Not caught up to the thread? No worries! Each of these stories, with a few exceptions, is relatively self-contained. Though obviously the more you've read, the more you'll like it. You can start with any writer you want.
Part 1 - Gods and Mortals (George Perez) desuarchive.org/co/thread/91303244/ Part 2 - Challenge of the Gods I-II (George Perez) desuarchive.org/co/thread/91309099/ Part 3 - Challenge of the Gods III (George Perez) desuarchive.org/co/thread/91350699/ Part 4 - "Taco Whiz" (Bill Messner-Loebs) desuarchive.org/co/thread/91378988/ Part 5 - The Contest (pre-Crisis) Part 6 - The Contest (Bill Messner-Loebs) Part 7 - The Challenge of Artemis (Bill Messner-Loebs) Part 8 - Paradise Lost + 1988 Bonus Books (Phil Jimenez) Part 9 - Paradise Found + Girl Frenzy: Donna Troy (Phil Jimenez) Part 10 - A League of One + The Golden Perfect (Christopher Moeller, Joe Kelly) Part 11 - The Hiketeia (Greg Rucka) Part 12 - Stoned (Greg Rucka) Part 13 - Land of the Dead (Greg Rucka) Part 14 - Manhunter: Unleashed (Mark Andreyko)
Instead of UAVs and radar, they just have an oracle.
Xavier Stewart
I'm currently trying to read all 25 tie-ins to War of the Gods.
I do not recommend trying this at home.
Samuel Myers
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Samuel Lee
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Austin Sanders
Man, Sup Forums is on full-on console wars mode today. Fucking Sup Forums.
Caleb Harris
I think Perez and/or Rucka meant for some kind of hymen metaphor or something with Cheetah, with her being powered by blood sacrifice and her curse coming from not being a virgin when she got her powers.
Aaron Baker
It gives me a legitimate headache.
Xavier Hill
Maybe it's time for another run of JLA/Avengers to cool them off a bit. It was last run a little over a year ago (before Rebirth), but I do not nearly have the same knowledge as that OP
Josiah Phillips
Hey Tex.
So, last night we were talking about how Odyssey of the Amazons was a disappointing waste of time. Any ideas on how you'd improve it?
There's of course the obvious stuff like giving the characters some goddamn personality, and cutting out that utterly pointless and annoying narration, but like, aside from that.
Josiah Cruz
I'm definitely down.
Jaxon Perez
I think number one would be to make it about Amazons going on a mission of peace to save women in turmoil instead of a mission of war to assist already proficient warrior women in killing people.
Blake Roberts
The one character that really shone in it was the one who was an artist instead of a warrior, because because it helped further the idea that Amazons in DC are not just female Spartans, they're essentially a giant fantasy women's shelter.
William Moore
We need to find out who did it last time. Over 200 images, with comments about what is going on with character history in each one. desuarchive.org/co/thread/80105334
I would run to tomorrow (since I know how to queue images in order now), but I really lack that user's encyclopedic knowledge
Unrelated, Tacticool Artemis is really doing something for me
Aaron Powell
It'd be interesting to have some of the Amazons be distrustful and bitter towards men. Even one of them could be a 90's "bad girl" like Zealot/Artemis.
William Morgan
The thirst is real.
Kayden Ward
That's what the ads made it sound like, in fact. The pre-release material made it out to be the adventures of a bunch of Amazons traveling the world, solving mysteries, and despensing old world justice to rapists and wife beaters. For whatever reason, we instead got some utterly pedestrian rescue mission stretched out to six issues.
Decompression strikes again. Should've been a series of stand alone adventures with loose connective tissue.
Cameron Morales
Desu I'm way more into Cheetah murdering everyone than I am anything else with her. This page is great.
It is kinda interesting to take the retrospective here vs. how Barb has been given background in Rebirth Wonder Woman though
Benjamin Barnes
Ironic considering that the combat action seems to be the focus of the book, the action is completely boring because it's just them effortlessly mowing down faceless generic bad guys.
Even with how powerful the Amazons are, anything more than a dozen mooks should be a threat to their group.
I'm trying to find this interesting interview with Rucka and Sharp that described how the Cheetah origin in Rebirth was totally unplanned and arose organically from Sharp's amazing redesign, but I can't seem to locate it.
Jayden Robinson
Yeah, I was positive of it going in, and was just really bummed it was so uninteresting.
I did end up reading #2 and felt the characters weren't as bad as I initially felt, at least the actual Amazons. Still really basic stuff. "Pedestrian" is probably the best description.
