'No one stays good in this world'

'No one stays good in this world'

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What is his face trying to convey? Seriously.

Disgust at himself

Cavill has a look
He's a terrible Superman otherwise

...

that's muh Superman. So deep.

Just because Cavill's portrayal lacks the charm, competence, warmth, communication skills, and whimsy of the Superman you're used to doesn't mean he's a bad portrayal, just a different one, like Miracleman, or Sentry.

Was that a line from the movie?

Plus it's wrong to blame Cavill for the way the character was written.

Technically we can blame him. Since Snyder settles characterization disputes with push up contests, it means that either Cavill didn't disagree, or he was too weak to protest.

visible confusion
a need to go to the bathroom
forgetting how to undo the buttflaps on the super suit

Blame that to Snyder, Goyer and Terrio.

Most other incarnations of Superman exist in universes where the general populace is inhumanly welcoming towards alien demigods. Cavillman doesn't, and so he's sad about it. Doesn't stop him from being Superman as fuck through his actions.

The populace being unwelcoming is a result of his own cowardice and social skills that are atrophied to the point of uselessness.

no, are you dumb? the first thing he did was hand himself over and give an interview, and bruce even says there are lots of articles written about him. You are just autistic, just because he tries to portray himself in a certain light doesnt mean everyone is going to buy it. Do you really think if Superman were to appear in our world we would just all be welcoming of him?

>He seriously thinks people wouldnt have split, outrageous, and firm opinions about a super powered alien coming to earth


What is wrong with you, boy?

I will never understand why people thought shit like Civil War and Doctor Strange was awesome but this was terrible.

> Saves 7-8 billion people repeatedly...
> Lacks competence...

>the first thing he did was hand himself over and give an interview,
That was already too late.
The thing you overlook is that Clark was too afraid to stand out to get the initiative or the first impression. By the time he shows up to hand himself over, Zod has already poisoned public opinion by threatening literally the entire planet. What good is an interview going to do after that?

>m-muh realism

Staying hidden for years to not risk causing society to fall apart from the relevations your existence would bring isn't cowardice, it was a selfless sacrifice for the greater good.

>can't stop a bad guy without thousands of people dying
>can't make people like him without dying himself
you're right he a good boy he didnu nuffin

so then you do have some understanding for why people arent accepting of superman off the bat then, good.


Also an interview does lots of good, at least half the world thinks positively of him.

And he wasnt afraid to stand out and give the first impression, Zod just came before he could really. It was a double edged sword, him activating his ship and getting his suit attracted Zod to earth.


And its not like he waited to reveal himself, the timing just sucked.

It's such a self fulfilling prophecy is what it's practically Oedipal.

It's the face of interacting with someone who hasn't showered in months.

He had plenty of charm & warmth in his scenes with Lois.
Even the scene at the bar when he puts his hand on the guys shoulder it came off as more of a friendly "come on bro chill out" then a act of intimidation.

>all fantasy has to be completely devoid of realism

Sad!

no it isnt

There is nothing wrong with giving us a Superman who goes public under harsh unideal circumstances.
Once again your wanting him to go everything perfectly and literally predict the fucking future apparently.

>Superman is always whimsical all the time in every iteration ever and cant be written any other way

casual pls leave

"half" is pretty generous and it doesn't actually change the point that he could win over more hearts and minds if he did more PR work than floating off looking austere and unknowable.

But no, even though humans are social creatures and Snyderman totally isn't a god we swear, he's gotta be a standoffish deified figure floating off in the heavens. Mixed messages? Certainly not! This is KINO!

>He had plenty of charm & warmth in his scenes with Lois.
That's not where it's needed but sure keep acting like the bath tub scene is all he needs.

...

>His smile and optimism : Challenged.

