Do women actually like WW?

I always find her too serious,boring, too violent. It´s obvious without googling that a pervy man created her. With female heroes like Kamala Khan or Sailor Moon you can tell from issue one that a woman wrote the words they are saying.

>It´s obvious without googling that a pervy man created her.
You're just fucking with us, aren't you? You know exactly who created her and why.

I'm a woman and I like Diana.

Just think Superman in regards to men. He is one big power fantasy to admire. Wonder Woman, when we consider the subtext Marston was going for was not just to draw his fetish, but have a woman who would liberate herself on her own. She's an empowering character much like Superman.

However, today's folks prefer having characters they can relate to, over characters they admire. This is why Superman and Wonder Woman are at their best when they are written as humanistic.

no one likes WW just like no one likes DC in general

and June 2nd will prove it

my mom is apeshit about WW

I shouldve gotten her something WW related for mothersday. . .

>created by a pervy man

oh you simple ignorant child.

>William Moulton Marston, a psychologist already famous for inventing the polygraph, struck upon an idea for a new kind of superhero, one who would triumph not with fists or firepower, but with love. "Fine," said Elizabeth (his wife). "But make her a woman."

all its gonna prove its that WB cant make comic movies

Femanon here. I love Diana.

I want Diana to step on me.

>pervy old man
It's comics femanon, all superheroes are created by pervy old men.

they can't make any other kind either

Don't feel like ranting so just gonna post something fun.

she has theoretical fans who like the concept of her and fans of only single specific runs who REEEEEE with every new writer

She's been around for a very long time so people most like her.

>When Wonder Woman was created in 1941, she was imagined by the Harvard-educated William Moulton Marston specifically to reflect the liberated women of the era and inspire readers of all genders about the role of women in society.
>Strong, powerful, confident and brave, Wonder Woman was created to be a character who saved the day not with violence, but with love and understanding.

>modern big studio can't make good movies
Surely you jest

The only time people REEE'd was when Heinberg/Picoult turned the comic into a Wonder Woman '77 reboot, when JMS made his ungodly pile of feces, when Azzarello took over and when Finch took over.

So only when writers specifically went out of their way to shit upon the character's long history.

Fans didn't even REEEEE when Byrne went full retard with his run.

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Marston was actually friendly with many of the early feminists and there are several writers on the early history of WW who claim those figures had a hand in creating her.

does she have any series where she's just going on fun adventures

>no one likes DC in general
Here's your (you), Marvel-fag.

nice trips
when is Byrne not a retard

Women like her, Feminists don't

there's a reason they get nothing but no-names and has-beens while based Marvel gets all the biggest celebrities

Damn skippy

young women today forget what a feminist icon she was. They just see tits and ass in a comic book and assume

>"HURR DURR STUPID MALE SEX FANTASY"

>while based Marvel gets all the biggest celebrities
Name some that are not currently near death.

They did indeed.

Wonder Woman represents the ideals of the First Wave of feminism in the United States which was still going strong in those days.

She was also a major figure of the Second Wave and "women's lib", being a literal inspiration for Gloria Steinem.

A pervert with an obsession with his fetish.

I hate that this has all been meme'd into being "lol some old cuck who pounded off to bondage xD"

eh more like second wave

>first wave
we want to vote

>second waves
we want jobs and equal pay and sexual freedom

>third wave
kill all the cis het men. safe spaces for everyone else

Picoult was only brought in when Heinberg's delays in handing in scripts handicapped the book's publication schedule. Picoult who was a novelist for womens lit got the ongoing while DC handed Rucka's ideas for Amazons Attack to Pfeifer with the addition of connecting it to Countdown.

So what happened:
1) Rucka and Didio disagee on the post-OYL handling of WW. Didio wanted her to go on the run ala the fugitive Rucka then left.

2) Heinberg coming off from YA gets the job and does a soft reboot with inspiration from the O'Neil Jumpsuit era. But his inability at meeting deadlines causes DC:

3) To go to Picoult and Will Pfifer the new writer for Catwoman to do the AA event.

4) They messed it up and in the mean time the editors offer it to Simone due to her experience with BoP, but editorial severely constrains her and her initial plans of following up on Rucka's run and constrain it to follow closer to Heinberg's ideas.

In other words the entire project was heavily directed from editorial. Ironically JMS probably had the most creative freedom since by then they knew they were going to reboot.

Yes, quite a few of them have at least some degree of fondness for her, depending on how much attention they pay to this kinda things. You would know if you knew any women.

Yesterday I discussed the character's history at length with my mother as I showed her these stories from the Golden Age omni. She grew up in the 60's and 70's so she had seen lots of Wonder Woman in feminist literature, but like many was not really familiar with her comics.

Second wave didn't start till the late 60's, but you're right that many of the ideas that defined it were present decades earlier.