Landon Allen
That is my kinda storytime right there.
Jordan Barnes
>despensing old world justice to rapists and wife beaters Just gonna drop my fave (fictional) revenge-of-the-wronged deity here:
Could definitely go with a Glorantha comic at some point or another. If you don't know it, it's this weird hyper-Campbellian TTRPG world and the same setting as King of Dragon Pass is placed in.
Carter Collins
I do love Rebirth Cheetah, I guess I could call it the "Heart of Ice" of Cheetah.
Honestly except for the uber violent nature of Cheetah, since Perez she's kinda had the same role as Circe-- ultra confident bad bitch that fucks with Diana. Which is great still, and I never would have had any problem with it had Rebirth Cheetah not been so damn good of a step up.
Thomas Rodriguez
Rebirth Cheetah is kinda like Two-Face, except without the decades of complete bungling and mishandling Two-Face has racked up.
Justin Davis
They had me at "Axe Goddess".
Zachary Kelly
I dunno, Tex. Nearly every time man hate comes up, it nearly always spirals out of control into strawman caricature.
Which especially stupid since their back story with Hercules frankly gives them perfectly good reason to be distrustful of men. And yet, the Amazons are more often than not treated as the bad guys. Need I remind anyone of the Finch run, where they went full KILL ALL PENISES, or even, ugh, Amazons Attack?
It'd be nice to see some characters overcome their own sexism, but writers have continually proven they can't do it without being stupid.
Hudson Brown
Rucka puts a lot of sexuality into Cheetah in this run, which Simone would in turn pick up on.
Anthony Young
oh hey, Donna's alive again
Tyler Wilson
He said. On an Aircraft Carrier blockade.
Logan Johnson
I think I would have been pretty interested in a bunch of one-shots or short sequences about individual stranded Amazons? That would have given you a lot of room to play around.
Isaac Watson
I don't mean for it to be a revenge fantasy kind of thing, and like you say it's pretty difficult to skirt the line between something that seems real and strawman.
Like the awful Spirit of Truth with the Muslim strawmen.
Something I felt kind of weird about in Perez is that Heracles eventually comes and reconciles with the Amazons and is totally forgiven. He's demonstrated as fully reformed and all, but Hippolyta even starts crushing on him again, and finally Heracles chooses ascending to Olympus over getting to live in Paradise banging Hippolyta for eternity, to show that he is redeemed.
I don't wanna get into overanalyzing implications but I just didn't get what the point was. Maybe it was to be the start of their reintegration into Man's World that came a few arcs later?
Aiden Morgan
An issue for each of the main Amazons would have been pretty cool-- Phillipus, Menallipe, Antiope, Hippolyta, maybe bring back Io, and maybe Artemis. A mix of stories set before they went to Themyscira and some set on Themyscira or in modern times. Like Antiope's one would explore her whole history.
Remember those bonus books I posted each focusing on a specific Amazon? That's what I'm envisioning.
Though at that point it would be so far from the Odyssey pitch to be something entirely different anyway.
Andrew Perry
And just the word "Odyssey" gives me PTSD flashbacks.
Tyler Lopez
To be continued in Infinite Crisis™ on sale at your local event comic dealer!
Ian Torres
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Nolan Bell
Should have just gone to Kate in the first place.
Leo Gutierrez
>kanga riders Sometimes Rucka just gets it.
Jace Garcia
Also Artemis literally with a big fucking 90's gun and trademark bad girl poses.
Nathaniel Gutierrez
Something about Diana on trial even with her saying she intends/wants to accept the judgement just rubs me the wrong way.
Henry Collins
>Though at that point it would be so far from the Odyssey pitch to be something entirely different anyway. Hardly a bad thing. The Amazon supporting characters could use a boost. It always seems like they aren't as important as they should be in any given arc, can't really articulate why.
Plus, people keep bitching about a lack of a consistent supporting cast, so having some one shots focusing on the more well known Amazons is frankly a wise idea.
Joshua Wood
Sorry to keep bringing up the bad girl stuff but I've been fascinated by it after reading some articles about them on womenwriteaboutcomics
Logan Morgan
It feels like something out of 2006 Marvel.
>people keep bitching about a lack of a consistent supporting cast Precisely what I was gonna bring up. All this Wondie reading has made me realize they need to bring back the classic Amazons, the Kapatelis's, maybe even fucking Inspector Indelicato.
Ayden Turner
And they would just reuse this entire plot again years later in Amazons Attack.