>If people discover aliens they'll flip out so I'll hide
>Evil alien comes in, issues utimatiums, now everyone hates me!
>Why can't I win them over?!
Let's see, in order to avoid an unsavory fate he acts in such a way that he encourages said fate to happen to him anyway. You're right. That's not a self fulfilling prophesy and this totally isn't a tragedy.

How? If Clark had revealed himself 5 years earlier, what fucking good what it have done? Zod would have still come, and shit would have still gone down. The only arguable benefit would be that Clark would have mastered his abilities a bit more.

>That awkward pause during the bathtub scene when Lois asks them about their relationship

Holy God it was horrible are you high?

>can't stop a bad guy without thousands of people dying
The thousands didn't die during their 1 on 1 fight, they died while he was on the opposite side of the planet saving 7-8 billion other lives.
Superman can do many things but he can't be in 2 places at once especially not on opposite sides of the planet.

>implying people liked IC once they calmed down from the hype

but he has done that, like I said, the very first thing he did was an interview and Bruce even talks about how there has been lots of newspaper coverage on Superman.


I dont know why you think him just talking to people would change people's minds. It didnt change Luthor's mind, it didn't change the general's mind, it didn't even change Batman's mind (Lois had to back him up and vouch for him). Show me a single panel of someone's mind about Superman being changed after he talks to them.


Like if OJ Simpson came up to you and had a conversation would you suddenly think he was innocent and change your mind about him? If Jesus Christ himself came up to a believer and said he wasnt the messiah would they just stop believing? No, they wouldnt.


Stop being autistic.

>There is nothing wrong with giving us a Superman who goes public under harsh unideal circumstances.
I absolutely agree. It just sucks that those circumstances are a result of his own cowardice and hypocritical recklessness.

>I need to hide or something might go wrong!
>I'll activate this space ship! What could possibly go wrong!?

>Superman should be mopey and dark all the time because of that one time he let loose and got real angry, even though that scene wouldn't have any impact if he wasn't usually a good-natured boy-scout.

I want idiots to leave

>realism is inherently cynical
Well I guess it does make sense that they started pandering to the Hot Topic set.

Wasn't talking about the bath tub scene.

Has it ever bloody occurred to you that Snyder has written his lack of public communication as being a actual mistake Clark is making in story?

>I dont know why you think him just talking to people would change people's minds.
I don't know why you guys think I think he should just talk. You keep going "actions speak louder!" but what's helping to rebuild after a fight? What's visiting cancer patients? Are those not actions as well?

>OJ Simpson
Oh it's you! I remember you from last thread.

its not though, you dont seem to know what that means. He doesnt even know who he is yet or how to present himself to the world. He doesnt even know what kind of alien he is really. Once he has that information and a way of showing himself he was ready to do it, he finally found a way to engage with the world. But then Zod comes, somehow he should have predicted this according to you, and he doesnt get the change to.


That isnt self fulfilling, its just bad timing. And idk where you are even getting this idea of Superman from, no version of him (outside of Superboy) has him announcing himself to the world as a superhero before he gets his suit or learns about his father. And even then he was still saving people from the shadows, which is more than Reeves man ever did. He LITERALLY hid from the world and learned from an AI for his young adult life.

HE CAN'T SEE THE FUCKING FUTURE.

Wasn't talking about the bath scene.

>mopey and dark

Nah, I like my superman full of hope and inspiration. Thank god for Snyder.

also

>thinking the opposite of whimsy is dark and brooding
>thinking snyderman is dark and brooding

The one time he broods, after a major terrorist attack in reaction to his presence, he gets over it by meditating on a fucking mountain. Whats dark about that?

>Show me a single panel of someone's mind about Superman being changed after he talks to them.
I actually have a panel like that but I can't remember where it's from. Maybe someone else can help me out

It's got the entire Justice League coming to a disaster site and the civilians are yelling at them for not coming sooner and Superman takes one of them aside and talks to him in the background and after a page they part after shaking hands. Anyone know what that's from?

no one is saying realism is inherently cynical except you, you just cant think otherwise because you are brainwashed by cartoons. Also have you seen hot topic recently?

hottopic.com/

>Star wars
>princesses
>weebshit

oh yeah really dark and brooding. Get out of your basement.