As Morrison elucidated, Marston was entrenched in alternative culture. Everyone knows what that means for the 60's, but when people think of the early 40's it's hard for them to imagine.

What are you, five?

Good post, I wasn't aware of the specifics.

I wonder now if Simone's run wasn't somewhat helped by editorial control, because her final arc was a lot more like Rucka's sword and shield warrior woman interpretation (and clearly cut off short by editorial).

wonder woman was created by a male feminist and you know how twisted they can be.

How I see it: like Superman, lots and lots of people are aware of Wonder Woman and her iconography.

But most people who you ask about will not be able to tell you much about what their character is actually like.

Actually part of her longevity was a business decision. DC kept publishing her in the 60s, even though her book was one of the worst sellers in the line, so they could renew the copyright in their name in 1968. Before that, it was a joint copyright between them and the Marston estate. If they stopped publishing her before 1968, the copyright reverted to Marston's widow.

well Miley Cyrus was the most recent big celebrity hire but I'm sure they'll announce a new one soon

meanwhile here's DC's most recent hire

and your point?

It would be naive to think theres nothing sexual about how wonder woman comes off to the layman.

but to assume she was made for nothing but eye candy by some horny old nerd and that there is no merits to the character, is infinitely more naive

Busiek once clarified this:

In the 60's they kept publishing her because they believed she had the potential for revamps like Flash and Green Lantern had received, same with Batman despite him selling shitty. The Mod revamp proved to be successful but was ruined by none other than Gloria Steinem herself.

In the 80's they were indeed still needing to publish her in order to maintain the rights. George Perez's post-Crisis reboot was being delayed so Busiek wrote a four-issue mini in '86 called Legend of Wonder Woman because they had to publish at least four books with Wonder Woman in the title per year to maintain the rights.

But in the 90's this deal finally expired and DC now owns her full out

I haven't ever read Legend of Wonder Woman but would like to some day. It looks like a fun tribute to Golden Age Wonder Woman.

The fact that all you can talk about is movies instead of cartoons, games, and actual comics shows that Marvel is currently shit.

It just occurred to me that even though I always say I've read every post-Crisis issue, it's technically not true since LoWW came out after Crisis.

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Texanon you are a knowledgeable son of a gun

Kate Beaton kind of sums it up for me

Thanks, I spend way too much time reading ancient articles on the internet

Kate Beaton is the best

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...

Beaton:
>Oh Wonder Woman, I love you, not even secretly. I really do find her fascinating, along with creative and fan based world around her. We just want her to be great, what's wrong with that? Maybe she wants to be great too.

I wonder if she grew up with mid-70's Wonder Woman comics, because her drawing of Diana has the same hairstyle she did at that time.

...

Thanks for the discussion, folks.

Nobody likes Wonder Woman. Some women who grew up during the feminist movement of the 60s might have sympathy for WW as a symbol but they never read a damn comic and watched few or none episodes from her 70s show. For some reason nips do better the pandering to girls and creeps at the same time. I guess it's because woman have been active on the industry since the beginning

is there any stories where she doesn't do anything remotely violent?

Hiketeia.

Yes, but they still like her. They like the way she looks, and that she's a super strong woman, just like they like the way Superman looks and that he's a super strong man. They might know Superman comes from another planet, but that's pretty much it.

>Some women who grew up during the feminist movement of the 60s might have sympathy for WW as a symbol but they never read a damn comic and watched few or none episodes from her 70s show.
Yet the same can be said of Superman and Batman.

Sure, Batman '66 and Superman the Movie were big cultural phenomenons, but so was Wonder Woman '77. Nobody reads comics.

Even in the Golden Age, Marston was required to have at least one fight per issue, as part of National's writing style guides. But he also agreed in order to keep boys interested.

The only one I can think of that she specifically never commits an act of violence as a lead character is Earth One, where Morrison went out of his way to do so.

I think with Wonder Woman it's unrealistic to expect her to be 100% pacifistic, but she should resort to violence as a last option, never be the aggressor and focus on ending any fight and pacifying the enemy as quickly as possible, something I think Simone depicted very well.

In Hiketeia she suplexes Batman.

>It´s obvious without googling that a pervy man created her.
Missed me with that tumblr shit nigga.

I love wonder woman.

I believe the amazonian saying was
>Don’t kill if you can wound, don’t wound if you can subdue, don’t subdue if you can pacify, and don’t raise your hand at all until you’ve first extended

Being Wondy fan is suffering.

Isn't it fun?

Nice historical revision there. The polygraph was invented by John Larson. Marston invented the systolic blood pressure test which was just one componet of the polygraph.

Also, if you're going to quote things then provide a citation you child.

