer an issue when she accepts that they're dead and not coming back for her. The only reason those seemed like huge questions is because of the cancerous fanbase.

You are dumb for asking those questions, and you're even dumber if the only reason you dislike a movie is because it didn't confirm your fan theories or expectations.

>if I lower my standrds until I can pretend that nothing ever happened before TLJ I'm fine
>thus rendering any possible critisism of TLJ pointless
>even if a child is capable of understanding how fucking retarded it is in the first palce

>after the first one with all it's open questions the makers said that everything will beanswered in the sequel
>literally the only defense any supporter of TRFA has is "the next movie will make everything clear and it won't contradict the OT"
>the complete opposite happens
>hurr durr jsut stop caring about it fucking nazi shitlord

The mouse is really reeling, eh?
Despite making money with it they can smell the death of it on the horizon after fucking it up so bloody tremendously.

Becasue one of them didn't need development you utter moron.
The supreme commander reigns over the first order.
That's it. doesn't need anymore. He's at the top of the food chain as the supreme commander. The title itself implies it already. Everything else like corrupting kylo was fluff added to him.

Sorry Disney, you aren’t going to successfully force the “This movie was good, just shut up” meme on Star Wars fans

>The only reason those seemed like huge questions is because of the cancerous fanbase.

Episode 7 spends a non-insignificant amount of time teasing it. It's their own fault for using J.J. "Mystery Box" Abrams's underdeveloped story ideas.

Why are you so hostile and immature? Every response is either "moron" or "retard". Is ad hominem your default argumentative style? Talk to me after your balls drop kid.

The first order unironically could be a longer lived organization than the empire. The empire had only existed for like 16-17 years during ANH

He's built up over the course of the OT, the actions of Vader and the Imperials inform his development because the audience can infer that "if these guys are bad, their boss must be so much worse," and then when he finally appears in RotJ he completely delivers on all the buildup by being completely twisted, evil, and a legitimate threat bigger than anything we had seen yet in the trilogy.

In comparison, we don't have anyone as threatening as Vader in the First Order (it doesn't need to be Kylo, either, so this isn't a "Kylo is too emo" complaint, it could be a ruthless officer like Hux or even Phasma if they didn't make them both essentially joke characters), and his relationship to the First Order is not as clear as Emperor -> Empire. Obviously he's in charge but that could take a number of different forms.

>How would you know the Emperor created the Empire without watching the prequels?
This is all we need to know about it, from Episode IV:
youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OiIjIvN0A

Palpatine is an emperor who ruled the galaxy with an iron fist. Very easy cncept to grasp.
Snoke is a powerful Sith who's goals are never clear. Whats his beef with the republic? Why does he need Kylo Ren?
So many more questions unanswered.

Why the fuck are people obsessing over Snoke's backstory? Just wait until the pre-prequel trilogy is released that explains everything.

ah yes, we have to buy more merchandise to understamd this shitty fanfiction

Are you saying we need a sequel prequel series between 6 and 7 to develop his character?

I wouldn't put it past Disney.

Imagine if Palps had been in ESB (having been a hologram in ANH), got killed in the middle of the movie, and Luke/Vader fight wasn't at the end. This would irredeemibly fuck the entire movie.

Can we all at least agree that when Snoke was on screen he was seen as a menacing threat?

Like when he was super duper big in the hologram in TFA or when he just toyed with Rey by hitting her in the head with the lightsaber?

He was legit scary in this film.

It's still clear that the overall story is 'Beat the Empire', which obviously has to include bringing down the Emperor. Also, ANH makes it VERY clear that Vader's not in charge.

>I suppose you think the Emperor was also the main antagonist of the OT as well?
He's the main antagonist of the Rebellion, absolutely. And Snoke WAS the main antagonist of the resistance, but now...Kylo is, probably?

Because it undermines the OT and the rule of two. Even if we don't consider that, what the fuck was he doing this whole time while the Empire was around if he's so powerful? Why wouldn't he have just wrestled power away from Sidious or Vader?

Now kys.

>'Lord' Vader.
>Wasn't a Lord of anything.

>But how did he not feel the lightsaber moving?
He did. He felt Kylo using the Force to turn the lightsaber, HIS lightsaber. Snoke couldn't differentiate Kylo turning the lightsaber to strike at Rey or turning it to strike at himself.

>The first movie got away with problems so all of them can

it's friggin Star Wars. nuff said

Agreed.

I'd argue that given only the OT, it DOESN'T matter if Palpatine created the Empire (though we are told "The Emperor has dissolved the Senate"), though we would wonder a little bit about previous emperors if this guy was just the latest. In fact, if he was just Emperor no.X, we don't need to know much back story, because he's just the guy who's got the job now. But Snoke SOMEHOW came from nowhere and brought down the New Republic with vast resources that came from...somewhere.

They call Vader “Dark Lord Of The Sith” in New Hope, dude.

THIIIIIIS. TFA deliberately sets up 2 mysteries (3 maybe, if you include why Luke's disappeared, but that is mentioned at the end, AND expanded on in TLJ), then throws them both away in TLJ because ha! that totally defies expectations, and NOT, no way, because they couldn't come up with any decent ideas because it hadn't been thought out properly.

Not in any of the versions of the film that were released. I think they only say it in a deleted scene. See

When? Was it during the Tarkin scene in the conference room?

Toys and stuff called him Lord of the Sith. Movie has Tarkin calling him Lord Vader.

i always liked snokes flair he wears a robe sort of like Hugh Hefner and only uses giant holograms i might be wrong about that last bit but to be fair i haven't scene the movie yet and i personally will see it with an open mind sadly i had his fate and captain phasma's spoiled o well