Several retailers were hesitant to talk about the subject of “Secret Empire” and the Hydra takeover, with one responding simply, “This topic is a little toxic.” Other retailers, such as LeBlanc, are avoiding promoting the series and the takeover initiative, saying it goes against the sense of inclusivity they’ve worked to build in their store. Greg Gage says Utah’s Black Cat Comics won’t be taking part, noting, “There’s a rise of anti-Semitic behavior in this world right now. The last thing I want to do is force my queer, Jewish employee to wear a Hail Hydra shirt.”
There seems to be some misconception about what the Hydra takeover is, and how Marvel are coordinating with retailers. Everyone I spoke to said that they haven’t heard from Marvel directly about the marketing initiative, but there are promotional items that have been available to them for several months. LeBlanc raised that point that Marvel may have had more success with the initiative if it focused on the superhero resistance as opposed to asking stores to appear to be collaborating with the villainous organization. “These would have addressed the adverse feelings and framed their narrative as a confrontation of harmful ideas, instead of an embrace, which would have gone a long way against appearing as though they are Nazi sympathizers.”
Many of the retailers who responded to me worry that being associated with promoting “Secret Empire” could cost them customers. Jon Chandler of Alabama’s ShoNuff Comics told me that out of two hundred customers with pull lists, only one of them orders “Captain America: Steve Rogers,” a title the store only orders six copies of total for each issue.
Gareth Hoskins of Virginia’s Victory Comics said his customers’ dissatisfaction with Marvel and “Secret Empire” began with the previous Marvel Comics summer event. “With ‘Civil War II,’ we began bleeding Marvel subscribers, because that event was a hot mess. Now we have ‘Secret Empire,’ and our customers are verbally angry with Marvel.” He noted that the general feeling in his store is that customers want it to hurry up and finish so they can enjoy Captain America comics again, a statement echoed by other retailers I spoke with.
Not every retailer is against “Secret Empire,” however; a number are openly excited to be taking part in the takeover event, as Chris Proulx of Double Midnight Comics, New Hampshire told me. “When Marvel put this opportunity out there, we decided to play along. It was something different that they hadn’t done for other events. We felt it was a way for us to participate in the overall event!” He did also note that while his customers are a bit wary of the event, his staff have worked to assuage them of their concerns, and he is confident Marvel would never do anything to tarnish Captain America’s legacy.
Joshua James
A number of retailers were generally apathetic, pointing out that Marvel’s attempt to include them in the takeover has been somewhat half-hearted and many of their customers just aren’t enthused about the story one way or the other. Zach Power of Iowa’s Daydreams Comics noted “We’ve never had much luck getting any interest from clientele in any companies various initiatives/parties/etc, so I tend to not pay them much attention.” while Kyle McCormick of Wyoming’s Gryphon Games & Comics won’t be participating because “our guys just don’t seem that enthused about the story.”
While not indicative of retailers in North America as whole, the majority of the responses I received seemed to range from cautious to actively negative. Even the retailers who are positive and excited about the event recognize the need to address readers’ concerns with regard to the storyline’s more controversial elements. The main takeaway seemed to be that retailers want Marvel be more receptive to building a dialogue because they feel their voices are going unheard, and it’s something that has an impact on their business, customers and livelihood. “Secret Empire” is going to chug along for the next few months, but on the ground it seems like many stores just want to move past it, onto the next thing, as soon as possible.
Jacob Morgan
oh Chris
sweet, naive Chris
Carson Jackson
Article author also summed it up even more in his tweet:
>I'll dive into it in detail, but a big recurring theme is that retailers feel like Marvel don't listen to them compared to other publishers.
I remember hearing that since the 00's.
Josiah Anderson
Marvel antagonizing the very people they pander to.
Colton Price
>LeBlanc raised that point that Marvel may have had more success with the initiative if it focused on the superhero resistance as opposed to asking stores to appear to be collaborating with the villainous organization. This. A thousand times this. Hell, it would be so perfect. You can use the some tagline like "Join the Revolution!" or "Join the Cause!" or some shit and everyone would lap it up and buy into it. It's literally perfect.