They like the idea of Wonder Woman. Everyone likes the idea of Wondy. The idea of Wonder Woman is great but if they read her books they would see a very inconsistent waifu bitch that writers just make as "Female" Superman, even though there's already a female Superman. Also they love to write her as a Superman's cocksleeve. A shitty character that is there for fetish fuel.

Also Marston was in a Menage a Trois with his wife and one of his students. Not relevant but fucking hot.

The two of them were the main inspiration for Wondy.

>Also they love to write her as a Superman's cocksleeve
The DCEU already fix that, now she's Batman's cocksleeve and everybody loves Batman, right? His Batsemen can pass some of his popularity to Wondie

Have Batman and Wonder Woman ever fucked in any continuity? They get to be at most romantically into each other and that's that.

They're just good friends.

The student actually moved in with them to. That's crazy hot.

>every writer keep pressing the fucking reset button, because they're all want of make the "definitive" wonder woman story
>most writers of other books don't pay any attention to her stories, they just hear warrior princess and go "oh, got it" and proceed to write her as some man hating turbo cunt
>normies just know her as "female Superman"

It's not fair.

Batman and Wonder Woman ain't a thing in the DCEU. They might be eventually, but currently they're just the together until they get the rest of the league.

No. Except in a dream she had about their lives together.

>However, today's folks prefer having characters they can relate to, over characters they admire.
This is universally a good thing. Admirable characters are not interesting. And it's not because values have shifted, it was just a medium too young to understand how to do storytelling properly. Mythology from thousands of years ago understood you need nuance.

Thought so.

I just want a fun mini series where she goes on adventures and solves peoples problems with creativity, mediation and compassion.

what's Oneil's run like? It looks interesting

>that writers just make as "Female" Superman
I disagree. Superman and Wonder Woman are very different, but often misconstrued as similar because they're both nice.

Superman is optimistic and hopeful for a better tomorrow, but sees the necessity of violence to make it happen. He thinks bullies deserve punishment, justice. A classic hero.

Wonder Woman is caring and sees the best in ALL people. She loves unconditionally. Bad guys are just misguided and need help as much as the defenseless do, not punishment.

However something Perez really wanted to push with the character in his version, and something that was pushed with Superman at the same time, is that though they represent these noble beliefs, they are human and thus flawed, and can be overcome by anger, frustration, grief, jealousy, and any other human emotion.

Nope, you are a dumb shit who needs to do some reading

Blame DC editorial. The lack of good editors basically resulted in the current mess. You either have shit writers who don't know anything about the character being controlled by editors more interested in sales figures than the actual story (Picoult and Finches). Good writers who are been stifled by these shit editors (Simone). Or very strong writers who do whatever they want without regard for anyone else (Rucka, Azzarello, Byrne). The only time you had a decent editorialship was probably during Perez's era when Karen Berger oversaw the book.

Depowered Jumpsuit WW with blind chinese sensei having adventures.

Don't forget that wonder woman is a magical being, while Superman is a meta human.

Perez also pushed the idea that Wonder Woman thought of herself as superior to humans and that she was attracted to Superman because she thought he was like an Olympian God and thus someone she can relate with. Of course after they date Superman proved to be too humble and meek for her taste.

I remember them kissing after Blackest Night. But nothing further than that.

Among Wonder Woman fans it was long considered a curiosity and gained a kind of notoriety for its weirdness, but recently it's being rediscovered as a real gem of her history.

If you've watched the '70's show, I'd say it's similar to that, but without the intentional camp, or like 70's Bond. Globetrotting adventures with kung-fu and absolute madman villains, and lots of disposable love interests and plot twists.

I mean, at the end of the day it's not really Wonder Woman in a lot of ways, but it's well written and ultimately had a positive change on the character's late-70's comics, which was something I wanted to demonstrate with this story

What unbiased and accurate historical information

That's an important element to remember but also easy to misuse, like Byrne did. Byrne used her as a vessel to tell all these stories with the New Gods and the Demon and push his Godwave/Genesis horseshit.

And then Eric Luke and Walt Simonson (I love you Simonson, but not your Wonder Woman) were too focused on the mythological aspect and missed the forest for the trees, IMO.

In DC Universe Online, she was used to represent the magical side of the DCU... which had her being wrapped up in the plots of Zatanna and Raven and Trigon and all that stuff that she has nothing to do with. Like, yeah, she's experienced with Circe and gods, but wtf does she know about magic spells and demonology and the Fae and Lords of Order and all that shit? And prior to Byrne's run she only met any of the New Gods once, and that was Darkseid in something Byrne himself wrote.

> storytimed that comic

Women don't care about comic book characters

what comic is that?

Blast by Manu Larcenet

How do you feel that comic is where most people's idea of Wonder Woman is rooted in? A person that no one actually cares about, but uses to look feminist.

Usagi is 14 DELETE THIS

Love you, user. I'd been searching for the name since some time now.

>Azarello Wondie
>bad