Michael Carter
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Brandon Fisher
>Perez's Amazons hoped never to need weapons again >Rucka's Amazons in tacticool armor with rifles and grenades Mmkay.
Dominic Torres
Not complaining, just thinking it's funny.
>Io, we need fresh J.O. crystals!
Christian Cruz
You ever wonder how many Supervillains have motivations more or less rooted in jealousy and feelings of inferiority?
Joseph Carter
>years later
It was actually like right after 52 ended so one year after IC. And Amazon Attack was actually planned for the WW book as a lead up to IC. For some reason Rucka decided otherwise.
Caleb Baker
Whoops
Eli Rodriguez
>It feels like something out of 2006 Marvel.
Yeah. I just don't see what's happening here as in-character for Diane. I can see the angle on it but I'm unconvinced by it.
NGL the tacticool Amazons aren't really doing it for me either. It's a matter of personal tastes I guess.
Ethan Allen
>You ever wonder how many criminal have motivations more or less rooted in jealousy and feelings of inferiority?
feel free to link 'em though that site is often 2pretentious4me
Elijah Anderson
Yeah I was talking about that last thread, I do wonder what went on behind the scenes there, especially since the actual Amazons Attack event was without a doubt editorially forced.
I do like a lot of their articles, pretty intelligent stuff. Tried following a few on Twitter and they mostly retweet insufferable crap unfortunately, which is a trend with like everyone I like that writes about comics.
Jackson Lewis
Yeah, the tacticool isn't working on anyone other than Artemis for me.
Also, Mamitu must have some pretty well known breasts
Gabriel Howard
Eh, with other characters it looks silly, but Artemis IS a bad girl straight out of the 90s, so it works for her. Her outfit needs more skulls.
Odyssey made the mistake of making up a bunch of new characters nobody knows or cares about. To paraphrase the wise Mark Grudelwald, never make up superfluous new stuff when something that already exists will do.
I like this one just because it brings up a lot of really interesting questions without trying to answer them because they're very complex issues.
Before reading that I thought the whole anger over the Wonder Woman as an ambassador thing was dumb but the article goes into the legitimate fears of both sides of the issue, while also commenting on how it's a lot more complicated than either side is making it out to be.
Christopher Adams
>by Mamitu's breasts In all honesty that's not very far from the level of the infamous America Chavez line
Wyatt Collins
I did some very shitty fanfics when I was a young'un and I'll admit to doing some oneliners almost as bad as the America thing.
John King
I find with the site it very often comes to the writer on when an article's good or not. I do think that article us solid, there are good points to be made there and semi-regularly there are some interesting discussions/retrospectives from people with good specific knowledge too.
But other times, oof. I can usually hard pass on CN there.
Parker Lewis
Exactly. There's some very cringey stuff. But kinda the whole shtick of these kind of sites is to overanalyze stuff to generate material for articles, so I can't blame em for just doing what everyone else does necessarily.
Quick google tells me Mamitu was a goddess of destiny/fate/curses and supposedly associated with newborns, which is probably the reason for that line. I mean, it's better than "By the fateful teats"
Landon Brown
Yeah it's got the root "mamma-" so I figured it was something to do with, well, mammaries.
Kevin Brooks
Apparently they've acquired a target.
Easton Ward
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Carson Turner
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Jason Adams
Kind of interesting that both Perez and Rucka's runs end with a subpar event crossover.
Jonathan Thomas
I confess I've no idea what the etymology of that is like beyond Latin, and that is pre-Latin.
Jordan Martinez
The difference that Perez ragequit DC because of it, Rucka stuck around for a few more years.
Jaxson Rodriguez
There's a lot of words I only know because of Greek gods with similar names.
Ryder Hughes
I can't remember if that big "Purple Death Ray" from IC that bordered on insulting shows up in this or not
Anthony Wright
I never understood how Diana was so chill in Azzarello's run when every other amazon was full on murder-happy on men. Total disconnect.
Kevin Fisher
It's not like they could coerce her. Or find a Superhero to help them do it.
Hell, I doubt they could even get Task Force X in on it. Wall just don't play that.
Ryder James
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John Roberts
It's one of my biggest problems with the run. Azz seems to paradoxically kind of get Wonder Woman herself but not anything involving her mythos.
But then also some of the things with Diana come off as playing lip service to her character rather than actually expressing the traits naturally (see the "I love everyone" scene).
John Howard
Honestly, America's cringe line is 1000000% better if spoken by Robin. >Holy menstruation, Batman!