But instead they promote the Hydra side? The side that Spencer and Marvel have literally painted as Trump Racist Facists? Are these people idiots?
Jason Young
>taking a principled stand against Marvel’s storyline
They never took a principled stand against Marvel's other terrible tie-ins. At least this one is well written.
No one flipped their shit when Axis came out.
Matthew Wright
>At least this one is well written. let's not go crazy
Hunter Edwards
But it is better written than Civil War II and Age of Ultron.
Liam Adams
What a high bar\
Xavier Perry
What a pussy.
Jose Rodriguez
true but those didn't have a massive marketing blitz asking comic stores to dress up as Ultron or whoever
not a very big hurdle to be better than those, though
Brody Young
>Catalog All lies.
Angel Jenkins
fuck off, Nick
Noah Brooks
>Mattel box art spiderman >Timothy Spall as old man Logan >The fantastic shrinking panther >Locomotive Carol- justice league unlimited male base edition >Rocket-Monkey >Wikihow-Widow >Manlet-pool >Plastic Man america (this or he has a shield for a hand) >The only marvel fan above fifty that would cosplay as Black Bolt
Josiah Bell
that doesn't make it well-written
Grayson Hughes
...
William Bennett
Somebody should send this to CBR
Charles Jones
I've said it before and i'll say it again: Bendis and Spencer need to be fired. It's like those two have selective hearing, responding to the good comments and pretending like the haters don't exist.
Aiden Rivera
>DC Universe Rebirth? That was the trial run. Marvel wins. I wonder if Rich the Leech regrets this
Zachary Rivera
Ike just really wants to cash in on the "Hail Hydra" memes
Sebastian James
Nick Spencer discovering once again that SJW media manipulation is real.
Zachary Richardson
Do you really think CBR and the like don't watch Sup Forums? We have several known leakers.
Tyler Carter
I really want to see pics of the stores that do participate. I think its a fun idea, like when Dark Knight was coming out and they did a promotional Elect Harvey Dent for DA campaign at various cities.
Mason Collins
He'll just say he was technically right in that it did get more attention at the time
Bentley Gutierrez
I now you hate Marvel and everything Sup Forums, but his is complete bullshit. >"The last thing I want to do is force my queer, Jewish employee to wear a Hail Hydra shirt.” It's fucking ridiculous.
Jordan Jackson
>usual comic fans don't buy our shit anymore no matter how mad we make them! >I know! let's piss the liberals now! Do I smell Marvel crawling back from their dark ages?
Jaxson Barnes
why would he insult his Jewish employee in an interview?
Ayden Green
What kind of self-respecting adult says shit like "very vocally not validating the emotions of...?
Jaxson Lee
no, because they're still telling the same stories with the same writers
Brandon Morris
But now they do it to piss the SJW.
At the very least it'll be hilarious to see unlike the completely forgettable Civil War II and whatever came before it.
Zachary Martinez
It seems like a mix of people who are personally offended by the books (and thus idiots) and retailers generally dissatisfied with the quality of Marvel's communication and the opportunities Marvel gives them. Which has certainly been going on for a lot longer than Secret Empire.
I mean the article is sold as based on the offensive content but the survey (which is not that many stores, really) can't even hold that up right? >A number of retailers were generally apathetic, pointing out that Marvel’s attempt to include them in the takeover has been somewhat half-hearted and many of their customers just aren’t enthused about the story one way or the other. Zach Power of Iowa’s Daydreams Comics noted “We’ve never had much luck getting any interest from clientele in any companies various initiatives/parties/etc, so I tend to not pay them much attention.” while Kyle McCormick of Wyoming’s Gryphon Games & Comics won’t be participating because “our guys just don’t seem that enthused about the story.” Wasn't this just as true for Civil War 2? >There seems to be some misconception about what the Hydra takeover is, and how Marvel are coordinating with retailers. Everyone I spoke to said that they haven’t heard from Marvel directly about the marketing initiative, but there are promotional items that have been available to them for several months. Is it even a real promotional drive? They call it a marketing takeover in the article but it seems more like an opt-in thing entirely.