It has. Which is why I find it hilarious that when I say it's fucking stupid of him you people crawl out of the woodwork to go "it wouldn't matter anyway!"
Just like how it's fucking hilarious how you go "realistically the opinions on superman would be split!" but if I speak negatively about him you can't stop whining. I'm your split opinion and you can't handle it.

IT'S NOT FUCKING COWARDICE to not risk thousands of lives and potential global wars just to be a gloryslut & go public.

It's hundreds of thousands of years old, there is no reason on fucking earth to think any thing would result from it.
And leaving it for the army to reverse engineer for decades would be just as reckless.

>what's helping to rebuild after a fight? What's visiting cancer patients? Are those not actions as well?

by that logic, Reevesman is just as bad as Snyderman because he doesnt do any of that shit either.


>Oh it's you! I remember you from last thread.

And you still dont have a good answer for it! Amazing!

Please stop being autistic.

Why are people coming up with all these dumb plot reasons for why Superman doesn't just hold a press conference and set everything straight? The real reason is that he's a metaphor for God and God can't just hold a press conference.

>Once he has that information and a way of showing himself he was ready to do it, he finally found a way to engage with the world.
Literally all he did was put on a different set of clothes. You'd have a point if they bothered to spend any time on the whole "adopt a secret identity so you can be a part of humanity half the time" thing but they skipped over that part of his arc entirely.

well by your logic, Reeve's Superman is shit too because he never changes anyone's mind by talking to them. In fact by stopping to talk to Luthor he gets Lois killed.

If he can't see the future why was he so sure that humanity would ABSOLUTELY go bonkers if he went around saving lives?

Oh wait. JONATHAN could see the future. That's it, right?

>i'm a mature adult and i hate cartoons
get the fuck off the comics and cartoons board then. I'm sure there's a foot thread on Sup Forums for you.

Just because it is a mistake doesn't mean he is worthy of scorn or mockery.
He is doing what he thinks as right, he believes staying above the fray of politics & the media is the right thing to do.

The worse problem is you treating him being written this was a incompetent writing on Snyder's part... no SUPERMAN IS ALLOWED TO BE FUCKING FLAWED.

>Literally all he did was put on a different set of clothes.

What? No. He also found what race he was, where he came from, who is dad was, etc.

>You'd have a point if they bothered to spend any time on the whole "adopt a secret identity so you can be a part of humanity half the time" thing

What do you mean? Thats never been part of his "arc." In the original Superman movie Jor-El just tells him to do it and he does it, it was never part of his arc. He got no character growth from it outside of meeting and falling for Lois. He has never been like Batman where he lives two separate lives as a superhero and a man, he is the same, bringing his passion for justice into both parts of his life. Hell, the current Superman comics exemplify that part exceptionally.

>Reevesman is just as bad as Snyderman because he doesnt do any of that shit either.
He puts the roof on the white house on back after Zod knocks it off in Superman 2. Then he promises the president not to let the people down again.

I love cartoons, I just dont think realism is inherently cynical and dont see tones as black and white.

I answered you last thread. Go check the archive.
To be fair he did hold press conferences, off camera, in between movies, but they didn't work because reasons. Fuck you it's art.

I was just talking about Superman: The Movie user, because if we are going to use multiple movies then we got to wait for Cavil's entire career as Superman before making any judgement calls. If we are going with the logic that "well he hasnt done it YET so he isnt a good Superman" then Reeves was a terrible Superman in Superman: The Movie.

>I answered you last thread. Go check the archive.

No, you just said "isnt it fucked up that you can compare OJ to Superman?"

thats a non-answer.

Is Reeve Superman even Post-Crisis?
Pre and Post Crisis are basically different characters.