Isaiah Sanders
War of the Gods DOES have something I really like involving the Amazons: only a couple of the Amazons that went with Hippolyta to Man's World were actual dedicated warriors, so only Phillipus and her crew were able to fight adequately, while you had some other Amazons that were just running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they didn't want to fight.
One of them picks up an Uzi and tries to defend herself with it and is so shocked by the kick and firepower that she just throws it away and runs off.
Julian Scott
Too bad ASBaR will never get finished because it would work perfectly there.
Nolan Rivera
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Joseph Rivera
Imagine Batman and Robin going up against that one Slott villain, something-Flo, and Robin dropping that line.
Charles Sanchez
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Aiden Adams
It's really annoying how Lee is working on everything BUT ASBAR.
Like ASBAR continuation would've sold better than Suicide Squad and the new book from the new line Johns' JL is probably Lee's only thing that would've sold as good or better than ASBAR part 2
I'm not the type to say stuff like "____ is rolling in his grave!", but Marston is totally rolling in his grave.
To be fair, this idea was created in the 70's technically.
Tyler Martin
I'm still surprised by how many copies of the latest DKR3 copy sold last month
Levi Williams
I wouldn't think about it too hard, since it's just plain old vanilla bad writing.
In practice, it feels more like Azzarello's Wondy knowledge is secondhand, rather than coming from actually reading her books.
In fact, didn't he say that he never gave a shit about her until he started writing her? Rather telling, if so.
Jack Baker
>that one Slott villain, something-Flo You mean the one from Savage Dragon? Heavy Flo? What does that gotta do with Slott, senpai?
Xavier Price
I'm convinced neither wants to actually finish it and they're just playing lip service when they say it's still coming.
It's like the follow-up to The Widening Gyre, they know it's poorly received and just wanna forget about it at this point.
Jaxson Ramirez
>Something I felt kind of weird about in Perez is that Heracles eventually comes and reconciles with the Amazons and is totally forgiven. He's demonstrated as fully reformed and all, but Hippolyta even starts crushing on him again, and finally Heracles chooses ascending to Olympus over getting to live in Paradise banging Hippolyta for eternity, to show that he is redeemed.
Goerge Perez handling of Heracles in his run never made any sense for me as well. Too many weird implications there.
For example i never understood why Perez (along with John Byrne) had Wonder Woman crushing hard on Superman after seeing him for brief minutes during the Legends cross-over arc. She even accepted to go on an arranged date with him in some secluded location.
You'd think that Wonder Woman'd see Superman as an obvious Herakles parallel: extremely powerful and famous hero who's also charming. Not that i'm calling Superman rapist or anything, but shouldn't she be a bit weary of him? Little bit conflicted about the idea of going on a blind-date with this stranger despite his fame?
But nope, instead she's there on this date and comparing him to Olympian gods while being somewhat peeved by his humbleness and insecurities.
Cooper Green
Azz's run would've worked a lot better as an elseworld desu
>didn't he say that he never gave a shit about her until he started writing her? I think he said something like that and something like he didn't like any of her villains
Jeremiah Cooper
>In fact, didn't he say that he never gave a shit about her until he started writing her? Rather telling, if so. desu I totally get where Azz is coming from here because I wanna write (reboot) the Inhumans but I hate all of them.
Oliver Wilson
Wouldn't doubt that at all.
Oh yeah, for some reason I associated that with GLA. Maybe I'm thinking of, Big Bertha I think her name was?
Gabriel Morales
That's interesting vs. the not-Spartans approach because if you DO write them as not-Spartans you can't really ignore that Sparta inculcated its culture from early childhood and was brutal in doing so. In a way that went beyond its own society in more ways than just wars: look at like the Krypteia.
Paradise Island does not really line up with military fascism, right? Imagine Robert Heinlein's Themyscira, though!
Matthew Sullivan
ASBAR is a post-ironic modern classic though.
Jose Flores
Why?
Tyler Scott
Hey hey hey, Amazons Attack was the Amazons invading Washington DC. This is Themyscira being invaded by OMAC. It's also probably better written and probably doesn't have any Bees.
Dominic Harris
The date thing actually ended up being handled pretty well once I actually read it, IMO. They both admit to having just been attracted to the idea of another kind of "ideal" godlike person who they could relate to, but after their team-up they found they were too different.
I've got a good page of Superman explaining it here after this issue
Sebastian Cox
Yeah
Miller will probably work on DKIV or that solo Carrie book he wants to write before they finish ASBAR
Carter Reed
>probably doesn't have any Bees. >implying that's a good thing