The level of actual investigation here is really weak. It's a survey of voices but that guy talking about how only one of his customers orders Captain America: Steve Rogers. Is he actually worried about losing customers because of SE or does he just not sell much Cap? How much did he sell before Civil War II? How much after?
Daniel Garcia
you realize Hydra are still the bad guys in Secret Empire even though Steve is one of them, right?
Logan Jackson
>the quality of Marvel's communication and the opportunities Marvel gives them
Henry Sanders
Yes, and?
Aiden Morris
they're not doing it to piss off the SJWs, everyone is just misinterpreting it, apparently
Hunter Long
Legitimately: what did you mean by this? I genuinely can't interpret your post as it comments on mine, so please explain or neck yourself.
Once the outrage motor starts running...
Jose Morales
They're following the twitter shitstorm that followed the Cap reveal.
They know Cap being Hydra pisses them off.
Isaac Russell
I'm actually surprised Sup Forums isn't more up-in-arms about this, they've rewritten the white blonde-haired blue-eyed ubermensch moral center of the Marvel universe to be an outright villain with Nazi undertones in order to make way for a black successor.
Aiden Peterson
>Legitimately: what did you mean by this? That you're a shill, simply. >Marvel is doing fine again!
Jacob Mitchell
Can't tell if new or just reddit.
Michael Wright
so are you saying he's not a villain or there are no Nazi undertones?
or making the ludicrous assertion that Steve will still be Captain America after this?
Hudson Thomas
This one is the edited version anyway, isn't it? Give them the other one, the writing is better.
Henry James
Damn. After all the Trump shit I seriously don't know if people who misinterpret Sup Forums like that are new, SJW or just r/the_donald
Angel Foster
It's much more likely you'll see a reset, because everything in comics inevitably resets. Cap will be undone by Sam and/or Bucky and/or others and in a year or two Steve will be Captain America again.
That's... not what I said senpai. Apparently you can't even read. I said Marvel was bad at communication with retailers, which meant retailers had a major problem with Marvel. I think that a good portion of the comments quoted in the linked article are about that over the specific content of HydraCap.
There was a tweet I kind of agreed with on the whole thing: >Yr entitled 2 have a comic book written by someone who isn't a Nazi sympathizer (you have that) Yr not entitled to a well-written comic book
Like... you have people genuinely thinking Nick Spencer is a secret actual Nazi right now? That's not a weird meta joke, that's genuine nutjobs ranting the fuck out.
Liam Gomez
He never admits anything wrong, ever. He either doubles down, or pulls the "acktually, I was right because of one detail." See the "doom patrol is on indefinite hiatus" stuff that he tried to pull last month as an example.
Luis Brooks
Did you read the fucking comic?
Samuel James
...someone should send CBR the leaked FCBD preview which they've already reported on?
Josiah Williams
yes
there are zero arguments for Steve still being a hero. And despite Spencer's protestations, there's still some mad Nazi undertones to Hydra as a whole.
Anthony Moore
>"acktually, I was right because of one detail." Very like Nick Spencer in that respect.
Honestly, I think if anyone else was writing HydraCap I think you'd see 1/10th the controversy. Nick Spencer is just such an uncontrollable asshole on social media.
Adam Fisher
Why send them a fake if they already reported the real one?
James Butler
>And despite Spencer's protestations, there's still some mad Nazi undertones to Hydra as a whole. Right, but HYDRA are the villains. Nobody cares if the villains are Nazis.
Jeremiah Ramirez
so Steve is a Nazi then
Gavin Ortiz
What I noticed is that the retailers that the guy on CBR interviewed aren't the same ones that usually report to Rich for the BC Bestseller list. So not only does that increase the sample size, but it seems to imply that the average reception toward SE seems to be lukewarm. Last week's Bestseller list had some people saying that Secret Empire #0 sold decently for them but with some caveats like how it was still being outsold by Batman, or how it's nowhere near the levels of what a Marvel event used to sell.
It'll still chart high based on how #0 was included in that Funko subscription box, though.
Jordan Barnes
Can you imagine being the sort of retard who gets their panties in a twist because of a dumb twist in fucking comic books? Are these people so incapable of separating reality from fiction that they are afraid of a goddamned comic book event that'll all be reset at the end of the year anyway? Have none of them read a comic book before? but muh nazis! but muh joos! Jesus fucking christ who cares?