And why are you treating Reeve like the gold standard anyway?

because a press conference would just set everything straight.... are you retarded? When has that ever worked in real life. Tell me, when has a press conference changed the entire public's opinions 100%?

Because it is a perfectly reasonably conclusion when you live in a realistic world close to the hell hole we live in which is what this was intentionally going for.
It's meant to be Superman by way of X-men.
I doubt ether of them were absolutely sure that such would happen but it's too big of a issue to just blindly risk it.

>superman is allowed to be flawed
>d-don't you dare make fun of those flaws though!
My sides. They are in orbit.

that has nothing to do with this, you are dodging the question. You are saying Cavil was bad because he didnt change people's minds by talking to them, so by that logic you must think Reeves was a bad Superman too.

Moving the goalposts already I see. We've got two movies of each to compare.

because that is what would normally happen, read Secret Identity you casual. This isnt even like made up for the movie, these are ideas present in the comics.

>if he doesnt do the exact thing I want by the second movie he is a bad Superman

what a shitty standard you've set for yourself. And Snyderman has saved more people than Reeveseman has. He saved the world, twice.

Check the archive. I asked the same question I asked now about how he could do some altrusitic charity ACTIONS or clean up his messes.

Granted it seems that just leads to you going "b-but reeve didn't do it!" so I guess you have no actual argument as to why it's not a good idea.

>He doesn't know what moving the goal posts means

Learn. English.

> Comic book Superman lands in school yard full of kindergarden kids
> Kids come up to Superman and get hugs and taken flying
> He brings them back safely and everyone loves Superman

> MoS Superman Superman lands in school yard full of kindergarden kids
> Kids run away screaming
> Superman looks confused, sad, and doesn't understand why the world looks at him like a piece of shit
> Even though it's broad day light and the sun is shining, everything is dark and grey and needs spotlights or floodlights to be seen

This is why.

> he could do some altrusitic charity ACTIONS

You mean like saving people from floods and fires? You mean like saving the world? You mean like pic related?

Yeah, I kind of do. I think Reeve was much closer but didn't quite hit the mark of a modern Superman. Honestly Routh did an okay job too; that plane rescue was top notch.

But the idea is that Snyder's supposed to be doing a better job than Donner. Or are we content to just repeat the same mistakes over and over?

I'm just saying your highly specific standard for what makes a good Superman is ridiculous and the epitome of "not muh." Go read more comics, there are lots of versions and takes on Superman that are all good and valid.

The only difference you've pointed out is how the people react to him.
Which was the point of BvS.

Now that he sacrificed himself for humanity, people see what he's willing to do for them and that he's not a god and will embrace him a bit more.

I get that people want to actually see those parts, but that's not the aspect of Superman that Snyder is interested in.

>Because it is a perfectly reasonably conclusion
So "people will chimp out and jihad in the streets" is reasonable, but "I should be careful in this 1000+ year old space ship" requires literal future sight?

That just sounds like a double standard. Realistically, in the real world, you have to be careful when you explore sunken human ships. A few years ago they found a doctor's room on one that was filled with viable smallpox samples.

What? But all of that happened in the movie...? You aren't making any sense, its past your bedtime kid.

Because for all those flaws those movies were actually entertaining to watch.

No actually. I mean feel good PR stuff like throwing the opening ball at a Metropolis Meteors game or doing a celebrity style pop in at a children's hospital. Or having coffee with first responders. Grassroots stuff, not big shows disaster relief that just lends to more god worship. Having him play with sick kids shows he can be trusted not to abuse his power. Having him at a ball game humanizes him in a way that floating away once the crisis is averted does not.

>"people will chimp out and jihad in the streets"

What? Why do you assume that? What a silly conclusion. He was obviously worried about government spying (which they tried to do), huge religious shifts (which happened), and other things (like people like Lex Luthor devoting their resources to killing Superman).