Ian Powell
>out of two hundred customers with pull lists, only one of them orders “Captain America: Steve Rogers" Why did Secret Empire 0 only lose to Batman and Superman last week then?
Julian Edwards
Sure, or at least has "mad Nazi undertones" as you say. I'm not one of the folks who spasms when you say that. Are you?
Gavin Anderson
because clearly that one store is not sufficient to make a generalization about the entire country
Alexander Phillips
>So not only does that increase the sample size, but it seems to imply that the average reception toward SE seems to be lukewarm. Sure, my point is just: wasn't the reaction to Civil War 2 also lukewarm? Hell, wasn't the reaction to Secret Wars 2 pretty lukewarm when the delays started kicking in? That whole "reboot of the universe starts in the middle of the event rebooting it" was some of the biggest clusterfucking I've ever seen from the Big Two.
DC has been putting in a lead on Marvel books since Rebirth kicked off. Is it a surprise Batman sells more than SE #0? Do we really think that's *only* because of the content of SE?
Because you don't understand how this market works. One store is not anything. Ten stores is barely anything, which is why the BC retailer chart is so fucking stupid when people take it as gospel.
Christopher Hall
send Rich the Leech a fake scoop. This tool will run with it. I've had a few of my fake scoops posted by him on his little blog. He never backed down when the facts caem out either. He knows he's just a douche looking for click
Josiah Cox
>Can you imagine being the sort of retard who gets their panties in a twist because of a dumb twist in fucking comic books? Like this entire board?
Xavier Anderson
Secret Wars and Civil War 2 both sold great for the first few months before delays hit and the stories just got stupider
Secret Empire might be DOA
Charles Richardson
Because it's one store. But taking the CBR article with the Bleeding Cool Bestseller list and the Comixology sales charts, you can conclude that paying customers were more interested in Batman and Superman than Secret Empire, even though Secret Empire might've had more retailer orders (and Funko orders) than Batman and Superman.
If the CBR article had retailers merely divided then that means the book might be having a decent reception and you could ignore the one retailer who only has one preorder for Cap. But the general feeling seems to be mixed to negative.
Gabriel Morales
I literally don't understand why this is a big deal. Its hardly the first time a hero has been brainwashed, even if this one is a slightly meta in universe retcon. >b-but hydra are nazis! Okay? And they're gonna lose and cap will either be fine or die and come back in a year or two and be fine.
Parker Martin
This is what happens when you go too deep in the SJW nest.
Cooper Davis
>Gareth Hoskins of Virginia’s Victory Comics said his customers’ dissatisfaction with Marvel and “Secret Empire” began with the previous Marvel Comics summer event. “With ‘Civil War II,’ we began bleeding Marvel subscribers, because that event was a hot mess. Now we have ‘Secret Empire,’ and our customers are verbally angry with Marvel.” He noted that the general feeling in his store is that customers want it to hurry up and finish so they can enjoy Captain America comics again, a statement echoed by other retailers I spoke with.
Curse you, colored people ruining Marvel sales!
Robert Gray
It's mainly a big deal in the sense that Marvel tried to push away its old readers in favor of potential new readers and only ended up pissing off their potential new readers instead.
Lucas Edwards
I really wish that Diamond didn't count Crates/Funkos numbers
Anthony Perry
Normies and casuals who only know the movies are really fucking slow. Couple this with how reactionary social media tends to make people when they view everything through a filter.
Comic book geeks are used to the "NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME AGAIN!!!" gimmick. People who so much as scoff at the mention of the words "comic book" aren't.
Jason Ward
Thank god Captain America is taking a stand against Captain America. Along with Rocket the Werewolf.
they just don't enjoy the direction the story is going in right now, and I don't blame them. Steve finally comes back as Cap after years out of commission and he's instantly made a villain.
AND it's entirely possible that all the flags for Steve dying/giving up the mantle AGAIN is turning people off. He came back as Cap, what, a year ago? He's been dipping in and out of commission almost every other year for TEN YEARS at this point. It's ridiculous.
people can understand that it's temporary and still not like it. The fact that it's obviously temporary gives them even less reason to read it.
Jordan Stewart
The sales on Hickman's Secret Wars dropped, but it was still at a high level:
Civil War II's sales were also "decent" but not as good as Secret Wars'.
05/16 Civil War II #0 - 189,829 06/16 Civil War II #1 - 391,526 (+106.3%) 06/16 Civil War II #2 - 148,403 (- 62.1%) 07/16 Civil War II #3 - 185,949 (+ 25.3%) 07/16 Civil War II #4 - 126,865 (- 31.8%) 08/16 --- 09/16 Civil War II #5 - 120,208 (- 5.2%) 10/16 Civil War II #6 - 118,625 (- 1.3%) 11/16 Civil War II #7 - 116,447 (- 1.8%) 12/16 Civil War II #8 - 105,568 (- 9.3%)
On top of that it sounded like Civil War II may have hindered sales on the other books so whatever gains it got in sales might've been offset by losses on other titles.
Kevin Parker
>-62% >-25% >-31% kek
Lucas Myers
They must be holding the Panel in a Janitor's closet.
Noah Martinez
At least they wouldn't have to pay to use it then.
Mason Rogers
It's +25%, and that was because they teased "A MAJOR CHARACTER WILL DIE" for that issue, which turned out to be Banner. They even spoiled it in the mainstream media, which shows you how much attention they really wanted.
After all that hype they placed on it, it didn't sell. At least, not in the way Death of Cap or stuff like that did.
Samuel Brown
Sam decided he could do more good as Falcon because the public saw his every move as Captain America as even more political than they already were. He's not going to be Cap after SE.
Easton Brooks
so is there just not going to be a Cap after SE, I wonder? Or will they double down again and give the shield to Zemo
Brayden Martin
Citizen V is a sellout and becomes Citizen H?
Colton White
>you have people genuinely thinking Nick Spencer is a secret actual Nazi right now? No, they think he's an open, sieg heiling, goose-stepping-in-the-streets actual Nazi now
Henry Adams
Underrated
Jordan Lopez
Wtf don't you drag my USAvengers into this
If this were written by someone else I'd say Kobik is going to wipe the slate clean at the end of the event, but Spencer doesn't strike me as someone who will take the obvious way out. My guess is there's not going to be a proper Captain America book going for a bit and Steve will be trying to redeem himself as Nomad.
But who knows, maybe USAgent or Bucky will take the role again. The new relaunch is supposed to be about honoring Marvel's legacy, after all.
Liam Hernandez
Wrong.
There are already solicits of Sam as Cap after SE.
Jacob Cook
You live by the fee fees, you die by the fee fees.
Ryan Bailey
>Implying there won't be a merger and USAvengers will be consumed into a larger America Corp consisting of all the Captain Americas and related characters.
Anthony Reyes
considering we're only solicited out to July, when SE is still going on, I think you're making things up.
Ethan Murphy
>considering we're only solicited out to July, when SE is still going on You're right. It's even worse, he's getting the shield back while the event is still going.
Noah Butler
When my lcs owner handed me the secret empire preview he called it propeganda
Hudson Wright
Hey man, as long as Ewing's still writing...
Lucas Flores
>he wants to waste ewing in literally who: the book Hang yourself.
Kevin Turner
We'll probably run without a Captain America for a little while and they'll use Nomad and the new Patriot they're teasing.
Ideal outcome: >John Walker becomes the new Captain America again >gets stuck with Mexi-Falcon as his sidekick >at the end of the series John sneaks into Mexico so he can make it more like America
Lucas Baker
isn't that every Ewing book though
Isaiah Garcia
I've never been to my LCS because pirating neet. Maybe I should go into it dressed up as a Hydra grunt and yell out "Hail Hydra!"
Jayden Brown
>implying Roya- Damn, you're right.
Camden Lewis
These people are the biggest babies I've ever seen
Landon Ramirez
Can Slott be thrown in the mix?
Robert Barnes
Slott writes one of Marvel's best-selling books. Though I suppose these days it would be least-worst-selling.