There are tons of possible bad things that could come from Superman revealing himself, all perfectly reasonable. Go read Secret Identity, it covers a lot of this stuff.

Hey I liked the movie dude, but I get that people wanted to see Superman save the cat out of the tree and have a kid go "Gee thanks Superman!", not Superman wrestling with the moral implications of his place on earth.

They really werent.

Yeah see guys like you just go "read more comics" and then I do and I keep finding more comics that are the complete opposite of this trash. So maybe you should recommend one specifically.

Or hey post them since you seem to have them in mind and you're so sure of yourself.

Hey I'll admit that some of the MCU films are entertaining but Civil War is a massive bore, and Doctor Strange is so paint by numbers that it barely even registers.

But the world wasnt at a point where they could accept him like that. He wouldnt just be allowed to throw the opening ball at a baseball game because look what happened when he attended a senate hearing: a terrorist blew it up. Imagine if someone tried to blow up the children's hospital he was at, or if the ground where he had that coffee becomes holy ground for those that think of him as the messiah.


You wanted Superman to exist in a more idealized world, and now that he has died to show everyone who he is, the world will become more like that.

>huge religious shifts
That's the jihad in the streets part.
And where exactly did that happen?

>Go read Secret Identity
The series that gave us Superboy-Prime. Of course you'd recc that. I'm not sure if this is irony but it is amusing all the same.

If you actually read the articles, he does smaller stuff like help a starving homeless man in the woods. But generally, I dont think he could do that kind of PR stuff without the world throwing a shit fit in BvS. Remember, he is the FIRST public superhero.

>But the world wasnt at a point where they could accept him like that.
Who's fault is that? He had 18 months between the invasion and the senate hearing to de-escalate the situation. He obviously didn't do that because we got the powder keg that was BvS.

And the idea that Super-Jesus has to die to inspire people to be better is silly when even Johns can put out a halfway readable story where he manages to turn people around without getting stabbed in the chest.

But hey maybe you should follow Snyderman's example if you really want to convince me.

Okay, I will post a bunch of a comic where Superman doesnt talk to people and convinces them to change their mind, since that is your highly specific bar that makes a good Superman.


Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
For The Man Who Has Everything
Death of Superman
DC Comics Presents Superman & Swamp Thing
John Byrne's Man of Steel

>If you actually read the articles, he does smaller stuff like help a starving homeless man in the woods
And you have to freeze frame to get that. I know Snyder is supposedly the next Kubrick but it's just not enough.

>talk to people
you're doing it again.

>Who's fault is that? He had 18 months between the invasion and the senate hearing to de-escalate the situation. He obviously didn't do that because we got the powder keg that was BvS.


So its his fault that the world is the way it is? Why do you believe humans can be swayed so easily. Show me evidence and proof that Superman could have changed public opinion more effectively and in a shorter time span.
>And the idea that Super-Jesus has to die to inspire people to be better is silly when even Johns can put out a halfway readable story where he manages to turn people around without getting stabbed in the chest.


Its not about them making them better people, its about explicitly showing that he is NOT Super-Jesus, he is not a god, and he is just here to do the best that he can with what he has. That he is just a man that wants to do good. That he should not be praised or feared.


And I dont know why you are so mad that he didnt get his reputation fast enough. BvS is the movie all about him earning that trust you wanted to have faster for some reason. If BvS was set a month earlier, so he did de-escelate it in less than 18 months, would you have been happier?

>That's the jihad in the streets part.
But that did happen to some extent I GUESS with the bombing on the senate. But your example is retardedly specific.


>And where exactly did that happen?
The people who were praising Superman like a god? The day of the dead people? The people that painted his symbol on their house? When they talk about it in the newscast montage?
>The series that gave us Superboy-Prime. Of course you'd recc that. I'm not sure if this is irony but it is amusing all the same.

What? No it didnt you dumb ass. Secret Identity ends with Superman having a full family. You casual shit.